Tandor wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@Bromburak , isn't this taken care of on a policy basis by the guilds themselves?

No, because ZOS has the awareness what a 3 faction game is actually about and should have never supported something like "One Tamriel". Imo ESO went in the wrong direction for a 3 faction driven game.

It would have been good enough to share PvE Group Finder for all factions but everything else should have a faction lock.
It's not only guilds with cross faction problems you also can switch campaigns while they are still running.

I am very sorry, but imo ZOS and majority of player base doesn't really know what 3 faction war really means.

I suspect they do, but it isn't really suited to a megaserver-based game.

Oh, it isn't really suited for a megaserver to have such a bad performance either ...

There is one thing I would really like to know from @ZOS_BrianWheeler since a long time.
Why we don't have to choose a faction when we join a campaign and stick with it as long it's running (7 or 30 days at the moment) and why we don't get 3 campaigns for CP and non CP each so that everyone can play with the faction he likes without queue exploiting (yes something like this is real) and without cross faction hopping?

I have an idea why, because ZOS would actually confirm that the megaserver vision obviously can't handle a load of players like they thought in the first place. So reducing overall population and providing more campaigns for a better gaming experience for all players costs a fortune and the whole megaserer idea was a nice try in MMO history but didn't work in reality.

Imo it's time to rethink your customer strategy it's called quality and gaming experience first.

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

When you have a cup of water and you divide it into multiple cups there is less and less liquid in each subsequent cup. Having more guilds means players are less loyal to any one community and don't actually care about the welfare of that community.

A brilliant explaination why there is no faction pride in a 3 faction game either.

I must disagree. Infact i feel 5 is too many guilds. People have no sense of dedication as the guild system is right now. They join a guild and say or do nothing in it/with guildmates ever.

4 guilds and a guild classification system is more appropriate. Make each guild require to classify itself as pve endgame(focus on trials runs and vet dungeon runs), pvp (focus on cyrodiil and battlegrounds), trading (focus on guild trader), and roleplay(focus on casual and hardcore rp). You can have one guild of each type. Thats it. Still not as strict as having only one guild but more strict than being in 3 pvp guilds, one trading guild and one pve guild and only ever doing stuff with one of the pvp guilds

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

5 guilds is enough.

The only reason I can see anyone would want more than 5 is they really don't care about any of he guilds outside of what the guilds can do for them. Users, basically.

Ask not what your guild(s) can do for you but what you can do for your guild(s).

Bromburak wrote: »

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

When you have a cup of water and you divide it into multiple cups there is less and less liquid in each subsequent cup. Having more guilds means players are less loyal to any one community and don't actually care about the welfare of that community.

A brilliant explaination why there is no faction pride in a 3 faction game either.

Interesting, yet completely inaccurate.

Do you ever group up with non-guild members? Randoms, or perhaps people from your friends list that are not in your guild? @Giles.floydub17_ESO , @Bromburak , @ComboBreaker88 ?

If the answer is "yes," do you feel you're being disloyal when you do? Because the irony in this is that I'm wanting to do more. You see, there are times when guildmates do not need assists when other would-be-guildmates do. So, I'm not "splitting up my water," I'm taking it where it is needed at the moment, vice having it simply sit there with no immediate purpose. Sometimes, my guildmates don't need a drink.

Not abandoning my current guilds, which sounds vaguely like loyalty and dedication, while still wanting to help others when and where I can is hardly lack of care, lack of pride, or using anyone.

Referring to faction (obviously concerning PvP), I am primarily single faction and always have been. So that is not valid, in this case, either. I have one off-faction character that was my first, and entered their current faction quite by mistake due to it not being as apparent how selection was made at character creation.

You can be available and supportive of your guild(s), all of them. But when there is otherwise downtime, or others could use your help, with zero harm coming to your existing guildmates, there is no reasonable reason not to allow this.

To put it another way, I'll still help those others in the current setup, but I could help considerably more as a full fledged member.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

5 guilds is enough.

The only reason I can see anyone would want more than 5 is they really don't care about any of he guilds outside of what the guilds can do for them. Users, basically.

Ask not what your guild(s) can do for you but what you can do for your guild(s).

Bromburak wrote: »

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

When you have a cup of water and you divide it into multiple cups there is less and less liquid in each subsequent cup. Having more guilds means players are less loyal to any one community and don't actually care about the welfare of that community.

A brilliant explaination why there is no faction pride in a 3 faction game either.

Interesting, yet completely inaccurate.

Do you ever group up with non-guild members?
@Giles.floydub17_ESO , @Bromburak , @ComboBreaker88 ?

Sure, but I would never ever support cross faction hopping on a running campaign.
It's my personal rule, no matter if my friends want me to play together on the other side.

I blame ZOS for "One Tamriel" because I am convinced that sharing the PvE Group Finder for all faction would have been a good compromise for all players, everything else should have a faction lock, that is my opinion.

Players who never played DAoC might won't understand where my faction pride comes from.
Ask Matt Firor or Brian Wheeler , they know what that means from 15 years ago but apparently don't like it for ESO.
Imo ZOS had the chance to bring this awareness for factions into ESO but they didn't , well actually they tried initially but then changed the concept ...

I understand that this decision was made to simplify things for PvE but the impact to guilds and PvP is not acceptable imo.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

The first paragraph is just silly. The second paragraph is pointless because it's irrelevant if you quit the guild or not if your really not very available to them because your running with 10 other guilds. Your idea of loyalty because you stay on the roster is fairly weak.

EDIT: The reason your point falls flat is the more guilds players are in the less loyal they are to any of them, or are merely on the roster for all but one. The loyalty is fickle because the player is in it for themselves and basically does not care about any of the guilds, except maybe one. Your statement does not even begin to address that and the comparison made is irrelevant.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO, while I understand and respect where @Bromburak is coming from, your notion that loyalty is so limited is disappointing.

Your first issue is solved by timeslots, something I'm fairly certain most event guilds are using regularly. If you're bailing on one guild to assist another after you've committed, or it's been made known that your assistance is needed, then it's a problem.

It's sad you've had the experiences you've apparently had. I, however, do not just exist on the roster ~ that's kinda the whole point. As an officer or GM, it's well within your right to oust someone you don't feel has the loyalty you require. It should equally be obvious who is active, and who simply exists on the roster.

With the option you provide, I abandon the less active guilds, and the players that can benefit from my assistance or I deny full entry to the more active guilds that can do the same.

Any member of any guild of any size that is not giving back more than they're taking is an issue. As has already been mentioned, this is not the case here.

@Typhoios , personal guilds are more than just bank space, & there is no justifiable reason to abandon one simply to make room for another.

My current setup is my personal guild (there since the beginning), 1 trade guild, and 2 PvE guilds (one that primarily has newer players and primarily 4-man's, one that does a bit of everything, including PvP) and a 3rd PvE guild that I have been with from the start, but time differences prevent as much coordination as was once available. Cutting any of those loose inevitably lets down people I regularly run with, beyond the 100 allotted friends that ZoS also limits.

The misconception is that this is about greed, and perhaps the number suggested is too high. However, at least in my circumstance, I know there is room to do more, and this would allow that to happen more easily than without.

Wouldn't mind an increase.

Typhoios wrote: »

Personally, I think people should only be in one guild, but that ZOS should expand our friendlist. Sure, you might say you're loyal to all your guilds equally, but most people are not and the current system just encourages leeches. People that exsist in the guild to ask for help and take things, but never give back and never engage with the community.

This would be an acceptable alternative. I'd include a friends' chat tab so you could effectively listen/send to all on your list at once in such scenarios.

I do agree, it's not difficult to give something back, whether time, gold, mats, even wisdom. It's sad that so many do not.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Personally, I think people should only be in one guild, but that ZOS should expand our friendlist. Sure, you might say you're loyal to all your guilds equally, but most people are not and the current system just encourages leeches. People that exsist in the guild to ask for help and take things, but never give back and never engage with the community.

This would be an acceptable alternative. I'd include a friends' chat tab so you could effectively listen/send to all on your list at once in such scenarios.

I do agree, it's not difficult to give something back, whether time, gold, mats, even wisdom. It's sad that so many do not.

Final Fantasy has something like that. It's called a linkshell or something. Basically you can add people to it and it works like a chat tab, but you don't need to be in the same guild or group.

I think the entire guild structure needs to be boosted beyond what we have now.

Double guild membership limit to 1000.

Triple listed items on traders to 90.

Double current guild bank space to 1000, and enhance the UI to have drop down type menus that can be expanded/collapsed by item category to allow for much faster browsing. Also, set-up rank-by-rank permissions on daily withdrawal limits.

This way, people can retain just 5 guilds, but it allows for far greater flexibility on the trading guilds behalf. Even if they just tripled the listed items to 90, thats currently the equivalent of 3 trading guilds.

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

Lol at all the people wanting more guild slots because they have one or two private guilds for extra bank space. ZOS isn't going to up the guild limit so that you can have extra inventory relief.

Exactly, In-fact if any changes were made to the guild system, I think the bank space limit will link to how many members are in the guild would be first on their list of things, as I'm sure ZOS didn't make the guild system for people to use it only for an extra personal bank.

I think the number of guilds you can join and the number of players you can have in each guild is perfectly balanced already.

However! I think ZOS should allow you to post more items for sale in a guild, like 40 or 50. And! I think the guildmaster should have the ability to restrict the number of items a player can list based on their rank.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

The first paragraph is just silly. The second paragraph is pointless because it's irrelevant if you quit the guild or not if your really not very available to them because your running with 10 other guilds. Your idea of loyalty because you stay on the roster is fairly weak.

EDIT: The reason your point falls flat is the more guilds players are in the less loyal they are to any of them, or are merely on the roster for all but one. The loyalty is fickle because the player is in it for themselves and basically does not care about any of the guilds, except maybe one. Your statement does not even begin to address that and the comparison made is irrelevant.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO, while I understand and respect where @Bromburak is coming from, your notion that loyalty is so limited is disappointing.

Your first issue is solved by timeslots, something I'm fairly certain most event guilds are using regularly. If you're bailing on one guild to assist another after you've committed, or it's been made known that your assistance is needed, then it's a problem.

It's sad you've had the experiences you've apparently had. I, however, do not just exist on the roster ~ that's kinda the whole point. As an officer or GM, it's well within your right to oust someone you don't feel has the loyalty you require. It should equally be obvious who is active, and who simply exists on the roster.

With the option you provide, I abandon the less active guilds, and the players that can benefit from my assistance or I deny full entry to the more active guilds that can do the same.

Any member of any guild of any size that is not giving back more than they're taking is an issue. As has already been mentioned, this is not the case here.

@Typhoios , personal guilds are more than just bank space, & there is no justifiable reason to abandon one simply to make room for another.

My current setup is my personal guild (there since the beginning), 1 trade guild, and 2 PvE guilds (one that primarily has newer players and primarily 4-man's, one that does a bit of everything, including PvP) and a 3rd PvE guild that I have been with from the start, but time differences prevent as much coordination as was once available. Cutting any of those loose inevitably lets down people I regularly run with, beyond the 100 allotted friends that ZoS also limits.

The misconception is that this is about greed, and perhaps the number suggested is too high. However, at least in my circumstance, I know there is room to do more, and this would allow that to happen more easily than without.

Limited and disappointing. LOL

And stating you have a personal guild is a fabulous reason why more guild slots should not be made available. Nothing to prevent someone from even having multiple personal guilds. Drop your personal guild and get another guild slot.

Second, your "time slot" point is kinda pointless. It really should be in reverse. The player has the choice to drop a guild and go to another if that is the guild that they prefer or works better for their schedule. It really becomes obvious when two guilds are doing something on the same night. The activity chosen shows the guild where that player should go, or what guild the player should drop.

Yes, the misconception is about greed. Players think the more guilds they are in the more action they will get. Players with that mindset really do not care about the guild and pretty much focus on opportunity for themselves. Great point.

These are the reasons your points fall flat. Also, demonstrates who has and who has not had experience in guild leadership, once again.

You assume a lot, Giles.

Give up GM of your own guild is your solution to this. That's disappointing.

What a guild you must have to occupy all members 24 hrs a day.

You're against this & that's fine, but the reasons people would benefit are no less valid.

5 is plenty.

I have 2 trade guilds, 1 personal guild, and 1 PvE guild. I still have a spot open if I decide I want to join a PvP guild.