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What are some reasons for making Mag Sorcs so OP ?
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ParaNostram✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've been playing a sorc since beta, I've seen the class rise and fall. I've seen days when the sorc was so dirt useless that we'd be autokicked from groups in PvE and in PvP we'd be practically be free AP. I've seen them when they were absolute gods before the shield nerf and the streak nerf. I've seen the days of unkillable DKs and Templars rolling face and getting a win.
If you think sorcs are OP now or some class is underperforming now, then my sweet summer child you haven't seen balance issues yet. The game will never be balanced.
A good sorc player can kill most anyone, it is true. Then again, so can the skilled NB coming out of stealth, the skilled DK endure whatever comes, the skilled Templar, and especially the skilled Warden. Personally, I feel as though the Warden has greater burst damage potential. Now then, the skilled player can survive any of this, with effort yes but it can be done.
There are ways to beat a sorc, you just need to be aware of their strengths and weaknesses and play around them. Same as any other class."Your mistake is you begged for your life, not for mercy. I will show you there are many fates worse than death."
Para Nostram
Bosmer Sorceress
Witch of Evermore
"Death is a privilege that can be denied by it's learned scholars."
Order of the Black Worm5 -
Malmai✭✭✭✭✭
✭
What makes them op is build they can run with high regen, amber is so op
Newsflash not if you are veteran player... And please u are just dirty Mag Sorc using freeride. Mr 2016.0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Gotta love all the bs coming from people who say Sorc isn't the most powerful class in pvp. Stop kidding yourself guys, the class is so easy to play it's unreal. In duels they are completely broken. Especially petsorcs in combination with their shields. It's so hard to kill them compared to other classes and they still do as much dmg as anyone with 3 abilities. You can kill them, but you have to do everything exactly right.5 -
GreyWolf_79✭✭✭✭Massive_Stain wrote: »Unless you are living under a rock for a while, you would know Mag Sorcs are #1.
Mag Sorcs are "disgustingly powerful" (quoting Deltia).
http://deltiasgaming.com/eso-magic-sorcerer-dps-build/
I personally believe ZOS has made Mag Sorcs so OP so that people with not-so-prime reflexes (like our grandparents) can taste MMORPG.
They would now be able to participate in VMA and come out unscathed and overall feel happy about themselves.
It is quite hard for those fine folks to compete with others in games like GW2, WoW etc so in order to lure those senior citizens ZOS has introduced Mag Sorc.
So kudos indeed ZOS for providing such a valuable service to our geriatric community.
So why do you think Mag Sorcs are made so OP ???
So, to prove your "point", you alienate a demographic of people that you will eventually turn into?
In fairness, not everyone eventually turns into a senior citizen.
We all should be so lucky. Some people die before they get the chance.
There is my obligatory "dark" post for the day. Enjoy.
And happy aging!0 -
Phreeki✭✭✭Sorcs are perceived as OP (PvP context) because there are tons of bad to mediocre players who have deluded themselves into thinking they are half way decent.
This all day long.
It's mostly nightblades that complain about "sorcs being op" because they have no idea why snipe spamming someone with a shield doesn't work.
Every single class in this game can gain access to shields.
Good players can handle sorcs, if you can't....well then the problem is not the sorc.......3 -
Shad0wfire99✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorcs have pretty much no group support skills or passives. They are a damage class. Simple as that.
XBox NA2 -
MajBludd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree with mag sorcs having great burst and survivability. I do think you should be able to crit on shields. I also think shields cost should increase with each use.1 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Shad0wfire99 wrote: »Sorcs have pretty much no group support skills or passives. They are a damage class. Simple as that.
The same could be said for Nightblades except Nightblades don't have nearly as good survivability, streak > cloak, and their burst is much more difficult to line up.
As many have echoed in the past: anything a Nightblade can do a sorc can do better
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Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Shad0wfire99 wrote: »Sorcs have pretty much no group support skills or passives. They are a damage class. Simple as that.
Negate.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Electrone_Magnus wrote: »It has the worst self heals by far
You've clearly never seen a necropotence pet sorc before.. and the rest just uses the cheap resto ulti (cheaper for a sorc, because of passives)... the ulti everyone claimed was bad / terrible when they first introduced it. People clearly dropped the ball on that one :P
And if that's not enough heals yet... zap away and Dark Deal to give both HP and magicka.
And if you need even more heals.. keep surge up.
needless to say.. the statement that sorcs have the worst self heals is a bit "biased".
Whatever, when I read the PTS I stated, "one of the best ults in game"
Can't believe it took this long for people to catch on0 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Despite not having a class spammable, sorcs have damage-increasing passives, including one thag increases weapon and spell damage with each sorc ability slotted. They have pets which do huge damage in pve. For pvp, they have a cheap and strong shield, high burst, and plenty of ways to get away (boundless storm+streak). Not to mention their executes. It seems Mage's Wrath/Endless Fury is not only cheaper but harder-hitting than other executes in-game. Also, the other passives such as 15% ultimate cost reduction, reduced cost of stam and magicka skills, magicka recovery, implosion, and whatnot all give them an edge over the other classes."Buzz Lightyear toy isle shot" Stormcalling/Animal Companions/Assassination PVP build hater
Bring Back Pure Class Build Power0 -
SnubbS✭✭✭✭✭In PvP MagSorc damage is fine—it's the shield stacking that needs done away with. It doesn't need to be nerfed—that's the wrong word, nerfing usually makes things useless and annoying. It needs to be fundamentally redesigned from the ground up. Critable shields would be nice, maybe that would be enough—but wards themselves should honestly just be removed from the game and replaced by reliable heals.0
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WuffyCerulei wrote: »Despite not having a class spammable, sorcs have damage-increasing passives, including one thag increases weapon and spell damage with each sorc ability slotted. They have pets which do huge damage in pve. For pvp, they have a cheap and strong shield, high burst, and plenty of ways to get away (boundless storm+streak). Not to mention their executes. It seems Mage's Wrath/Endless Fury is not only cheaper but harder-hitting than other executes in-game. Also, the other passives such as 15% ultimate cost reduction, reduced cost of stam and magicka skills, magicka recovery, implosion, and whatnot all give them an edge over the other classes.
Every class has access to ult gain/ reduction
NBs have the potion passive
Temps have the ult reduction passive
DKs have an ult gain passive
Wardens have an ult gain passive
Sorcs have an ult cost reduction
Warden can stack more magicka w/passive heals
Healthplar can stack shields or big heals
NBs have cloak (Schrodinger's cloak lol)
DKs have massive DMG reduction
Sorcs have Hardened Ward
Warden and DK no Execute
NB weakish Execute
Stam - hardest hitting Execute
Templars great Execute
Stam NBs have the easiest and best burst in game
Mag Sorc has an easy to set up and easy to counter burst (purge)
I don't feel Sorcs are OP5 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
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What makes them op is build they can run with high regen, amber is so op
Newsflash not if you are veteran player... And please u are just dirty Mag Sorc using freeride. Mr 2016.
Yeah, I played for quite a while before getting a forum account set up.
So what you're saying is that any 'veteran player' whatever your definition of a veteran player is, can easily beat any other veteran player (except sorc)?
Trying to figure that one out...
Also, anyone can use amber (which I do think is too strong, BTW, ) So why not look to nerf the over performing set rather than a class you just seem to dislike?Edited by Biro123 on July 29, 2017 3:20PMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@GreenhaloX wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »Its not wise to make deicisons based on what some ESO celebrity said.
Also, I think Deltia doesnt play anymore? Im not following him but there was a thread about this a while ago.
ESO celebrity.. ha ha ha. You all have to quit talking about Deltia guy so much. You're making Alcast and Fengrush jealous.
Oh, automatic 72 hours ban for anyone calling out for nerfing. Please, ZOS..
I didnt say hes the best player or something. Just like rl celebrities arent always the most talented people.
He is (or was) more popular than Alcast, though.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kneighbors wrote: »Why did they make DK so tanky powerful?
Why did they make NB so sneaky and deadly?
Why did they make Templar with so many group bonuses for healing and resources?
WTF??????? I think they must make one 2 classes, like terrorists and counterterrorists, and there will be only 5 weapons/skills to play with, and there will be much yonger community mostly not able to pay for the game over 10 bucks...
Leave ESO if you ask such silly questions, the game is not for you.
Stupid thread!
Makes zero sense!0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NeillMcAttack wrote: »Implosion is biggest amount of BS in the game! Besides that mag sorcs aren't so bad, they are just very easy to play and thus so popular because of it.
Can't remember how often I said this but I would gladly trade Implosion for something that isn't RNG. I understand why some people find that passive execute unfair we need to put it into perspective.
6% chance on damage under 15% health. 6& aren't that much and you have to do damage while your opponent is under that threshold.
15% of 20K are 3K health remaining. Every spam, proc, PI dot would finish one of at this health.
15% of 30k are 4.5K. Here it gets obvious why people complain.
In the light of current proc set changes, which allow counterplay (besides for Vicious Death *cough*) maybe they should add a delay to Implosion so it could be dodged?
But also mind that it's RNG based and that it only scales with your max health (what I find rather interesting).
What could it be replaced with? I honestly have no good idea. But it should be something that is usefull for both resources, unlike most of the current sorc passives. Maybe increased movement speed the more health you loose? Sorcs are a mobile class already so I don't know.
Also, what I never hear of is that other class' passive which gives a 25% to do free unavoidable 3-4k extra damage (tooltip) ever 0,5 seconds over the whole fight, not just in execute range. It also procs on the class spam, gap closer, ranged cc, AoE and shield. But that doesn't appears as killing blow so people tend to ingore it.
Death Recap, a topic of it's own. It can be just as misleading as those dummy dps parses. No one would complain about free 650 weapon dmg for the opponentI agree with mag sorcs having great burst and survivability. I do think you should be able to crit on shields. I also think shields cost should increase with each use.
First off, shields can be critted. They just don't take critical damage. So everything that procs on crits do also proc on shields.
Why don't they take that extra damage? Bc they can't be critically casted, they don't increase in size bc of RNG. Also they have zero mitigation. Means you do the full tooltip damage on them.
Shields are the main layer of defense of many LA builds. Nerfing them will hit other classes to. As for the fatigue, do heals have cost increase? Does block has it? Does cloak has it? No, only dodge and streak. MA defense is a different topic and it's obvious that it is in need of a buff.
So what could be changed? Either a stacking prevention or a chance in calculation of shield strength. Raise the standard shield size and lower the extra size from max magicka. Or make it base on resources and spell dmg so just stacking magicka won't do as much as it does now. Or even some debuff that shrink shields size, as a copy of defile?Strider_Roshin wrote: »Shad0wfire99 wrote: »Sorcs have pretty much no group support skills or passives. They are a damage class. Simple as that.
The same could be said for Nightblades except Nightblades don't have nearly as good survivability, streak > cloak, and their burst is much more difficult to line up.
As many have echoed in the past: anything a Nightblade can do a sorc can do better
While I usually agree with you I can't on this one. It needs two (cost increased) streaks to escape gap closer range. Mind that there aren't only mag sorcs out there. The everyday stam sorc can streak how often? 2-3 times? Personally I find it more annoying to deal with cloak spamming NB than a streaking sorc. BTW why can someone cloak that stands in the middle of my hurricane? Shouldn't the AoE DoT put them out of cloak? But I'm drifting from the topic.0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Chilly-McFreeze hurricane should break cloak since it's an AoE. Having played both stam sorc and stamblade thoroughly I find streak to be way more useful in terms of 1vX and positioning, not to mention incredibly fun to use. Honestly cloak is mainly effective against other Nightblades that don't slot mark.
Streak is a great addition to my arsenal as a sorc, but I question cloak's existence with my stamblade. To be honest the only context I use cloak is in open world. In duels or in battlegrounds I use shadow image. Just wish I didn't need a target to place down Shadow imagine; it would make things a lot easier.Edited by Strider_Roshin on July 29, 2017 4:15PM0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Electrone_Magnus wrote: »It has the worst self heals by far
You've clearly never seen a necropotence pet sorc before.. and the rest just uses the cheap resto ulti (cheaper for a sorc, because of passives)... the ulti everyone claimed was bad / terrible when they first introduced it. People clearly dropped the ball on that one :P
And if that's not enough heals yet... zap away and Dark Deal to give both HP and magicka.
And if you need even more heals.. keep surge up.
needless to say.. the statement that sorcs have the worst self heals is a bit "biased".
Not biased at all. Resto ult isnt a sorc ult, using the pet to heal urself is at best unreliable and if u rely on dark deal u are gonna have a very bad time. That leaves u with just surge. And surge on a magsorc isnt as nearly as good as on a stam sorc. In fact half of the magsorcs dont even run with surge. Magsorcs do have the worst self heals and thats not even a debate. There is a difference between shielding and healing.0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren0 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Must be just a coincidence VMOL etc runs in zone chat are looking for DPS, Mag Sorc only.4 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »WuffyCerulei wrote: »Despite not having a class spammable, sorcs have damage-increasing passives, including one thag increases weapon and spell damage with each sorc ability slotted. They have pets which do huge damage in pve. For pvp, they have a cheap and strong shield, high burst, and plenty of ways to get away (boundless storm+streak). Not to mention their executes. It seems Mage's Wrath/Endless Fury is not only cheaper but harder-hitting than other executes in-game. Also, the other passives such as 15% ultimate cost reduction, reduced cost of stam and magicka skills, magicka recovery, implosion, and whatnot all give them an edge over the other classes.
Every class has access to ult gain/ reduction
NBs have the potion passive
Temps have the ult reduction passive
DKs have an ult gain passive
Wardens have an ult gain passive
Sorcs have an ult cost reduction
Warden can stack more magicka w/passive heals
Healthplar can stack shields or big heals
NBs have cloak (Schrodinger's cloak lol)
DKs have massive DMG reduction
Sorcs have Hardened Ward
Warden and DK no Execute
NB weakish Execute
Stam - hardest hitting Execute
Templars great Execute
Stam NBs have the easiest and best burst in game
Mag Sorc has an easy to set up and easy to counter burst (purge)
I don't feel Sorcs are OP
@Waffennacht
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. When you're describing how the classes somewhat compare- quite literally, you mention Wardens and DKs having no execute and left out that Sorcs have two executes...Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren2 -
Wing✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I sat and really tried to breakdown why sorcs are so overpowered and I came to the conclusion its because magicka sorcs get everything compared to other classes.
damage (obvious)
survivability (shields)
mobility (streak)
by stacking the same resource
no class gets all 3 except sorc, most can manage 2, but only sorc gets all 3. sorcs can also run full light and not be squishy because of shields.
if one of those was taken away there would be no complaints, but as it stands your average sorc will not lose a 1v1 and as soon as they might the have the mobility to leave the fight.
if say the streak was gone, there would be no complaints as they would be more in line with something like a magicka Templar, doing damage and shielding up but when you jump on them they would be unable to run away (unless like mist from but that not as good as streak)
their kit is simply too versatile. streak has a stacking mechanic but 3 streaks is no prob to break combat, cast dark deal to restore all your magicka, and streak again.
I'm not quite sure what I would do to nerf them into a more balanced state without making the skills useless though, and don't know the devs intentions behind skill use (is streak for combat or running away? that question determines how you balance?)
I might make shields based on health but last a few seconds longer. that makes them more comfortable to use and less of a hassle, but under combat situations where people are killing the shield faster then its duration anyway it becomes more of a magicka sink to keep them up.
anyway, I think there are lots of things you could tweak, they are just too good right now.Edited by Wing on July 29, 2017 4:20PMESO player since beta.
game got too disappointing.4 -
MudcrabSammich✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Unless you are living under a rock for a while, you would know Mag Sorcs are #1.
Mag Sorcs are "disgustingly powerful" (quoting Deltia).
http://deltiasgaming.com/eso-magic-sorcerer-dps-build/
I personally believe ZOS has made Mag Sorcs so OP so that people with not-so-prime reflexes (like our grandparents) can taste MMORPG.
They would now be able to participate in VMA and come out unscathed and overall feel happy about themselves.
It is quite hard for those fine folks to compete with others in games like GW2, WoW etc so in order to lure those senior citizens ZOS has introduced Mag Sorc.
So kudos indeed ZOS for providing such a valuable service to our geriatric community.
So why do you think Mag Sorcs are made so OP ???
At 63 years old I take exception to your elder bashing I often have my stamblades and templars in the top 10 of PvP leader boards. I have a couple of sorcs but only find my stamsorc challenging enough to play.
It is Elder Scrolls after all!.
I'll be 59 in a few weeks. I've been playing games since the early 80s. I too have an issue with the OP's unbelievably snotty and condescending comment about age. We older players have a lot of experience and maybe he/she could learn something. As they say, youth is wasted on the young. smdh0 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »WuffyCerulei wrote: »Despite not having a class spammable, sorcs have damage-increasing passives, including one thag increases weapon and spell damage with each sorc ability slotted. They have pets which do huge damage in pve. For pvp, they have a cheap and strong shield, high burst, and plenty of ways to get away (boundless storm+streak). Not to mention their executes. It seems Mage's Wrath/Endless Fury is not only cheaper but harder-hitting than other executes in-game. Also, the other passives such as 15% ultimate cost reduction, reduced cost of stam and magicka skills, magicka recovery, implosion, and whatnot all give them an edge over the other classes.
Every class has access to ult gain/ reduction
NBs have the potion passive
Temps have the ult reduction passive
DKs have an ult gain passive
Wardens have an ult gain passive
Sorcs have an ult cost reduction
Warden can stack more magicka w/passive heals
Healthplar can stack shields or big heals
NBs have cloak (Schrodinger's cloak lol)
DKs have massive DMG reduction
Sorcs have Hardened Ward
Warden and DK no Execute
NB weakish Execute
Stam - hardest hitting Execute
Templars great Execute
Stam NBs have the easiest and best burst in game
Mag Sorc has an easy to set up and easy to counter burst (purge)
I don't feel Sorcs are OP
@Waffennacht
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. When you're describing how the classes somewhat compare- quite literally, you mention Wardens and DKs having no execute and left out that Sorcs have two executes...
take my second execute and give me a spammable .Edited by Apherius on July 29, 2017 4:48PM2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@jaburns just thought I had typed it when I hadn't lol
Sorcerer is good, I've ran one for years. However I don't think it's OP.
I feel a top tier player is just as difficult in a flame whipping DK, a cloaking NB, a bursty Sorc, a Pigeon Den, (temps haven't been around as much it seems)
Every great player I've played with or against has done exceptional in every class.
Streak is overrated in a gap closer environment1 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mag Sorc are WAY OP - IF you are a good player and you know HOW to make them OP
I'm leveling one and to be honest, the damage is great, but my Templar has better overall survivability and my Stamblade has better single target burst damage.
AoE though? - I find nothing touches a sorcerer for that.
This is of course PvE because PvP is something I don't do.
Edited by Bouldercleave on July 29, 2017 5:12PM0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »WuffyCerulei wrote: »Despite not having a class spammable, sorcs have damage-increasing passives, including one thag increases weapon and spell damage with each sorc ability slotted. They have pets which do huge damage in pve. For pvp, they have a cheap and strong shield, high burst, and plenty of ways to get away (boundless storm+streak). Not to mention their executes. It seems Mage's Wrath/Endless Fury is not only cheaper but harder-hitting than other executes in-game. Also, the other passives such as 15% ultimate cost reduction, reduced cost of stam and magicka skills, magicka recovery, implosion, and whatnot all give them an edge over the other classes.
Every class has access to ult gain/ reduction
NBs have the potion passive
Temps have the ult reduction passive
DKs have an ult gain passive
Wardens have an ult gain passive
Sorcs have an ult cost reduction
Warden can stack more magicka w/passive heals
Healthplar can stack shields or big heals
NBs have cloak (Schrodinger's cloak lol)
DKs have massive DMG reduction
Sorcs have Hardened Ward
Warden and DK no Execute
NB weakish Execute
Stam - hardest hitting Execute
Templars great Execute
Stam NBs have the easiest and best burst in game
Mag Sorc has an easy to set up and easy to counter burst (purge)
I don't feel Sorcs are OP
@Waffennacht
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. When you're describing how the classes somewhat compare- quite literally, you mention Wardens and DKs having no execute and left out that Sorcs have two executes...
take my second execute and give me a spammable .
@Apherius
From the past two weeks of Cyrodiil, you'd think that most MagSorcs consider Mage's Fury as their "spammable".
(I know it's the new PVP players just trying to get that killing blow in.)
However, MagSorcs do have access to mag-based spammables through the Destro Staff abilities (ie Force Pulse). MagDKs have no access, whatsoever, to a mag-based execute through any weapon abilities, armor sets, or guild abilities. :'(Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren0
This discussion has been closed.