Should Maintenance have ETAs?
-
Hippie4927✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NO I'm happy to be underinformed and will happily tolerate the lack of information or updates as a paying customerpuffytheslayer wrote: »ETA doesn't mean what i think you all think it means!
ETA - estimating time approximatelyPC/NA/EP ✌️1 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO I'm happy to be underinformed and will happily tolerate the lack of information or updates as a paying customerHippie4927 wrote: »puffytheslayer wrote: »ETA doesn't mean what i think you all think it means!
ETA - estimating time approximately
... Estimated Time of Arrival...1 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭YES of course maintenance should have ETA's! - even if it is lengthy, I can plan around itStackonClown wrote: »ETA, sometime the same day the maintenance starts.
Just looking at your post shows why they would be totally insane to even think about giving more exact information than that. Just the slightest touch of opinionated bias in that poll, no? Divines forbid they go 5 minutes over any eta they give; rabid rants about compensation, refunds, free stuff, and all the other stuff that's been posted with every single longer than the poster thinks is appropriate downtime would show up.
This thread is a case in point.
By the way, you really should specify; "paying customer".....is that someone who subbed, or someone who paid once for the game? How long does the cost of the game without a sub cover the right to rant that a "paying customer" isn't getting the value they paid for? Even though that paying customer agreed to the ToS?
{edit; spelling}
You're making baseless assumptions about my reaction - you havent read my posts at all.. Who wants compensations? just keep us informed if you're running late.. Dont assume my reaction and enforce that on me... Why should it matter, people paid for the game and/or subbed - i did both -
You haven't been on the forums for long? Maintenance taking "too long", unexpected maintenance....About 21 pages worth.... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/search?adv=&search=compensation+downtime&title=&author=&cat=all&tags=&discussion_d=1&discussion_question=1&discussion_poll=1&comment_c=1&comment_answer=1&within=1+day&date=
Ongoing service; someone worked out how much an hour of ESO costs, once upon a time, in one of those "I demand compensation because I can't play" threads. So if someone isn't subbed, how many hours of the gameplay did they "pay" for? Someone who subs continues to pay, so might have a slight edge claiming they aren't getting the service they're paying for. However anyone who plays accepted the ToS, and access to the game isn't really guaranteed. {Yes, I'm still subbed, and have a second account. Guess I should really be demanding information as a paying customer.]
ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or all geographic locations, at any given time, or that ZeniMax will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time.
Things happen; they have in the past, where something went wrong and the maintenance took a lot longer than they hoped. If Gina and company had to keep posting "Not yet but we're working on it" if something glitched in the patch, they'd deserve combat pay for the abuse they'd get.
For the record, the way you phrased the second "option" is why I said compensation. Bringing up "paying customer" usually leads to some kind of demand. Or were you simply baiting anyone who doesn't agree with your first poll option?
people can demand compensation - doesnt mean they will get it
Further ETAs are approximations by definition - Ive said a few times to the neareset hour should work, wouldn't it?
As for my second option - it wasnt a reference to compensation, nor trying to bait people who disagree, obviously I have a bias, but trying to remined people that as a paying customer they shouldn't take this lying down and even defend it? Why?
Almost every other organisation I deal with where I would expect an ETA - guess what - provides an ETA!
Not only does Zenny not do that - but there are a bastion of people that seem willing to defend that approach with wild arguments like people 'will scream in the streets if its 1 minute overtime'.
People ask for compensation daily - meh - forget that..
How long do you need to be on the forums to be 'long enough'?Edited by StackonClown on July 17, 2017 12:02PM0 -
HalloweenWeed✭✭✭NO I'm happy to be underinformed and will happily tolerate the lack of information or updates as a paying customerI have played games where the server downtime had ETAs, and they were notoriously & wildly inaccurate. Even with ETAs you still end up with trial and failure to connect, no better IMO.
What I would like to see is a lot more honesty in the maintenance finished - reported time. I have tried to log in at 6AM EDT and couldn't, due to update will not start downloading (or even say it needed to), then MUCH later in the day it was reported that the maintenance was finished at 4AM EDT.Edited by HalloweenWeed on July 17, 2017 12:09PM0 -
Slick_007✭✭✭✭✭
✭StackonClown wrote: »So you say, keep to the ETA and delay any problem if/that occurs during the maint. just to keep up with the ETA?
I'll pass.
not sure what you're referring to.
MY approach would be:
provide ETA
perform maintenance
stick to ETA
if within ETA all gud
if going overtime - deal with it - fix problem
keep playerbase regularly informed - e.g. every 30 minutes is enough
finish maintenance
thanks for coming!
you left out deal with rude and abusive players when eta is missed. as i said, if you really had a point, your poll would have 2 balanced options. it doesnt.1 -
redshirt_49✭✭✭✭StackonClown wrote: »Lots of people in different timezones are affected differently by Maintenance - people outside of US/EU often have maintenance during prime time - Wouldn't it be useful to have an ETA - to the nearest hour?
I, uh, feel like the phrasing of your option is heavily biased x)1 -
bebynnag✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hippie4927 wrote: »puffytheslayer wrote: »ETA doesn't mean what i think you all think it means!
ETA - estimating time approximately
im asuming joke because it made me giggle
0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This, its pretty standard in gaming to not give ETA for patches because of trolls.At work, we do expect the IT team to give a planning for a regular maintenance...
We should get an ETA but I dont see this happening.
Yes, but the difference is that in your work it's all professionals, there isn't a large portion of whiny trolls who desperately watch for something to complain about. It's not that they can't give a fairly accurate ETA, it's that they don't because they will get a far more negative and volatile response to a missed ETA then you would in your environment. It's a damned if you do, damned it you don't kind of thing.
However I think ESO downtime is long, it might be that they do plenty of testing before putting server life as the database and file updates should not take so long.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Onigar✭✭✭If you get an ETA from ZOS the important point to note is the E in ETA, "Estimated", so tell me how that helps?
After playing the game for a while you get to know a patch can take 2 hours to 6 hours (ish) so we already have an ETA, one we generate ourselves and this is probably as accurate as one from ZOS.
However, did I miss something
Patch time allows for the creation of endless new discussion topics or for those with fingers that need to play there is the PTS with the newest "advances" in the game for us to try out and cheer (or cry) about Edited by Onigar on July 17, 2017 12:06PM0 -
Defilted✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO I'm happy to be underinformed and will happily tolerate the lack of information or updates as a paying customerIf you think installing software needs a ETA then you have never installed updates across several servers. It is not a straight line and almost never works out like it is supposed too.
A goal is a great thing. Communicating an actual time will just enrage the forums when they miss it. They could set a time so far in the future they would never miss it and that would be fine. Under promise and over deliver.XBOX NA
XBOX Series X
#NightmareBear1 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭YES of course maintenance should have ETA's! - even if it is lengthy, I can plan around itBobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Hippie4927 wrote: »puffytheslayer wrote: »ETA doesn't mean what i think you all think it means!
ETA - estimating time approximately
... Estimated Time of Arrival...
Yes - but it has a varition of the meaning in the sense of estimated time of 'return of service' in IT.0 -
cyclonus11✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO I'm happy to be underinformed and will happily tolerate the lack of information or updates as a paying customerNo. ETAs only breed disappointment. Let them take as long as they need.Edited by cyclonus11 on July 17, 2017 12:09PM0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭YES of course maintenance should have ETA's! - even if it is lengthy, I can plan around it
This, its pretty standard in gaming to not give ETA for patches because of trolls.At work, we do expect the IT team to give a planning for a regular maintenance...
We should get an ETA but I dont see this happening.
Yes, but the difference is that in your work it's all professionals, there isn't a large portion of whiny trolls who desperately watch for something to complain about. It's not that they can't give a fairly accurate ETA, it's that they don't because they will get a far more negative and volatile response to a missed ETA then you would in your environment. It's a damned if you do, damned it you don't kind of thing.
However I think ESO downtime is long, it might be that they do plenty of testing before putting server life as the database and file updates should not take so long.
"This, its pretty standard in gaming to not give ETA for patches because of trolls" ==> thanks, this might explain things a bit.. not happy about it but will read up to see if this tends to be the main reason.
But doesn't ESO have very few trolls relatively speaking? So even if Zenny gave ETAs, the trolls can be kept in their places, right ?
So we are being kept in the dark, because some Trolls bullied Zeni last time they gave ETAs ?Edited by StackonClown on July 17, 2017 12:13PM0 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YES of course maintenance should have ETA's! - even if it is lengthy, I can plan around itAdding an ETA for maintenance is pretty basic.
ZOS can add a countdown clock in the announcements message.
Like: "ETA: about 3 hours and 30 minutes".
I can understand that the end time of a maintenance can be unpredictable but it will be great to have an estimated time so it will be easier to schedule the day.
The waiting game for the maintenance to end requires checking the status every 10-30 minutes, it is a tiring task.
So it will be helpful to know if I need to wait 1 hour or 5 hours etc.Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince0 -
Chadak✭✭✭✭✭YES of course maintenance should have ETA's! - even if it is lengthy, I can plan around itIt doesn't make anything better, but at least this offers a credible-sounding explanation for maintenance.
As for the lack of ETA's...I fully expect its so they can take however long they want or need and nobody can say 'but you said 8 AM!' or 'You said 2 hours!'
Its crappy to basically be told 'It'll take however long I effing DECIDE it takes' every week, but there it is, and there it is likely to remain.
http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/156041789585/what-really-happens-during-mmo-server-maintenance
Edited by Chadak on July 17, 2017 12:14PM0 -
Iron_Butterfly✭✭✭Useless poll - hope the "designer" isn't venturing on a career that requires the creation of unbiased polls ie no loaded questions and/or answers.
2 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NO I'm happy to be underinformed and will happily tolerate the lack of information or updates as a paying customerETAs for maintenance are just made up anyway"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
0 -
ilander✭✭✭YES of course maintenance should have ETA's! - even if it is lengthy, I can plan around itPerhaps even providing a minimum downtime figure would be a good idea instead of an estimated finish time. There will be processes that definitely take X minutes to do (or in many cases X hours) so they could just provide us with that information:
"The server will be down for a minimum of 2 hours" isn't too hard a message to give us.
This would give more "hardcore" players like myself a chance to maybe wash or eat for the first time in days or perhaps even something radical like exchanging pleasantries with a family member!Most Averagest Player EU PvP - More averager than you'll ever be.. GUARANTEED!0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO I'm happy to be underinformed and will happily tolerate the lack of information or updates as a paying customerThe biggest difference having an ETA would mean is more complaining because the maintenance to longer than the ETA or did not take as long as the ETA suggested, even if it is minimal difference.1 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StackonClown wrote: »StackonClown wrote: »ETA, sometime the same day the maintenance starts.
Just looking at your post shows why they would be totally insane to even think about giving more exact information than that. Just the slightest touch of opinionated bias in that poll, no? Divines forbid they go 5 minutes over any eta they give; rabid rants about compensation, refunds, free stuff, and all the other stuff that's been posted with every single longer than the poster thinks is appropriate downtime would show up.
This thread is a case in point.
By the way, you really should specify; "paying customer".....is that someone who subbed, or someone who paid once for the game? How long does the cost of the game without a sub cover the right to rant that a "paying customer" isn't getting the value they paid for? Even though that paying customer agreed to the ToS?
{edit; spelling}
You're making baseless assumptions about my reaction - you havent read my posts at all.. Who wants compensations? just keep us informed if you're running late.. Dont assume my reaction and enforce that on me... Why should it matter, people paid for the game and/or subbed - i did both -
You haven't been on the forums for long? Maintenance taking "too long", unexpected maintenance....About 21 pages worth.... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/search?adv=&search=compensation+downtime&title=&author=&cat=all&tags=&discussion_d=1&discussion_question=1&discussion_poll=1&comment_c=1&comment_answer=1&within=1+day&date=
Ongoing service; someone worked out how much an hour of ESO costs, once upon a time, in one of those "I demand compensation because I can't play" threads. So if someone isn't subbed, how many hours of the gameplay did they "pay" for? Someone who subs continues to pay, so might have a slight edge claiming they aren't getting the service they're paying for. However anyone who plays accepted the ToS, and access to the game isn't really guaranteed. {Yes, I'm still subbed, and have a second account. Guess I should really be demanding information as a paying customer.]
ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or all geographic locations, at any given time, or that ZeniMax will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time.
Things happen; they have in the past, where something went wrong and the maintenance took a lot longer than they hoped. If Gina and company had to keep posting "Not yet but we're working on it" if something glitched in the patch, they'd deserve combat pay for the abuse they'd get.
For the record, the way you phrased the second "option" is why I said compensation. Bringing up "paying customer" usually leads to some kind of demand. Or were you simply baiting anyone who doesn't agree with your first poll option?
people can demand compensation - doesnt mean they will get it
Further ETAs are approximations by definition - Ive said a few times to the neareset hour should work, wouldn't it?
As for my second option - it wasnt a reference to compensation, nor trying to bait people who disagree, obviously I have a bias, but trying to remined people that as a paying customer they shouldn't take this lying down and even defend it? Why?
Almost every other organisation I deal with where I would expect an ETA - guess what - provides an ETA!
Not only does Zenny not do that - but there are a bastion of people that seem willing to defend that approach with wild arguments like people 'will scream in the streets if its 1 minute overtime'.
People ask for compensation daily - meh - forget that..
How long do you need to be on the forums to be 'long enough'?
Long enough to see the myriad "Maintenance too long, give stuff" threads. There have been a couple. As for the "wild argument that people will scream if its a minute over", posters are saying that because the posters have seen it happen.
There is a difference between a service that has to hit a schedule, and patching games. Even with some of the scheduled services your "eta" is really broad, usually some point during the day. My package will be delivered by 8 pm on X date. Might come at 9 am, or 2 pm, as long as its the same day they made their eta. And that is with everything running perfectly. Patching games can run perfectly, but then, sometimes the patches don't. Patches can break things and need to be patched again. Sometimes the whole thing has to come down again, sometimes just a hotfix. However they are done usually the same day. So why bother with saying "Maintenance will finish by 8 pm." when that is the norm? If something really glitches and it will be more than one day, then yes, I'll agree. Otherwise, not really.0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭YES of course maintenance should have ETA's! - even if it is lengthy, I can plan around itGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »The biggest difference having an ETA would mean is more complaining because the maintenance to longer than the ETA or did not take as long as the ETA suggested, even if it is minimal difference.
Who are the supposed people that will complain - so we dont do things now in anticipation of future complaining by a few trolls?0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NO I'm happy to be underinformed and will happily tolerate the lack of information or updates as a paying customerFirst, always vote contrary to pollster intention when they load on baggage to answers.
Second, never post an ETA you cannot make. it leads to rancor when people plan around it and it then fails. No promise is better than broken promises.
Third, this is not something they can know ahead of time given there are sometimes issues they find that need adjusting during patch. So it is not something they could do reliably.
Fourth, the only way the could reliably do it and meet their timeline is to way overestimate and then hold to that estimate even if it all went great... so this boils down to making downtimes longer.
So, no, no need for ETA and trying to do so would be bad.
best thing that might work is a sort of meter bar showing the completed stages like upload, testing, revisions, and then a final "one hour to launch" stage where patch notes are up but system still not live (extra one hour added for folks to prepare) but even then any accurate time of launch would be prone to cause sudden crowd syndromes.
Tho one possibility might be to always restart on the hour, so you know if you come by at 11:05 you dont need to check back for 55m. Again, adding downtime for no good reason.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."3 -
BlanketFort✭✭✭✭YES of course maintenance should have ETA's! - even if it is lengthy, I can plan around itI gotta say though, today's maintenance was just what, 2-hours long? That's a massive improvement!0 -
Morgul667✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YES of course maintenance should have ETA's! - even if it is lengthy, I can plan around itIt's up0 -
Kurkikohtaus✭✭✭YES of course maintenance should have ETA's! - even if it is lengthy, I can plan around itWhat do they do during server maintenance, the regular one that does not involve a patch?0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭YES of course maintenance should have ETA's! - even if it is lengthy, I can plan around itBlanketFort wrote: »I gotta say though, today's maintenance was just what, 2-hours long? That's a massive improvement!
So they could have given an estimate of 3 hours maybe - anyway can't really play tonight - have fun with your crates!!0 -
drakhan2002_ESO✭✭✭✭✭NO I'm happy to be underinformed and will happily tolerate the lack of information or updates as a paying customerI chose "No" because this poll is clearly biased toward "Yes"; also, I'd rather them take the time they need because it's also clear the OP has no idea how maintenance in IT works...there are so many variables when implementing technology that even an ETA will be missed occasionally. Best to just keep an eye on the forum update or the Twitter feed to know when the servers are back up.
Maintenance will be something we will have to live for the foreseeable future...why not get 'zen' and just accept it as part of what needs to occur - with or without an ETA?1 -
Hippie4927✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NO I'm happy to be underinformed and will happily tolerate the lack of information or updates as a paying customerpuffytheslayer wrote: »Hippie4927 wrote: »puffytheslayer wrote: »ETA doesn't mean what i think you all think it means!
ETA - estimating time approximately
im asuming joke because it made me giggle
Yes, joke! *giggles with you*
PC/NA/EP ✌️0
