THIS GAME IS HORRIBLE FOR NOOBS, better tutorials that ZOS should implement?

Shadzilla · August 2017

I recently met a 200+ CP player, doing a trade, that had absolutely no idea how to play correctly. I think ZOS should really look at updating the tutorials towards a number of different aspects of the game. For example, this guy had no idea he was able to join 5 guilds, no clue on how to do a dungeon, no clue on what set bonuses were good for his play style nor the ability to craft sets, and has never even heard of a rotation. I will be completely honest, I have not done any tutorials since march of 2014 so maybe this guy was just really slow and some of these tutorials are already in game. Regardless, I would love to see ZOS insert some more tutorials that spend a bit of time going over main aspects of the game for brand new players.

-Guilds, how many you can join and how they work (kiosks, members, permissions, etc)
-Sets, and their bonuses... Give some information on the general way set bonuses work, what works best for melee or ranged, magicka or stamina, tanks or healers. Go over the importance of spell/weapon crit and damage. Let the noob know how there are 3 crafting stations in each zone, perhaps even give a quest to find death's wind and craft a full 5 piece?
-Doing a rotation... Obviously in PVE, everyone that has played for awhile knows how to build their own custom rotations. Noobs don't, like at all. Go over the importance of DOTs in rotations, spammables, resource management. Perhaps have a quest where the noob has temporary access to every class skill and morphs until the end of the tutorial. Go over the general aspect of dropping a bunch of DOTs on a target skeleton while using a spammable during the downtime until it is time to refresh the DOTs again etc.
-Doing a dungeon... Do a decent explanation on how things actually work. Groups usually have 2 dps, 1 healer and 1 tank. Get the noob to pick a role, and go through a few fights with 3 other NPC characters (taking the roles left over) pointing out certain mechanics and general information about dungeons, trash packs, bosses, etc.

Many of these things brand new players really do not learn well until they meet much more experienced players that explain the details of these things. Sure it is easy to say hey go watch so and so's youtube channel or read these build threads etc... Those options do not hit everyone, in my opinion making complete noobs go through these types of more indepth tutorials at the very start of the game will bring much better gameplay to all noobs. Any other ideas on potential tutorials that complete noobs can experience, or any opinions/comments on my suggestions are all welcome.

WaltherCarraway · August 2017

There should be a manual named "How not to be a potato charging Alessia Bridge mindlessly."

Shadzilla · August 2017

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

There should be a manual named "How not to be a potato charging Alessia Bridge mindlessly."

Farming reds would be much more complicated with that manual out and about to the general public

FloppyTouch · August 2017

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

There should be a manual named "How not to be a potato charging Alessia Bridge mindlessly."

That bridge has been renamed blues home keep

Shadzilla · August 2017

FloppyTouch wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

There should be a manual named "How not to be a potato charging Alessia Bridge mindlessly."

That bridge has been renamed blues home keep

Lol

Shadzilla · September 2017

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371707/eso-has-a-terrible-first-impression-to-new-comer#latest

Nighn_9 · September 2017

a way for guilds that currently have guild traders to be able to invite them instantly. that is if they don't have 500 players at that time

Runschei · September 2017

A DC handbook "there are other keeps than Chalman"

MehrunesFlagon · September 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

I recently met a 200+ CP player, doing a trade, that had absolutely no idea how to play correctly. I think ZOS should really look at updating the tutorials towards a number of different aspects of the game. For example, this guy had no idea he was able to join 5 guilds, no clue on how to do a dungeon, no clue on what set bonuses were good for his play style nor the ability to craft sets, and has never even heard of a rotation. I will be completely honest, I have not done any tutorials since march of 2014 so maybe this guy was just really slow and some of these tutorials are already in game. Regardless, I would love to see ZOS insert some more tutorials that spend a bit of time going over main aspects of the game for brand new players.

-Guilds, how many you can join and how they work (kiosks, members, permissions, etc)
-Sets, and their bonuses... Give some information on the general way set bonuses work, what works best for melee or ranged, magicka or stamina, tanks or healers. Go over the importance of spell/weapon crit and damage. Let the noob know how there are 3 crafting stations in each zone, perhaps even give a quest to find death's wind and craft a full 5 piece?
-Doing a rotation... Obviously in PVE, everyone that has played for awhile knows how to build their own custom rotations. Noobs don't, like at all. Go over the importance of DOTs in rotations, spammables, resource management. Perhaps have a quest where the noob has temporary access to every class skill and morphs until the end of the tutorial. Go over the general aspect of dropping a bunch of DOTs on a target skeleton while using a spammable during the downtime until it is time to refresh the DOTs again etc.
-Doing a dungeon... Do a decent explanation on how things actually work. Groups usually have 2 dps, 1 healer and 1 tank. Get the noob to pick a role, and go through a few fights with 3 other NPC characters (taking the roles left over) pointing out certain mechanics and general information about dungeons, trash packs, bosses, etc.

Many of these things brand new players really do not learn well until they meet much more experienced players that explain the details of these things. Sure it is easy to say hey go watch so and so's youtube channel or read these build threads etc... Those options do not hit everyone, in my opinion making complete noobs go through these types of more indepth tutorials at the very start of the game will bring much better gameplay to all noobs. Any other ideas on potential tutorials that complete noobs can experience, or any opinions/comments on my suggestions are all welcome.

This all sounds like a lack of reading comprehension skills.Blame the American education system.Not ZOS

Betheny · September 2017

I don't think these people can read, so any kind of tutorial would need to have big pictures in it.

Morgul667 · September 2017

There are many players with CP who know pretty much nothing about games mechanics.

Met a DPS with sword and shield the other day. Asked him if he could DPS like this, he said yes. Gave him a shot. He was doing less than 5K and was sure of doing fine.

We miss true tutorials for all points mentioned and all roles of dungeons.

Linaleah · September 2017

the game itself does an absolutely awful job of teaching you how to play it and what it has to offer. you pretty much HAVE to go outside of the game or ask other players in game for any and all information. beyond the few prompts telling you how to dodge, interrupt and heavy attack - you either have to just trying everything to see what might work or give up and ask for outside help. its also forgiving enough that it takes a lot before it becomes impossible to complete overland quests.

no, it does not mean that game should be harder. it has several what is the word... skill caps I guess can work as it is. thanks to animation canceling and just the nature of it being active combat that requires actual aiming rather then sticky/tab target combat of quite a few other MMO's but it DOES mean that in game tutorials could use a LOT of improvement. like.. in many cases - those tutorials need to exist, period. and this new system of players not even seeing weapon/armor skill lines until they do a correct combination of tasks that they may or may not see the hints of via not very obvious prompts? only made it worse, NOT better

thedude33 · September 2017

Things change so quickly, that I imagine it would be very tough to keep an in game tutorial relevant. Too much time and resources would be needed. Hell, even active streamers have to constantly upload new content to reflect all the patches and new DLCs.

In fact, looking back at all the different RPGs I have played in the past. None of them have up to date tutorials.

Curious though, when a new player is learning the game by doing a bunch of reading. What is the difference between reading an ingame tutorial as compared to a youtube tutorial? You still have to put the work in. ... and I would trust a month old video far more than a 2 year old in game tutorial.

JamieAubrey · September 2017

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PVP DEFENCE 101

Many times you will find me shouting at AD ( see sig ) to set up 2 oils facing inner pouring on flag, 2 fire balist at each side of the door ( scroll and mages ) firing at the door, 2 meatbags on both flags and for the love that is holy CALTROPS, slows them down, all together anyone that come sin the MG will drop dead

But alas does any of this happen ? does it buggery and the enemy all rush in and take what ever keep they are at

Chronicburn · September 2017

Warn noobs to get a mount asap because leveling is gonna take months... also warn new crafters to start researching immediately and to do the provisioning writs constantly as they level or they will miss lots of recipies.
Also maybe give new characters a warning of impending nerfs ... like if they are gonna pick a NB maybe say "before you select this class, please be aware ZOS is seriously taking away or weakening (insert ability here).
LAST AND MOST IMPORTANT....
TELL new players they need to choose between putting all their points in stamina (and choose all stamina weapons and skills) OR vice versa with magic .... that way they aren't walking around with balanced stats in a couple months wondering why their character is so gimped !

That's all

Oh PS MAKE SURE THEY KNOW THE BLUE "monster trophy" collectibles are really just vendor trash

Sneaky-Snurr · September 2017

A list of known and unfixed bugs (especially ones since launch).

Make2k15 · September 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

I recently met a 200+ CP player, doing a trade, that had absolutely no idea how to play correctly. I think ZOS should really look at updating the tutorials towards a number of different aspects of the game. For example, this guy had no idea he was able to join 5 guilds, no clue on how to do a dungeon, no clue on what set bonuses were good for his play style nor the ability to craft sets, and has never even heard of a rotation. I will be completely honest, I have not done any tutorials since march of 2014 so maybe this guy was just really slow and some of these tutorials are already in game. Regardless, I would love to see ZOS insert some more tutorials that spend a bit of time going over main aspects of the game for brand new players.

Maybe some kind of training area consisting the stuff u mentioned and some stuff which would be useful for advanced players as well.

(1) Official target dummy dps tests with leaderboards and achievements:
Rookie Damage dealer (= dps 7-15k)
Veteran Damage dealer (dps 15-25k)
Trial Damage dealer (dps 25-30k)
Champion Damage dealer (dps 30-35k)
Target dummy artist (dps over 35k), title

And ofc these achievements could be used in my proposition of the trial group finder as a queue criteria perhaps (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371565/proposition-how-to-add-veteran-normal-trials-to-group-finder#latest)

(2) (3) Equivalent tests for healers and tanks. E.g. How much healer can heal per second and tank take dmg per second or something like that.

Irfind · September 2017

Make2k15 wrote: »

(1) Official target dummy dps tests with leaderboards and achievements:
Rookie Damage dealer (= dps 15-20k)
Veteran Damage dealer (dps 20-25k)
Trial Damage dealer (dps 25-30k)
Champion Damage dealer (dps 30-35k)
Target dummy artist (dps over 35k), title (Im the Best of the Best you nooooobs) fixxed it

Uhm ok so with my only 13-15k i can't do normal dungeons since im not a Rookie (it seems so on your list)? nice. You know that most Players only do 5-11k in normal dungeons (and they finish it

)?

Enslaved · September 2017

as if one could not grind to CP 200 in a week using 2-3 bs aoe skills.

Zer0oo · September 2017

Explain them that you can craft good sets by your own. (atleast i did run around with random drop sets like a noob till i reached VR rank and found out that crafted sets are really good)

A better explanation of cyrodiil and it's"objectives" :

How to get emp,
don't shoot the door if you want to damage the wall
what happens if all resources of a keep are taken
Def and offensive ap ticks, how to get and use siege
how to play in pvp(slot a selfheal, set up damage, cc break, dodge/block heavy hits)
how to get out of cyro and that every keep has a teleport
...

Give players more feedback if they are ready for a dungeon. Since the overland pve is so extrem easy and normal dungeons are also no challenge many players don't really learn to play and if they try a vet dungeon they are really not prepared. Especial since the dungeon difficulty varies so much from dungeon to dungeon and there is no indication on what dungeon is hard and which on is not(first vet dungeon ROM or COS is not really a good idea).

Explain how damage scaling works. e.g your damage only scales of your max resources+weapon damage(spell damage)
(using skills that don't use your max resources pool will not hit hard)

Give better tool-tips:

indicating what kind of damage the skill is. Dot, direct damage, meele, elem damage, magic,.. (important since cp/sets only buffs some special kind of damage)
show the exact scaling of a skill (e.g some kills only scale of max mag)
rework tooltips to better show how %-scaling works with a skill (since a % increase of a skill e.g. from a set does add additive so the total damage of the tooltip doesn't increase by x%)

Tell them a ICE STAFF is now a tank weapon. (Still funny)

Make2k15 · September 2017

Irfind wrote: »

Make2k15 wrote: »

(1) Official target dummy dps tests with leaderboards and achievements:
Rookie Damage dealer (= dps 15-20k)
Veteran Damage dealer (dps 20-25k)
Trial Damage dealer (dps 25-30k)
Champion Damage dealer (dps 30-35k)
Target dummy artist (dps over 35k), title (Im the Best of the Best you nooooobs) fixxed it

Uhm ok so with my only 13-15k i can't do normal dungeons since im not a Rookie (it seems so on your list)? nice. You know that most Players only do 5-11k in normal dungeons (and they finish it )?

Right, maybe those dps values would need a bit adjusting at the lower end considering that not everybody has cps maxed and close to BIS gear

Taking that into account:

(1) Official target dummy dps tests with leaderboards and achievements:
Rookie Damage dealer (= dps 7-15k)
Veteran Damage dealer (dps 15-25k)
Trial Damage dealer (dps 25-30k)
Champion Damage dealer (dps 30-35k)
Target dummy artist (dps over 35k), title

SquareSausage · September 2017

'For example, this guy had no idea he was able to join 5 guilds, no clue on how to do a dungeon, no clue on what set bonuses were good for his play style nor the ability to craft sets, and has never even heard of a rotation.'

in all seriousness, these people who are so bad will never learn and no tutorial will ever help them. Have met enough of these people already, godbless them.

However, tutorials on the main part are the way forward. They need to be more precise and offer more than a 2H sword as a weapon when you start a new char which is all you are given currently. Should be a range from 1hs, 2h, bow, staff etc.

Also there needs to be more than just a heavy attack/block tutorial. New players need to be shown that skills are the main damaging abilities. How resources work against skills etc, recovery. Like a wee npc telling you this, which he will repeat if you ask, and is available at say fighters or mages guild halls.

trading tutorials at markets/banks so new players don't get scammed.

Inform about joining player run guilds.

All this needs to be layed out for the people who seriously need help.

Shadzilla · October 2017

SquareSausage wrote: »

'For example, this guy had no idea he was able to join 5 guilds, no clue on how to do a dungeon, no clue on what set bonuses were good for his play style nor the ability to craft sets, and has never even heard of a rotation.'

in all seriousness, these people who are so bad will never learn and no tutorial will ever help them. Have met enough of these people already, godbless them.

However, tutorials on the main part are the way forward. They need to be more precise and offer more than a 2H sword as a weapon when you start a new char which is all you are given currently. Should be a range from 1hs, 2h, bow, staff etc.

Also there needs to be more than just a heavy attack/block tutorial. New players need to be shown that skills are the main damaging abilities. How resources work against skills etc, recovery. Like a wee npc telling you this, which he will repeat if you ask, and is available at say fighters or mages guild halls.

trading tutorials at markets/banks so new players don't get scammed.

Inform about joining player run guilds.

All this needs to be layed out for the people who seriously need help.

Completely agreed.

Runefang · October 2017

People who want to learn, will.

Those who don't, wont.

WatchYourSixx · October 2017

I don't think there necessarily needs to be a tutorial for all those things. Just that there needs to be a sense of direction. Instead of saying this is how you can do a rotation, give a hint while out in the world facing a stronger mob that says "combine multiple abilities to deal massive damage to your enemies" or something like that.

I think death recap tells you a lot of good information, but people rarely read it. Make that information more readily available. Ex. When you die in dungeons to bosses it usually gives you tips on the mechanics. Those things are usually important if you cannot pick up on what the boss is doing, yet most players don't read it. Maybe giving new players some kind of indication that makes them wonder about these aspects. If you are interested you will want to learn more. That's where the forums or Internet or other players comes in. If you aren't interested in learning more, what makes you think people will want to sit through tutorials that they aren't interested in.

Give players an idea but don't force them into something they don't want to do.

Nord_Templar · October 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

I think ZOS should really look at updating the tutorials towards a number of different aspects of the game.

It's unlikely that they will do this. It's a waste of money and time. It is understood that a gamer can get all the knowledge in his Guild.
I've been playing for 2.5 years, and I've learned everything myself. Self-study of the game - this is also part of the game This is part of the money that you paid.
I see great players in the game, and they are members of good Guilds, usually.

Balamoor · October 2017

I dunno guys I have pointed folks to the Miss Bizz tutorials and that usually works....also the game isn't really rocket science. EvE was hard to figure out...ESO not so much.

YMMV though

inthecoconut · October 2017

I don't think it would be that hard to implement a tutorial room or "arena" that wont progress until certain perimeters are met from the player.

ie: block 3 attacks, interrupt 3 spells, follow through on a staggered enemy and stun them 3 times, dodge roll out of a red circles 3 times, use a charged staff/melee weapon 3 times to recharge your magicka/stamina ect.

I was about lvl 20 when I decided to get some clarity on these mechanics by watching youtube videos because I didn't recognize when to block or when to bash and why I could stun some enemies and not others ect. Around lvl 30 I did a dungeon and the other two people with me were CP160 and the healer kept dying to a specific attack during one of the boss fights because they weren't blocking, they just kept auto attacking through it and it would instantly kill them EVERY time. Some of that responsibility is definitely on the player, especially if you are CP160 doing normals, but I also feel like things are poorly explained in this game.

Riejael · October 2017

www.google.com
www.youtube.com

And probably other sites too. Seriously, players can offer far better tutorials than a developer can. A dev is a coder, not a gamer. He throws some stuff together and uses metrics to try and balance things as best they can. They are by no means experts on the game they design.

This is akin to an engineer that designs a racecar. He can't do the same things with it as a professional driver. Sometimes you get an oddity that can, and sometimes a coder can play a game well. But its the exception and no the rule.

To put it simply, we as players are far better at the game than the developers. We know it inside and out as far as application is concerned. They know how the code works, they'll know how much of a difference 10000 vs 12000 resist does. But they won't know how 12000 resists versus block cost reduction. How could they? They can make a good guess. But taking a hit, and blocking more is something a player is going to be able to figure out.

And with how ESO is designed, the content is not designed around a specific class/weapon/race/armor combination in mind. They tune it to what they think is good enough, if it seems too easy, they boost it, if its too hard they tone it down. They give us options and use metrics to see if any of those options over/underperform and try to adjust it as best they can.

Its why nerfs/buffs seem weird. We have a better idea of what the numbers will do in a given situation, they know what the numbers will do in a general situation. They have to try their best to get it somewhere inbetween and tweak from there.

But they have no clue how to play it. Its like animation cancelling. I'll wager at least half the devs don't even know how to do it. How could they make a tutorial on it? Its originally a bug that turned feature when they found they couldn't fix it without breaking stuff.

Juhasow · October 2017

And then I am joining BG's where cp 250 player is holding full enemie team on himself and spamming BoL like crazy yet not running out of resources and surviving everything.

YT is better tutorial then this game can have anytime soon (ever).

Shadzilla · October 2017

I completely agree that youtube and other players are far better tutorials, there is no doubt. On the other hand, there is no data on exactly how many people just do not have fun within their first 10 or 20 hours of the game and drop it entirely... There are many people who complain about them not figuring out the most basic of things until much later on in the game due to other players advice or youtube videos. The fact is there is no harm in making a better, more up to date, tutorial system... The argument of "you should have watched a youtube video on how to play" does not really fit logic in my opinion... The game should explain many basic things much better then it currently does...