Emma_Overload wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Copy my response to shields from another thread....

The poster I replied to made these statements so I went with those numbers.

2 shields to stack worth of roughly 20-25k damage absorption that take 2 seconds to put up
Lets say each player does roughly 5k damage every global right?

My response explaining why it's a problem.

Remember those players cannot crit the shields. So are you suggesting it's 5k dps per player against the non-crit shield or against the sorc with shields down. Even that though in a 1v1 they can negate 10-12.5k dps per seconds against a target doing 5k dps (or less depending on how you came up with 5k and crits). So shield, shield, dmg, dmg - rinse repeat and the DPS would never touch the enemies health.

Though even if they did it would take another 4 GCD (assuming ~19-20k health - again depending how you came up with 5k dps) to chew through their health. So really more like shield, shield, dmg, dmg, dmg and you'd realistically take no damage or at least no chance of dying. Now if you throw in runes that for 1 GCD can stun and do dmg (possibly mutliple times) you can shield, shield, runes, dmg, dmg, dmg (maybe more if they are then CC'd by runes) with little risk of taking real damage. If you take into account that the DPS may have to cast a heal every so many GCD's the dps race gets even worse and the sorc can cast more dmg and less shield (to the point the 6s cooldown limits them but then they can interleave the shields and not need to cast back to back).

CC wouldn't help the dps since that's a GCD to CC but a GCD to break free so it's a wash. And by not having to block, there's not a really a huge risk of not having stamina to break free since it's not being used for anything else (Amberplasm is a good example of this).

So while magic and stam regen both took a nerf, vigor also took a nerf so the attacker will deplete resources even quicker than before. Stam abilities costs also were increased in general while shields were not. Also simply ignoring the highest DPS class is probably not a good counter.

Having the ability to use 1 GCD to negate 2-3 GCD of attacks indefinitely sets the risk to almost 0 while still allowing significant dps.

This will get worse with burst damage decreasing. It also doesn't take into account monster sets that reduce incoming damage.

One BIG problem with your math, professor... there are guys out there doing WAY more than 12K DPS. This is really bad for a typical Sorc like me, because my Hardened Ward, which is my biggest shield, is ONLY around 12K. Harness Magicka is much smaller and isn't even worth casting against stamina builds. That means that whenever one of these overpowered, buffed up "procblade" builds gets up in my face, I'm going to die for sure unless I can Streak away in time.

Minno wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Copy my response to shields from another thread....

The poster I replied to made these statements so I went with those numbers.

2 shields to stack worth of roughly 20-25k damage absorption that take 2 seconds to put up
Lets say each player does roughly 5k damage every global right?

My response explaining why it's a problem.

Remember those players cannot crit the shields. So are you suggesting it's 5k dps per player against the non-crit shield or against the sorc with shields down. Even that though in a 1v1 they can negate 10-12.5k dps per seconds against a target doing 5k dps (or less depending on how you came up with 5k and crits). So shield, shield, dmg, dmg - rinse repeat and the DPS would never touch the enemies health.

Though even if they did it would take another 4 GCD (assuming ~19-20k health - again depending how you came up with 5k dps) to chew through their health. So really more like shield, shield, dmg, dmg, dmg and you'd realistically take no damage or at least no chance of dying. Now if you throw in runes that for 1 GCD can stun and do dmg (possibly mutliple times) you can shield, shield, runes, dmg, dmg, dmg (maybe more if they are then CC'd by runes) with little risk of taking real damage. If you take into account that the DPS may have to cast a heal every so many GCD's the dps race gets even worse and the sorc can cast more dmg and less shield (to the point the 6s cooldown limits them but then they can interleave the shields and not need to cast back to back).

CC wouldn't help the dps since that's a GCD to CC but a GCD to break free so it's a wash. And by not having to block, there's not a really a huge risk of not having stamina to break free since it's not being used for anything else (Amberplasm is a good example of this).

So while magic and stam regen both took a nerf, vigor also took a nerf so the attacker will deplete resources even quicker than before. Stam abilities costs also were increased in general while shields were not. Also simply ignoring the highest DPS class is probably not a good counter.

Having the ability to use 1 GCD to negate 2-3 GCD of attacks indefinitely sets the risk to almost 0 while still allowing significant dps.

This will get worse with burst damage decreasing. It also doesn't take into account monster sets that reduce incoming damage.

One BIG problem with your math, professor... there are guys out there doing WAY more than 12K DPS. This is really bad for a typical Sorc like me, because my Hardened Ward, which is my biggest shield, is ONLY around 12K. Harness Magicka is much smaller and isn't even worth casting against stamina builds. That means that whenever one of these overpowered, buffed up "procblade" builds gets up in my face, I'm going to die for sure unless I can Streak away in time.

So Mythbuster, can you show me some vids or screenshots of people doing 12K DPS consistently (not 1 miracle hit out of 20) against shields? I'd like to see the setup that CONSISTENTLY hits a shield with 0 crit bonus for 12k. Actually scratch that, I'd like to see your definition of WAY more than 12k against uncritable shields. I really would. So 15k against those sheilds that's not a fluke hit... consistent. And all shield, not ... oh they had 100 pts left on their shield and the rest was against health. All shield for 15k all the time. OH and the rest of the stats for that build - even if it exists they've made a sacrifice to be that bursty. What's the sacrifice of 1 GCD negating 12k instantly and granting crit immunity?

It's not about doing raw DMG on the shield but timing your burst around a CC opportunity in which you deny your enemy the ability to re-cast his shield.

9/10 times you will kill a Sorc if you CC them right at the last second before their shields expire. It's not hard.

Think of it this way, it's like eating lobster:
- do you take the biggest knife you have and try to cut through the hard shell?
- or do you find a joint, break an opening, and then push the meat out?

Minno wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Copy my response to shields from another thread....

The poster I replied to made these statements so I went with those numbers.

2 shields to stack worth of roughly 20-25k damage absorption that take 2 seconds to put up
Lets say each player does roughly 5k damage every global right?

My response explaining why it's a problem.

Remember those players cannot crit the shields. So are you suggesting it's 5k dps per player against the non-crit shield or against the sorc with shields down. Even that though in a 1v1 they can negate 10-12.5k dps per seconds against a target doing 5k dps (or less depending on how you came up with 5k and crits). So shield, shield, dmg, dmg - rinse repeat and the DPS would never touch the enemies health.

Though even if they did it would take another 4 GCD (assuming ~19-20k health - again depending how you came up with 5k dps) to chew through their health. So really more like shield, shield, dmg, dmg, dmg and you'd realistically take no damage or at least no chance of dying. Now if you throw in runes that for 1 GCD can stun and do dmg (possibly mutliple times) you can shield, shield, runes, dmg, dmg, dmg (maybe more if they are then CC'd by runes) with little risk of taking real damage. If you take into account that the DPS may have to cast a heal every so many GCD's the dps race gets even worse and the sorc can cast more dmg and less shield (to the point the 6s cooldown limits them but then they can interleave the shields and not need to cast back to back).

CC wouldn't help the dps since that's a GCD to CC but a GCD to break free so it's a wash. And by not having to block, there's not a really a huge risk of not having stamina to break free since it's not being used for anything else (Amberplasm is a good example of this).

So while magic and stam regen both took a nerf, vigor also took a nerf so the attacker will deplete resources even quicker than before. Stam abilities costs also were increased in general while shields were not. Also simply ignoring the highest DPS class is probably not a good counter.

Having the ability to use 1 GCD to negate 2-3 GCD of attacks indefinitely sets the risk to almost 0 while still allowing significant dps.

This will get worse with burst damage decreasing. It also doesn't take into account monster sets that reduce incoming damage.

One BIG problem with your math, professor... there are guys out there doing WAY more than 12K DPS. This is really bad for a typical Sorc like me, because my Hardened Ward, which is my biggest shield, is ONLY around 12K. Harness Magicka is much smaller and isn't even worth casting against stamina builds. That means that whenever one of these overpowered, buffed up "procblade" builds gets up in my face, I'm going to die for sure unless I can Streak away in time.

So Mythbuster, can you show me some vids or screenshots of people doing 12K DPS consistently (not 1 miracle hit out of 20) against shields? I'd like to see the setup that CONSISTENTLY hits a shield with 0 crit bonus for 12k. Actually scratch that, I'd like to see your definition of WAY more than 12k against uncritable shields. I really would. So 15k against those sheilds that's not a fluke hit... consistent. And all shield, not ... oh they had 100 pts left on their shield and the rest was against health. All shield for 15k all the time. OH and the rest of the stats for that build - even if it exists they've made a sacrifice to be that bursty. What's the sacrifice of 1 GCD negating 12k instantly and granting crit immunity?

It's not about doing raw DMG on the shield but timing your burst around a CC opportunity in which you deny your enemy the ability to re-cast his shield.

9/10 times you will kill a Sorc if you CC them right at the last second before their shields expire. It's not hard.

Think of it this way, it's like eating lobster:
- do you take the biggest knife you have and try to cut through the hard shell?
- or do you find a joint, break an opening, and then push the meat out?

lrizo wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Copy my response to shields from another thread....

The poster I replied to made these statements so I went with those numbers.

2 shields to stack worth of roughly 20-25k damage absorption that take 2 seconds to put up
Lets say each player does roughly 5k damage every global right?

My response explaining why it's a problem.

Remember those players cannot crit the shields. So are you suggesting it's 5k dps per player against the non-crit shield or against the sorc with shields down. Even that though in a 1v1 they can negate 10-12.5k dps per seconds against a target doing 5k dps (or less depending on how you came up with 5k and crits). So shield, shield, dmg, dmg - rinse repeat and the DPS would never touch the enemies health.

Though even if they did it would take another 4 GCD (assuming ~19-20k health - again depending how you came up with 5k dps) to chew through their health. So really more like shield, shield, dmg, dmg, dmg and you'd realistically take no damage or at least no chance of dying. Now if you throw in runes that for 1 GCD can stun and do dmg (possibly mutliple times) you can shield, shield, runes, dmg, dmg, dmg (maybe more if they are then CC'd by runes) with little risk of taking real damage. If you take into account that the DPS may have to cast a heal every so many GCD's the dps race gets even worse and the sorc can cast more dmg and less shield (to the point the 6s cooldown limits them but then they can interleave the shields and not need to cast back to back).

CC wouldn't help the dps since that's a GCD to CC but a GCD to break free so it's a wash. And by not having to block, there's not a really a huge risk of not having stamina to break free since it's not being used for anything else (Amberplasm is a good example of this).

So while magic and stam regen both took a nerf, vigor also took a nerf so the attacker will deplete resources even quicker than before. Stam abilities costs also were increased in general while shields were not. Also simply ignoring the highest DPS class is probably not a good counter.

Having the ability to use 1 GCD to negate 2-3 GCD of attacks indefinitely sets the risk to almost 0 while still allowing significant dps.

This will get worse with burst damage decreasing. It also doesn't take into account monster sets that reduce incoming damage.

One BIG problem with your math, professor... there are guys out there doing WAY more than 12K DPS. This is really bad for a typical Sorc like me, because my Hardened Ward, which is my biggest shield, is ONLY around 12K. Harness Magicka is much smaller and isn't even worth casting against stamina builds. That means that whenever one of these overpowered, buffed up "procblade" builds gets up in my face, I'm going to die for sure unless I can Streak away in time.

So Mythbuster, can you show me some vids or screenshots of people doing 12K DPS consistently (not 1 miracle hit out of 20) against shields? I'd like to see the setup that CONSISTENTLY hits a shield with 0 crit bonus for 12k. Actually scratch that, I'd like to see your definition of WAY more than 12k against uncritable shields. I really would. So 15k against those sheilds that's not a fluke hit... consistent. And all shield, not ... oh they had 100 pts left on their shield and the rest was against health. All shield for 15k all the time. OH and the rest of the stats for that build - even if it exists they've made a sacrifice to be that bursty. What's the sacrifice of 1 GCD negating 12k instantly and granting crit immunity?

It's not about doing raw DMG on the shield but timing your burst around a CC opportunity in which you deny your enemy the ability to re-cast his shield.

9/10 times you will kill a Sorc if you CC them right at the last second before their shields expire. It's not hard.

Think of it this way, it's like eating lobster:
- do you take the biggest knife you have and try to cut through the hard shell?
- or do you find a joint, break an opening, and then push the meat out?

That's not really the case in practice for a couple reasons one is a sorc isn't going to let you just walk up and cc them and they are going to kite you, the second reason is even if you cc them you can only get off one attack before they break cc and apply shields again. The way you beat a sorc is by baiting them into dropping their shields and then bursting. My problem is the magic sorc meta on Xbox na. The way players are playing sorc is just stupid high sustainability and low damage. this is causing a lot of my fights with mag sorcs into draws because the way players are playing is they will not drop their shields. If they have to drop their shield to attempt to get a kill they usually wont they'll just reset the fight it's so annoying. They would rather the fight end in a draw than for someone to win

Mate if a sorc is specing more into sustainability and not putting out high damage; that is the pure definition of balance, is it not? sounds like the most balanced meta if you ask me.

Biro123 wrote: »

lrizo wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Copy my response to shields from another thread....

The poster I replied to made these statements so I went with those numbers.

2 shields to stack worth of roughly 20-25k damage absorption that take 2 seconds to put up
Lets say each player does roughly 5k damage every global right?

My response explaining why it's a problem.

Remember those players cannot crit the shields. So are you suggesting it's 5k dps per player against the non-crit shield or against the sorc with shields down. Even that though in a 1v1 they can negate 10-12.5k dps per seconds against a target doing 5k dps (or less depending on how you came up with 5k and crits). So shield, shield, dmg, dmg - rinse repeat and the DPS would never touch the enemies health.

Though even if they did it would take another 4 GCD (assuming ~19-20k health - again depending how you came up with 5k dps) to chew through their health. So really more like shield, shield, dmg, dmg, dmg and you'd realistically take no damage or at least no chance of dying. Now if you throw in runes that for 1 GCD can stun and do dmg (possibly mutliple times) you can shield, shield, runes, dmg, dmg, dmg (maybe more if they are then CC'd by runes) with little risk of taking real damage. If you take into account that the DPS may have to cast a heal every so many GCD's the dps race gets even worse and the sorc can cast more dmg and less shield (to the point the 6s cooldown limits them but then they can interleave the shields and not need to cast back to back).

CC wouldn't help the dps since that's a GCD to CC but a GCD to break free so it's a wash. And by not having to block, there's not a really a huge risk of not having stamina to break free since it's not being used for anything else (Amberplasm is a good example of this).

So while magic and stam regen both took a nerf, vigor also took a nerf so the attacker will deplete resources even quicker than before. Stam abilities costs also were increased in general while shields were not. Also simply ignoring the highest DPS class is probably not a good counter.

Having the ability to use 1 GCD to negate 2-3 GCD of attacks indefinitely sets the risk to almost 0 while still allowing significant dps.

This will get worse with burst damage decreasing. It also doesn't take into account monster sets that reduce incoming damage.

One BIG problem with your math, professor... there are guys out there doing WAY more than 12K DPS. This is really bad for a typical Sorc like me, because my Hardened Ward, which is my biggest shield, is ONLY around 12K. Harness Magicka is much smaller and isn't even worth casting against stamina builds. That means that whenever one of these overpowered, buffed up "procblade" builds gets up in my face, I'm going to die for sure unless I can Streak away in time.

So Mythbuster, can you show me some vids or screenshots of people doing 12K DPS consistently (not 1 miracle hit out of 20) against shields? I'd like to see the setup that CONSISTENTLY hits a shield with 0 crit bonus for 12k. Actually scratch that, I'd like to see your definition of WAY more than 12k against uncritable shields. I really would. So 15k against those sheilds that's not a fluke hit... consistent. And all shield, not ... oh they had 100 pts left on their shield and the rest was against health. All shield for 15k all the time. OH and the rest of the stats for that build - even if it exists they've made a sacrifice to be that bursty. What's the sacrifice of 1 GCD negating 12k instantly and granting crit immunity?

It's not about doing raw DMG on the shield but timing your burst around a CC opportunity in which you deny your enemy the ability to re-cast his shield.

9/10 times you will kill a Sorc if you CC them right at the last second before their shields expire. It's not hard.

Think of it this way, it's like eating lobster:
- do you take the biggest knife you have and try to cut through the hard shell?
- or do you find a joint, break an opening, and then push the meat out?

That's not really the case in practice for a couple reasons one is a sorc isn't going to let you just walk up and cc them and they are going to kite you, the second reason is even if you cc them you can only get off one attack before they break cc and apply shields again. The way you beat a sorc is by baiting them into dropping their shields and then bursting. My problem is the magic sorc meta on Xbox na. The way players are playing sorc is just stupid high sustainability and low damage. this is causing a lot of my fights with mag sorcs into draws because the way players are playing is they will not drop their shields. If they have to drop their shield to attempt to get a kill they usually wont they'll just reset the fight it's so annoying. They would rather the fight end in a draw than for someone to win

Mate if a sorc is specing more into sustainability and not putting out high damage; that is the pure definition of balance, is it not? sounds like the most balanced meta if you ask me.

Was kind of thinking that. Most sorc complaints I see complain about the combination if obscene burst, tankiness and mobility all in one. I've said till I'm blue in the face that you can't get all in one.
I generally go for damage/ survivability, but lack sustain and mobility. Its great at bursting potatoes (and probably causing tears), but against good players who know how to defend (or proper tanks) , I always run dry first.

Then they just say 'well your build sucks' No, it has a weakness which I accept to be able to benefit from its strengths. And that's the point. To get extreme X you have to give up Y. But so often people only see the extreme X on one player, then the extreme Y in another, and the extreme Z in a third, them start with the salt and an insane view that you can get all rolled up into one build.

thankyourat wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

lrizo wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Copy my response to shields from another thread....

The poster I replied to made these statements so I went with those numbers.

2 shields to stack worth of roughly 20-25k damage absorption that take 2 seconds to put up
Lets say each player does roughly 5k damage every global right?

My response explaining why it's a problem.

Remember those players cannot crit the shields. So are you suggesting it's 5k dps per player against the non-crit shield or against the sorc with shields down. Even that though in a 1v1 they can negate 10-12.5k dps per seconds against a target doing 5k dps (or less depending on how you came up with 5k and crits). So shield, shield, dmg, dmg - rinse repeat and the DPS would never touch the enemies health.

Though even if they did it would take another 4 GCD (assuming ~19-20k health - again depending how you came up with 5k dps) to chew through their health. So really more like shield, shield, dmg, dmg, dmg and you'd realistically take no damage or at least no chance of dying. Now if you throw in runes that for 1 GCD can stun and do dmg (possibly mutliple times) you can shield, shield, runes, dmg, dmg, dmg (maybe more if they are then CC'd by runes) with little risk of taking real damage. If you take into account that the DPS may have to cast a heal every so many GCD's the dps race gets even worse and the sorc can cast more dmg and less shield (to the point the 6s cooldown limits them but then they can interleave the shields and not need to cast back to back).

CC wouldn't help the dps since that's a GCD to CC but a GCD to break free so it's a wash. And by not having to block, there's not a really a huge risk of not having stamina to break free since it's not being used for anything else (Amberplasm is a good example of this).

So while magic and stam regen both took a nerf, vigor also took a nerf so the attacker will deplete resources even quicker than before. Stam abilities costs also were increased in general while shields were not. Also simply ignoring the highest DPS class is probably not a good counter.

Having the ability to use 1 GCD to negate 2-3 GCD of attacks indefinitely sets the risk to almost 0 while still allowing significant dps.

This will get worse with burst damage decreasing. It also doesn't take into account monster sets that reduce incoming damage.

One BIG problem with your math, professor... there are guys out there doing WAY more than 12K DPS. This is really bad for a typical Sorc like me, because my Hardened Ward, which is my biggest shield, is ONLY around 12K. Harness Magicka is much smaller and isn't even worth casting against stamina builds. That means that whenever one of these overpowered, buffed up "procblade" builds gets up in my face, I'm going to die for sure unless I can Streak away in time.

So Mythbuster, can you show me some vids or screenshots of people doing 12K DPS consistently (not 1 miracle hit out of 20) against shields? I'd like to see the setup that CONSISTENTLY hits a shield with 0 crit bonus for 12k. Actually scratch that, I'd like to see your definition of WAY more than 12k against uncritable shields. I really would. So 15k against those sheilds that's not a fluke hit... consistent. And all shield, not ... oh they had 100 pts left on their shield and the rest was against health. All shield for 15k all the time. OH and the rest of the stats for that build - even if it exists they've made a sacrifice to be that bursty. What's the sacrifice of 1 GCD negating 12k instantly and granting crit immunity?

It's not about doing raw DMG on the shield but timing your burst around a CC opportunity in which you deny your enemy the ability to re-cast his shield.

9/10 times you will kill a Sorc if you CC them right at the last second before their shields expire. It's not hard.

Think of it this way, it's like eating lobster:
- do you take the biggest knife you have and try to cut through the hard shell?
- or do you find a joint, break an opening, and then push the meat out?

That's not really the case in practice for a couple reasons one is a sorc isn't going to let you just walk up and cc them and they are going to kite you, the second reason is even if you cc them you can only get off one attack before they break cc and apply shields again. The way you beat a sorc is by baiting them into dropping their shields and then bursting. My problem is the magic sorc meta on Xbox na. The way players are playing sorc is just stupid high sustainability and low damage. this is causing a lot of my fights with mag sorcs into draws because the way players are playing is they will not drop their shields. If they have to drop their shield to attempt to get a kill they usually wont they'll just reset the fight it's so annoying. They would rather the fight end in a draw than for someone to win

Mate if a sorc is specing more into sustainability and not putting out high damage; that is the pure definition of balance, is it not? sounds like the most balanced meta if you ask me.

Was kind of thinking that. Most sorc complaints I see complain about the combination if obscene burst, tankiness and mobility all in one. I've said till I'm blue in the face that you can't get all in one.
I generally go for damage/ survivability, but lack sustain and mobility. Its great at bursting potatoes (and probably causing tears), but against good players who know how to defend (or proper tanks) , I always run dry first.

Then they just say 'well your build sucks' No, it has a weakness which I accept to be able to benefit from its strengths. And that's the point. To get extreme X you have to give up Y. But so often people only see the extreme X on one player, then the extreme Y in another, and the extreme Z in a third, them start with the salt and an insane view that you can get all rolled up into one build.

My complaint is that the high regen sorc builds are too survivalble especially if it's 1v1 so many of my fights with sorcs are ending I draws because i just can't burst through them.

thankyourat wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

But are they also not bursting through you?

No. usually they will not burst me down but that's because they play two defensive. It's been times where i would've died if the sorc would continue to apply pressure but almost always they will stop fighting to re-apply shields. The sorc class has high burst naturally so even on a high sustain build they will still have high burst damage because all their attacks hit during one global cool down.

Waffennacht wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

lrizo wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Copy my response to shields from another thread....

The poster I replied to made these statements so I went with those numbers.

2 shields to stack worth of roughly 20-25k damage absorption that take 2 seconds to put up
Lets say each player does roughly 5k damage every global right?

My response explaining why it's a problem.

Remember those players cannot crit the shields. So are you suggesting it's 5k dps per player against the non-crit shield or against the sorc with shields down. Even that though in a 1v1 they can negate 10-12.5k dps per seconds against a target doing 5k dps (or less depending on how you came up with 5k and crits). So shield, shield, dmg, dmg - rinse repeat and the DPS would never touch the enemies health.

Though even if they did it would take another 4 GCD (assuming ~19-20k health - again depending how you came up with 5k dps) to chew through their health. So really more like shield, shield, dmg, dmg, dmg and you'd realistically take no damage or at least no chance of dying. Now if you throw in runes that for 1 GCD can stun and do dmg (possibly mutliple times) you can shield, shield, runes, dmg, dmg, dmg (maybe more if they are then CC'd by runes) with little risk of taking real damage. If you take into account that the DPS may have to cast a heal every so many GCD's the dps race gets even worse and the sorc can cast more dmg and less shield (to the point the 6s cooldown limits them but then they can interleave the shields and not need to cast back to back).

CC wouldn't help the dps since that's a GCD to CC but a GCD to break free so it's a wash. And by not having to block, there's not a really a huge risk of not having stamina to break free since it's not being used for anything else (Amberplasm is a good example of this).

So while magic and stam regen both took a nerf, vigor also took a nerf so the attacker will deplete resources even quicker than before. Stam abilities costs also were increased in general while shields were not. Also simply ignoring the highest DPS class is probably not a good counter.

Having the ability to use 1 GCD to negate 2-3 GCD of attacks indefinitely sets the risk to almost 0 while still allowing significant dps.

This will get worse with burst damage decreasing. It also doesn't take into account monster sets that reduce incoming damage.

One BIG problem with your math, professor... there are guys out there doing WAY more than 12K DPS. This is really bad for a typical Sorc like me, because my Hardened Ward, which is my biggest shield, is ONLY around 12K. Harness Magicka is much smaller and isn't even worth casting against stamina builds. That means that whenever one of these overpowered, buffed up "procblade" builds gets up in my face, I'm going to die for sure unless I can Streak away in time.

So Mythbuster, can you show me some vids or screenshots of people doing 12K DPS consistently (not 1 miracle hit out of 20) against shields? I'd like to see the setup that CONSISTENTLY hits a shield with 0 crit bonus for 12k. Actually scratch that, I'd like to see your definition of WAY more than 12k against uncritable shields. I really would. So 15k against those sheilds that's not a fluke hit... consistent. And all shield, not ... oh they had 100 pts left on their shield and the rest was against health. All shield for 15k all the time. OH and the rest of the stats for that build - even if it exists they've made a sacrifice to be that bursty. What's the sacrifice of 1 GCD negating 12k instantly and granting crit immunity?

It's not about doing raw DMG on the shield but timing your burst around a CC opportunity in which you deny your enemy the ability to re-cast his shield.

9/10 times you will kill a Sorc if you CC them right at the last second before their shields expire. It's not hard.

Think of it this way, it's like eating lobster:
- do you take the biggest knife you have and try to cut through the hard shell?
- or do you find a joint, break an opening, and then push the meat out?

That's not really the case in practice for a couple reasons one is a sorc isn't going to let you just walk up and cc them and they are going to kite you, the second reason is even if you cc them you can only get off one attack before they break cc and apply shields again. The way you beat a sorc is by baiting them into dropping their shields and then bursting. My problem is the magic sorc meta on Xbox na. The way players are playing sorc is just stupid high sustainability and low damage. this is causing a lot of my fights with mag sorcs into draws because the way players are playing is they will not drop their shields. If they have to drop their shield to attempt to get a kill they usually wont they'll just reset the fight it's so annoying. They would rather the fight end in a draw than for someone to win

Mate if a sorc is specing more into sustainability and not putting out high damage; that is the pure definition of balance, is it not? sounds like the most balanced meta if you ask me.

Was kind of thinking that. Most sorc complaints I see complain about the combination if obscene burst, tankiness and mobility all in one. I've said till I'm blue in the face that you can't get all in one.
I generally go for damage/ survivability, but lack sustain and mobility. Its great at bursting potatoes (and probably causing tears), but against good players who know how to defend (or proper tanks) , I always run dry first.

Then they just say 'well your build sucks' No, it has a weakness which I accept to be able to benefit from its strengths. And that's the point. To get extreme X you have to give up Y. But so often people only see the extreme X on one player, then the extreme Y in another, and the extreme Z in a third, them start with the salt and an insane view that you can get all rolled up into one build.

My complaint is that the high regen sorc builds are too survivalble especially if it's 1v1 so many of my fights with sorcs are ending I draws because i just can't burst through them.

That's not a problem, not every battle can be won, but you didn't lose, that's balance. Killing is not the only form of PvP, while I agree it's silly to duel with a build that can't win - it's by no means OP

Yea i will usually just forfeit the fight before i waste all my pots. This becomes a huge problem in open world pvp though especially if you are a solo player mag sorc. Engaging in a fight with a mag sorc often times means i will get zerged down before i can kill him and he didn't even have to fight back just stand there shield stacking. I think this is why you see so many mag sorcs zerg zerfing. If they get into trouble just shield stack until the zerg arrives

Militan1404 wrote: »

lrizo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

lrizo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

The only reson all this cry about procblades nothing about sorc lately is becouse evryone is a fricking sorc and they cant stand thought of they are not on the top on the food chain anymore. With out proc set nightblades are back at the bottom with the rest of classes. Becouse its balance to have a class that has it all the burst to a nightblade and almost the tankines to a dk and if thats not enough they have one of the best execute to, and if things go wrong they just streak their way into oblivion.. and none of the other classes is even close to do all that, but thats balance right. And its not only pvp, zone chat is full of people that want sorc only sorcs and maybe 1 or 2 mag dk as dps with them in trials. And if someone complain about it a sorc apears and say "Are u stupid, u just put points into that and use that and so and so" awesome! What other class do have change ur entire bouild just to beat? And about that time another super geek apear and say "omg learn to play" or "adapt and overcome" its like a Lamborghini raceing a old Volvo and then brag about skills. But dont worry zenimax probely dont even dare to nerf them anyway after all the cry and people quiting about the sustain nerfs, if u think that was bad can u imagine 99% of the player base cry and rage quiting while the smashing their keyboard.

You are dumb!!

pve and pvp are completely different game styles mate. In pvp there are maybe 10 other builds for every one mag sorc. If you can't burst a sorc you suck and if you get bursted by a sorc with 1 rotation you also suck. Stop complaining.

And are smart then i assume, but i have no problem with killing at all sorcs at all. The problem is that they have better tools that makes their job much easier, i use normaly my stam dk in pvp but when i use my sorc i can it all so much easier and faster and i dont even leveld all my passives on it yet. And u gonna tell me i suck becouse im talking bad about ur class, maybe u are the one that suck that is so afraid that ur class is gonna get balanced so u actually have to more then spam a few buttons and hope for the best.

Mate when I have to sit here on the forums and do an FBI investigation to decrypt your *** literacy, that makes you dumb. And I do think you suck because the only players that come on the forums to add to "why so and so" needs to be nerfed is because a) they're getting piped or b) they can't pipe. It's called I've played the game long enough to know what other classes tendencies are. If your gonna fight a sorc the same way you do a stamblade your gonna get piped mate. When you look at top players for each class and I'm not talking about meta *** I'm talking about raw skill the sorcs are very balanced. A sorcs burst is very easy to read. If you don't like taking a shard to face on your Stam dk then use your Stam to block/dodge roll that ish.

Like i said i have no problem fighting sorc and if u need and a FBI investegation to undersatnd the point then im sorry about i couldnt make my point out good enough. I do not write here becouse im getting killed by sorcs all day long, my problem is that i have 12 characters and 2 magsorc 1 for pve and 1 one for pvp, and when i play my sorc i can reach my goal so much easier and its so much more forgiving then any of the other classes. I should probely sate that lately i been playing in no cp and there is where the gap really shows. I coldnt my self understand the hate on sorcs before i played one my self it, it just feels like easy mode, and it is so much easier to expose bad player on the other classes. Maybe the problem is that sorc is so perfectly balanced and the skills work so good together, where the other classes is missing on some parts that are the problem. U also state that i want all the classes to be the same, but thats not the case, i love the idea that all classes plays to their strengths, but what is a sorcerers strength? Is it their high burst? or their ways to survive? They have mobility, good cc, the gift of escape if it gets to hot, they even have a decent heal. And u say they are not that many, on ps4 eu they are atleast, if u are lucky to get a nightblade or a sorc in bounty quest u can get to 20 in 5min, try that with a templar or a dk. Btw sorry if my spelling is not the best, englishis not my mother language, and my spelling correct isnt doing me any favors:p

lrizo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

lrizo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

lrizo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

The only reson all this cry about procblades nothing about sorc lately is becouse evryone is a fricking sorc and they cant stand thought of they are not on the top on the food chain anymore. With out proc set nightblades are back at the bottom with the rest of classes. Becouse its balance to have a class that has it all the burst to a nightblade and almost the tankines to a dk and if thats not enough they have one of the best execute to, and if things go wrong they just streak their way into oblivion.. and none of the other classes is even close to do all that, but thats balance right. And its not only pvp, zone chat is full of people that want sorc only sorcs and maybe 1 or 2 mag dk as dps with them in trials. And if someone complain about it a sorc apears and say "Are u stupid, u just put points into that and use that and so and so" awesome! What other class do have change ur entire bouild just to beat? And about that time another super geek apear and say "omg learn to play" or "adapt and overcome" its like a Lamborghini raceing a old Volvo and then brag about skills. But dont worry zenimax probely dont even dare to nerf them anyway after all the cry and people quiting about the sustain nerfs, if u think that was bad can u imagine 99% of the player base cry and rage quiting while the smashing their keyboard.

You are dumb!!

pve and pvp are completely different game styles mate. In pvp there are maybe 10 other builds for every one mag sorc. If you can't burst a sorc you suck and if you get bursted by a sorc with 1 rotation you also suck. Stop complaining.

And are smart then i assume, but i have no problem with killing at all sorcs at all. The problem is that they have better tools that makes their job much easier, i use normaly my stam dk in pvp but when i use my sorc i can it all so much easier and faster and i dont even leveld all my passives on it yet. And u gonna tell me i suck becouse im talking bad about ur class, maybe u are the one that suck that is so afraid that ur class is gonna get balanced so u actually have to more then spam a few buttons and hope for the best.

Mate when I have to sit here on the forums and do an FBI investigation to decrypt your *** literacy, that makes you dumb. And I do think you suck because the only players that come on the forums to add to "why so and so" needs to be nerfed is because a) they're getting piped or b) they can't pipe. It's called I've played the game long enough to know what other classes tendencies are. If your gonna fight a sorc the same way you do a stamblade your gonna get piped mate. When you look at top players for each class and I'm not talking about meta *** I'm talking about raw skill the sorcs are very balanced. A sorcs burst is very easy to read. If you don't like taking a shard to face on your Stam dk then use your Stam to block/dodge roll that ish.

Like i said i have no problem fighting sorc and if u need and a FBI investegation to undersatnd the point then im sorry about i couldnt make my point out good enough. I do not write here becouse im getting killed by sorcs all day long, my problem is that i have 12 characters and 2 magsorc 1 for pve and 1 one for pvp, and when i play my sorc i can reach my goal so much easier and its so much more forgiving then any of the other classes. I should probely sate that lately i been playing in no cp and there is where the gap really shows. I coldnt my self understand the hate on sorcs before i played one my self it, it just feels like easy mode, and it is so much easier to expose bad player on the other classes. Maybe the problem is that sorc is so perfectly balanced and the skills work so good together, where the other classes is missing on some parts that are the problem. U also state that i want all the classes to be the same, but thats not the case, i love the idea that all classes plays to their strengths, but what is a sorcerers strength? Is it their high burst? or their ways to survive? They have mobility, good cc, the gift of escape if it gets to hot, they even have a decent heal. And u say they are not that many, on ps4 eu they are atleast, if u are lucky to get a nightblade or a sorc in bounty quest u can get to 20 in 5min, try that with a templar or a dk. Btw sorry if my spelling is not the best, englishis not my mother language, and my spelling correct isnt doing me any favors:p

I have no idea what non cp camp you're playing in but that is the most balanced type of play that is in the game mate. The only thing overperforming in non cp are proc sets. Anywho, I still laugh at the whole "easy mode, hard mode" *** that gets tossed around. The top players of any class will kill any other class regardless of "easy mode, hard mode" it's called reading the game and timing all your juju properly. I, not once, have mentioned that you want all classes to be the same. But anyway you can ask the same questions for any class out there. Templars have great burst with jabs, insane heals, and can purify. Nightblades arguably the highest dps class in the game, control tempo of fight, vigor/rally allow for great sustain. The list goes on and on mate. But here's where you're wrong about sorcs, mobility? That's a joke no class is mobile due to snares and gap closers. Great cc? You mean frag and streak which are blockable? What a joke... great escape? Yeah every class has a great escape except streak gets costly after 3 in a row. Lastly, here on the American servers we do things a bit differently, so you're comparing apples to oranges here mate. And wasn't it last post you said that the top 9 players in each camp were mag dk's?? I mean I'm no super wizard but that doesn't sound like sorcs are the new meta

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Really? My magblade plays sooo much easier!

Magicka Flood for free 8% max mag. Shade for Minor Maim and that sweet Necropotence buff. Together, my Magblade has a WAY stronger shield than my sorc. And I only need that single one.

Cloak lets me survive zerg encounters. It is much, MUCH better than Streak to escape. Being pulled out of it 50% of the time is still better than being gapclosed and killed 100% while stuck in midair and steak animation.

My Magblade's burst is GUARANTEED. Yes, I'm missing the telegraphed, purgable Curse, but an empowered Assassin's Will makes the total damage close. And while I'm sweating my bum off on my sorc to land that burst while every frag is dodged if I don't use the abyssmal Streak CC, my magblade only has to press one button to fear. Guaranteed burst. Sometimes isn't broken free immediately. Also applies a snare. And Minor Maim. And Shadow Barrier free 5k resistance, because WHY NOT?

I enjoy my sorc more, but boi... Claiming magblade would not be on par with magsorc and be more difficult to play is just sooo wrong.

Militan1404 wrote: »

lrizo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

lrizo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

lrizo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

The only reson all this cry about procblades nothing about sorc lately is becouse evryone is a fricking sorc and they cant stand thought of they are not on the top on the food chain anymore. With out proc set nightblades are back at the bottom with the rest of classes. Becouse its balance to have a class that has it all the burst to a nightblade and almost the tankines to a dk and if thats not enough they have one of the best execute to, and if things go wrong they just streak their way into oblivion.. and none of the other classes is even close to do all that, but thats balance right. And its not only pvp, zone chat is full of people that want sorc only sorcs and maybe 1 or 2 mag dk as dps with them in trials. And if someone complain about it a sorc apears and say "Are u stupid, u just put points into that and use that and so and so" awesome! What other class do have change ur entire bouild just to beat? And about that time another super geek apear and say "omg learn to play" or "adapt and overcome" its like a Lamborghini raceing a old Volvo and then brag about skills. But dont worry zenimax probely dont even dare to nerf them anyway after all the cry and people quiting about the sustain nerfs, if u think that was bad can u imagine 99% of the player base cry and rage quiting while the smashing their keyboard.

You are dumb!!

pve and pvp are completely different game styles mate. In pvp there are maybe 10 other builds for every one mag sorc. If you can't burst a sorc you suck and if you get bursted by a sorc with 1 rotation you also suck. Stop complaining.

And are smart then i assume, but i have no problem with killing at all sorcs at all. The problem is that they have better tools that makes their job much easier, i use normaly my stam dk in pvp but when i use my sorc i can it all so much easier and faster and i dont even leveld all my passives on it yet. And u gonna tell me i suck becouse im talking bad about ur class, maybe u are the one that suck that is so afraid that ur class is gonna get balanced so u actually have to more then spam a few buttons and hope for the best.

Mate when I have to sit here on the forums and do an FBI investigation to decrypt your *** literacy, that makes you dumb. And I do think you suck because the only players that come on the forums to add to "why so and so" needs to be nerfed is because a) they're getting piped or b) they can't pipe. It's called I've played the game long enough to know what other classes tendencies are. If your gonna fight a sorc the same way you do a stamblade your gonna get piped mate. When you look at top players for each class and I'm not talking about meta *** I'm talking about raw skill the sorcs are very balanced. A sorcs burst is very easy to read. If you don't like taking a shard to face on your Stam dk then use your Stam to block/dodge roll that ish.

Like i said i have no problem fighting sorc and if u need and a FBI investegation to undersatnd the point then im sorry about i couldnt make my point out good enough. I do not write here becouse im getting killed by sorcs all day long, my problem is that i have 12 characters and 2 magsorc 1 for pve and 1 one for pvp, and when i play my sorc i can reach my goal so much easier and its so much more forgiving then any of the other classes. I should probely sate that lately i been playing in no cp and there is where the gap really shows. I coldnt my self understand the hate on sorcs before i played one my self it, it just feels like easy mode, and it is so much easier to expose bad player on the other classes. Maybe the problem is that sorc is so perfectly balanced and the skills work so good together, where the other classes is missing on some parts that are the problem. U also state that i want all the classes to be the same, but thats not the case, i love the idea that all classes plays to their strengths, but what is a sorcerers strength? Is it their high burst? or their ways to survive? They have mobility, good cc, the gift of escape if it gets to hot, they even have a decent heal. And u say they are not that many, on ps4 eu they are atleast, if u are lucky to get a nightblade or a sorc in bounty quest u can get to 20 in 5min, try that with a templar or a dk. Btw sorry if my spelling is not the best, englishis not my mother language, and my spelling correct isnt doing me any favors:p

I have no idea what non cp camp you're playing in but that is the most balanced type of play that is in the game mate. The only thing overperforming in non cp are proc sets. Anywho, I still laugh at the whole "easy mode, hard mode" *** that gets tossed around. The top players of any class will kill any other class regardless of "easy mode, hard mode" it's called reading the game and timing all your juju properly. I, not once, have mentioned that you want all classes to be the same. But anyway you can ask the same questions for any class out there. Templars have great burst with jabs, insane heals, and can purify. Nightblades arguably the highest dps class in the game, control tempo of fight, vigor/rally allow for great sustain. The list goes on and on mate. But here's where you're wrong about sorcs, mobility? That's a joke no class is mobile due to snares and gap closers. Great cc? You mean frag and streak which are blockable? What a joke... great escape? Yeah every class has a great escape except streak gets costly after 3 in a row. Lastly, here on the American servers we do things a bit differently, so you're comparing apples to oranges here mate. And wasn't it last post you said that the top 9 players in each camp were mag dk's?? I mean I'm no super wizard but that doesn't sound like sorcs are the new meta

Dont remembet posted anything about mag dk but? I get it trying to protect a class, i said i didnt have a problem killing sorcs to if u actually read what i wrote. My problem is that why should be anything else when i can get what i want so much easier with the sorc? Nightblade i do great damage but not much room for mistake, templars cant say i have ever felt their great burst but ur right about their heals, dk have great survability but takes time to build proper dps, but why should i sacrifice any og that? When i play a sorc i can be both tanky and do great damage and have no problem keeping my heals up. So way should anyone sacrifice any of that to play another class? I find it hard to belive that im just a natural talent playing a sorc that it makes it feel so easy.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

What are you playing, Thankyou?

A sorc will 100% go when outnumbered, as shields don't scale and the burst is very predictable. Can even purge Curse.

If you're in a group fight, snare and gapclose, just don't let him re-position. He WILL die.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Really? My magblade plays sooo much easier!

Magicka Flood for free 8% max mag. Shade for Minor Maim and that sweet Necropotence buff. Together, my Magblade has a WAY stronger shield than my sorc. And I only need that single one.

Cloak lets me survive zerg encounters. It is much, MUCH better than Streak to escape. Being pulled out of it 50% of the time is still better than being gapclosed and killed 100% while stuck in midair and steak animation.

My Magblade's burst is GUARANTEED. Yes, I'm missing the telegraphed, purgable Curse, but an empowered Assassin's Will makes the total damage close. And while I'm sweating my bum off on my sorc to land that burst while every frag is dodged if I don't use the abyssmal Streak CC, my magblade only has to press one button to fear. Guaranteed burst. Sometimes isn't broken free immediately. Also applies a snare. And Minor Maim. And Shadow Barrier free 5k resistance, because WHY NOT?

I enjoy my sorc more, but boi... Claiming magblade would not be on par with magsorc and be more difficult to play is just sooo wrong.

In a sorc vs mag nb match up, the nb is 2 times better off with tons of additional buffs and debuffs, as well as generally higher stats and sustain. I'm seriously considering switching more to the NB nowadays as well.

Nooo! Cyrodiil has enough NBs already! And I want moar of your vids!
D'x

I think the misunderstanding of sorcs comes from the way Cyrodiil plays out and how sorcs choose to engage there.

Crappy CCs don't matter much when in a group fight NBs keep fearing or you simply don't see the purple glow. This circumvents the sorc burst's disadvantage often enough.

Stacking shields 100% just to survive - and only survive - is also a powerful move when you know reinforcements are coming.

Said points just happen to be irrelevant in duels or when you're outnumbered. People forget that.

But yeah, my sorc is super jealous of the NB passives and Fear. While I can perform well if I pick group fights on my sorc, I would give the edge for flexibility to my NB because of those two alone. Throw in Cloak and my NB might not be killing as much in group fights, but also dies less.