Jciampi wrote: »

Was running a 4 man dungeon on normal, a PUG. The healer warps in. He is a sorc. I don't give a flying poo. As long as he can keep my tank healed I'm fine with that. One of the DPS though, "he ain't no healer I ain't gonna play with no dumb sorc healer. Boot him or I don't play". This went on for the next 20 min. Him constantly asking to boot the healer, and me saying no. Everytime i decline the boot, another prompt comes up asking to kick again. Finally after 20 min he just quit on his own and we finished the boss. Like dude, I get it, for a trial you want right specs. But this is a 4 man dungeon... On normal... If you even really need a healer and you're above cp160, then we gotta talk.

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Jciampi wrote: »

Was running a 4 man dungeon on normal, a PUG. The healer warps in. He is a sorc. I don't give a flying poo. As long as he can keep my tank healed I'm fine with that. One of the DPS though, "he ain't no healer I ain't gonna play with no dumb sorc healer. Boot him or I don't play". This went on for the next 20 min. Him constantly asking to boot the healer, and me saying no. Everytime i decline the boot, another prompt comes up asking to kick again. Finally after 20 min he just quit on his own and we finished the boss. Like dude, I get it, for a trial you want right specs. But this is a 4 man dungeon... On normal... If you even really need a healer and you're above cp160, then we gotta talk.

Just to clarify, I DO NOT condone this type of behavior (in normal dungeons ?? )

This is disgraceful.

The hardest 4 man content in the game does not even require a healer if you're halfway competent and can keep yourself alive and away from damage.

I want to kick people all the time, but only in 2 main scenarios:

1) They're low cp and it's a vet dlc dungeon

2) They've proven they cannot fulfill the role and are severely hurting the group

Then I want to kick them right away.

Normal dungeons are so easy it will never be necessary to kick someone, unless the entire group is under level 50, or something. I'm sure lowbies have separate things they argue over altogether.

One of my guilds did a vet aa run with no healer. We did just fine lol. Any player that is bad enough to directly,harm the group gets booted. If it's multiple people I usually just leave.

Blanco wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Belyar wrote: »

I wanted to make a sorc healer, guess I won't

Good. They're garbage

One less sorc healer = a good thing.

Roll templar or warden for heals.

Fun fact about a sorc healer: you can make a magsorc dps and use it as a healer if you want, just morph the twilight to matriarch instead of tormentor.

Then, when you're done healing, go back to OP magsorc dps.

Unlocking resto staff abilities does not precludes using the toon for dps.
Twilight Tormentor is not needed for endgame dps.
Getting orbs does not make any difference in your dps spec.
Aggressive Horn does not precludes the acquisition of a different dps ulti, and power stone makes it easier to get it faster.

Therefore Sorc healer = Sorc dps.

Sorc dps = one of the best dps class in the game atm.

Therefore no, a sorc healer is not garbage, as it's basically a sorc dps used as healer.

Go make a mag sorc, and use it to heal if you need to, they're ok, and you can turn it into a dps at the drop of a dime.

As long as you don't need to heal vet trials, it really doesn't matter what kind of healer you play.

I already do this. It is in fact garbage. lol

You're forgetting one important detail.

Any content short of vCoS, vRoM and vTrials can be completed without a healer, so doesn't really matter if they are garbage or not... OP can play the sorc healer effectively if he wants to

BTW, not garbage in the sense that clearing content is difficult. The content in this game is not hard (which is a separate issue). I provide more than enough healing/dps with my crappy steaming pile of doodoo mag sorc healer/dps build to clear any group content outside of vet trials. After a while even vet dlc dungeons become suupper easy with an even somewhat competent group.

It's garbage in the sense that it's horribly unoptimized. I can't focus on dps 100% of the time, can't focus on healing and buffing 100% of the time. Have to keep ward up so I don't get one shotted by various attacks. Have to use far more heavy attacks then I would like because of the god awful Morrowind changes to sustain.

I devised this build on my main (mag sorc) to get faster queues and it has succeeded in that, that said I do not enjoy playing it. Even then I will often end up with 70%+ of the group dps because, well, pugs. Group finder pugs are a truly awful thing.

So, in sum works more than okay, it's just terrible IMO because it isn't that good within the grand scheme of things. My concern does not lie with completing content, but rather with playing at the highest level possible at every possible opportunity.

klowdy1 wrote: »

I keep.rrading allnthese posts saying it's up to the guild leader, and Templars ARE better healers, and if the focus is trials it's understandable. How many people can a guild hold? How many guilds have 100% of people running trials at all times, even in a trial guild? How many changes have been made to classes over the years?

This is straight up ***. If you got kicked out of that guild, feel lucky. The leader is obviously an elitist PoS, you don't want to deal with that. Give it a month or so and he will be kicking out all of the Templars, and bringing in wardens because of a balance change. There is no reason to kick people out of a guild for the spec they choose, because this crap is changing all the time. You got lucky, take the money and run, and eff that dude in the A.

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Jciampi wrote: »

Was running a 4 man dungeon on normal, a PUG. The healer warps in. He is a sorc. I don't give a flying poo. As long as he can keep my tank healed I'm fine with that. One of the DPS though, "he ain't no healer I ain't gonna play with no dumb sorc healer. Boot him or I don't play". This went on for the next 20 min. Him constantly asking to boot the healer, and me saying no. Everytime i decline the boot, another prompt comes up asking to kick again. Finally after 20 min he just quit on his own and we finished the boss. Like dude, I get it, for a trial you want right specs. But this is a 4 man dungeon... On normal... If you even really need a healer and you're above cp160, then we gotta talk.

Just to clarify, I DO NOT condone this type of behavior (in normal dungeons ?? )

This is disgraceful.

The hardest 4 man content in the game does not even require a healer if you're halfway competent and can keep yourself alive and away from damage.

I want to kick people all the time, but only in 2 main scenarios:

1) They're low cp and it's a vet dlc dungeon

2) They've proven they cannot fulfill the role and are severely hurting the group

Then I want to kick them right away.

Normal dungeons are so easy it will never be necessary to kick someone, unless the entire group is under level 50, or something. I'm sure lowbies have separate things they argue over altogether.

One of my guilds did a vet aa run with no healer. We did just fine lol. Any player that is bad enough to directly,harm the group gets booted. If it's multiple people I usually just leave.

But that's the point.

If it's group content one has to consider he's not playing solo, he's playing with other people. At some point, what you think it's "fun" has to be put into perspective. Actively damaging the group chances at clearing the content or get a good score, if it's a leaderboard run to get the weekly reward, should not be acceptable, nor defended.

That should, of course, be clear from the start. I can't just invite anyone because I don't have enough people, then complain about the lack of deeps.

Blanco wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Belyar wrote: »

I wanted to make a sorc healer, guess I won't

Good. They're garbage

One less sorc healer = a good thing.

Roll templar or warden for heals.

Fun fact about a sorc healer: you can make a magsorc dps and use it as a healer if you want, just morph the twilight to matriarch instead of tormentor.

Then, when you're done healing, go back to OP magsorc dps.

Unlocking resto staff abilities does not precludes using the toon for dps.
Twilight Tormentor is not needed for endgame dps.
Getting orbs does not make any difference in your dps spec.
Aggressive Horn does not precludes the acquisition of a different dps ulti, and power stone makes it easier to get it faster.

Therefore Sorc healer = Sorc dps.

Sorc dps = one of the best dps class in the game atm.

Therefore no, a sorc healer is not garbage, as it's basically a sorc dps used as healer.

Go make a mag sorc, and use it to heal if you need to, they're ok, and you can turn it into a dps at the drop of a dime.

As long as you don't need to heal vet trials, it really doesn't matter what kind of healer you play.

I already do this. It is in fact garbage. lol

You're forgetting one important detail.

Any content short of vCoS, vRoM and vTrials can be completed without a healer, so doesn't really matter if they are garbage or not... OP can play the sorc healer effectively if he wants to

BTW, not garbage in the sense that clearing content is difficult. The content in this game is not hard (which is a separate issue). I provide more than enough healing/dps with my crappy steaming pile of doodoo mag sorc healer/dps build to clear any group content outside of vet trials. After a while even vet dlc dungeons become suupper easy with an even somewhat competent group.

It's garbage in the sense that it's horribly unoptimized. I can't focus on dps 100% of the time, can't focus on healing and buffing 100% of the time. Have to keep ward up so I don't get one shotted by various attacks. Have to use far more heavy attacks then I would like because of the god awful Morrowind changes to sustain.

I devised this build on my main (mag sorc) to get faster queues and it has succeeded in that, that said I do not enjoy playing it. Even then I will often end up with 70%+ of the group dps because, well, pugs. Group finder pugs are a truly awful thing.

So, in sum works more than okay, it's just terrible IMO because it isn't that good within the grand scheme of things. My concern does not lie with completing content, but rather with playing at the highest level possible at every possible opportunity.

On that we agree.

A huge part of the problem is people don't know how bad they actually are. I can't speak for other servers but PS4 an I swear to god 95% of the game is carried by whatever is remaining on the top 5% that's even willing to touch a pug group. And most the elite guilds are mostly the same 200 people.

I dunno what changed, but it seems like almost everybody these days spams light attacks with a bow. The game can't take too many more updates like morrowind. At least not the pve scene.

zaria wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Jciampi wrote: »

Was running a 4 man dungeon on normal, a PUG. The healer warps in. He is a sorc. I don't give a flying poo. As long as he can keep my tank healed I'm fine with that. One of the DPS though, "he ain't no healer I ain't gonna play with no dumb sorc healer. Boot him or I don't play". This went on for the next 20 min. Him constantly asking to boot the healer, and me saying no. Everytime i decline the boot, another prompt comes up asking to kick again. Finally after 20 min he just quit on his own and we finished the boss. Like dude, I get it, for a trial you want right specs. But this is a 4 man dungeon... On normal... If you even really need a healer and you're above cp160, then we gotta talk.

Just to clarify, I DO NOT condone this type of behavior (in normal dungeons ?? )

This is disgraceful.

The hardest 4 man content in the game does not even require a healer if you're halfway competent and can keep yourself alive and away from damage.

I want to kick people all the time, but only in 2 main scenarios:

1) They're low cp and it's a vet dlc dungeon

2) They've proven they cannot fulfill the role and are severely hurting the group

Then I want to kick them right away.

Normal dungeons are so easy it will never be necessary to kick someone, unless the entire group is under level 50, or something. I'm sure lowbies have separate things they argue over altogether.

One of my guilds did a vet aa run with no healer. We did just fine lol. Any player that is bad enough to directly,harm the group gets booted. If it's multiple people I usually just leave.

But that's the point.

If it's group content one has to consider he's not playing solo, he's playing with other people. At some point, what you think it's "fun" has to be put into perspective. Actively damaging the group chances at clearing the content or get a good score, if it's a leaderboard run to get the weekly reward, should not be acceptable, nor defended.

That should, of course, be clear from the start. I can't just invite anyone because I don't have enough people, then complain about the lack of deeps.

Blanco wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Belyar wrote: »

I wanted to make a sorc healer, guess I won't

Good. They're garbage

One less sorc healer = a good thing.

Roll templar or warden for heals.

Fun fact about a sorc healer: you can make a magsorc dps and use it as a healer if you want, just morph the twilight to matriarch instead of tormentor.

Then, when you're done healing, go back to OP magsorc dps.

Unlocking resto staff abilities does not precludes using the toon for dps.
Twilight Tormentor is not needed for endgame dps.
Getting orbs does not make any difference in your dps spec.
Aggressive Horn does not precludes the acquisition of a different dps ulti, and power stone makes it easier to get it faster.

Therefore Sorc healer = Sorc dps.

Sorc dps = one of the best dps class in the game atm.

Therefore no, a sorc healer is not garbage, as it's basically a sorc dps used as healer.

Go make a mag sorc, and use it to heal if you need to, they're ok, and you can turn it into a dps at the drop of a dime.

As long as you don't need to heal vet trials, it really doesn't matter what kind of healer you play.

I already do this. It is in fact garbage. lol

You're forgetting one important detail.

Any content short of vCoS, vRoM and vTrials can be completed without a healer, so doesn't really matter if they are garbage or not... OP can play the sorc healer effectively if he wants to

BTW, not garbage in the sense that clearing content is difficult. The content in this game is not hard (which is a separate issue). I provide more than enough healing/dps with my crappy steaming pile of doodoo mag sorc healer/dps build to clear any group content outside of vet trials. After a while even vet dlc dungeons become suupper easy with an even somewhat competent group.

It's garbage in the sense that it's horribly unoptimized. I can't focus on dps 100% of the time, can't focus on healing and buffing 100% of the time. Have to keep ward up so I don't get one shotted by various attacks. Have to use far more heavy attacks then I would like because of the god awful Morrowind changes to sustain.

I devised this build on my main (mag sorc) to get faster queues and it has succeeded in that, that said I do not enjoy playing it. Even then I will often end up with 70%+ of the group dps because, well, pugs. Group finder pugs are a truly awful thing.

So, in sum works more than okay, it's just terrible IMO because it isn't that good within the grand scheme of things. My concern does not lie with completing content, but rather with playing at the highest level possible at every possible opportunity.

On that we agree.

A huge part of the problem is people don't know how bad they actually are. I can't speak for other servers but PS4 an I swear to god 95% of the game is carried by whatever is remaining on the top 5% that's even willing to touch a pug group. And most the elite guilds are mostly the same 200 people.

I dunno what changed, but it seems like almost everybody these days spams light attacks with a bow. The game can't take too many more updates like morrowind. At least not the pve scene.

LA with bows is common overland but rare even in normal dungeons, snipe and shards spamming in more common, Lots of twilight for some reason. none use sweeps except me.

Aisle9 wrote: »

I have video footage, in Sanctum, of people spamming bow LA, and I have video footage, because I saw it happening multiple times.

Pugs can surprise you

Vizikul wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Vizikul

In an organized raid group it is part of the healers job to help the group out with resources and to provide buffs to increase their dps. Tanks and healers are more than just meat shields and heals in this game. In the same token dps are not to solely rely on the healer to keep them alive, they must help.

No , it's not a healer's job to manage your resources. It's called a healer for a reason, it's not called a buffer or a resource manager but a healer, their only job is to keep the party alive. Of course, buffs, debuffs and resources will always be appreciated but it's not their job. When you play a dps, it is your job to deal dmg. When dps characters just spam their abilities until they are out of resources then they can't deal dmg anymore, therefore they are not doing their job.

Spamming abilities such as shards will drain your own resources quite quickly, so, when you have to manage the resources of your group members you will run out of resources yourself and then you can't heal anymore. If the healer runs out of resources, the group will most likely wipe. If the dps run out of resources, the group will still make it through but it takes a while. You can clearly see, where the priorities are.

When you speak of an organized group, I suppose you mean a group of players, who know the game mechanics and are able to avoid the telegraphs and incoming dmg. Being in a such a group, where the healer doesn't constantly need to heal morons that stand in the red, actually allows the healer to provide some buffs and resources, why not? What else to do, when the group avoids dmg and doesn't need many heals, especially when you consider that avoiding dmg costs a lot of resources as well. Otherwise, the group should hire an additional 'resource manager', who just spams shards/ orbs.

Flameheart wrote: »

Vizikul wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Vizikul

In an organized raid group it is part of the healers job to help the group out with resources and to provide buffs to increase their dps. Tanks and healers are more than just meat shields and heals in this game. In the same token dps are not to solely rely on the healer to keep them alive, they must help.

No , it's not a healer's job to manage your resources. It's called a healer for a reason, it's not called a buffer or a resource manager but a healer, their only job is to keep the party alive. Of course, buffs, debuffs and resources will always be appreciated but it's not their job. When you play a dps, it is your job to deal dmg. When dps characters just spam their abilities until they are out of resources then they can't deal dmg anymore, therefore they are not doing their job.

Spamming abilities such as shards will drain your own resources quite quickly, so, when you have to manage the resources of your group members you will run out of resources yourself and then you can't heal anymore. If the healer runs out of resources, the group will most likely wipe. If the dps run out of resources, the group will still make it through but it takes a while. You can clearly see, where the priorities are.

When you speak of an organized group, I suppose you mean a group of players, who know the game mechanics and are able to avoid the telegraphs and incoming dmg. Being in a such a group, where the healer doesn't constantly need to heal morons that stand in the red, actually allows the healer to provide some buffs and resources, why not? What else to do, when the group avoids dmg and doesn't need many heals, especially when you consider that avoiding dmg costs a lot of resources as well. Otherwise, the group should hire an additional 'resource manager', who just spams shards/ orbs.

You are so wrong. I am astonished to read such a *** here in year 3 of ESO.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

Jciampi wrote: »

"he ain't no healer I ain't gonna play with no dumb sorc healer. Boot him or I don't play".

This is a topic that would deserve a thread on its own. How many people someone in a PUG votes to kick someone just because they have low CP? And if the vote fails, they repeats 4 to 5 times?

That's very annoying. For several reasons. Among them, having high CP doesn't mean you are good. But let's put it simply. When you vote kick someone you are saying you are not happy with the party as it is. If the vote fails, that person should be kicked and prevented from going to dungeons for some time.

Aisle9 wrote: »

mystfit wrote: »

So, one of the guilds I was in...at least until yesterday...asked (told) all healers other then templars to get out of the guild. He followed up the chat rant with an email rant saying the same thing. He's the guild leader, he's well within his rights to run the guild as he sees fit. His issue seemed to be with providing stam to the group. Something I gather he felt made other healers useless. I am curious as to how many agree with his stance? <edited> To clarify, I'm curious about the stance of a healer needs to be a resource manager as well. It is my pleasure to assist the group however I can with whatever tools I may have (in this case a sorc). Also, as I had never grouped with the GL, this wasn't a personal attack at me nor did I take it as one.

Leaving all the "everyone can heal" discussion aside.

There are things happening regarding guild management, that players might not see, especially when you have to manage trial raids.

People like to point fingers and say "That guy is a tryhard", "That guy is an ass". Problem is, that guy is trying to manage 11 more people, coming from different countries, with different levels of communication skills (some just plain refuse to communicate), with different degrees of skills, and they have to be managed.

You would know if you tried it.

It's easy to reach a breaking point where you just say stuff like "Every healer that is not X class, leave" because someone in the raid insisted in playing a certain class in a certain way.

It's not necessarily the best option or the only possible option, maybe it's just a way to avoid setting a precedent that can be used to make an argument, that will lead to making everyone wait while you finish arguing with that person.

When you're managing a 12 ppl raid, or a 500 ppl guild, there are things you need to do. People are quick to say "it's a game, I'm supposed to have fun, I don't want a boss in a game", but when your "having fun" makes 11 other people miserable, then you're just selfish. If you're skilled enough to provide a decent level of utility, while playing an unconventional class, there's no problem. If you can't, change class. Dps have it easy, then dps, let someone else heal. It's really that easy.

As other said, I don't know the reasons your GL said that, but it is true, it's within his rights to do whatever he wants with the guild. You're free to leave that guild (as you did) and find another one that better suits your play style.

When people say "The healer has to manage resources for the team as well" doesn't mean the healer is the sole provider of resources, it means the healer is supposed to help with it. Orbs costs a lot, but when one healer throws 3 or 4, the other healer does that as well, and the off-tank throws a couple too, you have orbs for everyone.

Here's another example of utility a healer can provide: Combat Prayer is not easy to use, because it requires people to stack together, but if applied it provides Minor Berserker to classes with no access to it (not everyone is a magblade). Slimecraw gives it as well, so, the argument might be "you can just slot Slimecraw", but then I wouldn't be able to slot something else like grothdarr, ilambris, skoria, kra'gh, all things that gives me more dps, which make the fight shorter, which means I need to heal less, which means we get more points, which means we get in the leaderboard and get mails with shiny stuff in them (leaderboard mails gives you golden gear from that trial).

So, is it better to slot Combat Prayer or to ask people to slot Slimecraw ? Maybe you find it less fun, because BoL is more fun, personally I don't understand it, but, hey, no account for taste. It will take more time, which means lower score, which means you probably won't get the shiny stuff this week.

You had fun, 11 people did not.

My personal opinion is that, when I play a role, I want to do the most in that role, which means, if I dps, I want to make sure I make as much damage as possible, which means, if the tank asks me not to use an ice staff, I won't, and if the healer asks me to stop dancing around and stack in front of them, I will stack in front of them. As a tank... It's not like I can tank the most, as long as I'm not dead, I'm doing the best possible job, so, what I can do after that is to provide support, so CC for adds, applying debuffs, and such. Same for playing a healer, I can't heal more than max HP, I can't give people spare heals to use in the next attack, so I might as well help the group with resources, since I have the means to do so.

Most of all I want to make sure I can function as a team member, not as a solo player in a group.

mystfit wrote: »

Whether the GL was a tad to assertive or not (and yes, I did leave the guild), I figure there is some value and making sure I'm doing 'all the right stuff' and I think I could use orbs more then I do (which is mostly not much). I enjoy healing on my sorc so plan on doing more of it!

"The right stuff" is situational.

In a 4ppl group for medium to hard content (vet dungeons, vDSA) you can do pretty much whatever you want. I once healed vDSA with 64 points in stamina. Not a hybrid class, I just derped after I respecced. Heals were weak AF, we wiped a couple times, I had to heavy attack every 2 abilities, but it wasn't that bad.

In the end we had a laugh.

Every class has 1 dps tree, 1 tank tree and 1 healing tree, plus everyone has access to resto staff abilities.

I main a magicka nightblade and healed every single veteran dungeon with it. It's actually quite fun, and I can potentially do a lot more damage than a magplar. Then I found out you don't really need a healer in vet dungeons and switched to tank instead. Being a magblade I was able to provide reliable healing while tanking, as well.

Would I heal a trial with it ? Hell no. Would I tank with it ? Maybe, but not with the same build.

It's not that one is better than the other, it's just easier, therefore, if you're not sure about your raid, it's the easy way to make sure you're good. If you're absolutely certain your raid is solid and everyone knows what to do, and they know where to stand, you can easily use refreshing path instead of ritual. Most of my healing comes from resto staff anyways, and as a magblade I can provide more warhorn uptime, because I have better ulti gen. MagDK have access to major mending which is a very powerful buff, while templars don't anymore. temp stil have access to Ritual, which is a very large AoE heal that last a very long time and also provides purge.

Bottom line is, you can do a lot of stuff in this game and be good at it, the key is to understand your abilities, and get better at the class you're using. It's easy to ask others which build or which class to use, but when you understand how your skills work, you can make that decision yourself.

Hope this helps.

PS - You can definitely heal vet dungeons with a sorc. You can probably reliably heal vet trials with a sorc as well, but I wouldn't advise it unless you're very very sure of yourself and have a bunch of friends with you. You can't rely on pugs.

Blanco wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Belyar wrote: »

I wanted to make a sorc healer, guess I won't

Good. They're garbage

One less sorc healer = a good thing.

Roll templar or warden for heals.

Fun fact about a sorc healer: you can make a magsorc dps and use it as a healer if you want, just morph the twilight to matriarch instead of tormentor.

Then, when you're done healing, go back to OP magsorc dps.

Unlocking resto staff abilities does not precludes using the toon for dps.
Twilight Tormentor is not needed for endgame dps.
Getting orbs does not make any difference in your dps spec.
Aggressive Horn does not precludes the acquisition of a different dps ulti, and power stone makes it easier to get it faster.

Therefore Sorc healer = Sorc dps.

Sorc dps = one of the best dps class in the game atm.

Therefore no, a sorc healer is not garbage, as it's basically a sorc dps used as healer.

Go make a mag sorc, and use it to heal if you need to, they're ok, and you can turn it into a dps at the drop of a dime.

As long as you don't need to heal vet trials, it really doesn't matter what kind of healer you play.

I already do this. It is in fact garbage. lol

You're forgetting one important detail.

Any content short of vCoS, vRoM and vTrials can be completed without a healer, so doesn't really matter if they are garbage or not... OP can play the sorc healer effectively if he wants to

BTW, not garbage in the sense that clearing content is difficult. The content in this game is not hard (which is a separate issue). I provide more than enough healing/dps with my crappy steaming pile of doodoo mag sorc healer/dps build to clear any group content outside of vet trials. After a while even vet dlc dungeons become suupper easy with an even somewhat competent group.

It's garbage in the sense that it's horribly unoptimized. I can't focus on dps 100% of the time, can't focus on healing and buffing 100% of the time. Have to keep ward up so I don't get one shotted by various attacks. Have to use far more heavy attacks then I would like because of the god awful Morrowind changes to sustain.

I devised this build on my main (mag sorc) to get faster queues and it has succeeded in that, that said I do not enjoy playing it. Even then I will often end up with 70%+ of the group dps because, well, pugs. Group finder pugs are a truly awful thing.

So, in sum works more than okay, it's just terrible IMO because it isn't that good within the grand scheme of things. My concern does not lie with completing content, but rather with playing at the highest level possible at every possible opportunity.

khai014 wrote: »

so resource recovery is also a job of healers now?

that's bs dude. i always play dps,and for that someone to complain because the healer didn't do something about someone elses sustain is plain bs.

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

I keep.rrading allnthese posts saying it's up to the guild leader, and Templars ARE better healers, and if the focus is trials it's understandable. How many people can a guild hold? How many guilds have 100% of people running trials at all times, even in a trial guild? How many changes have been made to classes over the years?

This is straight up ***. If you got kicked out of that guild, feel lucky. The leader is obviously an elitist PoS, you don't want to deal with that. Give it a month or so and he will be kicking out all of the Templars, and bringing in wardens because of a balance change. There is no reason to kick people out of a guild for the spec they choose, because this crap is changing all the time. You got lucky, take the money and run, and eff that dude in the A.

Trials needs to have its elitist atmosphere. It can be *** impossible to get 3 other people to get a normal dungeon done, but veteran trials can be an unbelievable nightmare in some groups. Though between you and I, I care about people's performance more than I care about their race and class. If they happen to be mostly templars then so be it.

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

I keep.rrading allnthese posts saying it's up to the guild leader, and Templars ARE better healers, and if the focus is trials it's understandable. How many people can a guild hold? How many guilds have 100% of people running trials at all times, even in a trial guild? How many changes have been made to classes over the years?

This is straight up ***. If you got kicked out of that guild, feel lucky. The leader is obviously an elitist PoS, you don't want to deal with that. Give it a month or so and he will be kicking out all of the Templars, and bringing in wardens because of a balance change. There is no reason to kick people out of a guild for the spec they choose, because this crap is changing all the time. You got lucky, take the money and run, and eff that dude in the A.

Trials needs to have its elitist atmosphere. It can be *** impossible to get 3 other people to get a normal dungeon done, but veteran trials can be an unbelievable nightmare in some groups. Though between you and I, I care about people's performance more than I care about their race and class. If they happen to be mostly templars then so be it.

No, flat out no! Trials do NOT need to be elitist. Its one thing to teach people what is better and what will work or not, and what will make a terrible build. BUT its another thing entirely to be elitist. To be on your high horse and say, IT MUST BE EXACTLY LIKE THIS OR WE WILL NOT RUN YOU. For progression teams, yes, and as I've said, if a person is new and don't know how to make something then help them. But any class in any role can do most trials without issues. I would actually say with enough skill you can do all Trials with sub par class selection. But say you are doing a vAA, you don't have to be an elitist jerk and tell someone not to run a certain class, its not needed, if it is for your team then class selection is the least of your problems.

Player skill, raid awareness and mechanics knowledge is what makes or breaks a trial run, not class selection.

If you're going strictly for completions then yeah. Even moderate score runs you can get away with a dk or sorc healer if they know what they're doing. But when it comes down to seconds for a #1 spot, for the absolute top tier competitive guilds, you need to be completely optimized. And the whole "IT MUST BE EXACTLY LIKE THIS OR WE WILL NOT RUN YOU" does in fact have a place. And when you have people wanting to get to that point, there arises the issues with non-Templar healers.