Oblivion Damage

Malic · August 2017

This game, someone is always crying about something.

No more nerfs, lets think outside the box. How about the next 3 patches ZOS you just buff. like the proc set meta, you could have buffed mitigations, nope had to nerf to make the cry babies happy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xRrUVVKigk

Saturn · August 2017

Oblivion damage is an enchant, which has to be procced through a weapon attack, which you can counter. So you are wrong in assuming there's no counter. If we are talking specifically on builds with a lightning staff or a resto staff then it's a slightly different story, but seriously, people are hyping this up way too much. Currently it is a totally non-issue, except in situations where people have Viper and other proc sets to go alongside it, but even then with a fairly balanced PvP setup it's not the end of the world if you have a heal or two. Viper is nerfed into the floor next patch, but Infused / Torug's are becoming better, which is where all this outrage stems from. I don't believe it will be an actual problem and most everyone I pvp with concur in that. Sure it's unresistable, but if it doesn't exceed 3k per proc then it's less than what you'd see with viper and since there are less gear combos to make insta-gib setups, it really won't affect pvp as much as people want to believe it will. I mean I could be wrong and it could be bad, but I highly doubt it based on everything I've seen. At the start of Morrowind people were saying Oblivion damage with infused and torug's was OP, but right now on Live it's a garbage setup, after Monday it will be slightly less garbage.

RedFireDisco · August 2017

Honestly, I hope they double oblivion damage.

Slick_007 · August 2017

oblivion enchant is what 1900 damage? poison is 2800 or so. as is the rest of the damage enchants i think.

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Lol these threads.

Shield users get some beefy counter play and throw hissy fits. Regular enchants hit me harder and apply debuffs to me while in medium.

The counter play is healing. There are no status effects with oblivion.

Yes oblivion damage is gonna be strong. Yes Infused Torags is gonna be very strong if not meta for single target mag users.

but the fact is shield/heavy s+b users had the easy life and as soon as they need to adapt and adjust their build they go insane and cry nerf.

cry about the cooldown reduction of infused or torags. thats what really makes oblivion too strong. or how enchants apply on certain ability dots.

For classes/builds that can't dodge and cloak constantly during a 3+ minute battle, mitigation via block + armor or damage shields is the way to survive. Oblivion damage bypasses both. On the 4 second cooldown, that cannot be reduced by anything (current stage) it's already empowering higher numbers of players against small numbers of players.

Exhibit 1: Shields + mistform = lol nope we have light attacks.

Next patch we will probably see more of this except the damage health numbers will be higher, and it will take fewer people to achieve the same effect.
No, not everyone will run torug's and infused oblivion damage, I know I probably won't, but the problem is the same as shield breaker. Bad players who hate damage shields will get the build that ignores them and spam light attacks from the safety in numbers and basically wreck people.

What has the pvp community been saying about proc sets for the last year? The instant unavoidable damage is too strong and empowers zergs... proc sets finally get nerfed and what do we get? Instant unavoidable unresistable damage procing with every other light attack. Oh, and the proc can be placed on literally any build and set combination with essentially 0 downside.

But you are right, we should just roll over and take it because you have to dodge things instead of shielding them.

Your healing ward elusive mist combo doesn't work anymore? Reminds me almost how unreliable dodge roll is but its not even close.

Nobody cares if you died to an outnumbered fight. All you have provided is that you failed to adapt. Your just posting evidence that stacking shields is becoming less of an ez-mode strategy and zos is making it harder to 1vX again.

Most of the people complaining about oblivion are the triple shield stacking sorcs who refuse to slot any heals outside of healing ward. Just goes to show that light armour sorcs are no longer tanky due to oblivion. You are fragile without heals or else oblivion will kill you and it should.

I honestly see no problem with oblivion. Only potenail problem is the cooldown reduction with infused or torags. If a shield user only relies on healing ward and shields.... oblivion should be the counter.

Best bet it to slot resto ult and maybe run troll king.... but anything i say will be ridiculed because theres no such thing as adapting and changing meta sorc builds. If theres a counter to a meta sorc build its the counter that needs to be nerfed. Adapting on a mag sorc in the same sentence is forbidden.

idk · August 2017

Malic wrote: »

This game, someone is always crying about something.

No more nerfs, lets think outside the box. How about the next 3 patches ZOS you just buff. like the proc set meta, you could have buffed mitigations, nope had to nerf to make the cry babies happy.

Because it is the easiest way, though the proc meta, have to admit, it did not require skill. Gear almost completely made the player.

Drummerx04 · August 2017

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Lol these threads.

Shield users get some beefy counter play and throw hissy fits. Regular enchants hit me harder and apply debuffs to me while in medium.

The counter play is healing. There are no status effects with oblivion.

Yes oblivion damage is gonna be strong. Yes Infused Torags is gonna be very strong if not meta for single target mag users.

but the fact is shield/heavy s+b users had the easy life and as soon as they need to adapt and adjust their build they go insane and cry nerf.

cry about the cooldown reduction of infused or torags. thats what really makes oblivion too strong. or how enchants apply on certain ability dots.

For classes/builds that can't dodge and cloak constantly during a 3+ minute battle, mitigation via block + armor or damage shields is the way to survive. Oblivion damage bypasses both. On the 4 second cooldown, that cannot be reduced by anything (current stage) it's already empowering higher numbers of players against small numbers of players.

Exhibit 1: Shields + mistform = lol nope we have light attacks.

Next patch we will probably see more of this except the damage health numbers will be higher, and it will take fewer people to achieve the same effect.
No, not everyone will run torug's and infused oblivion damage, I know I probably won't, but the problem is the same as shield breaker. Bad players who hate damage shields will get the build that ignores them and spam light attacks from the safety in numbers and basically wreck people.

What has the pvp community been saying about proc sets for the last year? The instant unavoidable damage is too strong and empowers zergs... proc sets finally get nerfed and what do we get? Instant unavoidable unresistable damage procing with every other light attack. Oh, and the proc can be placed on literally any build and set combination with essentially 0 downside.

But you are right, we should just roll over and take it because you have to dodge things instead of shielding them.

Your healing ward elusive mist combo doesn't work anymore? Reminds me almost how unreliable dodge roll is but its not even close.

Nobody cares if you died to an outnumbered fight. All you have provided is that you failed to adapt. Your just posting evidence that stacking shields is becoming less of an ez-mode strategy and zos is making it harder to 1vX again.

Most of the people complaining about oblivion are the triple shield stacking sorcs who refuse to slot any heals outside of healing ward. Just goes to show that light armour sorcs are no longer tanky due to oblivion. You are fragile without heals or else oblivion will kill you and it should.

I honestly see no problem with oblivion. Only potenail problem is the cooldown reduction with infused or torags. If a shield user only relies on healing ward and shields.... oblivion should be the counter.

Best bet it to slot resto ult and maybe run troll king.... but anything i say will be ridiculed because theres no such thing as adapting and changing meta sorc builds. If theres a counter to a meta sorc build its the counter that needs to be nerfed. Adapting on a mag sorc in the same sentence is forbidden.

So your suggestion for sorcs is to just increase the "unkillable shield stacking cancer" by using the resto ult with their shield stacking? Great thanks I hadn't considered slotting an ultimate heal like 80% of the sorcs in Cyrodiil already do. Newsflash, they still die just fine.

This is not a thread about whether shield stacking is OP. Some say it is, like you clearly believe, others say it's not... the hundreds of sorcs and magicka users that die all day long even with shields disagree. Player skill is a huge factor.

This thread is about whether having your gear deal instant unavoidable and unresistable damage is a good thing. The community was pretty annoyed by the proc meta, and this is now a new extension of that.

And don't act like shields have no counter. They are expensive as hell and ONE good player can strip them away as fast as they can go up or time their burst when the shields fade on their own.

And you know what? Stacking 3 shields and then misting is not free. It's about 9-12k magicka with 0 regen during the mist, so forgive me if I feel a little cheated that taking up 4/10th of my active skills slots and dumping 1/4th of my resource pool into an incredibly short interval survival mode was thwarted by a weapon enchant that can literally be slapped into place on any gear combo and delivered at range with a light attack.

Tommy_The_Gun · August 2017

As long as there is a DMG shield that is not affected by crits & penetration in this game,
oblivion DMG (true dmg) will be the only counter for that. If ZOS will remove oblivion dmg from this game we will have a mechanics (DMG shield) that will not have a Counterplay.

Elyu wrote: »

There is NO counter to unresistable damage.

That is true but only to some point:

Unless something is bugged you can roll-dodge light & heavy attacks so the oblivion enchantment will not proc.

- Shield Breaker - (When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack against a Player with a damage shield, you deal an additional 2150 Oblivion Damage to them.) - Only works when the target has a DMG shield - don't use dmg shield and it will not proc. (Or just roll-dodge light & heavy attack in a first place).
- Knight Slayer - (Your fully-charged Heavy Attacks against Players deal an additional 9% of their Max Health as Oblivion Damage). Once again - if you dodge that heavy attack it will not proc.

Zer0oo · August 2017

Wow so many here defend utterly broken things. Also the hate on sorcs is real, seems a lot player got rekt in a 1vx against a sorc.

Fuxo · August 2017

The incoming torug's/infused/oblivion enchant meta basically means "zerg or gtfo" for pvp. Yes, there are dodge counters, etc. But the lag is real in pvp. I would expect devs know better after 3 years.

Brutusmax1mus · August 2017

I actually made a torugs/ spinners/ grothdar character yesterday. Melee mag blade. It was tons of fun as it's a different play style, but really only slaughtered the baddies. Solid builds and players were able to stabilize and heal.

I'm going to do prismatic/ fire tonight and hunt vamps lol. Prismatic is crazy strong.

BohnT · August 2017

Summoning @Derra to explain why Oblivion damage is a smaller Problem for shieldstackers than for all other classes.

I can't believe how people defend this crap. It will wreck heavy armor stamina players much more than anyone else.
Because it completely ignores blocking and their healing capability isn't enough to outheal oblivion damage of 2-3 players.
Heavy Armor magspecs come second because they have access to better heals and resto ult but they won't be able to survive the combo skill + oblivion damage from 2 players much longer because they can't block.
All non NB Medium Armor specs and magsorcs rank in the same place because they can avoid damage with dodge or they can shield through the skill damage and can outheal oblivion damage of one or 2 players. But they still die quickly due to undodgeable AoEs/ other undodgeable skills or not enough healing and sustain
The best defence against oblivion damage is owned by Nightblades both specs . They have good heals, can avoid damage with cloak, leave sticks situations with it and can heal back to 100% while being hidden.

The most players here who seem to cry for oblivion damage to stay are stamnbs who die against sorcs. I main a stamnb for 3 years now and yes fighting sorcs is *** as a stamnb. But you can win if you are good enough.
Both nbs and Sorcs are a bit too strong with magblade being the exception. They need small adjustments made to their class not a mechanic that kills the game for every other spec.
Oblivion damage is broken and must be removed, halved in damage, granting immunity against oblivion damage for 5 seconds to the enemy after being hit (glyph only) or changed into an 2.5k heal that isn't affected by battle spirit

LjAnimalchin · August 2017

While I definitely agree that something was needed to counter shieldstack, I feel like a major minor system on wards would be far better than this mess. Light attack spam should never be a counter to anything. It's unimaginative, bad, lazy design. You take literally the most basic attack in the game and make it a counter to a playstyle that takes far more than one button to pull off.

Please stop empowering xv1 players. Numbers should be the only advantage they have. Other games offer the outnumbered player some slight help, eso just helps the morons who don't wanna learn a build or a playstyle and just mindlessly run around with 50 others spamming 1 button and reking everything.

Tl:Dr this is lazy and bad design!!!

Apherius · August 2017

Keep_Door wrote: »

TL;DR

Nerf oblivion damage.

Awesome ,i don't see the word " sorc " in this sentence ... this is a historical moment ...

TequilaFire · August 2017

https://youtu.be/6OdVYnnp0Uw

Valencer · August 2017

Jamini wrote: »

Elyu wrote: »

The infused buff hasn't even made it to live servers and I've already encountered a mag dk using knight slayer, infused 1H with oblivion glyph. With heavy attack weaves on a 20k health target that works out as about 3400 damage per second (20000*0.09)+(2400*(2/3)) assuming oblivion glyh procs every 1.5 seconds with infused.

3,400 damage every second... I can deal far more than that with just about any decent build.

On your 20k health guy, that build has a 5.8 second TTK, assuming no heals. Vigor and Rally will heal ~1.5-2k per tick each, raising that TTK to 22.2 seconds.

Assuming you aren't using dumb food (by that I mean, you are using food with +health on it) , most players in PvP will have 12,000+5000+4000 health, or 21k health (actually most PvP-centric toons tend to be closer to 25k). This means your unmitigated TTK on a PvP build is 7.1s (27s with hots up). This does not include other burst heals like burning embers, siphoning attacks/strikes, BoL, soothing spores, rally recasts, dark conversion/deal, twilight matriach heal, healing ward heals... I can go on.

Oblivion Glyphs are going to be fine. The sky isn't falling. Slot some heals or run with a healer in your group.

This is really disingenuous.

You're literally saying that rally/vigor are not able to outheal a player doing nothing but spamming heavy attacks on you and that after x seconds you will die unless there's additional sources of healing. There's no problem with that? Being forced on the defensive constantly by something as stupid as heavy attack spam?

What if it's 2 players? 6k DPS from light attack spam from 2 players? Being effective in PvP is now reduced to knowing how to spam light or heavy attacks and with the bar being set this low you're basically going to die almost any time the numbers in a fight arent in your favor.

Guess we should all just never leave the homebase without a pocket healer. Too bad 5 people spamming light attacks will probably also annihilate a 30k health healer build in 3 seconds after HotR hits

Royaji · August 2017

Valencer wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

Elyu wrote: »

The infused buff hasn't even made it to live servers and I've already encountered a mag dk using knight slayer, infused 1H with oblivion glyph. With heavy attack weaves on a 20k health target that works out as about 3400 damage per second (20000*0.09)+(2400*(2/3)) assuming oblivion glyh procs every 1.5 seconds with infused.

3,400 damage every second... I can deal far more than that with just about any decent build.

On your 20k health guy, that build has a 5.8 second TTK, assuming no heals. Vigor and Rally will heal ~1.5-2k per tick each, raising that TTK to 22.2 seconds.

Assuming you aren't using dumb food (by that I mean, you are using food with +health on it) , most players in PvP will have 12,000+5000+4000 health, or 21k health (actually most PvP-centric toons tend to be closer to 25k). This means your unmitigated TTK on a PvP build is 7.1s (27s with hots up). This does not include other burst heals like burning embers, siphoning attacks/strikes, BoL, soothing spores, rally recasts, dark conversion/deal, twilight matriach heal, healing ward heals... I can go on.

Oblivion Glyphs are going to be fine. The sky isn't falling. Slot some heals or run with a healer in your group.

This is really disingenuous.

You're literally saying that rally/vigor are not able to outheal a player doing nothing but spamming heavy attacks on you and that after x seconds you will die unless there's additional sources of healing. There's no problem with that? Being forced on the defensive constantly by something as stupid as heavy attack spam?

What if it's 2 players? 6k DPS from light attack spam from 2 players? Being effective in PvP is now reduced to knowing how to spam light or heavy attacks and with the bar being set this low you're basically going to die almost any time the numbers in a fight arent in your favor.

Guess we should all just never leave the homebase without a pocket healer. Too bad 5 people spamming light attacks will probably also annihilate a 30k health healer build in 3 seconds after HotR hits

If you are being attacked by 5 people you really should be annihilated no matter how much health you have. The whole 1vX mentality is plaguing this games balancing. You are not supposed to kill 5 opponents alone. You should have a disadvantage if you are outnumbered. Stop balancing the game around the big-e-peen "I can solo 20 scrubs" guys.

BohnT · August 2017

Royaji wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

Elyu wrote: »

The infused buff hasn't even made it to live servers and I've already encountered a mag dk using knight slayer, infused 1H with oblivion glyph. With heavy attack weaves on a 20k health target that works out as about 3400 damage per second (20000*0.09)+(2400*(2/3)) assuming oblivion glyh procs every 1.5 seconds with infused.

3,400 damage every second... I can deal far more than that with just about any decent build.

On your 20k health guy, that build has a 5.8 second TTK, assuming no heals. Vigor and Rally will heal ~1.5-2k per tick each, raising that TTK to 22.2 seconds.

Assuming you aren't using dumb food (by that I mean, you are using food with +health on it) , most players in PvP will have 12,000+5000+4000 health, or 21k health (actually most PvP-centric toons tend to be closer to 25k). This means your unmitigated TTK on a PvP build is 7.1s (27s with hots up). This does not include other burst heals like burning embers, siphoning attacks/strikes, BoL, soothing spores, rally recasts, dark conversion/deal, twilight matriach heal, healing ward heals... I can go on.

Oblivion Glyphs are going to be fine. The sky isn't falling. Slot some heals or run with a healer in your group.

This is really disingenuous.

You're literally saying that rally/vigor are not able to outheal a player doing nothing but spamming heavy attacks on you and that after x seconds you will die unless there's additional sources of healing. There's no problem with that? Being forced on the defensive constantly by something as stupid as heavy attack spam?

What if it's 2 players? 6k DPS from light attack spam from 2 players? Being effective in PvP is now reduced to knowing how to spam light or heavy attacks and with the bar being set this low you're basically going to die almost any time the numbers in a fight arent in your favor.

Guess we should all just never leave the homebase without a pocket healer. Too bad 5 people spamming light attacks will probably also annihilate a 30k health healer build in 3 seconds after HotR hits

If you are being attacked by 5 people you really should be annihilated no matter how much health you have. The whole 1vX mentality is plaguing this games balancing. You are not supposed to kill 5 opponents alone. You should have a disadvantage if you are outnumbered. Stop balancing the game around the big-e-peen "I can solo 20 scrubs" guys.

You should have a Chance to win if you know how to Play the game and not lose against complete idiots who do nothing than spamming light/heavy attacks without leaving counterplay. you will never 1vX Players that are the same skill Level as you but you can win a 1vX against bad Players. But with stupid hard Counters numbers will always win and that is just bad desing. There is a disadvantage while fighting against 5 Players but that doesn't f*cking means that you should have no Chance to win because someone is using one single thing

Brutusmax1mus · August 2017

Oblivion is only an issue when out numbered, but then again, so is every other skill used against you when you're out numbered.

Zer0oo · August 2017

Royaji wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

Elyu wrote: »

The infused buff hasn't even made it to live servers and I've already encountered a mag dk using knight slayer, infused 1H with oblivion glyph. With heavy attack weaves on a 20k health target that works out as about 3400 damage per second (20000*0.09)+(2400*(2/3)) assuming oblivion glyh procs every 1.5 seconds with infused.

3,400 damage every second... I can deal far more than that with just about any decent build.

On your 20k health guy, that build has a 5.8 second TTK, assuming no heals. Vigor and Rally will heal ~1.5-2k per tick each, raising that TTK to 22.2 seconds.

Assuming you aren't using dumb food (by that I mean, you are using food with +health on it) , most players in PvP will have 12,000+5000+4000 health, or 21k health (actually most PvP-centric toons tend to be closer to 25k). This means your unmitigated TTK on a PvP build is 7.1s (27s with hots up). This does not include other burst heals like burning embers, siphoning attacks/strikes, BoL, soothing spores, rally recasts, dark conversion/deal, twilight matriach heal, healing ward heals... I can go on.

Oblivion Glyphs are going to be fine. The sky isn't falling. Slot some heals or run with a healer in your group.

This is really disingenuous.

You're literally saying that rally/vigor are not able to outheal a player doing nothing but spamming heavy attacks on you and that after x seconds you will die unless there's additional sources of healing. There's no problem with that? Being forced on the defensive constantly by something as stupid as heavy attack spam?

What if it's 2 players? 6k DPS from light attack spam from 2 players? Being effective in PvP is now reduced to knowing how to spam light or heavy attacks and with the bar being set this low you're basically going to die almost any time the numbers in a fight arent in your favor.

Guess we should all just never leave the homebase without a pocket healer. Too bad 5 people spamming light attacks will probably also annihilate a 30k health healer build in 3 seconds after HotR hits

If you are being attacked by 5 people you really should be annihilated no matter how much health you have. The whole 1vX mentality is plaguing this games balancing. You are not supposed to kill 5 opponents alone. You should have a disadvantage if you are outnumbered. Stop balancing the game around the big-e-peen "I can solo 20 scrubs" guys.

Wow just wow..........

Are you serious? Are you really saying skill shouldn't matter? Pvp should always be just a number game who wins?

TequilaFire · August 2017

Skill? You mean hopping up and down and rolling like a bowling ball while running around a tree?
Oh look, I got 10 guys to chase me I am 1vXing. lol

BohnT · August 2017

TequilaFire wrote: »

Skill? You mean hopping up and down and rolling like a bowling ball while running around a tree?

You mean avoiding damage, while making use of the surroundings and bursting one Opponent in a short Duration without being killed by his allies? I guess that is doable for every 8 year old and very easy for everyone with an IQ above toast

Valencer · August 2017

Royaji wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

Elyu wrote: »

The infused buff hasn't even made it to live servers and I've already encountered a mag dk using knight slayer, infused 1H with oblivion glyph. With heavy attack weaves on a 20k health target that works out as about 3400 damage per second (20000*0.09)+(2400*(2/3)) assuming oblivion glyh procs every 1.5 seconds with infused.

3,400 damage every second... I can deal far more than that with just about any decent build.

On your 20k health guy, that build has a 5.8 second TTK, assuming no heals. Vigor and Rally will heal ~1.5-2k per tick each, raising that TTK to 22.2 seconds.

Assuming you aren't using dumb food (by that I mean, you are using food with +health on it) , most players in PvP will have 12,000+5000+4000 health, or 21k health (actually most PvP-centric toons tend to be closer to 25k). This means your unmitigated TTK on a PvP build is 7.1s (27s with hots up). This does not include other burst heals like burning embers, siphoning attacks/strikes, BoL, soothing spores, rally recasts, dark conversion/deal, twilight matriach heal, healing ward heals... I can go on.

Oblivion Glyphs are going to be fine. The sky isn't falling. Slot some heals or run with a healer in your group.

This is really disingenuous.

You're literally saying that rally/vigor are not able to outheal a player doing nothing but spamming heavy attacks on you and that after x seconds you will die unless there's additional sources of healing. There's no problem with that? Being forced on the defensive constantly by something as stupid as heavy attack spam?

What if it's 2 players? 6k DPS from light attack spam from 2 players? Being effective in PvP is now reduced to knowing how to spam light or heavy attacks and with the bar being set this low you're basically going to die almost any time the numbers in a fight arent in your favor.

Guess we should all just never leave the homebase without a pocket healer. Too bad 5 people spamming light attacks will probably also annihilate a 30k health healer build in 3 seconds after HotR hits

If you are being attacked by 5 people you really should be annihilated no matter how much health you have. The whole 1vX mentality is plaguing this games balancing. You are not supposed to kill 5 opponents alone. You should have a disadvantage if you are outnumbered. Stop balancing the game around the big-e-peen "I can solo 20 scrubs" guys.

I don't give a crap about 1vX.

I do care about a fun, engaging and rewarding PvP experience. Do you really want to play a game where the outcome of a fight is always predetermined based on which side brings more numbers to said fight? That's already what it is 90% of the time. Don't let some stupid 1vX videos mislead you.

Brutusmax1mus · August 2017

Valencer wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

Elyu wrote: »

The infused buff hasn't even made it to live servers and I've already encountered a mag dk using knight slayer, infused 1H with oblivion glyph. With heavy attack weaves on a 20k health target that works out as about 3400 damage per second (20000*0.09)+(2400*(2/3)) assuming oblivion glyh procs every 1.5 seconds with infused.

3,400 damage every second... I can deal far more than that with just about any decent build.

On your 20k health guy, that build has a 5.8 second TTK, assuming no heals. Vigor and Rally will heal ~1.5-2k per tick each, raising that TTK to 22.2 seconds.

Assuming you aren't using dumb food (by that I mean, you are using food with +health on it) , most players in PvP will have 12,000+5000+4000 health, or 21k health (actually most PvP-centric toons tend to be closer to 25k). This means your unmitigated TTK on a PvP build is 7.1s (27s with hots up). This does not include other burst heals like burning embers, siphoning attacks/strikes, BoL, soothing spores, rally recasts, dark conversion/deal, twilight matriach heal, healing ward heals... I can go on.

Oblivion Glyphs are going to be fine. The sky isn't falling. Slot some heals or run with a healer in your group.

This is really disingenuous.

You're literally saying that rally/vigor are not able to outheal a player doing nothing but spamming heavy attacks on you and that after x seconds you will die unless there's additional sources of healing. There's no problem with that? Being forced on the defensive constantly by something as stupid as heavy attack spam?

What if it's 2 players? 6k DPS from light attack spam from 2 players? Being effective in PvP is now reduced to knowing how to spam light or heavy attacks and with the bar being set this low you're basically going to die almost any time the numbers in a fight arent in your favor.

Guess we should all just never leave the homebase without a pocket healer. Too bad 5 people spamming light attacks will probably also annihilate a 30k health healer build in 3 seconds after HotR hits

If you are being attacked by 5 people you really should be annihilated no matter how much health you have. The whole 1vX mentality is plaguing this games balancing. You are not supposed to kill 5 opponents alone. You should have a disadvantage if you are outnumbered. Stop balancing the game around the big-e-peen "I can solo 20 scrubs" guys.

I don't give a crap about 1vX.

I do care about a fun, engaging and rewarding PvP experience. Do you really want to play a game where the outcome of a fight is always predetermined based on which side brings more numbers to said fight? That's already what it is 90% of the time. Don't let some stupid 1vX videos mislead you.

I have gone head to head with torugs oblivion build, i also run 1 as of last night. If you can't handle the oblivion enchant 1v1 you're bad. Simple as that. In xv1 situations vs competent people, any enchant proc will hurt.

My fights i won vs competent players last night were won bc of multiple things, not just the oblivion enchant. Cc/ assassins +execute got me just as many i think.

You should see what prismatic/ fire does to vampires lol. Much stronger than oblivion especially vs medium/ heavy as they can crit.

Waffennacht · August 2017

Skill should determine the outcome of 1v1

Skill should influence 2v1

Balance issues (cloak) allow one player to defeat 5 - keep in mind the "5" are knowledgeable enough to run the meta, coordinate all attacks on a single player, and are effective at applying Oblivion Damage.

If these 5 players are doing all that, they aren't scrubs, and you should lose

DHale · August 2017

If you think the oblivion damage is killing you then if and when it get removed what excuse will you next use? Very much a learn to play situation.

Royaji · August 2017

BohnT wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

Elyu wrote: »

The infused buff hasn't even made it to live servers and I've already encountered a mag dk using knight slayer, infused 1H with oblivion glyph. With heavy attack weaves on a 20k health target that works out as about 3400 damage per second (20000*0.09)+(2400*(2/3)) assuming oblivion glyh procs every 1.5 seconds with infused.

3,400 damage every second... I can deal far more than that with just about any decent build.

On your 20k health guy, that build has a 5.8 second TTK, assuming no heals. Vigor and Rally will heal ~1.5-2k per tick each, raising that TTK to 22.2 seconds.

Assuming you aren't using dumb food (by that I mean, you are using food with +health on it) , most players in PvP will have 12,000+5000+4000 health, or 21k health (actually most PvP-centric toons tend to be closer to 25k). This means your unmitigated TTK on a PvP build is 7.1s (27s with hots up). This does not include other burst heals like burning embers, siphoning attacks/strikes, BoL, soothing spores, rally recasts, dark conversion/deal, twilight matriach heal, healing ward heals... I can go on.

Oblivion Glyphs are going to be fine. The sky isn't falling. Slot some heals or run with a healer in your group.

This is really disingenuous.

You're literally saying that rally/vigor are not able to outheal a player doing nothing but spamming heavy attacks on you and that after x seconds you will die unless there's additional sources of healing. There's no problem with that? Being forced on the defensive constantly by something as stupid as heavy attack spam?

What if it's 2 players? 6k DPS from light attack spam from 2 players? Being effective in PvP is now reduced to knowing how to spam light or heavy attacks and with the bar being set this low you're basically going to die almost any time the numbers in a fight arent in your favor.

Guess we should all just never leave the homebase without a pocket healer. Too bad 5 people spamming light attacks will probably also annihilate a 30k health healer build in 3 seconds after HotR hits

If you are being attacked by 5 people you really should be annihilated no matter how much health you have. The whole 1vX mentality is plaguing this games balancing. You are not supposed to kill 5 opponents alone. You should have a disadvantage if you are outnumbered. Stop balancing the game around the big-e-peen "I can solo 20 scrubs" guys.

You should have a Chance to win if you know how to Play the game and not lose against complete idiots who do nothing than spamming light/heavy attacks without leaving counterplay. you will never 1vX Players that are the same skill Level as you but you can win a 1vX against bad Players. But with stupid hard Counters numbers will always win and that is just bad desing. There is a disadvantage while fighting against 5 Players but that doesn't f*cking means that you should have no Chance to win because someone is using one single thing

Nope. Skill can help you win a 1v2. Maybe 1v3 if you are really good. Not a 1v5. You can't balance stuff under the premise of "if 5 people use it on one guy he will not be able to fight back." There is 5 people there. If they all hit you at once with any somewhat decent skill you will die. It's fine. This is how it is supposed to be.

I have a very specific issue with balancing around 1vX. Stuff that is considerd OP in 1vX can be absolutely fine in a 3v6, 4v7 or even 2v5. All the 1vXers ever achieved were nerfs to decent skills and playstyles.

BohnT · August 2017

Royaji wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

Elyu wrote: »

The infused buff hasn't even made it to live servers and I've already encountered a mag dk using knight slayer, infused 1H with oblivion glyph. With heavy attack weaves on a 20k health target that works out as about 3400 damage per second (20000*0.09)+(2400*(2/3)) assuming oblivion glyh procs every 1.5 seconds with infused.

3,400 damage every second... I can deal far more than that with just about any decent build.

On your 20k health guy, that build has a 5.8 second TTK, assuming no heals. Vigor and Rally will heal ~1.5-2k per tick each, raising that TTK to 22.2 seconds.

Assuming you aren't using dumb food (by that I mean, you are using food with +health on it) , most players in PvP will have 12,000+5000+4000 health, or 21k health (actually most PvP-centric toons tend to be closer to 25k). This means your unmitigated TTK on a PvP build is 7.1s (27s with hots up). This does not include other burst heals like burning embers, siphoning attacks/strikes, BoL, soothing spores, rally recasts, dark conversion/deal, twilight matriach heal, healing ward heals... I can go on.

Oblivion Glyphs are going to be fine. The sky isn't falling. Slot some heals or run with a healer in your group.

This is really disingenuous.

You're literally saying that rally/vigor are not able to outheal a player doing nothing but spamming heavy attacks on you and that after x seconds you will die unless there's additional sources of healing. There's no problem with that? Being forced on the defensive constantly by something as stupid as heavy attack spam?

What if it's 2 players? 6k DPS from light attack spam from 2 players? Being effective in PvP is now reduced to knowing how to spam light or heavy attacks and with the bar being set this low you're basically going to die almost any time the numbers in a fight arent in your favor.

Guess we should all just never leave the homebase without a pocket healer. Too bad 5 people spamming light attacks will probably also annihilate a 30k health healer build in 3 seconds after HotR hits

If you are being attacked by 5 people you really should be annihilated no matter how much health you have. The whole 1vX mentality is plaguing this games balancing. You are not supposed to kill 5 opponents alone. You should have a disadvantage if you are outnumbered. Stop balancing the game around the big-e-peen "I can solo 20 scrubs" guys.

You should have a Chance to win if you know how to Play the game and not lose against complete idiots who do nothing than spamming light/heavy attacks without leaving counterplay. you will never 1vX Players that are the same skill Level as you but you can win a 1vX against bad Players. But with stupid hard Counters numbers will always win and that is just bad desing. There is a disadvantage while fighting against 5 Players but that doesn't f*cking means that you should have no Chance to win because someone is using one single thing

Nope. Skill can help you win a 1v2. Maybe 1v3 if you are really good. Not a 1v5. You can't balance stuff under the premise of "if 5 people use it on one guy he will not be able to fight back." There is 5 people there. If they all hit you at once with any somewhat decent skill you will die. It's fine. This is how it is supposed to be.

I have a very specific issue with balancing around 1vX. Stuff that is considerd OP in 1vX can be absolutely fine in a 3v6, 4v7 or even 2v5. All the 1vXers ever achieved were nerfs to decent skills and playstyles.

The Problem it's a no brainer, just like procs, it could be 5 bots spamming light attacks and they'll kill a much better Player without giving him any Chance to defend.
It is unavoidable, unmitigateble instant damage with low cooldown that can be applied at range.
If 5 People are attacking me, they still have to decide which skill they use meaning some will make mistakes by using 2 cc's on me reducing the opponents i eat damage from to 3, maybe some spam wrecking blow which i can easily avoid, 1vX doesn't work agaisnt Things which simply happen without any Counter Play.

The best chess Player could outplay any other one but when someone shoots his face while he's playing against 4 others he'll lose no matter how bad his Opponent was

Gothren · August 2017

I hope the devs thought this through. sorc pets are already pretty squisy. add infused and turugs oblivion meta and pet builds will be decimated. its one thing to counter oblivion with more HOT, but how exactly is a summoner supposed to deal with multiple procs every second against pets.

Zer0oo · August 2017

Royaji wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

Elyu wrote: »

The infused buff hasn't even made it to live servers and I've already encountered a mag dk using knight slayer, infused 1H with oblivion glyph. With heavy attack weaves on a 20k health target that works out as about 3400 damage per second (20000*0.09)+(2400*(2/3)) assuming oblivion glyh procs every 1.5 seconds with infused.

3,400 damage every second... I can deal far more than that with just about any decent build.

On your 20k health guy, that build has a 5.8 second TTK, assuming no heals. Vigor and Rally will heal ~1.5-2k per tick each, raising that TTK to 22.2 seconds.

Assuming you aren't using dumb food (by that I mean, you are using food with +health on it) , most players in PvP will have 12,000+5000+4000 health, or 21k health (actually most PvP-centric toons tend to be closer to 25k). This means your unmitigated TTK on a PvP build is 7.1s (27s with hots up). This does not include other burst heals like burning embers, siphoning attacks/strikes, BoL, soothing spores, rally recasts, dark conversion/deal, twilight matriach heal, healing ward heals... I can go on.

Oblivion Glyphs are going to be fine. The sky isn't falling. Slot some heals or run with a healer in your group.

This is really disingenuous.

You're literally saying that rally/vigor are not able to outheal a player doing nothing but spamming heavy attacks on you and that after x seconds you will die unless there's additional sources of healing. There's no problem with that? Being forced on the defensive constantly by something as stupid as heavy attack spam?

What if it's 2 players? 6k DPS from light attack spam from 2 players? Being effective in PvP is now reduced to knowing how to spam light or heavy attacks and with the bar being set this low you're basically going to die almost any time the numbers in a fight arent in your favor.

Guess we should all just never leave the homebase without a pocket healer. Too bad 5 people spamming light attacks will probably also annihilate a 30k health healer build in 3 seconds after HotR hits

If you are being attacked by 5 people you really should be annihilated no matter how much health you have. The whole 1vX mentality is plaguing this games balancing. You are not supposed to kill 5 opponents alone. You should have a disadvantage if you are outnumbered. Stop balancing the game around the big-e-peen "I can solo 20 scrubs" guys.

You should have a Chance to win if you know how to Play the game and not lose against complete idiots who do nothing than spamming light/heavy attacks without leaving counterplay. you will never 1vX Players that are the same skill Level as you but you can win a 1vX against bad Players. But with stupid hard Counters numbers will always win and that is just bad desing. There is a disadvantage while fighting against 5 Players but that doesn't f*cking means that you should have no Chance to win because someone is using one single thing

Nope. Skill can help you win a 1v2. Maybe 1v3 if you are really good. Not a 1v5. You can't balance stuff under the premise of "if 5 people use it on one guy he will not be able to fight back." There is 5 people there. If they all hit you at once with any somewhat decent skill you will die. It's fine. This is how it is supposed to be.

I have a very specific issue with balancing around 1vX. Stuff that is considerd OP in 1vX can be absolutely fine in a 3v6, 4v7 or even 2v5. All the 1vXers ever achieved were nerfs to decent skills and playstyles.

It is NOT balanced. Not in a 1v1, 1vX, nor in a a small grp vs small grp, it is only balanced in a 20+vs 20+ fight. But hey you can now kill player without having any skill and i think that is what you want just easy kills...