Best in slot gear is craftable and farmable?

idk · August 2017

code65536 wrote: »

LOL. And you think running dungeons and trials in normal mode is any more of a challenge or badge of skill?

Gear was never the main incentive for running vet content. People do it for the fun, challenge, and personal improvement. If you're doing it just to grind gear, then you need to reevaluate why you even play this game.

This comment states it perfectly. So many that raid already have the gear. They continue raiding because they enjoy it work to improve. It is the same in any area of the game. Improving on speed and scores and helping others clear the trials or dungeons are the reasons many of us continue to raid.

idk · August 2017

Rungar wrote: »

the problem is that this game should never of had trials but extreme dungeons instead with variable headcounts all 6 and under.

at least they learned from DAOC not to put the best stuff in them. Putting the best gear behind a raid wall is destruction for a game like elder scrolls which has a large pvp/casual component.

most people who play this game are elder scrolls fans who are used to a single player adventure and its a big stretch to get them to raid, which is why , I imagine, few do.

Fortunately Zos has trials requiring large groups. Not only is it common and expected with a modern MMO but also allows for more complex fight designs. A large portion of players in this game enjoy or desire to run and clear the trials. It is irrelevant if they also like to do solo questing as well.

Further, as others have stated, raiders do not raid for gear but because they enjoy it. They quickly get any gear in the trial so it is irrelevant where the gear is obtained from. Besides, whether or now the trial gear is BiS next week on live or not, it will become BiS again at some point.

STEVIL · August 2017

Glamdring wrote: »

Took me 14 months to get 9 traits in all crafts

of course, julianos only takes six traits to craft, right?

Xvorg · August 2017

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

gameshark79 wrote: »

So you'd rather your time invested in the game mean nothing? I mean you might as well make the game pay to win. Just allow me to buy want I want to become the best. That's not why I play MMO's and do raids. I want to collect gear from the hardest trial to prepare me for the next one, not just be given it.

I've invested a lot of my time in the game crafting, why should it be less relevant?

Anyway it is a great way to buff economy

The amount of time actually actively spent researching is nothing compared to drop sets. by that notion alone
I think they should perform at least 50% better than crafted sets.

So, you say it is harder to get a full gold set of scathing than get a full gold set of TBS? Consider Nirn research and the 40 gold tempers/resin/tannins you need.

If you have 2 chars at level 1, one a grinder and the other a crafter, who do you think will get their CP 160 gold sets faster? Grinders just need their offesive skills, while crafters need offensive and crafting skills

radiostar · August 2017

Kinda moot since you always have to use dropped or farmed jewelry. When we can make either rings or necklaces or both, I'll be comboing my crappy crafteds

Onefrkncrzypope · August 2017

Ever heard or carrot and stick. Look at what is rewarding in doing the content as carrots. Let's use the example vet Hel Ra. It's an intro vet trial that is easily pugged. What are the original carrots? Reward for weekly( gold stuff from all trials), VO IA gear(old BiS), a title. Now the weekly rewards are nerfed. BiS is just crafted. The only real reason to complete a vet trial is skin or title. It's even worse for normal trials.

Tell me how without any real rewards can some one new get into trials that aren't running. This also goes for dungeons. Monster helms are even going the way of the dinosaur... How is this good. Is ZoS coming out with enough content to keep things fresh no. No carrots no players. Every other game has this... If there is no want for old group content no one will run them. It follows exactly what you say. People run what they want.. what want is there in any three year dungeon or year old trial?

MLGProPlayer · August 2017

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Ever heard or carrot and stick. Look at what is rewarding in doing the content as carrots. Let's use the example vet Hel Ra. It's an intro vet trial that is easily pugged. What are the original carrots? Reward for weekly( gold stuff from all trials), VO IA gear(old BiS), a title. Now the weekly rewards are nerfed. BiS is just crafted. The only real reason to complete a vet trial is skin or title. It's even worse for normal trials.

Tell me how without any real rewards can some one new get into trials that aren't running. This also goes for dungeons. Monster helms are even going the way of the dinosaur... How is this good. Is ZoS coming out with enough content to keep things fresh no. No carrots no players. Every other game has this... If there is no want for old group content no one will run them. It follows exactly what you say. People run what they want.. what want is there in any three year dungeon or year old trial?

Nobody runs vet trials for gear (you get your jewellery after a few runs). People run them to get on leader boards.

I know very few people who even run normal trials for gear. You can get a 5pc divines set after just a handful of runs. Most people run normals to prepare for vet.

Onefrkncrzypope · August 2017

So on ps4, where the leaderboard no longer fill up because why?

Rungar · August 2017

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

So on ps4, where the leaderboard no longer fill up because why?

your logic is broken. This is a pvp/dungeon running/crafting game with a handful of trial content thrown in and your logic is to put all the best gear behind the one activity that most of these people wont enjoy completing.

even at 12 man there's too much waiting around. The Achilles heel of all raiding. This logic destroyed DAOC because the developers didn't understand their players.

they understand now and thankfully ZOS understands which is why the game is as it is.

the other night I was in Craglorn and I swear it took almost 3 hours for a raid group constantly spamming zone chat doing a normal trial to find a tank. One tank. Not sure they ever did find one player to do that.

Your in the wrong game.

Onefrkncrzypope · August 2017

Rungar wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

So on ps4, where the leaderboard no longer fill up because why?

your logic is broken. This is a pvp/dungeon running/crafting game with a handful of trial content thrown in and your logic is to put all the best gear behind the one activity that most of these people wont enjoy completing.

even at 12 man there's too much waiting around. The Achilles heel of all raiding. This logic destroyed DAOC because the developers didn't understand their players.

they understand now and thankfully ZOS understands which is why the game is as it is.

the other night I was in Craglorn and I swear it took almost 3 hours for a raid group constantly spamming zone chat doing a normal trial to find a tank. One tank. Not sure they ever did find one player to do that.

Your in the wrong game.

Nope it isn't to put all behind the hardest content. Never was my opinion. Juliano's is a crafted set and a great introductry set to get for a new player. But having that set be the BiS kills a main drive for replay of the content we have. I don't want to lock the only gear behind vMoL or anything. BSW, Netches, and monster helms are dungeon content. VO, IA, and TFS are obtainable in normal trials. Most of these sets are now being shelved for the set most of mag dps started with. So that group that struggled to find a tank will struggle to find a tank and dps because after first completion there isn't any reason to run again. I was just voicing my opinion on the subject. It won't change anything. You get what you seem to want but we will see what happens. I want to be wrong

Rungar · August 2017

the gear is always changing in this game there is massive variety and its made in a way that you basically use 2-4 concurrent sets to build your player. a crafted set often, a dropped set from anywhere, maybe a monster set from the dungeons, and maybe a maelstrom or master weapon.

your looking for further progression when the game is about set synergy.

IcyDeadPeople · August 2017

gameshark79 wrote: »

Julianos and mother's sorrow is going to be best in slot for magicka? So all I have to do to become a great player is make some gear and farm for a day? Where's the incentive to do trials or dungeons? Is this how you want your game to be?

If you don't enjoy doing trials or dungeons, how does the experience improve in any way if you have to do the same one over and over for months?

If you do enjoy enjoy them, then your incentive is to have fun.

Caligamy_ESO · August 2017

No work or effort? I am pretty sure it took me 4-5 months to be able to make Julianos.. I am guessing OP has not mastered traits and realized how much worse of a grind it is than speed running some dungeon on normal for blue drops.

Also this is a game, for enjoyment and entertainment. Not a damn job.

Dantaria · August 2017

I actually agree with the OP. I mean, come on...

I have cleared vMoL in Julianos. I have cleared vHoF in Julianos.

I know all this jazz about "skill matters much more than gear", I went to end-game scene and I earned my skins by showing that I have decent hands and knowledge of the game. But... for real now?

I heard a lot goodnatured laughs about my Julianos, I laughed myself. I'm too lazy to grind, I would rather level an alt. It was a limitation I had to accept. I had to accept that I wasn't invited to vHoF HM clear and that was 100% fine - I was dedicated to the game, but not that dedicated.

And Julianos is now BiS. Really. Really.

Look here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/365185/magicka-set-bonus-comparison-math#latest

Now, tell me if I'm wrong, but... With nerfs to proc-sets Monster Sets in PvE (Ilambris, Grothgarr, etc) are now subpar? Minor Slayer is now subpar? The BiS in new world is Julianos + Mother Sorrow/Spinner + 1 piece Ilambris?

So what is the point of the content?

Yes, fun. Yes, progression. But, @code65536 et al, progression includes gear. Sure you go into vTrial to challenge yourself, out of curiousity, to see content you haven't seen... But also to improve your stats.

Like, come on. It was nice, to replace Willpower with Moondancer (even blue Moondancer) and watch your numbers on skele increase. It really was nice.

And now it's irrelevant. Monster sets? Useless. Minor Slayer? Useless. Everything you actually have to earn - useless.

Now when you go to vTrial, you only need to get used to it. You have your "skele parse", you only need to learn to apply it to the boss efficiently. Your base DPS... nah. You had BiS from the start. And this is... honestly sad.

The gap between crafted/farmed-in-overworld gear and "Trial BiS" should never be large enough to not allow people to clear the content. Can the group in Julianos + Willpower clear vMoL? Sure they can. Can the group with Necropotence + Moondancer clear vMoL? Sure, and they will have it easier and they also will have higher score.

That's actually the perfect world, imo. We had the perfect world. Now... What the heck?

We needed token system. Not for Monster Sets and Minor Slayer to become useless.

Come on. Nerf vMA weapons next. Actually, remove them from the game. If it's useless or doesn't exist, noone complains, right?

Bobby_V_Rockit · August 2017

Zedrian wrote: »

Trials gear no longer means anything, as so many players unfortunately spent more time exploiting vMOL than ever attempting it.

Wait, what?! HOW?! I saw nothing of this evil in the potes!

MLGProPlayer · August 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

I actually agree with the OP. I mean, come on...

I have cleared vMoL in Julianos. I have cleared vHoF in Julianos.

I know all this jazz about "skill matters much more than gear", I went to end-game scene and I earned my skins by showing that I have decent hands and knowledge of the game. But... for real now?

I heard a lot goodnatured laughs about my Julianos, I laughed myself. I'm too lazy to grind, I would rather level an alt. It was a limitation I had to accept. I had to accept that I wasn't invited to vHoF HM clear and that was 100% fine - I was dedicated to the game, but not that dedicated.

And Julianos is now BiS. Really. Really.

Look here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/365185/magicka-set-bonus-comparison-math#latest

Now, tell me if I'm wrong, but... With nerfs to proc-sets Monster Sets in PvE (Ilambris, Grothgarr, etc) are now subpar? Minor Slayer is now subpar? The BiS in new world is Julianos + Mother Sorrow/Spinner + 1 piece Ilambris?

So what is the point of the content?

Yes, fun. Yes, progression. But, @code65536 et al, progression includes gear. Sure you go into vTrial to challenge yourself, out of curiousity, to see content you haven't seen... But also to improve your stats.

Like, come on. It was nice, to replace Willpower with Moondancer (even blue Moondancer) and watch your numbers on skele increase. It really was nice.

And now it's irrelevant. Monster sets? Useless. Minor Slayer? Useless. Everything you actually have to earn - useless.

Now when you go to vTrial, you only need to get used to it. You have your "skele parse", you only need to learn to apply it to the boss efficiently. Your base DPS... nah. You had BiS from the start. And this is... honestly sad.

The gap between crafted/farmed-in-overworld gear and "Trial BiS" should never be large enough to not allow people to clear the content. Can the group in Julianos + Willpower clear vMoL? Sure they can. Can the group with Necropotence + Moondancer clear vMoL? Sure, and they will have it easier and they also will have higher score.

That's actually the perfect world, imo. We had the perfect world. Now... What the heck?

We needed token system. Not for Monster Sets and Minor Slayer to become useless.

Come on. Nerf vMA weapons next. Actually, remove them from the game. If it's useless or doesn't exist, noone complains, right?

You act like trial gear was somehow difficult to obtain. Anyone could farm that *** on normal difficulty.

The only pieces you had to actually work for were the gold jewelry.

Septimus_Magna · August 2017

The concept of one BiS setup is slowly fading and people have a hard time dealing with it.

Single target skele parse with Infused weapons and shock/fire enchants looks really strong. The thing is, infused will hurt your AOE dps a lot. There's also the matter of applying concussion/buring too often in a group. So if someone is running this setup it wont be BiS for the next person. They may do more dps with precise on the frontbar and infused with sd/wd enchant on the backbar for example.

With stam builds the BiS setup was already situational due to similar sets not stacking or over-penetrating the target. Now the same thing happens with magicka builds which is a good thing.

The main problem is that all the desirable magicka sets are easy to get. I personally like to work towards getting the right gear and not craft/buy it within an hour when HotR goes live.

Dantaria · August 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You act like trial gear was somehow difficult to obtain. Anyone could farm that *** on normal difficulty.

The only pieces you had to actually work for were the gold jewelry.

Yeah, normal trials are ez-pz. But at least you had to set foot there. And yeah - if someone had golden or epic jewellry, you knew that they knew some [snip]

Also think about this. If the current prognosis is right and BiS is 5 + 5 + 1 monster set piece, you can have BiS without setting foot in vet dungeon. The person with BiS actually can avoid all vet and then come to you asking for vTrial run.

Learning curve in ESO s**ks as it is. Yeah, let's make it non-existant

[edited for profanity bypass]