Qbiken wrote: »

Saying that vMA is all about memorizing and that it requires no skill to do so is simply not true.

I'm not saying it requires no skill. I equally doubt you can argue that memorizing is a small part of it. That aspect becomes more about recall than reaction.

Yes, you still have to deal with things. You still have to survive and damage and follow mechanics. I'm questioning none of those things. And yes, there is still a certain level of ability required to even do that.

I am saying it would be a greater testament to skill if there were dynamic factors. Scripted spawns and locations and the ability to damage or be damaged by such before being fully materialized has irritated me since it was a thing in vDSA.

Predictable spawns, predictable AI. A dynamic aspect to one or both of those would no doubt make the top tier players shine even more.

That's what I'm saying.

I can tell you how to "fix vMA". Instead of dropping items, drop tokens that you can take to a daedric vendor. Let folks buy their item that they want. The RNG model for this trial is ridiculous. It is soul sucking. I know more than one person who literally disappeared from group play into vMA, played for a couple of months, and then finally quit the game because of futility of getting the sharpened weapon they were looking for. Also, I'm sure folks are thrilled that sharpened isn't best in slot anymore. Another month of grinding?

I missed this part, and my apologies OP, first and foremost.

Gratz on your clear. This should have been the first thing in my reply, and it wasn't.

I got caught up in the arguments about what a cakewalk some seem to think it is and all their justifications for it.

It's not easy, and it is frustrating, at least initially without insight and practice. I think all the conquerors on here sometimes forget that.

Regarding the poison spawns, far as I know that's simply bad RNG, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Regarding further runs, best advice I can offer is to stop before you get to the point where you feel overstressed. Learn to recognize it, and remember that no content is worth getting that worked up over.

Take it a bite at a time (a few rounds at a time) and take a break, or flat out walk away when you start getting worked up.

I've called it on more than one occasion on the last round of the last stage for that very reason.

The short version: If it ceases to be fun for you, if the personal enjoyment of running/clearing the content becomes less than the stress you endure in the process, simply don't.

DDemon wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

It's posts like these which prevents ZOS from making more difficult solo content. Some of us actually like content which requires half a brain to complete. A lot of my new friends to the game completed it at 160-200cp. The solo content of ESO is far far easier than in other mmo's. I'm afraid this is a case of git gud.

VMA is NOT hard content, well, once you figured out the mechanics it does have, and you can simply skip most of them anyway. Only reason it is considered hard is the incoming damage. I can do flawless runs on multiple characters even while heavily intoxicated with booze.

It became easier the more CP we got and the more we got boosted. Despite what some said about the resource changing patch, for me it felt like it got easier (yeah I know, weird.)

I can still say I hate the arena though, and it's not because it's hard or easy, it's because it is time consuming and the RNG at the end chest completely ruins any good experience I've had in the arena.

Anyway, they did the exact thing as I feared, I've ran maelstrom of and on since it came out, and never got the weapons I wanted, and a few weeks ago I finally did, and look what happened, it's no longer BIS so I don't need it...

Well of course VMA isn't hard for us. This thread is about what can be done for the players that DO find it hard.

TeIvanni wrote: »

So.. prior to today. The last time I attempted vMA was almost two years ago, a few months after orisinum was released.
It was one of my worst gaming experiences ever... The run lasted 11 Hours and 15 minutes (4 of those hours were spent on the final boss) and ended with me giving up with 250 deaths
^This experience is one of the reasons I quit playing ESO for almost two years.

Today, however. I am proud to announce that I successfully completed vMA for the first time ever.
The run lasted about 3 hours (most of that time was spent dying to cheesy mechanics on the argonian level... Is it possible for poison buds NOT to spawn inside the mender's shield EVERY SINGLE TIME?).

Anyway.. what should have been an exciting accomplishment was tainted by the fact that I felt physically ill.
Those three hours of intense mental strain really did a number on me...

I had a massive headache and I couldn't see straight for about 45 minutes afterwards.

vMA should come with a health hazard warning.

lol I agree.

Veteran Maelstrom Arena is like torture.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Saying that vMA is all about memorizing and that it requires no skill to do so is simply not true.

I'm not saying it requires no skill. I equally doubt you can argue that memorizing is a small part of it. That aspect becomes more about recall than reaction.

Yes, you still have to deal with things. You still have to survive and damage and follow mechanics. I'm questioning none of those things. And yes, there is still a certain level of ability required to even do that.

I am saying it would be a greater testament to skill if there were dynamic factors. Scripted spawns and locations and the ability to damage or be damaged by such before being fully materialized has irritated me since it was a thing in vDSA.

Predictable spawns, predictable AI. A dynamic aspect to one or both of those would no doubt make the top tier players shine even more.

That's what I'm saying.

Agreed.

It did not take me long to realize the VMA was more about memorizing scripted battles and coping with cheesy mechanics than anything else. I suppose some may refer to it as skill (and i suppose in a way it is) but it's not the type of challenge I enjoy.

When you start farming vMA for weps, you're gonna have a real health problem.

WeyounTM wrote: »

I only started doing this abomination of a play mode after all the nice Morrowind nerfs. Started with my Khajiit Magplar no less. Got to stage 6 somehow and then was slaughtered by the boss over and over and over because if you lack the DPS she will eventually just one shot you outa nowhere.
Gave up with my main and went in there again with my Khajiit Magsorc. I couldnt believe how much easier that went but I am still stuck at the very last boss. I kinda should be proud of myself for even getting there, but I aint.
If you lack the recomended 3 trillion DPS a second you will have a bad time. And even if you manage to get around some of the cheese mechanix, a small slip up will just be your doom.

I get it that hard content should be hard. But some of the mechanics are simply a mess and unfair. I cant imagin doing this for fun ever. I only just wanted to complete it once on my main...but since Templars are on the bottom of the foodchain anyway and I aint no good player or min-maxer...this isnt for me.

If you lack the DPS the boss will indeed enrage. But you can reset thar by clearing the cobwebs from the obelisks. You do this by either killing the hoarvor close to them or using the synergy and throw an acid grenade on them. Note that the grenade also weakens the enemies hit making them more vulnerable. Once all 5 obelisks are freed the boss and adds get stunned and can be killed easily. The fastest is if you have a hard hitting ult to nuke the boss down to >30% then move into execute mode.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

BlackbirdV wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

It's posts like these which prevents ZOS from making more difficult solo content. Some of us actually like content which requires half a brain to complete. A lot of my new friends to the game completed it at 160-200cp. The solo content of ESO is far far easier than in other mmo's. I'm afraid this is a case of git gud.

I doubt your "new friends to the game" cleared vMA at CP 160-200; especially post Morrowind. If by chance they did, I will say first hand that they must have lived in there trying to get a clear.

Actually, he did. vMA is about skill, and since ESO seems to be catered towards bad players, obviously a lot of people find it hard because they have no idea that red = bad, or how to actually deal with somehwhat challenging mechanics - they rely on better players too much.

It's honestly a case of get good & learn to actually play. vMA will 100% help players do that if they continuously repeat that content until they actually learn how to deal with situations

Agree with @Diminish & calling "***" here. Considering the scaling factor & the fact that they'd earn >40 cps practicing. Unless he came from a second account or had massive insight, I sincerely doubt it.

I am, however amused at the prospect that memorizing spawn locations somehow equates to skill. "Half a brain / git gud?" Congrats, you can do what most 5 year old's with a deck of cards can do. If there was an actual dynamic factor involved in any of the content, it would be considerably different.

Unless you're towards the top of the leaderboard, vMA is more about gear, tolerance, and repetition/memorization than it will ever be about skill.

As Mr Noob Noob would say "God D@mn!"

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Saying that vMA is all about memorizing and that it requires no skill to do so is simply not true.

I'm not saying it requires no skill. I equally doubt you can argue that memorizing is a small part of it. That aspect becomes more about recall than reaction.

Yes, you still have to deal with things. You still have to survive and damage and follow mechanics. I'm questioning none of those things. And yes, there is still a certain level of ability required to even do that.

I am saying it would be a greater testament to skill if there were dynamic factors. Scripted spawns and locations and the ability to damage or be damaged by such before being fully materialized has irritated me since it was a thing in vDSA.

Predictable spawns, predictable AI. A dynamic aspect to one or both of those would no doubt make the top tier players shine even more.

That's what I'm saying.

But that's assuming PvE is dynamic content to begin with. Trials aren't dynamic content at all; in fact, I can't think of a competent, fair raid in an MMO that has dynamics. This isn't a roguelike dungeon crawler. This is an MMO. Every single trial and raid in this game is static; everything is already determined and you can plan ahead. The reason why this is so is to prevent people from relying on RNG. Because a truly "changing" atmosphere relies on a generator, we have to then say it relies on RNG. And what good content has ever came from that?

The most annoying fight in vMA is Round 7, which is RNG based on where the shroom spawns. This is the worst mechanic because you cannot predict it; it can spawn at your feet, hide in bushes, or be beneath an enemy and it sucks. And it isn't even that bad because it's only within an area.

You mention how top tier players would shine more? How so? If a decent player was given great spawns and easy enemies, then they would no doubt do better than a top-tier player fighting against difficult enemies given crappy spawns? The top-tier player would have to spend more time on that difficult mobfest, just because they happened to deal with those enemies, which, let's assume, deal much more damage and are harder to kill. That means their score is lowered. That makes RNG a great determiner for score. And that's complete crap.

vMA is great for determining competency because it shows you can learn mechanics and can survive the damage mobs do. That's really important in a really casual game that has a huge fraction of the playerbase that does not participate in endgame. Practicing it gives you more insight into how the game works and what is expected of you, and players who go above and beyond and go for leaderboard help solidify that.

I ran vMA again on a mag DK this time...My lord that was terrible. Spent 7 hours on the final boss.

I've got it down to about 70 minute runs on my mag sorc now. So it was horrify, knowing exactly how the fight should play out. Knowing what I needed to do. But failing over and over to do what needed to be done.

I still feel physically ill from this last 11 hour run.
I'm shaky and feel like i need to vomit.

I cleared it though? So i guess that's something...

Seriously though should come with health warning.

I've done it enough that it's mostly boring now. The only thing that frustrates me is the major bugs.