Maxim resistance is at 33.2k...pls nerf the skills too !

Mappy2kx · August 2017

pardon my French !

max_only · August 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Since your response was so thorough and elegant, I'll give you three examples.

Let's take two players, one in full plate, the other in a nylon jump suit.
Hit each with a sledge hammer.

Hit each with about 2000 volts.

Hit each with a blast from a flamethrower

I'll save you the pain and not even begin to mention how gear would affect mobility.

Just trying to parse this analogy is giving me "the pain".

paulsimonps wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Correct me if i'm completely off...but atm you just need to wear heavy armor, use defensive weapons and armor buff and you are at ~30k resist, isn't it? Use Lord warden and you are at armor cap...don't see where you have to "invest a lot" ....

(if it's not enough...use some CP...)

7 Heavy Armor + Defending + Major Ward/Resolve gives you 25876 resistance. Lord Warden gets you up to 29746.

Is Lord Warden better than Mighty Chudan?

Also I am a tank and So many falsehoods and fundamental misunderstandings in this thread on these points imho
1. Light armor passive isn't just for sorcerers
2. We tanks need the dps to be good at damaging because this game doesn't solely revolve around pvp
3. Elder scrolls heavy armor has always been imbued with magical properties, this isn't the Middle Ages on Earth. This is 2nd era Nirn.

Feanor · August 2017

I still don't understand why Heavy Armour needs the Wrath passive.

PathwayM · August 2017

gepe87 wrote: »

Everyday people ask for nerfs... I'm a new player, I die and struggle against some players...I'm just learning to play and don't ask nerfs!

That is because a huge portion of players think they are some daedric prince's gift to the game and oblivion forbid they suck it up and adapt...

You sir have earned an agree!

PathwayM · August 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Mappy2kx wrote: »

Maxim resistance is at 33.2k...so that is 50% reduction.Dear ZOS , when you set this limit...especaly for us..the tanks...why u didnt set a limit for Armour penetretion too?ORRR...like you doing now..with the Sharpend , cut all the skill who have Phys and Mag penetration in half...like Sorcs passive from light armour..like Poison breath from Dragon knight,,,etc ! ?where the hell is the logic in your actions ?! ty !

First of all, the resistance cap is 33,1k not 33,2. Second, there is no cap for penetration cause it would take A LOT to reach those kinds of numbers in terms of penetration.

4884+5280+1320+2530+5160+4000+5280=28454

Those are numbers on live, that is light armor passive, Major and Minor Breach, Infused+Torugs pact 5p+crusher, 2h Sharpened, 100p into spell erosion and 5p spinners. That is all you can get in terms of penetration for magicka on live server.

Sharpened is getting nerfed, spinners is getting nerfed, and you would be nerfing yourself going that hard into spell erosion. Minor Breach is almost impossible to get unless you are a templar using a certain stamina ability or a poison.

Seeing how much effort needs to be put into it, I think it seems pretty balanced. Cause no one is gonna do this. You lose out so much in spell damage and max magicka and spell crit that its just not worth it. And to be fair, you are talking about tanks right, and this is a PvP question since it has to do with penetration vs resistance/mitigation. A tank character can get mitigation that is not resistance that cannot be penetrated with anything but oblivion damage. Its really easy to get and makes you tanky as hell.

Maxing out this heavy into one stat always leaves you hanging in another. There is a trade of for everything. Major and Minor Fracture and Breach do not need a debuff.

I mean if you really wanted to you could stack resistance over the cap and you would be fine. You would be surprised at how extremely easy that is to do compared to getting high penetration. I was testing some penetration on the PTS with my wife and I gave her a set up that gave her over 50k resistance. Even if you had that 28k penetration she would still be close to the cap with that.

Risk vs Reward, Trade away what you don't want for what you want. This does not need changed.

You forgot alkosh

paulsimonps · August 2017

PathwayM wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Mappy2kx wrote: »

Maxim resistance is at 33.2k...so that is 50% reduction.Dear ZOS , when you set this limit...especaly for us..the tanks...why u didnt set a limit for Armour penetretion too?ORRR...like you doing now..with the Sharpend , cut all the skill who have Phys and Mag penetration in half...like Sorcs passive from light armour..like Poison breath from Dragon knight,,,etc ! ?where the hell is the logic in your actions ?! ty !

First of all, the resistance cap is 33,1k not 33,2. Second, there is no cap for penetration cause it would take A LOT to reach those kinds of numbers in terms of penetration.

4884+5280+1320+2530+5160+4000+5280=28454

Those are numbers on live, that is light armor passive, Major and Minor Breach, Infused+Torugs pact 5p+crusher, 2h Sharpened, 100p into spell erosion and 5p spinners. That is all you can get in terms of penetration for magicka on live server.

Sharpened is getting nerfed, spinners is getting nerfed, and you would be nerfing yourself going that hard into spell erosion. Minor Breach is almost impossible to get unless you are a templar using a certain stamina ability or a poison.

Seeing how much effort needs to be put into it, I think it seems pretty balanced. Cause no one is gonna do this. You lose out so much in spell damage and max magicka and spell crit that its just not worth it. And to be fair, you are talking about tanks right, and this is a PvP question since it has to do with penetration vs resistance/mitigation. A tank character can get mitigation that is not resistance that cannot be penetrated with anything but oblivion damage. Its really easy to get and makes you tanky as hell.

Maxing out this heavy into one stat always leaves you hanging in another. There is a trade of for everything. Major and Minor Fracture and Breach do not need a debuff.

I mean if you really wanted to you could stack resistance over the cap and you would be fine. You would be surprised at how extremely easy that is to do compared to getting high penetration. I was testing some penetration on the PTS with my wife and I gave her a set up that gave her over 50k resistance. Even if you had that 28k penetration she would still be close to the cap with that.

Risk vs Reward, Trade away what you don't want for what you want. This does not need changed.

You forgot alkosh

Alkosh in PvP? Also I was trying to count things one person could have on their own.

max_only wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Since your response was so thorough and elegant, I'll give you three examples.

Let's take two players, one in full plate, the other in a nylon jump suit.
Hit each with a sledge hammer.

Hit each with about 2000 volts.

Hit each with a blast from a flamethrower

I'll save you the pain and not even begin to mention how gear would affect mobility.

Just trying to parse this analogy is giving me "the pain".

paulsimonps wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Correct me if i'm completely off...but atm you just need to wear heavy armor, use defensive weapons and armor buff and you are at ~30k resist, isn't it? Use Lord warden and you are at armor cap...don't see where you have to "invest a lot" ....

(if it's not enough...use some CP...)

7 Heavy Armor + Defending + Major Ward/Resolve gives you 25876 resistance. Lord Warden gets you up to 29746.

Is Lord Warden better than Mighty Chudan?

Also I am a tank and So many falsehoods and fundamental misunderstandings in this thread on these points imho
1. Light armor passive isn't just for sorcerers
2. We tanks need the dps to be good at damaging because this game doesn't solely revolve around pvp
3. Elder scrolls heavy armor has always been imbued with magical properties, this isn't the Middle Ages on Earth. This is 2nd era Nirn.

I would say that Lord Warden is better, especially with the buff it is getting. Lord Warden gives the resistance to not only you but any ally in the area. As well you can get the buff Mighty Chudan gives from other sources. So you can have its buff and Lord Warden. But of course that requires that you slot a skill for it or have a Warden slot that skill for you. Either way, I would go Warden over Chudan.

Mappy2kx · August 2017

soo...after so many comments, where are the tanks in this game? they dont have an opinion ?

ooo..maybe cos are none !

Asardes · August 2017

2p Chudan gives a buff obtainable by every class trough skills. Sure, if you want to max out your resistance you can go 1p Chudan 1p Pirate Skeleton, but it won't help you much.

paulsimonps · August 2017

Mappy2kx wrote: »

soo...after so many comments, where are the tanks in this game? they dont have an opinion ? ooo..maybe cos are none !

You have had several tanks post in this thread, me included. I play a tank 95% of the time, in both PvP and PvE.

Lexxypwns · August 2017

Teridaxus wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Mappy2kx wrote: »

Maxim resistance is at 33.2k...so that is 50% reduction.Dear ZOS , when you set this limit...especaly for us..the tanks...why u didnt set a limit for Armour penetretion too?ORRR...like you doing now..with the Sharpend , cut all the skill who have Phys and Mag penetration in half...like Sorcs passive from light armour..like Poison breath from Dragon knight,,,etc ! ?where the hell is the logic in your actions ?! ty !

I really like that part

btw. should they also cut YOUR penetration with ransack by half?

Full heavy (is and) should be great against physical damage, but should be weak against magical. Pen from LA is part of the necessary counter to heavy armor, as it should be.

We had this in the first of year of eso.
Everyone and their grandmother was a light wearing mag dk while nb were free ap, sorc were waiting in the shadows for dk nerfs and templars were/are/will be healers.

NB was free AP when sap increased damage based on number of players hit and they could have bats while standing in their own veil? Lol, no sir. There were quite a lot of very capable NBs and quite a few trash ones, but NB was as simple as jump into Zerg, hold block, sap, veil, steel tornado spam, bats, repeat.

OC_Justice · August 2017

Tank here.

Change what you will, I will adapt.

RouDeR · August 2017

Asardes wrote: »

If you end up stacking 33K+ resistance you will most likely be useless: you will do no damage, you will not be able to sustain even healing and other basic function. Nobody bothers stacking that much in PvE, let alone PvP. In fact stacking resistance is by far the least efficient way of mitigating damage: blocking, shielding, roll dodging or running a skill or set that give evasion are all more efficient.

The "nerf things because I can't win" mentality permeates a large portion of the posts on this forum. Only a handful of topics are actually thoughtful and helpful. If only people used their brains before bothering to write ...

Most of my pvp tanks have around 36-40k resistances and i can knock the teeth out of the 80% of the players . The other 20% will sucsesfuly run away from me cuz i sucrafice mobility for tankiness and decent damage . If u believe that high resists means less healing and damage output than u have never built decent pvp tank.

Asardes · August 2017

I actually disliked playing as tank the first day I set foot in Cyrodiil because I couldn't kill people fast enough so I swapped to MA almost at once. Never looked back. Recently I also got fed up with PvE tanking so I made my DK into a DD. Tanking gear is in long time storage. I'll probably never tank again. 2 years wasted doing that has bored me to death, to the point I actually started getting bad at it. Long things short, if it doesn't have 7K+ effective WD/SD, 50%+ crit and 1.5K recovery it ain't worth playing.

kojou · August 2017

I play a tank in PvE and a tanky DK in PvP and I am lost...

In PvP my strategy is to stack enough health and resistance to not get mowed over then add damage, so I can actually kill something.

In PvE you can do pretty much all content with much less resistance than cap and use gear that supports your group.

I tend to run more balanced tanks and not stack too much into anything, but maybe I am missing something?

paulsimonps · August 2017

Asardes wrote: »

I actually disliked playing as tank the first day I set foot in Cyrodiil because I couldn't kill people fast enough so I swapped to MA almost at once. Never looked back. Recently I also got fed up with PvE tanking so I made my DK into a DD. Tanking gear is in long time storage. I'll probably never tank again. 2 years wasted doing that has bored me to death, to the point I actually started getting bad at it. Long things short, if it doesn't have 7K+ effective WD/SD, 50%+ crit and 1.5K recovery it ain't worth playing.

Knight Slayer+Infused Oblivion and Reactive armor and I can be tanky and deal damage

But whatever people have fun with.

Mappy2kx · August 2017

I am a dk too ...and is soo boring as a tank... Takes ages to kill someone , if im lucky to survive more than 10 seconds !!! Bang bang bang ,,, thats it ! Dead ! GG zos !

( rubish pvp !

paulsimonps · August 2017

Mappy2kx wrote: »

I am a dk too ...and is soo boring as a tank... Takes ages to kill someone , if im lucky to survive more than 10 seconds !!! Bang bang bang ,,, thats it ! Dead ! GG zos ! ( rubish pvp !

I went 7K 1D 17A with over 500k damage on a Team deathmatch in battlegrounds on a tank.That is not bad. Its all about how you build the tank and what type of tank you want to play in PvP. Tanks are not Rubish in PvP, just got to know how to use them. And there is more to them then just being tanks that can take and or deal damage. Buffs, debuffs, crownd control or heals are also things tanks can provide in group fights in PvP. Though in battle grounds they will need to be able to do some type of damage too.

Asardes · August 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

I actually disliked playing as tank the first day I set foot in Cyrodiil because I couldn't kill people fast enough so I swapped to MA almost at once. Never looked back. Recently I also got fed up with PvE tanking so I made my DK into a DD. Tanking gear is in long time storage. I'll probably never tank again. 2 years wasted doing that has bored me to death, to the point I actually started getting bad at it. Long things short, if it doesn't have 7K+ effective WD/SD, 50%+ crit and 1.5K recovery it ain't worth playing.

Knight Slayer+Infused Oblivion and Reactive armor and I can be tanky and deal damage But whatever people have fun with.

I like to deal lethal damage in 5s or less, until the rest of the zerg comes over. If a fight drags on for more than 10s I simply pick another target. Tanks that block then cast bat swarm and sorcs that just streak and kite or resource tower merry-go-rounds don't interest me the slightest, because such setups are just potato traps. I can say I play my stamDK even more aggressively than my stamNB, it's basically lethal arrow or heavy attack into poison injection, crit charge or take flight into heavy attack into execute with some venom claw in between. I don't care if I die a lot if I still manage to kill even more people.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Mappy2kx wrote: »

Maxim resistance is at 33.2k...so that is 50% reduction.Dear ZOS , when you set this limit...especaly for us..the tanks...why u didnt set a limit for Armour penetretion too?ORRR...like you doing now..with the Sharpend , cut all the skill who have Phys and Mag penetration in half...like Sorcs passive from light armour..like Poison breath from Dragon knight,,,etc ! ?where the hell is the logic in your actions ?! ty !

I really like that part

btw. should they also cut YOUR penetration with ransack by half?

Indeed. I'm good with that change, just as soon as the lazy implementation of +1 point in armor = +1 point in spell resist goes away.

Full heavy (is and) should be great against physical damage, but should be weak against magical. Pen from LA is part of the necessary counter to heavy armor, as it should be.

Umm. No. Heavy should provide solid resistance for both types of damage. There is no logic that the armor designed mostly with tanking in mind should be weak to anything.

Further, the spell pen in LA isn't exactly a tank buster. Ya, it helps, if helps against all armor types.

Just saw the insightful example above. Nylon jump suit armor now?

Solid, yes. Best, not necessarily.

The logic is present in every standalone TES game - for every benefit, there was a negative to offset it. In the case of HA, it generally meant increased physical resist, lower mobility (due to weight), and some spell resist, though not as good as LA. LA had the opposite set of benefits/downsides.

Regarding the example, it's an analogy ~ the closest real world equivalent I could devise that would effectively mimic "light armor." I'd have come up with something better, save the inability to provide arcane resistance in a real world scenario. Being a smart individual , I'm sure you already realized this.

Clearly the sledgehammer to the chest is going to hurt in the LA scenario, with the remaining two being mitigated better than the HA equivalent.

Changing the benefit/detriment of each armor type would promote more diversity, as it would require thought as to what you would wear in a given scenario, vice giving best mitigation all around for single armor type.

Agreed, the pen isn't a tank buster, but taking that away, as recommended above, would make LA even less useful than it is now.

I say again, the 1:1 implementation is both uninspired and lazy implementation.