Psst! Healers and Tanks come here.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · July 2017

You should not play a healer because of a reward. You should play it because you enjoy playing that role. Which is not what most people thing it is: standing still, watching the game, having a sweetroll, casting a BoL from time to time.

I also play a tank. And I enjoy it. I've tried playing a mage but I do prefer taking care of the team rather than jumping like a rabbit casting AoEs.

I have never seen a mage or DK properly healing through veteran dungeons. Truth is, sometimes the group is so good, you don't need much healing. That does not mean you can heal a veteran dungeon just by swapping a couple of skills.

You can heal when you can get through any situation, which include having low DPS in a DPS race (last boss EH2, Direfrost, ...) or bad CC. You can heal when the party members do not get frustrated and leave in the middle of a fight yelling no chances. You can heal when people feel comfortable that even if they inadvertently stay on red a second too long you are there.

Personally, when I see someone queued as everything, the first thing I do, before eating food is vote kick this person, who is lacking respect to everyone else. If the vote fails, I do leave and wish the other people in the party a good time.

WeyounTM · July 2017

Damn I like this thread idea already. Haven't read through all of it so here is my proposal:

Let's have an "Inverse Target Skeleton" for healers like my Heals-your-Paws. You know, a skeleteon that hurts itself and you heal it

.
Or as an alternative let us healers join a group with the target skeleton and try to heal it while your DPS is hurting it badly

And you can use your DPS-guy to put a nice Ele drain on him while you are at it

modaretto · July 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Came into this thread expecting some sort of decent topic about tanking and healing.

Same

max_only · July 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Hey all you dps who clicked on this thread go away!

Those of you who are dual specced can participate too, I won't contribute to bi-role erasure.

This game, and most games in general, reward "phat deeps" in all aspects and damage dealing is important no doubt, but there are those of us who like support roles.

Let's brainstorm improvements or additions to content that rewards support players.

Some of my ideas:
1. Make the "block" and "heal" dungeon achievements count for even more Undaunted rep.

2. Award ranked titles for healing in pvp. Like "Field Medic", "Surgeon", "Surgeon General"

3. Add a 1 skill point passive to the Restoration staff skill line that unlocks a conversation tree to "heal" npcs. Finding all the npcs in all the zones that need your healing help gives a similar achievement to donating to all the beggars. Maybe a title/ costume/ dye color.

What are your ideas?

Spamming BoL does not actually make one a surgeon, you know.

Have...... you been following me?

RavenSworn · July 2017

I like it. +1 to op.

That being said, You should also have an achievement that states "Meat Shield" , "I Told you to Hit me" or "The Great Wall".

max_only · July 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Came into this thread expecting some sort of decent topic about tanking and healing.

modaretto wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Came into this thread expecting some sort of decent topic about tanking and healing.

Same

By all means show me how it's done. What would you like to discuss?

max_only · August 2017

In a similar vein I was just thinking about class quests. Specific quests for each class that allow you to choose either the straight damage solution or the support solution (like how sometimes you can persuade an npc or just choose to outright kill them).

I love the Mages guild, I would like a group of npc healers to recognize us as well.
Anyone can be a part of the Fighters Guild, but not everyone is a tank, some kind of "defensive" game mode would be great. Like playing defense in an fps. Right now we have a defense tick for successfully repelling an attack on a keep, but maybe something more individual would be nice.

Azuramoonstar · August 2017

Riddari wrote: »

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

Riddari wrote: »

I would like for all classes to have tank and healing tools that make them viable as end game tanks or healers.

Then you queue up for veteran dungeons as a healer, tank and dd. For Mara's sake, NO! You wanna tank? Tank! You wanna take care of people? Be a healer! You wanna take care of people and be super sexy? Be a Breton girl healer! You wanna kill stuff? Be a DD.

You can't be everything.

You misunderstood.

I don't want all classes to be able to be all 3 at once. That would be absurd.

I want all classes to be able to have tools at their disposal which would allow them to specialize in any of the 3 roles.

From your point of view if I want to talk I should be FORCED into being a DK in order to be viable for end game content? This seems fair to you?

that is how it is, in most mmo (as in all) and several TES games. Not hating the idea, as the warden does exist, it has a tank heal and dps tree. bit most have a class that specializes in tanking, healing or dpsing. not to mention hat it tech possible in the game code, want to tank? pick a class and got sword and board, wear heavy armor.

Riddari · August 2017

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Riddari wrote: »

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

Riddari wrote: »

I would like for all classes to have tank and healing tools that make them viable as end game tanks or healers.

Then you queue up for veteran dungeons as a healer, tank and dd. For Mara's sake, NO! You wanna tank? Tank! You wanna take care of people? Be a healer! You wanna take care of people and be super sexy? Be a Breton girl healer! You wanna kill stuff? Be a DD.

You can't be everything.

You misunderstood.

I don't want all classes to be able to be all 3 at once. That would be absurd.

I want all classes to be able to have tools at their disposal which would allow them to specialize in any of the 3 roles.

From your point of view if I want to talk I should be FORCED into being a DK in order to be viable for end game content? This seems fair to you?

that is how it is, in most mmo (as in all) and several TES games. Not hating the idea, as the warden does exist, it has a tank heal and dps tree. bit most have a class that specializes in tanking, healing or dpsing. not to mention hat it tech possible in the game code, want to tank? pick a class and got sword and board, wear heavy armor.

Okay, that's great and all...but where's my Paladin? Why is the shield that goes on everyone and gives major Mending on a flame spouting stone cloaking DK?

Most games have MULTIPLE classes that can tank.

Warrior/Guardian/Gladiator/Paladins and MANY more.

I dgaf what the reasoning is. I want a legitimate paladin. Not some off tank off heals nonsense. The ONLY tank allowed in certain content is DK.

THAT is the issue.

Now for the sake of the argument I think it could be taken a step further.

Each class could have an equally effective way of doing each role DIFFERENTLY that wouldn't make one class the end all be all healer/tank/dps.

I really don't understand why so many people find that unreasonable?

Sordidfairytale · August 2017

The_Art_of_Paw wrote: »

H Also a quicker way to taunt that costs less resources for mini bosses.

This. So much this. Make one morph of Inner fire a conal taunt able to affect 3 targets at once for 15 seconds. The other morph buffs the caster so that when they damage a monster they taunt it for 5 seconds.

AnviOfVai · August 2017

Can we PLEASE make tanks more tanky? and give them better blocking skills and reflecting skills? I feel DK's lack awesome skills compared to the other classes, but I also think with the DK it all depends on whether you go down the blocking path or the damage path, unfortunately I have not found a "good" way to do both yet. I always go for the taunting/blocking too rather than the damaging..maybe that's why I feel they lack skills.. I have been trying many different sets with my DK too, having Black rose as my main (I love this too much to get rid of it

! ) Currently running Fury and Black rose with werewolf and the monster helm is I switch out between warden and Bloodspawn, although I prefer warden as I can take more damage with it, but my werewolf takes longer to generate..Is stamina DKs just suffering anyway?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · August 2017

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

The_Art_of_Paw wrote: »

H Also a quicker way to taunt that costs less resources for mini bosses.

This. So much this. Make one morph of Inner fire a conal taunt able to affect 3 targets at once for 15 seconds. The other morph buffs the caster so that when they damage a monster they taunt it for 5 seconds.

No.

AnviOfVai wrote: »

Can we PLEASE make tanks more tanky?

You say this then ask for the best bast at tanking to get better tanking skills, they already have the best 2 tanking skills in the game, chains and talons, these two skills alone makes dks head and shoulders above the rest.

Tanks should not be able to do great damage. Full stop. I sometimes que for normal dungeons with a tank bar and dps bar, I don't pull more then 15k dps, but sometimes that is like 60% of the dps in the group and I would not try vet dungeons with that set up.

As for dps on a tank, black Rose is terrible. I run five medium and 2 heavy, with dragongaurd and alkosh and bloodspawn. I use 2 block cost reduction and one weapon damage enchant on the jewelry. S/B tank bar and two-hander back bar.

Sustain comes from ultis and heavy attacks and of course, igneous shields, so black rose is waste.

At the end, I have 25k health, 30k Stam, 3k weapon damage buffeed and 1.2k magic recovery. More then enough to do and tano.

Sordidfairytale · August 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

No.

Yes.

paulsimonps · August 2017

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

No.

Yes.

No. AoE Taunts should never happen, and thankfully the devs have so far agreed, and even said so on multiple occasions. I hope they never change their minds.

paulsimonps · August 2017

AnviOfVai wrote: »

Can we PLEASE make tanks more tanky? and give them better blocking skills and reflecting skills? I feel DK's lack awesome skills compared to the other classes, but I also think with the DK it all depends on whether you go down the blocking path or the damage path, unfortunately I have not found a "good" way to do both yet. I always go for the taunting/blocking too rather than the damaging..maybe that's why I feel they lack skills.. I have been trying many different sets with my DK too, having Black rose as my main (I love this too much to get rid of it ! ) Currently running Fury and Black rose with werewolf and the monster helm is I switch out between warden and Bloodspawn, although I prefer warden as I can take more damage with it, but my werewolf takes longer to generate..Is stamina DKs just suffering anyway?

Its really really easy to stack mitigation, which is what people refer to as being tanky, the ability to take a lot of hits. The more mitigation you have the less damage you take. And there are tons of sources for it and they are all easy to get. Most tanks could if they wanted to, with ease, get to over 90% total mitigation.

Also DK is the best tank in the game so not sure what you are talking about. Tanks should not deal damage. Also why are you wanting to be a werewolf as a Tank, makes no sense.

bebynnag · August 2017

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Soriana wrote: »

We were talking in group tonight about role specific achievements for Heals and Tanks; the 50 kills for Midyear Mayhem was the catalyst. For heals, do 50 rez's, for tanks, do 50 assists for kills like chains or talons or something. Almost all achieves are either super simple (run here, chat with her, drink out of bowl, chat with other person, boom achieve) or geared towards DPS (win a battleground match, deliver 50 killing blows to players in PVP).

I would like to see a little diversity going forward.

The sad thing here in your suggestion is that generally speaking the DPS are supposed to be the ones doing the rezzing in dungeons and trials and such.

and yet i am constantly meeting 'healers' who wear Kagrenac.... in vet trails.... and their resource management is reliant on letting someone die so they can res them!

AnviOfVai · August 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

The_Art_of_Paw wrote: »

H Also a quicker way to taunt that costs less resources for mini bosses.

This. So much this. Make one morph of Inner fire a conal taunt able to affect 3 targets at once for 15 seconds. The other morph buffs the caster so that when they damage a monster they taunt it for 5 seconds.

No.

AnviOfVai wrote: »

Can we PLEASE make tanks more tanky?

You say this then ask for the best bast at tanking to get better tanking skills, they already have the best 2 tanking skills in the game, chains and talons, these two skills alone makes dks head and shoulders above the rest.

Tanks should not be able to do great damage. Full stop. I sometimes que for normal dungeons with a tank bar and dps bar, I don't pull more then 15k dps, but sometimes that is like 60% of the dps in the group and I would not try vet dungeons with that set up.

As for dps on a tank, black Rose is terrible. I run five medium and 2 heavy, with dragongaurd and alkosh and bloodspawn. I use 2 block cost reduction and one weapon damage enchant on the jewelry. S/B tank bar and two-hander back bar.

Sustain comes from ultis and heavy attacks and of course, igneous shields, so black rose is waste.

At the end, I have 25k health, 30k Stam, 3k weapon damage buffeed and 1.2k magic recovery. More then enough to do and tano.

Can we make those two skills stamina based as well then? at least that gives stamina based tanks a little go at hitting things.

I don't know how tanks are in dungeons when I play them I find them great

but in Cyrodiil....

This is why I find Templar tanks to be insanely good, not only can they take huge amounts of damage but they can deal it too, I find now that Templars are better tanks than DKs. not that they do much damage but they do area damage, which is great...maybe I should move to magika and get inhale use to love that in year 1

I use black rose on a stamina build which yes knocks my damage down as you have said but it does up my tankiness, but not enough to compete with a templar tank. My build runs with more health than stamina, unless im in werewolf form which shoves stamina up, I do have food buffs. (my health drops depending on the monster helm I have on at the time.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · August 2017

I smell a snowflake.

AnviOfVai · August 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

AnviOfVai wrote: »

Can we PLEASE make tanks more tanky? and give them better blocking skills and reflecting skills? I feel DK's lack awesome skills compared to the other classes, but I also think with the DK it all depends on whether you go down the blocking path or the damage path, unfortunately I have not found a "good" way to do both yet. I always go for the taunting/blocking too rather than the damaging..maybe that's why I feel they lack skills.. I have been trying many different sets with my DK too, having Black rose as my main (I love this too much to get rid of it ! ) Currently running Fury and Black rose with werewolf and the monster helm is I switch out between warden and Bloodspawn, although I prefer warden as I can take more damage with it, but my werewolf takes longer to generate..Is stamina DKs just suffering anyway?

Its really really easy to stack mitigation, which is what people refer to as being tanky, the ability to take a lot of hits. The more mitigation you have the less damage you take. And there are tons of sources for it and they are all easy to get. Most tanks could if they wanted to, with ease, get to over 90% total mitigation.

Also DK is the best tank in the game so not sure what you are talking about. Tanks should not deal damage. Also why are you wanting to be a werewolf as a Tank, makes no sense.

The werewolf is the thing I rely on with damage its something I have been playing around with, but at the moment am finding nothing that would work well. There are videos on youtube of people successfully playing rather well with werewolves in PVP with certain tanky builds but I lack the armor to do this at the moment so I am playing with my own

Sorry for the double post!

QuebraRegra · August 2017

josiahva wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

I'd just like them to make it so that tanks are more necessary in dungeons - too many can be steamrolled without the need for a tank. There are also too many dungeon bosses that don't need a tank or cannot be taunted.

I find the whole "cannot be taunted" thing irritating. Need a tank - but wait, no benefit to having one - [insert slap to ZoS person who made that call].

I'd like to see ALL the things be changed to be tauntable.

This is really not an issue in many dungeons, Aside from Quintus(whom the tank can STILL hold aggro the entire fight without a taunting if he damages Quintus first) in Volenfell along with some of the modes of the various Dwemer centurion bosses Volenfell/DSC 1(which don't require taunting because they can just be kited around, called mechanics). Aside from those bosses all the others can be taunted, though some have random attacks at other group members. I like to tank, but in general its a pretty thankless job with the game ultra focused on DPS.

Yeah the dwemers can be kited, and I do (mostly pop a shield and draw them away when they come after me). I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm very thankful for the good tanks in the game. I know

vamp_emily wrote: »

I would like to have a magical chain that will yank DPS out of the red circle and bring them to me. Then I can spank him with my healing staff for being bad.

oh so much this.... yet it's a healer fail when the DPS just stands there in the red circle spamming LA and takes NO defensive actions at all... literally standing still (I'm not sure if they're masturbating with the other hand or what).

max_only · August 2017

Can Silver Leash be changed to the store brand Chains please? Instead of the useless gap closer no one needs?