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So it seems the Morrowind balance changes were not very popular afterall
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I also wouldn't have any particular regard to Steam's numbers which represent a tiny and unrepresentative share of the overall playerbase.
Tiny, yes, but not unrepresentative. For that to be true, you'd need to identify some singular element of owning the game on Steam which would make users more or less likely to use it on that platform, that doesn't also apply to others.
For example: if Steam offered free ESO+ to all their users, that would result in skewed values there.
Another example: Funcom's launch of Secret World Legends has been plagued by serious issues with their payment processor, resulting in an adversely favorable view of operating the game via Steam's market (once it's actually up and running there).
But, without factors like that, Steam becomes just another potential venue for the game to be played through. It would be like saying, "players who bought their game at Target are a tiny and unrepresentative share of the overall playerbase." The former is (probably) true, the latter isn't.
Now, if you mean that there's a significant margin for error because of the sample size on Steam... then, no. There's enough people playing via that to push the margin for error of their growth and drops not (roughly) matching the overall community's to around .6%.
One factor that does mess with this a little are Steam sales. But, if things were really as grim as some members of the boards would like to claim, then you still wouldn't see growth on those metrics. Spikes? Sure, but no actual growth.2 -
witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭OP presumes that his metric, even if valid, matches his theory that it is due to Morrowind changes.1 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bombashaman wrote: »Maybe summer and holidays?
This.Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »itscompton wrote: »
April had a free to play week that inflated the numbers but they stayed well above a 9k player average until 1 month after the balance chances. And shouldn't the release of a piece of content so big it's not included in the sub-model DLC agreement keep people interested for more than 1 month?Or the numbers could just be returning to normal after the huge increase in April.
And it has. Numbers are back to normal. That aside you are assuming a correlation that may not be.
Holy cow, in one year 700+ people died from their sheets....
I dunno if I'm gonna keep my sheets...
Scary ain't it!
and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »itscompton wrote: »
April had a free to play week that inflated the numbers but they stayed well above a 9k player average until 1 month after the balance chances. And shouldn't the release of a piece of content so big it's not included in the sub-model DLC agreement keep people interested for more than 1 month?Or the numbers could just be returning to normal after the huge increase in April.
And it has. Numbers are back to normal. That aside you are assuming a correlation that may not be.
Holy cow, in one year 700+ people died from their sheets....
I dunno if I'm gonna keep my sheets...
Scary ain't it!
Well, I mean, you know what they say, 735% of all statistics are made up.0 -
neal_brasier✭✭✭OOh, what a *** surprise.
The changes that we pointed out to be ***, were actually ***?
Omg i would have never believed it.
This is the about the 4th month that i stopped playing, and i intend to keep it that way as long as i don't see some of this *** reverted.
There was an enormous backlash after the patch notes, zenimax decided to do fuckall, these are the results.
You haven't been playing for 4 months but you're still on the forums?3 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »I also wouldn't have any particular regard to Steam's numbers which represent a tiny and unrepresentative share of the overall playerbase.
Tiny, yes, but not unrepresentative. For that to be true, you'd need to identify some singular element of owning the game on Steam which would make users more or less likely to use it on that platform, that doesn't also apply to others.
For example: if Steam offered free ESO+ to all their users, that would result in skewed values there.
Another example: Funcom's launch of Secret World Legends has been plagued by serious issues with their payment processor, resulting in an adversely favorable view of operating the game via Steam's market (once it's actually up and running there).
But, without factors like that, Steam becomes just another potential venue for the game to be played through. It would be like saying, "players who bought their game at Target are a tiny and unrepresentative share of the overall playerbase." The former is (probably) true, the latter isn't.
Now, if you mean that there's a significant margin for error because of the sample size on Steam... then, no. There's enough people playing via that to push the margin for error of their growth and drops not (roughly) matching the overall community's to around .6%.
One factor that does mess with this a little are Steam sales. But, if things were really as grim as some members of the boards would like to claim, then you still wouldn't see growth on those metrics. Spikes? Sure, but no actual growth.
Sorry but once you segregate out a subset of the populace based on one element, the onus for "representative" shifts to needing to show your subset IS representative.
Now I personally do not know whether Stream is representative population compared to all purchasers, but as soon as you exclude whole identifiable subsets based on a shared quality instead of representative distribution the claim to being representative is lost until proven.
Throwing out all non- stream users is maybe as "representative" as throwing out all female players.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."2 -
Krayzie✭✭✭✭✭After all? Yea, they weren't popular to begin with....I'm a PVE roleplayer concerned about my vampires stage 4 skin tone and keep getting load screens so I came here to distract people from major issues with a rant thread about my characters cosmetic appearance.3 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭itscompton wrote: »According to http://steamcharts.com/app/306130 the average number of concurrent players has dropped by over 15% when comparing July to June. April and May also had much stronger numbers. Perhaps when large portions of the player base tell the Developers changes they intend to make will ruin class identity and the overall enjoyability of the game they shouldn't stubbornly put them into practice just to show they're in charge.
You think.. ha ha. I haven't seen a lot of toons (name of players) I usually see often, prior to Morrowind. I thought maybe they were otherwise engaged in Vv, but been a couple months now and still don't see them about and around that I would otherwise. However, they'll come back. They always come back. ESO is "The Ring" or "Destination" of video game/MMO. You can't escape it. It's got you whatever you go..
The game (PvE, at least; don't know much about on the PvP side of the house) has since been flooded with new bloods. Lowbies everywhere. You can seemingly tell, though, which are really new players or those veterans who created a new toon. It is crazy running into lowbies (who haven't grasp how to really dps yet) at dolmen and world bosses. Ha haEdited by GreenhaloX on July 30, 2017 11:40AM0 -
Bonzodog01✭✭✭✭✭GreenhaloX wrote: »
The game (PvE, at least; don't know much about on the PvP side of the house) has since been flooded with new bloods. Lowbies everywhere. You can seemingly tell, though, which are really new players or those veterans who created a new toon. It is crazy running into lowbies (who haven't grasp how to really dps yet) at dolmen and world bosses. Ha ha
Heh..yeah "But..but..light attacking with a staff wearing heavy armor always worked for me in Skyrim!!".
Xbox One - EU - EP/DCTrying and failing to hold the walls of his Templar house up since 20150 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bonzodog01 wrote: »GreenhaloX wrote: »
The game (PvE, at least; don't know much about on the PvP side of the house) has since been flooded with new bloods. Lowbies everywhere. You can seemingly tell, though, which are really new players or those veterans who created a new toon. It is crazy running into lowbies (who haven't grasp how to really dps yet) at dolmen and world bosses. Ha ha
Heh..yeah "But..but..light attacking with a staff wearing heavy armor always worked for me in Skyrim!!".
This ain't (or isn't; to be grammatically correct) Skyrim! Ha ha. However, throwing a good HA on a sorc does work, since Morrowind patch. Still good dps and majicka pool/recovery while getting a lot more resistance with the HA. I use it for my sorc, and I'm liking it. I would still die more often than I would like before while following on the traditional LA for a sorc. Hey, I'm not a master sorc.. It has been much better to solo dungeons and world bosses with an HA sorc. Try it out, HA.. those who haven't.
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JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭neal_brasier wrote: »OOh, what a *** surprise.
The changes that we pointed out to be ***, were actually ***?
Omg i would have never believed it.
This is the about the 4th month that i stopped playing, and i intend to keep it that way as long as i don't see some of this *** reverted.
There was an enormous backlash after the patch notes, zenimax decided to do fuckall, these are the results.
You haven't been playing for 4 months but you're still on the forums?
Yes, got a problem with that?
I come on some times to look if there have been some changes.Edited by JinMori on July 30, 2017 10:59PM1 -
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »itscompton wrote: »According to http://steamcharts.com/app/306130 the average number of concurrent players has dropped by over 15% when comparing July to June. April and May also had much stronger numbers. Perhaps when large portions of the player base tell the Developers changes they intend to make will ruin class identity and the overall enjoyability of the game they shouldn't stubbornly put them into practice just to show they're in charge.
As someone who's spent a lot of time looking at MMO metrics... wow, that's actually pretty good. I mean, we do have those free weekends messing with the metrics, but the game's overall population (on Steam) has gone up. It's almost 60% higher than it was this time last year. As MMOs go, that's almost unheard of. Usually you bleed numbers and never get them back, but ESO's actually showing some growth.
Actually in November of last year Steam started allowing people to link their non-steam copies of the game to their Steam account, thus the seemingly large jump in population.0 -
GodHawk✭✭I mean, its only steam charts, they are lot more players that bought the game in the site.0 -
Vrienda✭✭✭✭✭
✭This might come as a surprise, but most players don't care about balance changes.
We adapt, change our build a little and carry on playing as if nothing had changed. If you focus too much on damage numbers and sustain changes then things will just become depressing.Desperate for Roleplaying servers to bring open world non-organised RP to Elder Scrolls Online. Please ZOS.2 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Best update yet, with an even better update just about to come.
ZOS has shown they have a clear vision for the future of the game, and they implement changes accordingly.
In my experience, that is far more valuable than a reactive approach to development, with no plans for the future.
If only ZOS was so effective at fixing broken mechanics and bugs.2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »I also wouldn't have any particular regard to Steam's numbers which represent a tiny and unrepresentative share of the overall playerbase.
Tiny, yes, but not unrepresentative. For that to be true, you'd need to identify some singular element of owning the game on Steam which would make users more or less likely to use it on that platform, that doesn't also apply to others.
For example: if Steam offered free ESO+ to all their users, that would result in skewed values there.
Another example: Funcom's launch of Secret World Legends has been plagued by serious issues with their payment processor, resulting in an adversely favorable view of operating the game via Steam's market (once it's actually up and running there).
But, without factors like that, Steam becomes just another potential venue for the game to be played through. It would be like saying, "players who bought their game at Target are a tiny and unrepresentative share of the overall playerbase." The former is (probably) true, the latter isn't.
Now, if you mean that there's a significant margin for error because of the sample size on Steam... then, no. There's enough people playing via that to push the margin for error of their growth and drops not (roughly) matching the overall community's to around .6%.
One factor that does mess with this a little are Steam sales. But, if things were really as grim as some members of the boards would like to claim, then you still wouldn't see growth on those metrics. Spikes? Sure, but no actual growth.
It's unrepresentative firstly because it applies only to PC, so whatever is going on with the console players (probably two-thirds of the playerbase if the report by ZOS that the population remains evenly split between the platforms remains true) won't be represented at all in Steam statistics, and secondly because the most committed players tend to be the ones from beta and PC launch when Steam wasn't an option, while those players who have opted subsequently to play through Steam are likely to be more committed to Steam-based games with a large library of installed games to flit between and may be more fickle in that respect. They may also be less committed to MMORPGs which over the years have not been as well represented on Steam as other types of game and so Steam tends to attract a different kind of player.
The Steam statistics are interesting but not especially significant. Then again, no game population statistics are particularly relevant at the height of Summer.0 -
capper123✭✭balance changes are always for pvp, i sometimes get so p#ssed what i have to go through this crap as a pve player. Just wish they would do the right thing SEPERATE.0
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capper123✭✭Best update yet, with an even better update just about to come.
ZOS has shown they have a clear vision for PVP in the future of the game, and they implement changes accordingly.
In my experience, that is far more valuable than a reactive approach to development, with no plans for the future.
If only ZOS was so effective at fixing broken mechanics and bugs.
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Insandros✭✭✭✭the game was flooded with new people that came at the start of the year when morrowind was first announced and when you preordered it gave you a copy of the game.
the numbers have been slightly bloated because of that, its not surprising many leave weeks after DLC comes out (for any game)
you get an influx of players pre and during DLC launch to check out the new stuff, then a downturn as players complete the DLC and move on to something else.
once more content comes out you will again see another peak before players move on again.
repeat this forever.
Don't forget we also had a few free ESO Plus tryout, which might also attracted some people then left afterward.0 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would imagine the Steam players are only a small fraction of PC players, I know I play on PC but not through Steam.0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Oh god another one..... dude just look at the trader guild merchants inflation.... just look... do you really think that's some random spike? There's like a ton of new people. Not to mention i meet about 3 times more newbies than I used to wherever I go.0 -
Rickter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭All of this:Paulington wrote: »April and May are showing the effects of the free to play week that happened in April.
Do bear in mind that Steam is a miniscule part of the player base. The majority of players are on console, not PC, and in my experience less than 10% of players are playing via Steam. In my worthless anecdotal evidence, the game is busier than ever (outside of free to play weeks) and I see a lot of stuff going on.
Some of these changes had to be made. It was ridiculous that I could go full damage in a setup and not even worry about magicka, 75% magicka or more all the time in a full spell damage setup, it took away resource management as part of the game. Now you just build around it and barely anything changes.
.
Hopefully some balance changes and the upcoming Horns of the Reach and Clockwork City DLCs will draw players in. A lot of people I know are just getting a bit burnt out and that's fine..
I cannot understand why there are so many of you on these forums that try day in and day out to convince everyone else that they shouldnt like ESO - just leave the game, PLEASE!
I would rather have a room full of rose tinted glasses wearers than see another doomsday garbage thread created. you have no evidence, and the "evidence" you do have is so subjective its laughable.
threads like this directly overshadow more important things like suggestions on tabard reworks, for example. Threads like these should be labelled as "quitting threads" and locked as per violation of the ToS.RickterESO
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vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭All of this:Paulington wrote: »April and May are showing the effects of the free to play week that happened in April.
Do bear in mind that Steam is a miniscule part of the player base. The majority of players are on console, not PC, and in my experience less than 10% of players are playing via Steam. In my worthless anecdotal evidence, the game is busier than ever (outside of free to play weeks) and I see a lot of stuff going on.
Some of these changes had to be made. It was ridiculous that I could go full damage in a setup and not even worry about magicka, 75% magicka or more all the time in a full spell damage setup, it took away resource management as part of the game. Now you just build around it and barely anything changes..
Hopefully some balance changes and the upcoming Horns of the Reach and Clockwork City DLCs will draw players in. A lot of people I know are just getting a bit burnt out and that's fine..
I cannot understand why there are so many of you on these forums that try day in and day out to convince everyone else that they shouldnt like ESO - just leave the game, PLEASE!
I would rather have a room full of rose tinted glasses wearers than see another doomsday garbage thread created. you have no evidence, and the "evidence" you do have is so subjective its laughable.
threads like this directly overshadow more important things like suggestions on tabard reworks, for example. Threads like these should be labelled as "quitting threads" and locked as per violation of the ToS.
You had me until important things like Tabard reworks.
Sneaky troll is sneaky.0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Actually 15% of steam's ESO players figured out that playing ESO through steam is redundant. Like wearing two pairs of flip flops at the same time.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Biggest issue with the new gameplay is how you are able to regen resources in this patch. The nerfs to sustain were added to get rid of the unlimited resource meta and the changes worked beautifully for stam. Stam has to fit in several heavy attacks into a rotation to sustain forever. It works amazingly well, but in a large part due to the fact that heavy attacking is often not a huge DPS loss and in fact a DPS gain in certain instances. The same thing can definitely not be said about magicka. The resource drain on magicka is more severe AND the heavy attacks quite aggressively drop DPS. the shorter durations of many DoTs also make it less favorable to heavy attack, since there is less space in a rotation for it. A good solution would be to adjust the heavy attack duration to be closer to that of Stam. This would make it easier for magicka to compete.1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭balance changes are always for pvp, i sometimes get so p#ssed what i have to go through this crap as a pve player. Just wish they would do the right thing SEPERATE.
The sustain changes were PvE related as much (or more) as they were PvP. ZoS didn't like that people were running solo through the end game content.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
Absolut_Turkey✭✭✭ROFL. When the op tries to use data to show that the Morrowind update was bad for ESO, but instead does the opposite. "A" for effort. And no, the changes to sustain were for the BETTER. L2P.Edited by Absolut_Turkey on July 31, 2017 5:57PMOmniel Morningstar - Khajiit - Nightblade
Veyron Galerion - Altmer - Sorcerer
Star-Caller - Argonian - Templar
Aradriel Nightwood - Bosmer - Warden
Vermillion Alexander - Imperial - Dragonknight0
