Magsorc ridiculously OP

Derra · August 2017

Irylia wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Killing shield stacking builds is the gateway to becoming a good pvp'er, they require you to monitor your resources, drain their resources, maintain pressure, and time burst.

Stacking hardened + harness (i morphed it just so i could make this point) costs me 6156 magica.
Harness returns 5895 magica.
You need 261 magica regeneration (that stat in your character sheet) to stack shields for infinite amounts of time against a magica build with these stats.
I think the lowest rec a maxlevel char can get is ~800.

This is on a build with 4 necro 5 amber 2x maxmagica (22k hp 48kmaxmag 16k stam 1.1k stamrec 1.8k magrec) putting you at ~48k. You can build to get up to around ~52k magica without sacrificing too much (hint: at that point stacking shields gains you magica).

It´s literally impossible to run a shieldstacker out of magica when using magica based attacks.

Show me the experienced pvp player that´s telling me shieldstacking isn´t overperforming with a face not looking like this:

If I'm not mistaken harness has the ability to return magicka 3 times. 3 separate instances for 3 individual magicka attacks.
Harness is 7-10k from low to high size scale and a dk can whip once and pull it off and even if a 1-3k ward remains you aren't going to let that sit but instead will recast it perhaps before the full 3 tick returns are given.

Vs plar and dk you do have the saving grace of dots which can proc the mag return but over time from shieldstacking, unless done perfectly, your magicka will dip down and require pots heavy attacks or dark conversion.

Vs more than 1 enemy harness will not suffice as the sustain tool you want it to be because Stam classes will remove it and not recover mag for you.
Dark conversion is just way more reliable and then just recast hard ward as it is larger and costs less. Run a bit more into Stam gen and your ability to sprint break free dodge block and dark conversion will greatly increase.

@Irylia harness returns (atleast it did the last time i ran it) it´s magica also when hardened ward gets hit. Basically any dot triggers it aswell meaning entropy + lightattack + frag will give you full return even if you break it in the process.

If you´re playing smart with harness and also have mines harness means huge magica gain (vs templar and dk) as you can doublecast harness in enemy rebuff phases for more magica return.

Basically the only magica setup where harness is not guaranteed to return it´s full value is vs other sorcs that run surge over entropy and even in that case you will atleast cover the cost of harness as i´ve not met a player that could break 9.5k shield in one attack without lightattacking.

Not arguing for or against dark deal. I personally rather not use barspace for a situational skill.

Also i´m not using harness nor am i having issues sustaining *shrug*. I just hate it when you get chased by 3+ people and in the end when their friends are dead an otherwise absolutely inept sorc jumps back to their resource/keep/outpost while casting harness + hardened.

BohnT · August 2017

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

The best thing I can think of is to remove shield stacking of hardened ward and harness magicka.
Now there is the next shield healing ward.
Don't let it fully stack either, make it that your maximum amount of healing ward you can get while using hardened ward is a percentage of hardened ward meaning at 100% live you only get a 10% higher shield which consists of
100% of the healing ward strength and the missing x% of the hardened ward

At 50% health it's increased to 20% of your hardened ward tooltip and below 30% health it is increased to 50% of your hardened ward tooltip.

With these changes its still good to stack max magicka builds but not making it as strong as it is now and you can still protect the healing ward shield.

You can´t just take away healing ward.
You´re only figuring in the shield - healing ward is also sorcs main heal if they don´t slot twilight. So unless you were to change sorcs selfhealing capabilities drastically you can´t touch healing ward without making the class a sitting duck against any experienced player.

That's why I said that you'll always get 100% of your healing ward strength but your maximum shieldstrength is determined by your health and your hardened ward tooltip.

Let's say you have a 14k hardened ward.
And are at 50% live and you cast healing ward.
Your maximum achievable shield strength is increased to 16.8k (with the changes is proposed above).
The 16.8k shield consist of the whole healing ward strength and the missing shield is filled with hardened ward.

This gives you the full effect of healing ward and the ability to protect it with hardened ward but makes the sorc more vulnerable.
Right now even if you can burst a sorc to 15% health he'll just use healing ward + Harness magicka + hardened ward making him immortal.
Healing ward is too strong imo, it's just a unbalanced skill that gives way too much healing and shield when in a pinch.

IAVITNI · August 2017

alext89 wrote: »

If u are in medium armor. Or light armor, and not a shieldstacker too. Then its pretty Much over for u.

These tools whit the movility and survivalbility seems in my eyes too Much. Not to mention how u Can run a low regn build. Whit Dark Exchange and lich. And focus on High Damage stats.

I cant really see the downsides of a sorc. Other than shield stacking is borring.

I Think People complain is bc u dont have to be that good a player, to kick ass on a sorc,. If your build do not counter specific Them, But maybe more all arround. Then most sorc u meet, Can be pretty dangours.

For other classes. Meeting an avarage player, i Think there are bigger Windows for having your buffs up, or counter Them. The burst stacking isnt as Big, u Can fight your Way out of execute zone and your own burst Windows seem to succes more. Since u dont have to destroy or wait for 2 shield to disapear.

Well, medium armor is trash rn and a light armor build with no shields is gonna get stomped, even with riposte so this is more a balance/L2P issue than sorc issue.

Dark Exchange + Lich is in no way a low regen build. Thats a balanced build, which most solo/small scale pvp players will run. Meta on PS4 is amber plasm + will power. no different from Bone Pirate + Agility which many stam characters run, except that Dark Exchange performs extremely way against people who don't know how to counter it (plasm + dark exchange is OP to be fair). Lich offers 1max magicka stat and Dark Exchange requires some investment to stamina recovery or increased vulnerability to cc.

The average sorc I meet is trash. However, the average pvp player I meet is trash.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Streak should have its cost increase removed. The sorcs is already gone by the time it does anything. In my opinion mobility and range via streak and mines should be magsorcs defence. Leave face tanking to heavier specs.

It shouldn't work in roots. Also give melee classes a way to reach sorcs who streaked up a rock.

I would love for streak increase cost to go. Than it be more than fair to remove shield stacking of Harness+Harden (still need to be able to stack healing ward).

Qbiken wrote: »

The only issue I have with sorc is that they can streak away while being rooted (Talons). Doesn´t make sense to me...

Streak kind of needs to go through roots. On console, root is overpowered as it ruins your targeting. Kiting around a person cancels skills. I know because it happens when I'm rooted and I use it in 1v1 duels by using Thundering Presence to constantly stay behind my opponent. Especially vs a mDK, Streak is the only way I can effectively fight the DK.

If the DK uses Petrify and "LoS" me, all I can do is shield stack or Break Free + Dodge Roll, which will drain my stam in 2 rotations.

Streak working in roots also makes sense thematically. The Sorc isn't sprinting to a new location like Crit Rush or Toppling Charge. The Sorc is using magic to propel them selves forward in a similar manner that NightBlades use magic to Ambush their enemies instantaneously or to magically blink to their shade.

If you take away Streaking while Rooted from Sorcs they will literally have 0 counter play vs mDK on console.

Derra · August 2017

BohnT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

The best thing I can think of is to remove shield stacking of hardened ward and harness magicka.
Now there is the next shield healing ward.
Don't let it fully stack either, make it that your maximum amount of healing ward you can get while using hardened ward is a percentage of hardened ward meaning at 100% live you only get a 10% higher shield which consists of
100% of the healing ward strength and the missing x% of the hardened ward

At 50% health it's increased to 20% of your hardened ward tooltip and below 30% health it is increased to 50% of your hardened ward tooltip.

With these changes its still good to stack max magicka builds but not making it as strong as it is now and you can still protect the healing ward shield.

You can´t just take away healing ward.
You´re only figuring in the shield - healing ward is also sorcs main heal if they don´t slot twilight. So unless you were to change sorcs selfhealing capabilities drastically you can´t touch healing ward without making the class a sitting duck against any experienced player.

That's why I said that you'll always get 100% of your healing ward strength but your maximum shieldstrength is determined by your health and your hardened ward tooltip.

Let's say you have a 14k hardened ward.
And are at 50% live and you cast healing ward.
Your maximum achievable shield strength is increased to 16.8k (with the changes is proposed above).
The 16.8k shield consist of the whole healing ward strength and the missing shield is filled with hardened ward.

This gives you the full effect of healing ward and the ability to protect it with hardened ward but makes the sorc more vulnerable.
Right now even if you can burst a sorc to 15% health he'll just use healing ward + Harness magicka + hardened ward making him immortal.
Healing ward is too strong imo, it's just a unbalanced skill that gives way too much healing and shield when in a pinch.

Healing ward is effectively the only heal sorc gets. You need to cover it with hardened to even have the chance of getting a heal from it.

It works on classes that have strong passive healing/hots - but on sorc if you´re not able to cover your healing ward you will never see a heal from it.

Personally i´d go for sth like shield duration on HW only 3s but shieldsize increase only 200% - it would become a better heal while being less unbreakable on low health.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

@CyrusArya @Joy_Division

The 10-20% is an estimate based on my theories of what makes sorcs OP, which I state as a theory in my original post and say that we can't measure unless we had access to ZOS's internal numbers. To be fair, based on comments made on ESO Live about class balance, they seem aware that sorcs over perform in pvp. Their discussion about that insinuated that they were concerned that needing sorcs in pvp would hurt them in pve where they're better balanced, and also that they don't want to make changes that hurt the bottom 80% of players just to fix the 20% who take advantage of the situation.

A hard number of how over powered they are in pvp would be difficult to quantify scientifically...there are too many factors in play. However, one method of proving my case might be diving into a specific skill and questioning that math, which is easier to quantify.

For example, Dark Conversion. For stats I will use Alcast's latest Wrath build, found at Alcasthq.com, so we can all look at the same numbers. The build features ~43k max magic and ~13k max stam. 2800 mag recovery and 750 for stam. Dark Con costs 2400 stam and returns 8,000 health and 4600 magic.

If we presume a 30 second battle, the sorcs stam recovery would produce 750 every 2 seconds, or 11,250 added to their bank of 13k. Therefore, they can pretty easily cast Dark Con as part of a 5 second rotation. Six procs in 30 seconds cost 15k stam. They don't need the stam for dodging or blocking since the shields take care of that, but they have a healthy reserve regardless.

These six procs produce 27,600 magic and 48k health. So this produces pertinent questions:

1. How do similar abilities compare? If we consider resource returning mechanisms, I can't think of anything in the game that is this strong. Potions return 8k/8k every 45 seconds. Proc sets that return magic or stam are capped at like 9k once per minute. I know the peanut gallery will chime in with reasons why Dark Con isn't endlessly powerful...and it isn't. It's simply more powerful than other abilities that return a fighting resource.

(And, btw, @ZOS_GinaBruno - ask Eric Wroebel if Dark Con is so fair, why can't nightblades get an ability that costs 2400 magic in exchange for 8k health and 4.5k stamina, instead of the stupid leeching strikes mechanism).

2. Why is this problematic? Dark Con isn't a problem on its own. The problem arises when we consider what it enables. It's this massive return of magic that allows sorcs to maintain one or two very strong shields. The meta rotation involves throwing up shields that wipe out incoming attacks, then dark Con to restore that magic and heal anything that gets through.

I think the bottom line is that update 14 brought this concept of resource scarcity into the game that reduced the tankiness of everyone. EXCEPT SORCS. Lol. If you read the dev notes, Vigor had this snide little comment, "we felt it was too powerful to make it easy to keep up all the time." Yeah...the 3k stam cost ability returning 10k health over 5 seconds was too powerful, but not the many, many mechanisms sorcs have to return magic and stack defense.

We can agree to disagree, but objectively, scientifically and rationally you're both totally wrong.

I still don't think that the 10/20% makes sense. At all, so throwing that around is fake news.

If shields are taken care of, sorcs are more in line. Anyone who plays BGs or noCP can see the lack of spammable 30k defences with no counter, really helps.

A few things I'd change otherwise that wouldn't break the class is that streak shouldn't go though roots, and interrupting conversion should take away the resources. I feel like these two lack early counters. (The late counters: Being resource heavy don't actually kick in until its too late.)

Spammable 30k defences with no counter is kind of fake news too.

In Cp campaign.

Is the shield spammable. Yes.

So is every other skill in the game, until you run out of resources.

Does it have solid counters. No.

Damage is the counter to shields, just as damage is the counter to high health.

Can it.be 30k? Yep.

Afraid this is where we run into a roadblock, @Biro123
You can manage a 30k, battlespirited hardened ward (Sorc's only shield)in CP if you do two of three things:
Max out Bastion. Yep, that's 100 points in to get a 25% boost.

Stack Magicka to 134,000. You read it right one hundred and thirty four thousand.

Become completely out of touch or delusional.

The only real counter is oblivion damage... Which always deals same damage. Nothing like a shield cost increase, shield defile, shield regen stop, etc.

That is the only reason I would consider "OP. " other things are just slightly silly mechanics. The burst+mobility is good.

It's the same arguments with the same lack of proof.

You're not getting outclassed. You're getting outplayed.

Wow you are ignorant and cocky aren't you, or should I say out of touch and delusional. I never said only hardened ward. You can reach 30k with stacking very easily.

I am not comparing shields to other skills, I am comparing them to other defenses. No, not every other defense is as mindlessly spammable as shields are. Heals often do less at high health, obviously can't go above your own health so less reason to spam, and can be defiled to make them less effective. Blocking, sprinting, mist and rolling stops regen, streak/roll have cost increases. Cloak doesn't, but you can't pull someone out of a shield can you?

"Damage is the counter to shields" that might be the most idiotic statement I have ever seen. Last I checked its hard to burn 30k of shields before someone reups. OK, so to counter tanks, just damage them, exploiters? Damage them? Zergs? Damage them. Shield breaker is probably the only actual (specific for shields) counter, but in other circumstances its useless. A shield defile, or a maj/min system is necessary.

None of the above, actually. And sorry for the delay. Normally when I'm calling "***" on something I try to watch the thread a little closer

ak_pvp wrote: »

ftr, I never said hardened ward only. 30K is pretty easily achieved and decently sustainable even at high health with Necro+amber (Necro nerf may have slightly changed this,) People using pets to keep the heat off a little and dark convert a little when low.

Except you did, by your choice of whining wording. More accurately, you implied it. And if you really want to back up your opinion, accuracy is important.

Can it.be 30k? Yep.

The reason I bolded the fact that Hardened is the only Sorc shield, is because...wait for it...Hardended is the only Sorc shield. Shield stacking is also much less effective unless you're stacking magicka like crazy, which is also not a Sorc exclusive thing.

Harness is available to anyone that stacks magicka. If you're going to whine about a class, make sure you only include class specific items. Since your facts are "10%-20%" unfounded, I figured I'd help and show the math it would take for what you poorly proclaimed to actually happen.

As has been pointed out by numerous individuals, many of which are far better at PvP than I, if you're shielding, you're not dealing damage.

If you want to *** about shield stacking, fine. If you want to complain about stat stacking, also fine. The problem remains that most of your complaints have to do with very specific builds and very little to do with a specific class.

Bkella · August 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

This won´t end well, brace yourself for:
* the hatestorm from magsorcs claiming their class is weak from all the "nerfs"
* L2P arguments
* Any X amount good players can kill a magsorc
* Arguments from people maining sorc that it´s a balanced class in PvP on all aspects

I don´t like sorc either in PvP and think the Shields need to be toned down a bit (not sure how it would be implented without killing the class too much).....But I know that if I spend more time in Cyrodil I might be able to learn how to counter them better.

Hits the nail on the head. No real PvPer comes in here complaining about Sorcs lol spend more time in Cyrodiil and learn how to counter them. Newb PvPers fall into experienced PvPer traps and then they think the class is OP because they get worked. I will say its the first time I've ever heard someone say haunting curse is an A+ skill, I will see. I don't agree. But mag sorc is the only class without a spammable DPS skill or multiple for that fact or a cheap PvP ultimate that isnt stationary. Love the post tho, keep the salt flowing.

Waffennacht · August 2017

@Derra if Harness is returning mag while Hardened is being hit, that's an old bug that supposedly was fixed

Apherius · August 2017

Derra wrote: »

Zendran wrote: »

Once you know how to fight them, it's not really a problem even accounting for harness sustain vs. your magicka skills.

That is until you meet that sorc that enjoys having 30 minute duels standing in mines and attronarch stacking shields until you fall asleep.

That said - i have pretty solid stats vs sorc on my magblade aswell. In general dying to sorcs is really hard if you understand the class.

ask a vampire guildemate to bite you
Become vampire
unlock mist form

Congratulation ! now you can use Mist form and destroy all their daedric mine one by one ... then do it again and again until he become OOM , daedric mines cost 6K magicka ... and don't throw me any math at the face saying that they can spam them because X or Y .. i don't care.

Vandark · August 2017

Sorcs have best Dmg, best AOE, are fastest class, have best sustain....but sure....sorcs are good atm. Just rerolled to my Sorc and now its okay!!

Nerf Sorcs! Its need for longer than one year

Waffennacht · August 2017

p-biggipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs have best Dmg, best AOE, are fastest class, have best sustain....but sure....sorcs are good atm. Just rerolled to my Sorc and now its okay!!

Nerf Sorcs! Its need for longer than one year

Too bad Wardens are better

thankyourat · August 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

p-biggipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs have best Dmg, best AOE, are fastest class, have best sustain....but sure....sorcs are good atm. Just rerolled to my Sorc and now its okay!!

Nerf Sorcs! Its need for longer than one year

Too bad Wardens are better

Warden trees are op, i wouldn't say they are better than sorcs though. I haven't lost to a single warden since the class came out they just don't really have any killing potential. I've fought one that had the thickness harness magicka I've ever seen though.

Waffennacht · August 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

p-biggipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs have best Dmg, best AOE, are fastest class, have best sustain....but sure....sorcs are good atm. Just rerolled to my Sorc and now its okay!!

Nerf Sorcs! Its need for longer than one year

Too bad Wardens are better

Warden trees are op, i wouldn't say they are better than sorcs though. I haven't lost to a single warden since the class came out they just don't really have any killing potential. I've fought one that had the thickness harness magicka I've ever seen though.

Check out my guide. Seriously. It's better than any sorc

thankyourat · August 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

p-biggipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs have best Dmg, best AOE, are fastest class, have best sustain....but sure....sorcs are good atm. Just rerolled to my Sorc and now its okay!!

Nerf Sorcs! Its need for longer than one year

Too bad Wardens are better

Warden trees are op, i wouldn't say they are better than sorcs though. I haven't lost to a single warden since the class came out they just don't really have any killing potential. I've fought one that had the thickness harness magicka I've ever seen though.

Check out my guide. Seriously. It's better than any sorc

Where's your guide located? I'll take a look. I really don't see anything special with warden beside it being crazy tanky. They don't have a cc. They don't really have any mobility. It sends like the only way to kill someone is for them to be completely unaware of what's going on a take a cc from a wardens delayed cc and allow a meteor to hit them

Waffennacht · August 2017

Yay! Selfish self Promoting! (Teehee)

Shepherd of the Frozen Valley - A Build Guide (Click Me!)

They don't have a CC (not really) but defensive posture or reverb bash can be placed

Derra · August 2017

Apherius wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Zendran wrote: »

Once you know how to fight them, it's not really a problem even accounting for harness sustain vs. your magicka skills.

That is until you meet that sorc that enjoys having 30 minute duels standing in mines and attronarch stacking shields until you fall asleep.

That said - i have pretty solid stats vs sorc on my magblade aswell. In general dying to sorcs is really hard if you understand the class.

ask a vampire guildemate to bite you

Become vampire

unlock mist form

Congratulation ! now you can use Mist form and destroy all their mine one by one ... then do it again and again until he become OOM , they cost 6K magicka ... and don't throw me any math at the face saying that they can spam them because X or Y .. i don't care.

Why bother posting things you know yourself are factually incorrect if you don´t care yourself?

Lord-Otto · August 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

p-biggipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs have best Dmg, best AOE, are fastest class, have best sustain....but sure....sorcs are good atm. Just rerolled to my Sorc and now its okay!!

Nerf Sorcs! Its need for longer than one year

Too bad Wardens are better

Warden trees are op, i wouldn't say they are better than sorcs though. I haven't lost to a single warden since the class came out they just don't really have any killing potential. I've fought one that had the thickness harness magicka I've ever seen though.

Check out my guide. Seriously. It's better than any sorc

But is that guide about a lightning-wielding, teleporting, crystal-sniping, Atronach-commanding BAMF from the Summerset Isles?
No?
Then it's not better.
>xP

Waffennacht · August 2017

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

p-biggipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs have best Dmg, best AOE, are fastest class, have best sustain....but sure....sorcs are good atm. Just rerolled to my Sorc and now its okay!!

Nerf Sorcs! Its need for longer than one year

Too bad Wardens are better

Warden trees are op, i wouldn't say they are better than sorcs though. I haven't lost to a single warden since the class came out they just don't really have any killing potential. I've fought one that had the thickness harness magicka I've ever seen though.

Check out my guide. Seriously. It's better than any sorc

But is that guide about a lightning-wielding, teleporting, crystal-sniping, Atronach-commanding BAMF from the Summerset Isles?
No?
Then it's not better.
>xP

He is from the isles... He kinda commands a bird and a baby Netch...

*Sobs*

Apherius · August 2017

p-biggipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs have best Dmg, best AOE, are fastest class, have best sustain....but sure....sorcs are good atm. Just rerolled to my Sorc and now its okay!!

Nerf Sorcs! Its need for longer than one year

Hum

p-biggipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

" quote from " is sorc Op in pvp" " Sorcs have best Dmg, best AOE, are fastest class, have best sustain....but sure....sorcs are good atm. Just rerolled to my Sorc and now its okay!!

Nerf Sorcs! Its need for longer than one year

Huuuummmm..

p-biggipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Its so funny how all these sorc users come and say "l2p"

Sorcs have best burst dmg, best AOE dmg, are the fastest class, best sustain simply....OP.

Just Nerf this ***. Its not funny anymore. I will keep pushing Nerf Sorc threads until they got nerfed finally. Cause this would be fair to other classes

Huuuuuuuuuummmmmm ... very very inter... no sorry i don't see , can you copy past it one more time ?

Lord-Otto · August 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

p-biggipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs have best Dmg, best AOE, are fastest class, have best sustain....but sure....sorcs are good atm. Just rerolled to my Sorc and now its okay!!

Nerf Sorcs! Its need for longer than one year

Too bad Wardens are better

Warden trees are op, i wouldn't say they are better than sorcs though. I haven't lost to a single warden since the class came out they just don't really have any killing potential. I've fought one that had the thickness harness magicka I've ever seen though.

Check out my guide. Seriously. It's better than any sorc

But is that guide about a lightning-wielding, teleporting, crystal-sniping, Atronach-commanding BAMF from the Summerset Isles?
No?
Then it's not better.
>xP

He is from the isles... He kinda commands a bird and a baby Netch...

*Sobs*

Netches are cute, though.
*pats back*

EnglishTea123 · August 2017

Grab shieldbreaker and spam bow light attacks, and all of a sudden mag sorc is the weakest class. Just sayin' because someone said shield stack isn't the only means of damage mitigation for a light armor mag sorc. Wut.

Malamar1229 · August 2017

Apherius wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Zendran wrote: »

Once you know how to fight them, it's not really a problem even accounting for harness sustain vs. your magicka skills.

That is until you meet that sorc that enjoys having 30 minute duels standing in mines and attronarch stacking shields until you fall asleep.

That said - i have pretty solid stats vs sorc on my magblade aswell. In general dying to sorcs is really hard if you understand the class.

ask a vampire guildemate to bite you

Become vampire

unlock mist form

Congratulation ! now you can use Mist form and destroy all their mine one by one ... then do it again and again until he become OOM , they cost 6K magicka ... and don't throw me any math at the face saying that they can spam them because X or Y .. i don't care.

I forgot mistform was a passive that didnt require a bar slot

Malamar1229 · August 2017

Derra wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Zendran wrote: »

Once you know how to fight them, it's not really a problem even accounting for harness sustain vs. your magicka skills.

That is until you meet that sorc that enjoys having 30 minute duels standing in mines and attronarch stacking shields until you fall asleep.

That said - i have pretty solid stats vs sorc on my magblade aswell. In general dying to sorcs is really hard if you understand the class.

ask a vampire guildemate to bite you

Become vampire

unlock mist form

Congratulation ! now you can use Mist form and destroy all their mine one by one ... then do it again and again until he become OOM , they cost 6K magicka ... and don't throw me any math at the face saying that they can spam them because X or Y .. i don't care.

Why bother posting things you know yourself are factually incorrect if you don´t care yourself?

@Derra if you were a fish you'd have been hooked and in my cooler by now. You shouldn't bother. [snip]

[edit for baiting]

Lexxypwns · August 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

p-biggipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs have best Dmg, best AOE, are fastest class, have best sustain....but sure....sorcs are good atm. Just rerolled to my Sorc and now its okay!!

Nerf Sorcs! Its need for longer than one year

Too bad Wardens are better

Warden trees are op, i wouldn't say they are better than sorcs though. I haven't lost to a single warden since the class came out they just don't really have any killing potential. I've fought one that had the thickness harness magicka I've ever seen though.

Mag sorc is a whole tier below both warden specs. Mag warden is one of the top performing specs and neither sorc cracks top 5

Derra · August 2017

Malamar1229 wrote: »

@Derra if you were a fish you'd have been hooked and in my cooler by now. You shouldn't bother.

So i can´t pvp bc of crippling lag and fps bugs...

I try to forumpvp instead and here you are - my forumequivalent to crippling lag and fps drops

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

p-biggipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs have best Dmg, best AOE, are fastest class, have best sustain....but sure....sorcs are good atm. Just rerolled to my Sorc and now its okay!!

Nerf Sorcs! Its need for longer than one year

Too bad Wardens are better

Warden trees are op, i wouldn't say they are better than sorcs though. I haven't lost to a single warden since the class came out they just don't really have any killing potential. I've fought one that had the thickness harness magicka I've ever seen though.

Mag sorc is a whole tier below both warden specs. Mag warden is one of the top performing specs and neither sorc cracks top 5

It´s kinda interesting how different console and pc play out.
They´re are hardly any to be found on pc. Top performing ones are basically leprechauns riding on unicorns.

[minor edit for quote]

Waffennacht · August 2017

Derra wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Zendran wrote: »

Once you know how to fight them, it's not really a problem even accounting for harness sustain vs. your magicka skills.

That is until you meet that sorc that enjoys having 30 minute duels standing in mines and attronarch stacking shields until you fall asleep.

That said - i have pretty solid stats vs sorc on my magblade aswell. In general dying to sorcs is really hard if you understand the class.

ask a vampire guildemate to bite you

Become vampire

unlock mist form

Congratulation ! now you can use Mist form and destroy all their mine one by one ... then do it again and again until he become OOM , they cost 6K magicka ... and don't throw me any math at the face saying that they can spam them because X or Y .. i don't care.

Why bother posting things you know yourself are factually incorrect if you don´t care yourself?

@Derra if you were a fish you'd have been hooked and in my cooler by now. Dont bother with these 1 star forumtards.

So i can´t pvp bc of crippling lag and fps bugs...

I try to forumpvp instead and here you are - my forumequivalent to crippling lag and fps drops

I just keep re reading this, it's just such well written post

Edit: I'm not being sarcastic (which also sounds sarcastic, but truthfully I'm not! It's an entertaining post!)

thankyourat · August 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

p-biggipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs have best Dmg, best AOE, are fastest class, have best sustain....but sure....sorcs are good atm. Just rerolled to my Sorc and now its okay!!

Nerf Sorcs! Its need for longer than one year

Too bad Wardens are better

Warden trees are op, i wouldn't say they are better than sorcs though. I haven't lost to a single warden since the class came out they just don't really have any killing potential. I've fought one that had the thickness harness magicka I've ever seen though.

Mag sorc is a whole tier below both warden specs. Mag warden is one of the top performing specs and neither sorc cracks top 5

How can a mag warden kill anyone though with no cc. Also for open world magsorc mobility is unmatched by any other mag build besides 2hand magblade which is kind of niche. I look at mag warden the same as i look at templar the lack of crown control can turn both into a healbot fairly quicky in a fight. Deep fissure is just so bad it literally almost never hits me. Where as mag sorc has a ton more burst opportunities and a execute that is honestly op. I would definitely put mag sorc top 5 for dueling (mag dk, magblade, heavy armor bleed stamplar, mag sorc, heavy armor stam dk) and i would place them probably number 2 in group pvp and number 1 in solo pvp. They are definitely a top tier class they are easily countered yes, but so is every class once you are a experienced pvper

Derra · August 2017

I´m fairly interested aswell - even though it´s quite off topic. Why is magwarden supposedly so good?

Takes-No-Prisoner · August 2017

Derra wrote: »

It´s kinda interesting how different console and pc play out.
They´re are hardly any to be found on pc. Top performing ones are basically leprechauns riding on unicorns.

Derra, one of the things to keep in mind about PC vs Console is accessibility. If you have a problem with your build, you are just one alt-tab away from google search. A quick over view of some things you might of missed on another website you may favorite from time to time, then your off and about on your toon with the answer you needed. You find improvement, you get better, cause you have a PC.

Console players do not do this. Those of us who do are few and far in between.

So the number of potatoes we fight are many and numerous. Most never take the time to even ask, let alone seek further information to keep developing their builds...they just run whatever they scrap together.

Waffennacht · August 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

p-biggipreeb18_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs have best Dmg, best AOE, are fastest class, have best sustain....but sure....sorcs are good atm. Just rerolled to my Sorc and now its okay!!

Nerf Sorcs! Its need for longer than one year

Too bad Wardens are better

Warden trees are op, i wouldn't say they are better than sorcs though. I haven't lost to a single warden since the class came out they just don't really have any killing potential. I've fought one that had the thickness harness magicka I've ever seen though.

Mag sorc is a whole tier below both warden specs. Mag warden is one of the top performing specs and neither sorc cracks top 5

How can a mag warden kill anyone though with no cc. Also for open world magsorc mobility is unmatched by any other mag build besides 2hand magblade which is kind of niche. I look at mag warden the same as i look at templar the lack of crown control can turn both into a healbot fairly quicky in a fight. Deep fissure is just so bad it literally almost never hits me. Where as mag sorc has a ton more burst opportunities and a execute that is honestly op. I would definitely put mag sorc top 5 for dueling (mag dk, magblade, heavy armor bleed stamplar, mag sorc, heavy armor stam dk) and i would place them probably number 2 in group pvp and number 1 in solo pvp. They are definitely a top tier class they are easily countered yes, but so is every class once you are a experienced pvper

Deep Fissure doesn't have to land (I am surprised how often it does though)

First thing is not dying to the sorc, which requires either Purging Curse (blue Betty) and/or dealing with Frag (block, Shimmering)

Next is killin the sorc

My pigeon tool tip is 12.7k without Bird O Prey and Pulse is 10.2k add in Infused Oblivion Damage that's a burst of about 13k DMG with no crit every 2/3 secs. Each burst.

If Fissure does land that's an additional 14kish tooltip

Add in a potential N. Storm and you can see how you can drop a Sorc from full to zero in one burst.

If they get low and start hitting Healing Ward, pulse spam + infused Oblivion will win that race.

Apherius · August 2017

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Zendran wrote: »

Once you know how to fight them, it's not really a problem even accounting for harness sustain vs. your magicka skills.

That is until you meet that sorc that enjoys having 30 minute duels standing in mines and attronarch stacking shields until you fall asleep.

That said - i have pretty solid stats vs sorc on my magblade aswell. In general dying to sorcs is really hard if you understand the class.

ask a vampire guildemate to bite you

Become vampire

unlock mist form

Congratulation ! now you can use Mist form and destroy all their mine one by one ... then do it again and again until he become OOM , they cost 6K magicka ... and don't throw me any math at the face saying that they can spam them because X or Y .. i don't care.

I forgot mistform was a passive that didnt require a bar slot

Maybe because this is not a passive ? i'm talking about the vampire skill which reduces the damages taken by 75%