Alright, so... here's another fresh idea on how to buff medium armour's survivability.
Many of you have floated the idea of making Shuffle require 5x Medium Armor to use. But what if instead of doing that, we'd revamp Shuffle entirely?
Here's the deal: as it stands, Shuffle somewhat ironically benefits medium armor the least (now, before you say anything - I know it's used by probably over half the medium armor builds and is still a strong skill), as you're already dodging attacks more than light/heavy users with dodge roll, and Shuffle's 20% dodge chance is essentially useless during that period.
This makes light/heavy armor get more dodges/value out of the skill.
Now, what if Major Evasion was passively granted to Medium Armor instead?
Medium Armor
- Dexterity: Increases your Weapon Critical rating by 328 for each piece of Medium Armor equipped. Grants you Major Evasion for 1 seconds after you use Roll Dodge. Duration is increased by 1 second for each piece of Medium Armor worn.
This would give some value & purpose to dodge rolling, even when you're being hit by undodgeable things.
But that's not all. Since we've now removed Major Evasion from Shuffle, we can replace it with something else.
Something like an instant heal to along with the snare/root immunity.
This would reduce the dependency of 2H from which most stamina builds suffer (though you'd still have Rally as a valid burst heal alternative with heal over time/Major Brutality buff).
It would also make magicka NBs more unique as the only class with access to Major Evasion (without equipping medium armor or specific item set like Gossamer or Spectre's Eye).
Let me know what you think, I'll add this idea to the original post
Alright, so... here's another fresh idea on how to buff medium armour's survivability.
Many of you have floated the idea of making Shuffle require 5x Medium Armor to use. But what if instead of doing that, we'd revamp Shuffle entirely?
Here's the deal: as it stands, Shuffle somewhat ironically benefits medium armor the least (now, before you say anything - I know it's used by probably over half the medium armor builds and is still a strong skill), as you're already dodging attacks more than light/heavy users with dodge roll, and Shuffle's 20% dodge chance is essentially useless during that period.
This makes light/heavy armor get more dodges/value out of the skill.
Now, what if Major Evasion was passively granted to Medium Armor instead?
Medium Armor
- Dexterity: Increases your Weapon Critical rating by 328 for each piece of Medium Armor equipped. Grants you Major Evasion for 1 seconds after you use Roll Dodge. Duration is increased by 1 second for each piece of Medium Armor worn.
This would give some value & purpose to dodge rolling, even when you're being hit by undodgeable things.
But that's not all. Since we've now removed Major Evasion from Shuffle, we can replace it with something else.
Something like an instant heal to along with the snare/root immunity.
This would reduce the dependency of 2H from which most stamina builds suffer (though you'd still have Rally as a valid burst heal alternative with heal over time/Major Brutality buff).
It would also make magicka NBs more unique as the only class with access to Major Evasion (without equipping medium armor or specific item set like Gossamer or Spectre's Eye).
Let me know what you think, I'll add this idea to the original post
Alright, so... here's another fresh idea on how to buff medium armour's survivability.
Many of you have floated the idea of making Shuffle require 5x Medium Armor to use. But what if instead of doing that, we'd revamp Shuffle entirely?
Here's the deal: as it stands, Shuffle somewhat ironically benefits medium armor the least (now, before you say anything - I know it's used by probably over half the medium armor builds and is still a strong skill), as you're already dodging attacks more than light/heavy users with dodge roll, and Shuffle's 20% dodge chance is essentially useless during that period.
This makes light/heavy armor get more dodges/value out of the skill.
Now, what if Major Evasion was passively granted to Medium Armor instead?
Medium Armor
- Dexterity: Increases your Weapon Critical rating by 328 for each piece of Medium Armor equipped. Grants you Major Evasion for 1 seconds after you use Roll Dodge. Duration is increased by 1 second for each piece of Medium Armor worn.
This would give some value & purpose to dodge rolling, even when you're being hit by undodgeable things.
But that's not all. Since we've now removed Major Evasion from Shuffle, we can replace it with something else.
Something like an instant heal to along with the snare/root immunity.
This would reduce the dependency of 2H from which most stamina builds suffer (though you'd still have Rally as a valid burst heal alternative with heal over time/Major Brutality buff).
It would also make magicka NBs more unique as the only class with access to Major Evasion (without equipping medium armor or specific item set like Gossamer or Spectre's Eye).
Let me know what you think, I'll add this idea to the original post
RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »As long as dodge roll continues to function like this with an absolutely ridiclious iframe window, Medium Armor should not be touched. You look at that gif...after standing up from the roll he sidesteps and dodges everything for nearly a whole second...you combine that with Major Evasions and its flat out broken!
I am all about giving Medium Armor some love, as soon as those iframe windows on Dodge roll is changed. The moment you leave the roll, dodging should stop, not nearly a second after....
RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »As long as dodge roll continues to function like this with an absolutely ridiclious iframe window, Medium Armor should not be touched. You look at that gif...after standing up from the roll he sidesteps and dodges everything for nearly a whole second...you combine that with Major Evasions and its flat out broken!
I am all about giving Medium Armor some love, as soon as those iframe windows on Dodge roll is changed. The moment you leave the roll, dodging should stop, not nearly a second after....
RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »1.6 has nothing to do with it because the dodge roll window remains the same
The only reason he dies is because of resto heavies, power of the light, and Radiant destruction everything else was dodged for about 0.5 secs after coming out of the roll.
That needs to be changed and if it is I'd concede to nearly everything suggested here to help medium armor
Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@RinaldoGandolphi It does make a difference, cause if it was this patch he would have died to cliff racer spam at the very start of the video
RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »1.6 has nothing to do with it because the dodge roll window remains the same
The only reason he dies is because of resto heavies, power of the light, and Radiant destruction everything else was dodged for about 0.5 secs after coming out of the roll.
That needs to be changed and if it is I'd concede to nearly everything suggested here to help medium armor
Strider_Roshin wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »1.6 has nothing to do with it because the dodge roll window remains the same
The only reason he dies is because of resto heavies, power of the light, and Radiant destruction everything else was dodged for about 0.5 secs after coming out of the roll.
That needs to be changed and if it is I'd concede to nearly everything suggested here to help medium armor
If you've read my feedback on dodge rolling you'll know that I share this opinion. Dodge rolling needs to be a viable defense again. It needs to dodge everything except for ground AoEs. With that said if you're not rolling, you shouldn't be dodging; meaning we need to get those i-frames adjusted. I would also like to see RNG dodging disappear and have evasion replaced with snare+root immunity.
There's a huge unfair disadvantage when using medium armor that needs to be rectified. And if ZOS wants to keep us stamina players they need to address it.
Medium armor is a relic. It's a throwback from the game as it was 2 years ago. The amount of damage being thrown around has rendered it obsolete. Not to mention how many things can no longer be countered. Soul Assault alone melts medium armor users and if you block it, chances are you won't have any stamina left to survive afterwards. Whether you buff medium or start nerfing a lot of abilities, I don't care, but something needs to be done.
Soul Assault has always melted MA users. Before the "buff", it was unblockable.
Vercingetorix wrote: »Medium armor doesn't need anything. If you are engaging enemies outside of stealth, then you are doing it wrong. Medium is about burst and stealth - not fighting out in the open. You don't have to worry about proc sets or "unavoidable" damage because ALL damage is avoidable when you are sneaking and not running around exposed in the open.
Sounds more like the folks who decided to use medium need to L2P. If you want to engage enemies out in the open and use stamina, you need more defense: it's called heavy armor. Light armor folks have shields and that's their "dodge" - they dip into their damaging resource to also defend, just like stamina does. They are balanced.
Stop asking for handouts. No amount of buffs or nerfs will improve your gameplay. Will you just end up losing to something else. L2P and improve your skill. If Stamina NB's around the world are topping the Leaderboards in Cyrodiil, clearly you are doing something wrong, OP.
Vercingetorix wrote: »Medium armor doesn't need anything. If you are engaging enemies outside of stealth, then you are doing it wrong. Medium is about burst and stealth - not fighting out in the open. You don't have to worry about proc sets or "unavoidable" damage because ALL damage is avoidable when you are sneaking and not running around exposed in the open.
Sounds more like the folks who decided to use medium need to L2P. If you want to engage enemies out in the open and use stamina, you need more defense: it's called heavy armor. Light armor folks have shields and that's their "dodge" - they dip into their damaging resource to also defend, just like stamina does. They are balanced.
Stop asking for handouts. No amount of buffs or nerfs will improve your gameplay. Will you just end up losing to something else. L2P and improve your skill. If Stamina NB's around the world are topping the Leaderboards in Cyrodiil, clearly you are doing something wrong, OP.
Vercingetorix wrote: »Medium armor doesn't need anything. If you are engaging enemies outside of stealth, then you are doing it wrong. Medium is about burst and stealth - not fighting out in the open. You don't have to worry about proc sets or "unavoidable" damage because ALL damage is avoidable when you are sneaking and not running around exposed in the open.
Sounds more like the folks who decided to use medium need to L2P. If you want to engage enemies out in the open and use stamina, you need more defense: it's called heavy armor. Light armor folks have shields and that's their "dodge" - they dip into their damaging resource to also defend, just like stamina does. They are balanced.
Stop asking for handouts. No amount of buffs or nerfs will improve your gameplay. Will you just end up losing to something else. L2P and improve your skill. If Stamina NB's around the world are topping the Leaderboards in Cyrodiil, clearly you are doing something wrong, OP.
Strider_Roshin wrote: »Honestly everyone I feel like our input is falling on deaf ears. We've all thought of great ideas on how to make medium competitive in PvP, but quite frankly I don't think ZOS gives a damn. And since this is their game we pretty much have to play the way they want us to play or get pissed off kicking against the goads.
Strider_Roshin wrote: »Honestly everyone I feel like our input is falling on deaf ears. We've all thought of great ideas on how to make medium competitive in PvP, but quite frankly I don't think ZOS gives a damn. And since this is their game we pretty much have to play the way they want us to play or get pissed off kicking against the goads.
You all offered good ideas. But what for? I still do not understand which issue OP means.
Recently, an almost perfect balance has been formed between types of armor. And you want to make some changes for... the sake of changes? I do not think it's worth it. Apparently, the developers too.
As we all know, medium armor hasn't really been on the same power level as heavy (or light) for a long time.
A lot of this has to do with the evergrowing list of skills that ignore the dodge mechanic entirely (most recently Warden, which deals almost entirely undodgeable damage). This leaves medium armor users in a space, where you lack the armor mitigation from heavy, you lack the healing received from heavy passives and you don't really get anything in return as most of the passives have to do with (increasingly useless) dodge roll cost & stamina costs rather than surviving/outhealing damage.
This is without even diving into the set meta, where heavy armor has much stronger options available that allow you to stack weapon damage much higher than any medium armor build, which simultaneously also increases the healing done by heavy armor builds (that gets further increased by Rapid Mending heavy armor passive) - all while maintaining that mitigation medium lacks.
Vercingetorix wrote: »Medium armor doesn't need anything. If you are engaging enemies outside of stealth, then you are doing it wrong. Medium is about burst and stealth - not fighting out in the open. You don't have to worry about proc sets or "unavoidable" damage because ALL damage is avoidable when you are sneaking and not running around exposed in the open.
Sounds more like the folks who decided to use medium need to L2P. If you want to engage enemies out in the open and use stamina, you need more defense: it's called heavy armor. Light armor folks have shields and that's their "dodge" - they dip into their damaging resource to also defend, just like stamina does. They are balanced.
Stop asking for handouts. No amount of buffs or nerfs will improve your gameplay. Will you just end up losing to something else. L2P and improve your skill. If Stamina NB's around the world are topping the Leaderboards in Cyrodiil, clearly you are doing something wrong, OP.
RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@RinaldoGandolphi It does make a difference, cause if it was this patch he would have died to cliff racer spam at the very start of the video
Well Cliff Racer is its own kinda broken though.
It ignores dodge roll, it also ignores the Damage Absorbing effect of Ball of Lighting despite the fact that damage shields, Absorb Magic from Sword and sheild, and Crystlaized Shield all absorb it...i bugged it hoping for consistency, but good luck with that though.
Cliff Racer spam effects all all equally.
But do let me know if I can somehow elaborate.
Main problem is the uselessness of medium armor's main (and only, in most cases) form of defense, dodge roll, as most skills in the game are undodgeable these days.
Back when the game actually was almost perfectly balanced between the armor types, dodge roll accomplished something, it prevented most of the incoming damage - just like sorcerer shields, or heavy armor mitigation.
But do let me know if I can somehow elaborate.
Main problem is the uselessness of medium armor's main (and only, in most cases) form of defense, dodge roll, as most skills in the game are undodgeable these days.
Back when the game actually was almost perfectly balanced between the armor types, dodge roll accomplished something, it prevented most of the incoming damage - just like sorcerer shields, or heavy armor mitigation.
This is already a more significant topic for discussion. The problem is not in medium armor, but in undodgeable attacks.
I think there are several skills that create this problem. Soul Strike (should be interruptible), Dive (should be dodgeable). Maybe I forgot something else.
AOEs and Backlash shouldn't be dodgeable by design. Puncturing Strikes shouldn't be dodgeable just because it is easy to escape from.
About Rapid Fire, I can not unequivocally say. Maybe it should work as Soul Strike (interruptible but not dodgeable). But it makes problem with Ballista which cannot be interrupted.
I am convinced that all other "problems" are only l2p issue. I played in medium armor, even when heavy armor was considered too strong, and I hadn't any problems. Now, after a series of nerfs, there is generally no domination of one type over another.
Maybe medium armor just does not suit people for their style of play