Update Vanilla Zone Quality

LadyNalcarya · June 2017

I agree.
To be honest I dont understand why base game is still in store now that they released Morrowind. I feel bad for the new players who only bought base game and dont have access to Morrowind and dlcs.

I've met quite a few of them who arent really interested in buying dlcs simply because of the quality of base game content.

Darkstorne · June 2017

I still think flora and draw distance are the game's biggest issues. It's not just Skyrim that has better vegetation and vistas, but Oblivion too. You have to go all the way back to Morrowind in 2002 to find a TES game that looks more dated than TESO where environments are concerned...

VerboseQuips · June 2017

I agree with this. Now Rivenspire would really benefit from a make-up.

Iccotak · June 2017

ZOS listens to the community and unless they see that we are how truly bothered by the lack of visual quality in vanilla content compared to the DLCs
Then they won't do a thing.

I repeat I am not saying all Vanilla zones need to be updated at once.
I want ZOS to take their time to update one zone at a time

Yes updated technology is the probably the primary reason for the difference between vanilla and dlc.
(Also different lead artists)
BUT that being said, ZOS has to go the extra mile to ESO stand out as an MMO and more importantly to break the mold of initial impressions from launch of 2014.

Bo0137 · June 2017

I couldn't agree more! I was actually going to post something like this in the forums...
I REALLY don't mind the texture of the maps, but I would change two things:
- Quest plots (I know some questlines are really good but the newest quests have better mechanics and plots since Orsinium and Thieves Guild)
- Default race armors (ok, some look nice... but some don't)

idk · June 2017

I would be surprised if this was not already on a list for Zos to tackle but I'd expect it would. If be a speedy approach.

I would prefer working on multithread and multi core support to take higher priority since it would help the game run better for everyone.

Iccotak · June 2017

Music
An important thing that helps set the tone and atmosphere of a game is its soundtrack, and while the game does have a good soundtrack we hear it everywhere. If I hear the same music in the harsh frozen tundra of Skyrim that I hear in the hot deserts of Hammerfell then it will feel off. Having music that is made from each respective culture of that homeland will help immerse the player because it will feel new when they travel to the next area. Music helps a player return to places. Morrowind has a distinctive and unique soundtrack becuase it represents an entire people.

Variety of animals
Instead of re-skined animals having different types of spider actually look different would be a nice touch.

In ESO the frostbite spider looks like a spider with different colors

In Skyrim the spider actually has a unique look for its species

Main point being:
If I am going to run into similar animals in different zones, then make them look adapted to that zone.
If I run into a guar in Black Marsh, then make it look like it belongs there. Different exotic colors we would see in a marsh/jungle.
This helps make each zone feel unique on its own.

Iccotak · June 2017

Reverb wrote: »

I don't disagree, but that is extremely unlikely to happen. We'll be lucky to get bug fixes in the vanilla zones going forward. There's simply no money to be made by spending developer effort on old content.

Disagree with this.
One of the major reasons I hear people say they don't want to play is because of the graphics and textures are not up to snuff.
Then I show them the DLC areas and they say it looks awesome and it makes them more interested.
That was one of the major points of the Morrowind Chapter.

Alpheu5 · June 2017

All of the old stuff needs to be updated, including the templates they use for recent releases. The fire kagouti and cliff racer were released within days of each other, but the difference in quality between their height maps and texture resolutions are staggering, most likely because the kagouti skin was just a modified file of something they made back in 2014.

Here's an example of something old next to something new:

Iccotak · June 2017

Thank you @Alpheu5, that is a great example of what I am talking about.

btw here is an older post I made talking about updating vanilla content but with far more detail about the subject:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/317917/visual-update-of-original-content#latest

Joffi · June 2017

ESO did begin supporting DirectX 9. However, with the change to require DirectX 11, I would have expected all textures to be upgraded accordingly.

Roovin · June 2017

Zero chance this ever happens.

Iccotak · June 2017

Roovin wrote: »

Zero chance this ever happens.

If no one pushes for it then yes, it won't.
But Zenimax listens to its fan base and if there is a large demand for updated Vanilla content then they will do it.
We as consumers have to push for things we want in the game.

-Things like Morrowind happened because of large demand for more content that felt like Elder Scrolls.
-The DLCs have better graphics because of demand.
-Battlegrounds was implemented due to demand for it.
-More hairstyles and dyes because of demand
-Demand got us a Justice system and the ability to murder NPCs
-A New Class because of Demand

HugsAlotOfBosmer · June 2017

hmm, yea. the old zones could need some texture updates and such. maybe add some new stuff to the zones, like trees, plants, stones, houses etc. like some of the cities and towns feels way too small. Sure, is mostly due to the scaling of the world. Though still would be neat

Bonzodog01 · June 2017

But.....but...CONSOLE!

The Xbox One can barely handle the game as it is, and if you move too fast or attempt to click on stuff in a DLC zone, the game will crash harder than Richard Hammond.

Us console peasants can barely manage 30 FPS, and gods help you should multiple players decide to be around you and using skills!

Korah_Eaglecry · June 2017

Darkstorne wrote: »

staracino_ESO wrote: »

The representation we got at launch for the Eastern part of Skyrim was extremely disappointing. I hope they do their homework before they bring out the Western half.

I think a big part of this is because they had to spread their time and resources out to develop parts of EVERY province in Tamriel for release. Whereas all the DLC afterwards has been highly focused on one location at a time, and the jump in quality and attention to detail (both architecturally and environmentally) is plain to see.

Makes me wish they'd created fewer zones to start with, and built the game around One Tamriel's exploration from the very beginning Poor Valenwood for example is already fully built, looks atrocious, nothing like the lore (or even the concept art) and there's no room for future DLC to do another section of Valenwood justice.

Theres an interview somewhere with Matt Firor I believe that talks about how ESO was originally going to imitate WoW in its very cartoonish style. But Skyrim dropped and sales went through the roof and that essentially forced them to change their approach to ESO (this is a part of why the game felt so incomplete at launch).

Everything from armor motifs to buildings and horses have a much more cartoonish vibe to them in the base game. Partly because they couldnt overhaul everything before launch.

grizzledcroc · June 2017

Look at this forest. doe

OutLaw_Nynx · June 2017

Never really looked much into the differences between zones until now.. would be nice to see vanilla ESO updated.

Iccotak · June 2017

There is an ongoing project called "Beyond Skyrim"

They are creating DLC sized areas for Skyrim that extend beyond the borders.

What I noticed esspecially was the Black Marsh concept art, and how they were making animals look different there.
Which comes back to a previous point I made of making animals look like they belong in the zones.

Guar from Morrowind and one from Black Marsh blackmarsh-guar1.jpg.db031acef1669ecbd28ed52adbc79339.jpg

blackmarsh-guar1.jpg.db031acef1669ecbd28ed52adbc79339.jpg

Tropical Cliffracer
$blackmarsh-cliffracer2.jpg.d6fc5cb827350a79acdc473c67d5a191.jpg$

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S0Bv5Luzfo

Iccotak · June 2017

If ZOS does update the vanilla zones, then YES it should be done gradually.
Trying to do it all at once would be way to draining on resources.

That is why I say to focus on Rocks and Flora first!
Those are the most noticeable features.

Eventually, I would like to see ZOS take the time to re-do Eastmarch/the Rift recreate Skyrim from the 2011 game like they did with Vvardefell.

It would be more lore consistent and would look better than what we have.

Iccotak · June 2017

I am getting real tired of the "its 1000 years before Skyrim" argument almost everytime I say Zenimax should make Windhelm look like it did in Skyrim (2011).
It's a very poor argument when;
They Re-Created Vvardenfell from TES:III with minor differences
They Re-Created Imperial City from Oblivion and gave it the Daedric Makeover.
They Re-Created Anvil and Kvatch from Oblivion.

If those towns and Cities look just like they did in their games than Windhelm should look just like it did in Skyrim (2011).
The Lore clearly says the city was built by Ysgramor in the Merethic Era. The Architecture clearly comes from the Merethic Era.

Octopuss · August 2017

This thread should not be forgotten.

Vrienda · August 2017

Personally I'm not a fan of how Vvardenfell looks. Too many plants and clutter in external areas, it makes it feel claustrophobic.

Octopuss · August 2017

It's not about the style, it's about the quality and resolution of textures, which are obviously at least a level above the vanilla game, which looks horrible (I mean it's beautiful, but the textures are horribly blurry).

ascottk · August 2017

DLCs get new content but a wiser decision would be to UPDATE EXISTING CONTENT & reuse that for DLCs. ESO has a lot of shared content like rigged meshes, skeletons, and animations so why not static meshes too? Slap on a new skin/texture/material and it can totally alter the feel of an existing mesh. It'd be more resource friendly and varied. A lot of variation can be done with the material editor as well. Instead new models and textures are created for DLCs THUS longer loading times and performance issues. With updated existing content there could be less issues when traveling from Stonefalls to Vvardenfell because they look similar.

Another thing would be to redo the LOD meshes of a lot of buildings (I'm sure they cut corners & use a LOD generator but those ALWAYS look terrible & they're always less efficient... includes more polygons than what is necessary) so LOD meshes should be done by hand IMHO. When I"m stuck in LOD Hell those meshes are poorly aligned especially in Wayrest so I'm inspired to create am Argonian character named:

"Wades-In-Stone"

Because we're wading knee deep on walkways (also a lot of floating buildings). ZOS has been big on resource management for combat but they're falling short on game performance and that's extremely important with MMOs. I'm not saying nerf the visuals but there's an opportunity to refresh existing content while adding more content via DLCs. Have your cake and eat it too.

kichwas · August 2017

Iccotak wrote: »

Started Vvardenfel today, the difference in quality between this chapter and the vanilla zones is staggering.
I think if new players traveled to any of the vanllia zones they would be disapointed after their experiences in higher quality chapter of Vvardenfel.

As a new player I have the exact opposite conclusion.

The old zones, once I figured out how to get to them instead, made more sense and had more lore that roped me in and explained what was going on in this world.

The Morrowind zone presumes I already know everything about the world and the backstory... Like who this floating smurf in a super hero costume in the temple in the starter city is...

I was pretty confused about a lot of things until I figured out how to leave the island and do the other zones.

MLGProPlayer · August 2017

Darkstorne wrote: »

I still think flora and draw distance are the game's biggest issues. It's not just Skyrim that has better vegetation and vistas, but Oblivion too. You have to go all the way back to Morrowind in 2002 to find a TES game that looks more dated than TESO where environments are concerned...

They did a much better job with vegetation density in the Morrowind chapter. The base game zones are very sparse though.

MLGProPlayer · August 2017

kichwas wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Started Vvardenfel today, the difference in quality between this chapter and the vanilla zones is staggering.
I think if new players traveled to any of the vanllia zones they would be disapointed after their experiences in higher quality chapter of Vvardenfel.

As a new player I have the exact opposite conclusion.

The old zones, once I figured out how to get to them instead, made more sense and had more lore that roped me in and explained what was going on in this world.

The Morrowind zone presumes I already know everything about the world and the backstory... Like who this floating smurf in a super hero costume in the temple in the starter city is...

I was pretty confused about a lot of things until I figured out how to leave the island and do the other zones.

The poster you quoted was strictly talking about graphical quality.

MLGProPlayer · August 2017

Iccotak wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

I don't disagree, but that is extremely unlikely to happen. We'll be lucky to get bug fixes in the vanilla zones going forward. There's simply no money to be made by spending developer effort on old content.

Disagree with this.
One of the major reasons I hear people say they don't want to play is because of the graphics and textures are not up to snuff.
Then I show them the DLC areas and they say it looks awesome and it makes them more interested.
That was one of the major points of the Morrowind Chapter.

This game still looks better than 99% of MMOs.

And you can overcome a lot of the shortcomings with Reshade.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO · August 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

Yes! I agree with this post. Original base game looks rushed compared to DLC zones.

It most likely was rushed. Most games tend to be rushed when trying to be launched. Just ask EA...

Rushed is relative. The game was in development for 7 years before it was released.

It would be really nice if they could continue tweaking vanilla zones as DLC come out. A few years ago they expressed interest in introducing architectural diversity, but haven't done anything with that since. They also said they would revamp every vanilla dungeon and stopped a little more than halfway through.