Stamina version of necropotence?

idk · August 2017

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

supaskrub wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Necro needs a nerf anyway

So because something that to be effective needs two slots taking up for a pet, then dead slots for either bound aegis or inner light or even both as i have seen on occasion which only real benefit is to give big shields as it also requires a constant uptime of pet and deadric prey to come even close to being a right up there DPS monster build, mess up on deadric prey or the pet and the build is dps garbage except for survivability which is dependant on the shields.

Maybe theres something wrong with how i play but i get more reliable and constantly higher dps on my magsorc, not running necro and not tieing slots up running a dumb pet, sure its easy mode stuff necro + pet but its definatly not a insta-win dps/crit/sustain beast if you want to put out huge damage numbers.

So rather than calling for a nerf to an "easy mode" niche gear set why not take a look at what could well be the real issue (and by the way I'm not suggesting a nerf) which is the shield scaling from max magicka pool.

You don't need pets to get necro's last bonus. Shadowrend will totally do, at least for PVP. If you're a mag nb then you got shade, which is pretty much mandatory anyway.

Shades are not manditory. Let's keep this kinda sorta in the realm of real.

If you're a mag NB in PVP without the ranged morph of shade, you are missing out on a lot of things. As of now, shades can critically strike, they have a decent tooltip, they are indestructible, provide an awesome mobility option when re-used, provide the 5th bonus of necropotence which in turn strengthens your character immensely, and on top you get minor maim.

Ranged shade is one THE best skills in this game for PVP.

I never said they were not useful. I am very well aware of their of how useful they are. The person I quoted mistakenly stated they were pretty much mandatory. Good single target dmg, esp for cast time, and nice debuff on the target. It is a good escape in PvP.

bebynnag · August 2017

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

puffytheslayer wrote: »

yes there are 2, and you dont have to use dumb pets to benefit!

That dumb scamps does pretty good damge.

yeah it does deal a crazy amount of damage when its not walking off into a corner admiring the architencture/scenery/corpses

bebynnag · August 2017

the simple fact is ANY stamina user can use hulking regardless of their build, even HA PvP DD's can the set & still have 5-7 HA pieces (depending on weapon choices)

only 3 of the 5 classes are able to use necropotence
so before you nerf necropotence why not give DK's & templars some pets (dragons & idk mudcrabs respectively)

SodanTok · August 2017

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

But why focus on stacking stamina? Weapon damage tends to be more impactful these days, it synergizes with medium armor and fighters guild, and buffs light and heavy attacks a lot more than stamina.

Sure, focus on stacking weapon damage. But where is set for that? Medium armor sets are behind heavy armor sets at raw weapon damage and those heavy are usually proc related. There are only few sets that have 2 wep damage bonuses and none that has 3 let alone 4. It will be very interesting to see what becomes meta after the proc set vacuum and if it is not some heavy armor like ravager or some hidden underfed procset.

There are 12 sets that have 2 wep damage bonuses, 9 of them have it on 5th piece.
Six of those 12 are medium armor. One is craftable. Only one set applies the weapon damage to at least 90% of your damage with 100% uptime and that is Automaton. Sword singer is possibly close. Both of those are worse than Necro is for most magicka users.

It is obviously based on balance so no complaining for me that I get treated worse or anything, but it just feels stupid how weaker the stats sets are over necro.

//EDIT:
FYI while wep damage synergizes better than stat on stam builds it is not by too much. Redguard in CP is running with 32% boost to stamina and (with agility, major brutality and one fighter guild skill) 35% boost to wep damage

It's just my novice opinion, but I always thought it was weird that magicka classes focus so heavily on piling up 50k magicka and leaving spell damage down around 2500ish when they rely so heavily on heavy staff attacks as part of their rotation.

As a comparison, take a look at 2H build with ravager (weapon+jewelry+1 piece heavy armor) and Hundings vs Bone Pirates and Draugr Hulk.

When you're surrounded by mobs, ravager procs like crazy, you can get 70% uptime. Each light attack with the weapon damage build deals 40,000 distributed damage because of the 2H forceful passive.

If Draugr and Bone pirate are equipped, now the light attacks deal something like 30,000 distributed damage. The skill damage alone with a max stam setup is also a bit worse than the weapon damage setup, especially in this scenario with 70% ravager uptime. Perhaps skills would deal more damage with a Redguard Warden Stamina beast, but the average damage (skills + light attacks) would need to be considered because light attacks account for 15-25% of the damage.

They arent stacking 50k magicka when they build for heavy attack damage in PVE (I presume) and in PVP you arent building around light attack damage. You get both defense and offense from stacking max magicka plus you have access to to stuff that increases your max magicka even more, so it is pretty obvious route to take. Really the only thing you dont get on magicka build stacking max magicka is the light/heavy attack damage

//edit:
Not to mention it is difficult to stack spell damage. More difficult than stack weapon damage and from personal experience that is already pretty difficult if you use bow (which has same limitations as staves and the only thing it gets is 12% agility bonus and some pocket % from fighters guild passive) You are looking at 3k spell damage on magicka build with staff that goes the spell damage route instead of magicka. Zero of these 500 more goes to shields and neither to two popular healing types (surge and healing ward)

It seemed like the magicka was maxed out in a lot of the heavy attack PVE DPS parses I've seen. Take a look here, one of the entries shows screenshots of magicka DPS comparison between 4 classes:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4313497#Comment_4313497

Spell damage was only 2680 and the magicka was 45000, yet the combined lightning HA+LA damage was 29%-35% of the total. I dunno the mechanics and entire reasoning behind it, but another X spell damage swapped in place of Y magicka should lift the DPS, shouldn't it? Spell damage should affect heavy attacks 40x more than magicka.

You cant just swap pieces of equipment as you see fit. Sure, 1k less magicka for 129 more spell damage could be better, but what if the rest of the set is not good. Its same as medium armor, there are no real good damage sets. Thats why Julianos is very popular set. You wont find many other sets that are good overall and offer more than 129 of wep/spell damage.
There are just few good set offering spell damage. Netch touch for sorc or sun for DK and Julianos. Then Scathing mage is possibly used and BSW still. They are known and everyone creating build is using them for testing/math. SO if they come with different set it was probably better.

PlautisCarvain · August 2017

I'm sure that pets for all class could be a very good idea, but don't do unkillable pets anymore

SodanTok · August 2017

puffytheslayer wrote: »

the simple fact is ANY stamina user can use hulking regardless of their build, even HA PvP DD's can the set & still have 5-7 HA pieces (depending on weapon choices)

only 3 of the 5 classes are able to use necropotence
so before you nerf necropotence why not give DK's & templars some pets (dragons & idk mudcrabs respectively)

Use set that spawns something :P

but dont nerf necro, jsut gimme set that is stronger than other with these very hard to deal requirements (having pet), I will carry this burden on my stam warden with netch.

bebynnag · August 2017

PlautisCarvain wrote: »

I'm sure that pets for all class could be a very good idea, but don't do unkillable pets anymore

but an unkillable mudcrab would be awesome!

FearAndPatching · August 2017

You all do realize your still going to be crying about sorcs even if they were to nerf Necro right? Besides nobody is gonna care about QQ OP Necro wahh in a couple weeks when we get "Horns of the Torags Pact"

bebynnag · August 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

puffytheslayer wrote: »

the simple fact is ANY stamina user can use hulking regardless of their build, even HA PvP DD's can the set & still have 5-7 HA pieces (depending on weapon choices)

only 3 of the 5 classes are able to use necropotence
so before you nerf necropotence why not give DK's & templars some pets (dragons & idk mudcrabs respectively)

Use set that spawns something :P

but dont nerf necro, jsut gimme set that is stronger than other with these very hard to deal requirements (having pet), I will carry this burden on my stam warden with netch.

ssshhhhh dont tell anyone but my comment "before you nerf necropotence why not give DK's & templars some pets" is supposed to be buying me time before they nerf my gear, because you know they are going to give in to the necroMoaners eventually, but you also know it would take them months if not years to create pets for DKs & Temps

Jamascus · August 2017

PlautisCarvain wrote: »

Is there any set that gives, like necropotence, a boots of 4K stamina (or 3k minimum)?

Not in the same fashion. As others have said, there are a couple that do similar things. It's ok though. There are far more useful stamina sets than magicka sets and when you factor in the abortion that is proc sets, the difference is astronomical.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · August 2017

Imperial physique

red_emu · August 2017

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

First we would need a stamina pet...

We kinda do have a Stam bear on a warden but the game is very vague which one is better for mag and which one for Stam. And nowhere says what bear damage scales off.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · August 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

But why focus on stacking stamina? Weapon damage tends to be more impactful these days, it synergizes with medium armor and fighters guild, and buffs light and heavy attacks a lot more than stamina.

Sure, focus on stacking weapon damage. But where is set for that? Medium armor sets are behind heavy armor sets at raw weapon damage and those heavy are usually proc related. There are only few sets that have 2 wep damage bonuses and none that has 3 let alone 4. It will be very interesting to see what becomes meta after the proc set vacuum and if it is not some heavy armor like ravager or some hidden underfed procset.

There are 12 sets that have 2 wep damage bonuses, 9 of them have it on 5th piece.
Six of those 12 are medium armor. One is craftable. Only one set applies the weapon damage to at least 90% of your damage with 100% uptime and that is Automaton. Sword singer is possibly close. Both of those are worse than Necro is for most magicka users.

It is obviously based on balance so no complaining for me that I get treated worse or anything, but it just feels stupid how weaker the stats sets are over necro.

//EDIT:
FYI while wep damage synergizes better than stat on stam builds it is not by too much. Redguard in CP is running with 32% boost to stamina and (with agility, major brutality and one fighter guild skill) 35% boost to wep damage

It's just my novice opinion, but I always thought it was weird that magicka classes focus so heavily on piling up 50k magicka and leaving spell damage down around 2500ish when they rely so heavily on heavy staff attacks as part of their rotation.

As a comparison, take a look at 2H build with ravager (weapon+jewelry+1 piece heavy armor) and Hundings vs Bone Pirates and Draugr Hulk.

When you're surrounded by mobs, ravager procs like crazy, you can get 70% uptime. Each light attack with the weapon damage build deals 40,000 distributed damage because of the 2H forceful passive.

If Draugr and Bone pirate are equipped, now the light attacks deal something like 30,000 distributed damage. The skill damage alone with a max stam setup is also a bit worse than the weapon damage setup, especially in this scenario with 70% ravager uptime. Perhaps skills would deal more damage with a Redguard Warden Stamina beast, but the average damage (skills + light attacks) would need to be considered because light attacks account for 15-25% of the damage.

They arent stacking 50k magicka when they build for heavy attack damage in PVE (I presume) and in PVP you arent building around light attack damage. You get both defense and offense from stacking max magicka plus you have access to to stuff that increases your max magicka even more, so it is pretty obvious route to take. Really the only thing you dont get on magicka build stacking max magicka is the light/heavy attack damage

//edit:
Not to mention it is difficult to stack spell damage. More difficult than stack weapon damage and from personal experience that is already pretty difficult if you use bow (which has same limitations as staves and the only thing it gets is 12% agility bonus and some pocket % from fighters guild passive) You are looking at 3k spell damage on magicka build with staff that goes the spell damage route instead of magicka. Zero of these 500 more goes to shields and neither to two popular healing types (surge and healing ward)

Healing ward takes spell damage into consideration, only ward in the game that does.

Gargath · August 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

you have to lock up a slot on both bars with an annoying pet if you want 100% uptime with necro though, I think that's a fair trade.

Only the daedric parrot is annoying, while the volatile familiar is (was more before last nerf) useful when you are outnumbered and desperately need more aoe damage. Familiar isn't annoying at all, it's just sad that ZOS decresed it's aoe damage so much with last patch

.

Eweroun · August 2017

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

First we would need a stamina pet...

I suggest a..... troll

just as an easter-egg to all you stamboys whining on the forum for so long...

(in my opinion it would be boring if al sets have a mirror on stam and mag...)