"You dont have the OS templar heal? Then you are not a healer."

Said every pug group to my DK healer since day 1. I gave up. I have DPS on one bar and heals on the other. At the end, they congratulate the healer on such great healing while i LOL.

These are the only objective advantages a templar has in the healing role over the other 4 classes.

Minor mending
Shard returning secondary resource
Major maim.

Orbs competes with shards speed via application range ie can reach multiple targets while the healer can resume other actions. Shards on the other hand is one synergy per cast yet is far more accurate and quick but the templar is locked out of other actions the more targets he needs to reach with shards.

As far as raw healing output is concerned, all 5 of the classes actually produce on par HPS via varying reliance on class passives / skills and the resto staff offerings.

Like many in this game, the OPs guild master had chosen to acknowledge only the existence of templar healers for end game content. Possibly in large part to sucking the teet of the top 3 percent leader board representation based on established norms that top players willingly chose to not deviate from.

I believe with the utmost certainty, that if any top guild wanted to, they could run a non templar healing duo and place on the leaderbaords just the same. Yet they dont even try to humor the notion of such a thing, and thus setting the nonsense standard for leader board chasing junkies which trickles down to the bottom of the barrel player base to what we have now, an environment where templars are viewed as the only viable trial healer by a majority of players not qualified to make that assertion.

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

Slack wrote: »

I find templar healing just to be more idiot friendly, but sorcerer to actually be far better at it. (at least in dungeons)
Haven't tried it on other classes yet

Details! Please! Specifically how a sorc healer is better. Curious, not angry in case I get attacked.

Yeah. Since June 2015, pugging with Sorc Healers, 1 was actually spec'd and geared for healing. I would say adequate.

exeeter702 wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Honestly, I'm not a fan of Warden or Sorc healers. They do the job, but I'd rather have a good Templar.

I would rather have steak instead of hamburgers.

Hamburger to steak is a terrible and innacurate analogy. It suggests one is of higher objective quality to the other wich is false

As someone who Tanks Vet pugs, I stand by this statement an analogy.

Just because forum warriors can make a Sorc healer doesn't mean your average Joe Pug does it and well.

Templar healers, even the dumbest ones still slot BOL. The typical dumb Sorc healer usually uses mutagen and goes to his damage bar.

Im failing to understand how player ineptitude has anything to do with your anaology. At the highest player level for example, a templar and a nb in the healing role will produce competetive results. Steak is objectively a higher quality meat than ground beef. Templars are not objectively superior in the healing role to non templars, if of course your having the discussion with experienced and well informed players.

Darlgon wrote: »

"You dont have the OS templar heal? Then you are not a healer."

Said every pug group to my DK healer since day 1. I gave up. I have DPS on one bar and heals on the other. At the end, they congratulate the healer on such great healing while i LOL.

And people wonder why I don't pug. You make one change from what a popular YouTuber said was best, and their minions will loose their minds.

WOW!
Such tame responses.

1. Good riddance to the guild. You are clearly better off without them.
2. Your Guild leader is an ***. And frankly if I were in a guild when someone made such an idiotic statement and demand I would quit guild myself.
3. Don't worry about it, not your fault at all.
4. Be thankful you found out now, Anyone that stupid is bound to ruin you experience in a guild sooner or later.
5. Because it's worth repeating, Your Guild leader is an ***, and you are better off without him/her.

Evey class can do any role but some class are better than others in specific roles, I have been in this game from 2+ years and played with every class and role:

DK as Main Tank
Sorcerer as DPS
Templar as Healers
Nighblade as DPS (best in single target dps and top in pvp aka Ganker recenty got ganked in IC and lost around 40k TV

Warden as Healer and Tank

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Nighblade as DPS (best in single target dps and top in pvp aka Ganker recenty got ganked in IC and lost around 40k TV

I know that I should stay on topic, but why the hell you didn't deposit TV stones to the bank?

Farming boss and i lost in 2 x trips today!

Once was going through door and other near flag..

Vizikul wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Vizikul

In an organized raid group it is part of the healers job to help the group out with resources and to provide buffs to increase their dps. Tanks and healers are more than just meat shields and heals in this game. In the same token dps are not to solely rely on the healer to keep them alive, they must help.

No , it's not a healer's job to manage your resources. It's called a healer for a reason, it's not called a buffer or a resource manager but a healer, their only job is to keep the party alive. Of course, buffs, debuffs and resources will always be appreciated but it's not their job. When you play a dps, it is your job to deal dmg. When dps characters just spam their abilities until they are out of resources then they can't deal dmg anymore, therefore they are not doing their job.

Spamming abilities such as shards will drain your own resources quite quickly, so, when you have to manage the resources of your group members you will run out of resources yourself and then you can't heal anymore. If the healer runs out of resources, the group will most likely wipe. If the dps run out of resources, the group will still make it through but it takes a while. You can clearly see, where the priorities are.

When you speak of an organized group, I suppose you mean a group of players, who know the game mechanics and are able to avoid the telegraphs and incoming dmg. Being in a such a group, where the healer doesn't constantly need to heal morons that stand in the red, actually allows the healer to provide some buffs and resources, why not? What else to do, when the group avoids dmg and doesn't need many heals, especially when you consider that avoiding dmg costs a lot of resources as well. Otherwise, the group should hire an additional 'resource manager', who just spams shards/ orbs.

healer and tank are both support roles.Why else would such skills be available to them?

I don't kick people from group. It does annoy me the amount of fake healers there are though. My tank is self healing and carries his Rkugamz everywhere. Templar fake healers, sorcerer fake healers, dk fake healers, nightblade fake healers, warden fake healers. No orbs. No shards. No burst heal. Regeneration only and the rest of their "skills" are dps. It has nothing to do with the class of the healer but the class of the player.

while I have respect for anyone who wants to play their way and am not that picky on groups I must admit that Templar healers are much better suited for groups and that includes wardens imo

ill even go a step farther. I also prefer Templar dps!

exeeter702 wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

Slack wrote: »

I find templar healing just to be more idiot friendly, but sorcerer to actually be far better at it. (at least in dungeons)
Haven't tried it on other classes yet

Details! Please! Specifically how a sorc healer is better. Curious, not angry in case I get attacked.

Yeah. Since June 2015, pugging with Sorc Healers, 1 was actually spec'd and geared for healing. I would say adequate.

exeeter702 wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Honestly, I'm not a fan of Warden or Sorc healers. They do the job, but I'd rather have a good Templar.

I would rather have steak instead of hamburgers.

Hamburger to steak is a terrible and innacurate analogy. It suggests one is of higher objective quality to the other wich is false

As someone who Tanks Vet pugs, I stand by this statement an analogy.

Just because forum warriors can make a Sorc healer doesn't mean your average Joe Pug does it and well.

Templar healers, even the dumbest ones still slot BOL. The typical dumb Sorc healer usually uses mutagen and goes to his damage bar.

Im failing to understand how player ineptitude has anything to do with your anaology. At the highest player level for example, a templar and a nb in the healing role will produce competetive results. Steak is objectively a higher quality meat than ground beef. Templars are not objectively superior in the healing role to non templars, if of course your having the discussion with experienced and well informed players.

Top players don't play the classes/skills they want to. They play whats best. If other healers were truly superior, you'd see them on the leaderboards. Right now, we see templars and some wardens. Not sorcs, nightblades, or DKs.

paulsimonps wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Evey class can do any role but some class are better than others in specific roles, I have been in this game from 2+ years and played with every class and role:

DK as Main Tank
Sorcerer as DPS
Templar as Healers
Nighblade as DPS (best in single target dps and top in pvp aka Ganker recenty got ganked in IC and lost around 40k TV

Warden as Healer and Tank

Not according to most in this thread.

I suggest they tank some Pug Vets.

I honestly change my build around for them. Oh great....A Sorcerer healer. Better put on Engine Guardian and Vigor. (Not only will I get weak heals, but also nothing in resource management).

As I've said before, THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO EVERY HEALER THAT IS NOT A TEMPLAR, THERE ARE BAD TEMPLAR HEALERS TOO. CLASS=/=PLAYER SKILL LEVEL

You act as though it's the rule......and not the exception.

Yoloswag420 forum guy does not represent a majority of the playing community.

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

healer and tank are both support roles.Why else would such skills be available to them?

shards are not available to healers but to templars, the templar can be a healer, a tank or a dps. Orbs are available to everyone, so every single dps character also has access to it

paulsimonps wrote: »

As Giles said, there is more to the roles of healer and tank in this game, there is no bard in this game, we don't have a buff class/role. That role is shared by the Tank and the healer. Also if you spam shards to the point where you can't do anything else then that is your problem in throwing too many.

I mean, do you not apply minor magicka steal? When a tank is low on stamina do you just let him die? Do you just 100% heal and nothing else?.

Exactly, we don't have a buff class/ role, so it's nobody's 'job' to buff because it's not a job to buff, buffs are an extra.
All classes are designed to do everything. DK's can provide major brutality and sorcery to the party, it doesn't matter if they play as a tank, a healer or a dps. I buff my team mates no matter if I play as healer, tank or dps but it's not my job to do so. I just do it to speed up the run.
Unless like in other games you can't even see the resources of your team mates... but now it's a healer's responsibility to manage your resources, when he doesn't even know how much you have remaining? Every single class has access to orbs and still you claim it's the healer's job to manage your resources. It is your character, it are your resources and it is your responsibility to manage them. In real life it's not the job of your friends to manage your finances either, that is your job and only your job.

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Evey class can do any role but some class are better than others in specific roles, I have been in this game from 2+ years and played with every class and role:

DK as Main Tank
Sorcerer as DPS
Templar as Healers
Nighblade as DPS (best in single target dps and top in pvp aka Ganker recenty got ganked in IC and lost around 40k TV

Warden as Healer and Tank

Not according to most in this thread.

I suggest they tank some Pug Vets.

I honestly change my build around for them. Oh great....A Sorcerer healer. Better put on Engine Guardian and Vigor. (Not only will I get weak heals, but also nothing in resource management).

As I've said before, THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO EVERY HEALER THAT IS NOT A TEMPLAR, THERE ARE BAD TEMPLAR HEALERS TOO. CLASS=/=PLAYER SKILL LEVEL

You act as though it's the rule......and not the exception.

Yoloswag420 forum guy does not represent a majority of the playing community.

IronCrystal wrote: »

Vizikul wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Vizikul

In an organized raid group it is part of the healers job to help the group out with resources and to provide buffs to increase their dps. Tanks and healers are more than just meat shields and heals in this game. In the same token dps are not to solely rely on the healer to keep them alive, they must help.

No , it's not a healer's job to manage your resources. It's called a healer for a reason, it's not called a buffer or a resource manager but a healer, their only job is to keep the party alive. Of course, buffs, debuffs and resources will always be appreciated but it's not their job. When you play a dps, it is your job to deal dmg. If dps characters just spam their abilities until they are out of resources then they can't deal dmg anymore, therefore they are not doing their job.

Spamming abilities such as shards will drain your own resources quite quickly, so, when you have to manage the resources of your group members you will run out of resources yourself and then you can't heal anymore. If the healer runs out of resources, the group will most likely wipe. If the dps run out of resources, the group will still make it through but it takes a while. You can clearly see, where the priorities are.

When you speak of an organized group, I suppose you mean a group of players, who know the game mechanics and are able to avoid the telegraphs and incoming dmg. Being in a such a group, where the healer doesn't constantly need to heal morons that stand in the red, actually allows the healer to provide some buffs and resources, why not? What else to do, when the group avoids dmg and doesn't need many heals, especially when you consider that avoiding dmg costs a lot of resources as well. Otherwise, the group should hire an additional resource manager, which job is to spam shards/ orbs.

It's pretty clear you don't participate in good trials groups.

Sure, your dps can't be stupid when it comes to resources. If they constantly spam high cost skills then they are gonna run out.

But it is the healers job to keep a steady flow of resources coming in. It is proven that the DPS are far more effective when they can just focus on doing all the damage they can and not have to worry about resource management because the healer does it for them. That's why it is so apparent when you have a good healer vs a bad healer in a trial. DPS will suffer if the healer is not doing their job of providing resources.

The healer should never be running out of resources. A shard is nothing for a healer to throw. Orbs? You should have about 4 of them floating around every 10 or so seconds (different for different healers)..

To get the best damage...often times that means the dps are taking damage. You know how to complete Ra Kotu the fastest? Everyone stands in the whirling tornados and the healer heals through them. You know how to kill the storm atronach the fastest? Everyone stands in lighting (shields of course) and the healers heal through them. You know how to kill the mantikora the fastest? Everyone just straight burns the boss after the popcorn phase.

Having the healer dishing out buffs, debuffs, heals, and resources is how groups become the most effective.

Ya kinda contradict yourself here. Do you know why a healer can keep everyone alive in the whirling tornados? It isn't because the DPS is doing extra damage. It is because the healer is healing. The healers resources are the most important in the entire group. A self sustaining tank that needs occasional help and DPS that can be bothered to throw in a heavy attack every third rotation or have decent sustain go a long way in helping not just the healer but the entire group. Sure there are fights where the healer can concentrate on throwing out support. Then there are the fights you mentioned where the healer better be concentrating on healing. Sustain is part of my normal rotation, but sometimes normal doesn't cut it. When that happens the group needs to be able to provide some sustain of their own because I am busy keeping them standing.

I don't know about sorc healers in PvE but having one in the group in PvP comes in real handy. Running trials a Templar Warden tandem works really well. They compliment each others skills nicely.

Getting back to the OP... sounds like the leader of the guild (and probably others) failed to adapt to the changes and are looking for someone to blame.