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PLEASE DONT BUFF the *** out of MagWardens.
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leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@leepalmer95 How powerful magwarden is......hey I just created a stamsorc btw, know of any good PvE builds, and are stamsorcs even good for PvE?
Stam sorcs is decent, can solo quite easy.
Used to run stam sorc for vma.
guessing 5x Vo, 5x the pen stacking set, 2x veli? Not too sure.
Mag warden is stupid in groups.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Sarato✭✭✭@leepalmer95 How about stamwardens for pvp? And what does "Vo" stand for? lol sorryTake me drunk, I'm home. Fav song: Pony - Ginuwine0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@leepalmer95 How about stamwardens for pvp? And what does "Vo" stand for? lol sorry
Vicious ophidian, i suggested an end game trial dps setup.
Stam warden isn't too bad, personally i don't think its as good a mag warden, Most of the passives don't help stam warden too much.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
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What makes me think that PvE is more important than PvP...? Well... Let's see here for a moment...
- Most zones are PvE-based (literally all but Cyrodiil)
- The best weapons drop from PvE environments
- Most of the quests are PvE-based
- There's tons of dungeons
- There's a handful of trials
- Most events are PvE-based (as they should be)
- There's less lag in PvE-based environments (Cyordiil is atrocious)
- Most if the player base indulged in PvE over PvP
- PvE is dramatically less toxic than PvP
- PvP is literally a game of who can out-cheese who
- Most of the people who lace ZOS' pockets are PvE'ers
Do I need to continue...? Please say, "Yes." so I can lay out more reasons why. Please do.
Yeah continue, but before you do think about this. PvE is player against environment. Once the player is finished with the provided environment the only real way to keep them coming back is new environment. PvP is of course player vs player. Players are fluid, they change tactics and styles. PvE is static and needs constant renewal. PvP is fluid and doesn't need the constant new scenery to be interesting for a much longer time.
That takes care of just about every thing on your list. One that it doesn't take care of is the toxic comment. Have you ever been in a starter zone? I know you have so I'm guessing either it was so toxic you blocked the negative experience from your memory or you just made that up to have something besides more content on your list. A new player asks where do I get a recipe first comment is almost always a suggestion to learn how to use google and within five or six posts someone is accused of being a sex trafficking *** clone. I'd much rather have my character be tea bagged than be personally verbally abused in zone chat, but hey that is just me.
Best gear in PvE? Maybe. Then again how many players go to the PvP areas for the must have skills? Most.
You think people trying to get on leader boards aren't wallowing in cheese? Any little exploit to shave a second off the time and they jump all over it in droves. In fact ZoS has to spend quite a bit of time fixing dungeons and trials because players find something to exploit be it sneaking by a boss they intended you to fight or standing on a rock so boss AoE doesn't get you. PvE has more than its share of cheese.
A lot of people like to think PvE and PvP are separate games that just go lumped together. They are not. Take one away and you damage the other. They are intertwined and both are important.
but...yes, since you asked so nice.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vaoh MagWard is easy to kill for me in PvP, so I'm not against them due to any past experiences or biases. I want them balanced, if they have an incredible buff and nothing is done about cliff racer etc then it becomes UNBALANCED. See where I'm coming from?
EDIT: In fact I want to main a magden soon lol. I don't want easy mode.
@Sarato I recommend trying to main Magicka Warden now, if you really want to. You'll find it is nothing like QQers in the Forums complain about. It is also really fun due to the animations and an awesome class theme
You say they are easy for you to kill in PvP? Well there you go lol
not so OP at all. They just show up on the death recaps of players wishing they were as good as they hype themselves to be.
Do not worry about PvE buffs for Warden affecting PvE. The way they are currently setup, it is possible to grant them massive buffs only to PvE while at the same time not touching PvP and even nerfing a Magicka Wardens Cliff Racer a bit (why is the 15% ranged damage buff given to the Magicka build when Bow Ranged Stam Wardens were the iconic archetype of the class?).ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »As a magwarden in PvP, I'd be fine with them nerfing the racer and buffing other things (like the duration of some of the buff skills). Sick of birdtatos giving the class a bad name anyway.
So in other words, nerf their main spammable? Resulting in collateral damage to the PvE player base (which is vastly larger than the PvP player base)? Because people are struggling to deal with something in PvP, and feel it's "overperforming", PvE'ers have to suffer yet again?
Meanwhile, people are still wondering why it is that so many PvE'ers can't stand the PvP'ers... Maybe, just maybe, if the PvP player base would stop asking for nerfs of this and that? Than the PvE player base wouldn't revile them so much for having so many skills and other things nerfed. Thinks about that for a second.
There are ways to nerf it without affecting PvE, while achieving a net buff to PvE dps. You should stop knee-jerk reacting to literally everything, you'll probably enjoy life more.
This is the guy what wanted to remove PVP from game so his PVE experience could get better so go figure...
He is blind to any buffs/nerfs that would not impact PVP/PVE in slightest, let alone compromises
Can you truly blame me...? Ask yourself for a moment how many things received nerfs due to them overperforming from a PvP perspective, compared to the things which received nerfs due to them overperforming from a PvE perspective. It's ridiculous. Granted of course that none of this would be an issue, IF ZOS actually seperated the balancing of PvE and PvP. But since they've made it clear (on numerous occasions) that the concept of balancing the 2 separately will never take shape, all that is left is collateral damage. And let's not kid ourselves. Way more people partake in PvE, than PvP. So if the common denominator, AND lower amount of the player base happens to indulge in the same thing... What is the logical approach (when considering all things)? You tell me.
Now in this specific case, OP is asking that Wardens not receive a dramatic increase in damage. Due to the fact that in PvP, they're capable of doing a few parlor tricks and niche things here and there. That's goofy. It really is.
Dynamic Ultimate generation, very broken builds, and a large population of noobie players to farm.... these all made 1vX possible and *supported* in the past. The game has changed dramatically, and this play style is no longer supported - solo players run alone at their own risk.
ZOS has chosen to balance PvE and PvP together (worst thing ever tbh). When this happens, and with how ESO has developed over the years, things have changed in a different direction than how the game used to work. Group play is now encouraged, and we are not expected to live if surrounded by a group of competent players. So.... if a Warden spams Cliff Racers on you from behind a group, and you are sitting there helpless, taking in all of the damage alone, you should die immediately. People aren't understanding that unfortunately.
This was also why proc sets were allowed to become so prevalent in PvP. It was unimportant if procs hurt solo players as long as they were balanced in a group setting. Most of the broken asf proc sets were nerfed for the singular reason that they over performed in group play such as BGs too, and even this took a looong time to get nerfed.
A lot of these complaints..... they come from people who have truly misunderstood the current and permanent direction of ESO. These people will NEVER BE SATISFIED. It is impossible for them to be satisfied. They complain of being zerged when the game is setup to be balanced around PvE and Group PvP, rather than 1vX. Everyone admits to slaughtering Mag Wardens easily, but then says nerf em because the one dude at the back of the zerg killed them through their roll dodge spam. This is why these Forums will always QQ no matter what Wrobel does. As a whole, balance is better right now that it has been in awhile, besides the proc sets ofc. You won't hear any of this though reading any thread on this site.
Edited by Vaoh on July 21, 2017 2:55AM2 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Again, if you want to base something off of magicka damage...you are better off using nightblade or templar, both of which have better DPS. The whole point of Warden is that its supposed to fill the 3rd ELEMENTAL damage slot. Look at Ysgramor's Birthright set. How useless is that set? Its obvious ZoS made that set with the intention of cold damage being a viable elemental tree...but then they release warden with only 2 cold damage skills? No, the cold damage skill line needs a re-work, or the shalk/cliff racer skills need to deal cold damage to put it on a par sorc/DK. Just because cold damage is more focused on immobilization and slowing enemies doesnt mean it cant damage enemies. Thats like saying sing flame is more single target focused it cant deal AoE damage...patently flase, or since lightning is more AoE focused it cant deal single target...again false. Just because something has a specific focus doesnt mean it cant be flexible to a degree, just that it wont be best. I never asked for warden cold damage to be better than sorc lightning damage...just that it be viable. To accomplish that, the skill lines NEED a re-work. This is INDEED a problem.
Bold - once again you look at half a buff and decide to ignore the other. Its just as flawed as looking at only the ice part.
italics - You and i totally disagree on what "the whole point" of the warden was. See, for me to conclude that the whole point of the warden was frost, specifically frost damage role, i would have expected to see a lot more attack frost capability and an offensively designed weapon to match it.
I believe the whole point of the warden was nature-based jack-of-all-trades, master of none and i think they achieved that.
But, hey, who knows right, its not like the devs said any of these things in writing articles about the warden and its skills...
Interested in creating a new character with this nature-based class?
or
If you create a Warden character, you will get access to a series of highly versatile skill lines that can help you heal, defend, and do damage.
or
With Winter's Embrace, your Warden manipulates the cold to create defensive barriers and shields. This skill line helps you weather your enemies' blows with abilities such as Frost Cloak or Crystallized Shield and even allows you to heal yourself via Arctic Wind.
or
At first glance, the Warden's three skill lines appear relatively easy to identify ( Animal Companions for damage, Green Balance for healing, and Winter's Embrace for tanking), making them welcoming to newcomers and experienced veterans alike.
or
The Warden class is an adaptable, support-orientated option for players who want to be able to fill a specific role while simultaneously providing assistance to others.
etc etc etc...
i am sure somewhere the devs told you (maybe in a personal email or singing telegram delivered by an orcish bard) that the warden's whole point was to be the ice elemental damage dps guy, right?
or is it possible that when you typed "the whole point of the warden" you just had a typo and meant to say "what i had hoped the warden would be"?
Sure, it buffs magic dmg, great. Now name another class with cold dmg skills that was meant to fill the 3rd elemental DPS role? Cant? Didnt think so. All classes have damage skills, my argument here is that the Warden's damage skills should be cold based, or have at the VERY least one more cold damage based skill, but instead they focus heavily on the magic damage to the exclusion of the cold damage. Its also true that the warden may not be the best cold dmg class like the templar isnt the best flame dmg class, but if this is the case, where is our cold damage DPS class? The fact remains that ZoS could EASILY have built the warden in such a way to fill this role and didnt. It would hurt nothing to have say fletcher flies, or shalk, etc be cold damage based. it would take nothing away and add in much more DPS viability via the Ysgramor set. my argument isnt that the winter's embrace skill line should be solely cold damage(the DK for instance has flame damage through multiple skill lines and the sorc has lightning damage through multiple skill lines). ZoS may well have intended for the class to be the way it is...but its poor design and would definitely benefit from changes making it more elemental like EQUIVALENT classes. Aside from lack of elemental abilities, the clunky delayed DPS abilities the warden class possesses are also poorly designed. Are you arguing that just because ZoS created it the way it is, that the class wouldn't benefit from a re-work of the skills? ZoS has ALWAYS supported the "play your way" idea with any class being able to fill any role, but here we are with ZoS failing to fulfill its promise of the magicka warden being able to DPS equivalent to the other classes.
When DK's and NB's can heal as good as wardens and templars
Sorcs and Templars Tank as good as DK's and Wardens
And NB's And DK's DPS as high as Mag Sorc
Then sure, Until then. Not likelyEdited by Nelson_Rebel on July 21, 2017 3:06AM1 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vaoh MagWard is easy to kill for me in PvP, so I'm not against them due to any past experiences or biases. I want them balanced, if they have an incredible buff and nothing is done about cliff racer etc then it becomes UNBALANCED. See where I'm coming from?
EDIT: In fact I want to main a magden soon lol. I don't want easy mode.
@Sarato I recommend trying to main Magicka Warden now, if you really want to. You'll find it is nothing like QQers in the Forums complain about. It is also really fun due to the animations and an awesome class theme
You say they are easy for you to kill in PvP? Well there you go lol not so OP at all. They just show up on the death recaps of players wishing they were as good as they hype themselves to be.
Do not worry about PvE buffs for Warden affecting PvE. The way they are currently setup, it is possible to grant them massive buffs only to PvE while at the same time not touching PvP and even nerfing a Magicka Wardens Cliff Racer a bit (why is the 15% ranged damage buff given to the Magicka build when Bow Ranged Stam Wardens were the iconic archetype of the class?).ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »As a magwarden in PvP, I'd be fine with them nerfing the racer and buffing other things (like the duration of some of the buff skills). Sick of birdtatos giving the class a bad name anyway.
So in other words, nerf their main spammable? Resulting in collateral damage to the PvE player base (which is vastly larger than the PvP player base)? Because people are struggling to deal with something in PvP, and feel it's "overperforming", PvE'ers have to suffer yet again?
Meanwhile, people are still wondering why it is that so many PvE'ers can't stand the PvP'ers... Maybe, just maybe, if the PvP player base would stop asking for nerfs of this and that? Than the PvE player base wouldn't revile them so much for having so many skills and other things nerfed. Thinks about that for a second.
There are ways to nerf it without affecting PvE, while achieving a net buff to PvE dps. You should stop knee-jerk reacting to literally everything, you'll probably enjoy life more.
This is the guy what wanted to remove PVP from game so his PVE experience could get better so go figure...
He is blind to any buffs/nerfs that would not impact PVP/PVE in slightest, let alone compromises
Can you truly blame me...? Ask yourself for a moment how many things received nerfs due to them overperforming from a PvP perspective, compared to the things which received nerfs due to them overperforming from a PvE perspective. It's ridiculous. Granted of course that none of this would be an issue, IF ZOS actually seperated the balancing of PvE and PvP. But since they've made it clear (on numerous occasions) that the concept of balancing the 2 separately will never take shape, all that is left is collateral damage. And let's not kid ourselves. Way more people partake in PvE, than PvP. So if the common denominator, AND lower amount of the player base happens to indulge in the same thing... What is the logical approach (when considering all things)? You tell me.
Now in this specific case, OP is asking that Wardens not receive a dramatic increase in damage. Due to the fact that in PvP, they're capable of doing a few parlor tricks and niche things here and there. That's goofy. It really is.
Dynamic Ultimate generation, very broken builds, and a large population of noobie players to farm.... these all made 1vX possible and *supported* in the past. The game has changed dramatically, and this play style is no longer supported - solo players run alone at their own risk.
ZOS has chosen to balance PvE and PvP together (worst thing ever tbh). When this happens, and with how ESO has developed over the years, things have changed in a different direction than how the game used to work. Group play is now encouraged, and we are not expected to live if surrounded by a group of competent players. So.... if a Warden spams Cliff Racers on you from behind a group, and you are sitting there helpless, taking in all of the damage alone, you should die immediately. People aren't understanding that unfortunately.
This was also why proc sets were allowed to become so prevalent in PvP. It was unimportant if procs hurt solo players as long as they were balanced in a group setting. Most of the broken asf proc sets were nerfed for the singular reason that they over performed in group play such as BGs too, and even this took a looong time to get nerfed.
A lot of these complaints..... they come from people who have truly misunderstood the current and permanent direction of ESO. These people will NEVER BE SATISFIED. It is impossible for them to be satisfied. They complain of being zerged when the game is setup to be balanced around PvE and Group PvP, rather than 1vX. Everyone admits to slaughtering Mag Wardens easily, but then says nerf em because the one dude at the back of the zerg killed them through their roll dodge spam. This is why these Forums will always QQ no matter what Wrobel does. As a whole, balance is better right now that it has been in awhile, besides the proc sets ofc. You won't hear any of this though reading any thread on this site.
+1 bruh. Ez +10 -
Sarato✭✭✭@Ch4mpTW The fact that you choose a side is unfair and your opinions begin to be striped of their credibility. PvE is better than PvP? Wrong. Both are insanely important aspects of the game. Stop trolling. You know @kargen27 is correct.
@Vaoh Just because I have an easy time with magwardens, OFF of that one comment from my many experiences, DOES NOT mean they're not OP OR doesn't change the fact that there's a chance they'll be OP in the future lol. I like everything else you said.Take me drunk, I'm home. Fav song: Pony - Ginuwine1 -
ThePrinceOfBargains✭✭✭✭✭
✭So Magic Wardens DO suck in PVE, that's great. I mean it's not great lol, but that means I don't necessarily just suck.0 -
leeshi✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »They're the worst PvE class, by a country mile. They desperately need buffs.
I know PvP is a different story, but this isn't just a PvP game. Classes need to be balanced for both modes.
The easiest solution would be to improve the class passives (warden passives don't do enough to buff damage at the moment) and give the bear an AOE attack when cast. If this makes them too strong in PvP, just make cliff racer dodgeable. Simple.
By that logic Nightblades are next to get buffed? As we suck in PvE but hold our own in PvP.
Huh? Stamblade is one of the top dps (stam based at least) in pve. Magblade beats out non-pet sorc builds and are definitely no slouch when it comes to pve.
And as mentioned nbs excel in the pvp world.
I mean I wouldn't mind nbs being buffed since I have 3 of them, but let's be real here... if you think nb sucks in pve you're probably doing it wrong.
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