Buffing a Crafted Set: Oblivion's Foe - Deal more damage to Daedra

Avran_Sylt · July 2017

2 items) Adds 129 Health Recovery

(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery

(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery

(5 items) Increase the damage of your Soul Trap abilities by 100%. This is increased by an additional 100% against Undead and Daedra

This would make it a conditionally niche set for players in daedra focused dungeons.

(Edit: please also take into consideration THIS thread as well that discusses buffing the Soul Trap ability)

jkolb2030 · July 2017

would also make Soul Assault super ridiculous again in PvP.

Avran_Sylt · July 2017

@jkolb2030

It doesn't buff Soul Magic Skills, just Soul Trap and its morphs. Also, to my knowledge, Players are unable to become Daedra

PS4_ZeColmeia · July 2017

His point is that fighters guild does the same thing and affects WW and vamps.

Avran_Sylt · July 2017

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

His point is that fighters guild does the same thing and affects WW and vamps.

This concerns Soul Trap of the Soul Magic World Skill-line. I'm confused as to how fighter's guild comes into play. (especially since it's 20%)

PS4_ZeColmeia · July 2017

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

His point is that fighters guild does the same thing and affects WW and vamps.

This concerns Soul Trap of the Soul Magic World Skill-line. I'm confused as to how fighter's guild comes into play. (especially since it's 20%)

I get that it's soul magic, but I was pointing out that there is no deadra specific gear. The only thing that hits daedra harder, currently, also affects WW and vamps as well. That is why the other person had the concern.

The only thing that will save this set is making it double ALL soul magic damage including the ultimate for which the ultimate should be toned down, slightly. The idea is the the explosion passive, the ultimate, and soul trap all could be useful for the trade of using a 5pc slot. Not sure it would make this an awesome set, but definitely save it from a waste of code.

Avran_Sylt · July 2017

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

His point is that fighters guild does the same thing and affects WW and vamps.

This concerns Soul Trap of the Soul Magic World Skill-line. I'm confused as to how fighter's guild comes into play. (especially since it's 20%)

I get that it's soul magic, but I was pointing out that there is no deadra specific gear. The only thing that hits daedra harder, currently, also affects WW and vamps as well. That is why the other person had the concern.

The only thing that will save this set is making it double ALL soul magic damage including the ultimate for which the ultimate should be toned down, slightly. The idea is the the explosion passive, the ultimate, and soul trap all could be useful for the trade of using a 5pc slot. Not sure it would make this an awesome set, but definitely save it from a waste of code.

Oooh, His concern was the Soul Magic - Soul Strike Ultimate -> (Soul Assault Morph), I don't think he knew that Oblivion's Foe only influenced Soul Trap.

Which I agree with. It shouldn't buff Soul Soul Strike, if it buffs the Ult (Soul Strike), it'll be cancer in PvP given the Ult cost.

Though it increasing the Soul Shatter Passive Damage could be interesting.

And the concern about it only influencing Deadra is also a good point. (and it'd be easier to reuse any checks they currently have rather than introducing a new one)

jkolb2030 · July 2017

Ahhh, okay I think i get where you're going with this... Yeah i was thinking you wanted it to buff all the skills in the soul tree, with the soul strike ultimate being one of them..

Even if players arent daedra, the 100% boost to that dmg would be pretty insane lol.

PS4_ZeColmeia · July 2017

My opinion is it should affect all soul magic skills but you nerf the ultimate by 25% so that the set brings it up to 150% of today's ultimate value. That trade in set for the ultimate buff is fair imho. Outside of this set soul shatter needs to go up by 50% and then this set affects it as well.

This would actually make soul magic and this set worthwhile.

Avran_Sylt · July 2017

@jkolb2030

Yeah, that'd be pretty darn OP (PvP). Not sure how it'd function in PvE (given that it is a channel so some damage is lost from weaving)

@PS4_ZeColmeia

I agree with you, but at the same time if it can be used against players in PvP, that means Soul Assault would become pretty darn unbalanced IMO. If it's reduced in some form to balance it in PvP, that just hurts its potential in PvE. If, however, it just becomes a +100% bonus to all Soul Magic Skills against Deadra (conditional), that might make it a more situational PvE set.

Sordidfairytale · July 2017

As it stands now, this is one entire 5 piece set, for one skill. I say we should encourage them to allow it to double dip.

Increases the damage and effects of your soul trap abilities by 100%.

In other words it doubles the damage and the additional targets affected or the return of resources if a target dies depending on the morph used.

PS4_ZeColmeia · July 2017

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@jkolb2030

Yeah, that'd be pretty darn OP (PvP). Not sure how it'd function in PvE (given that it is a channel so some damage is lost from weaving)

@PS4_ZeColmeia

I agree with you, but at the same time if it can be used against players in PvP, that means Soul Assault would become pretty darn unbalanced IMO. If it's reduced in some form to balance it in PvP, that just hurts its potential in PvE. If, however, it just becomes a +100% bonus to all Soul Magic Skills against Deadra (conditional), that might make it a more situational PvE set.

Well the reason it'd be unbalanced today is if you could wear something like julianos and spinner's AND have the increases I mentioned. However, to get those buffs you'd have to give up the bonuses from one of these sets (in the case of sacking spinner's you'd only be able to go 4 set and 3 weapon set, all jewlery). Inherently this drops the general performance of their main class skills for a focus on soul magic. Fundamentally this means they are sacrificing something else for this, which is what keeps it from becoming OP.

If you want to make that even a reasonable trade, you have to make this attractive for what amounts to a 2 skill and 1 passive improvement vs a set that improves ALL skills including soul magic. Julianos/Hundings/TBS/Pelinals/Krags/Armor Master/Orgnum's all have benefits like that. You have to do something similar here or it will just continue to be a waste of code, which is why it needs to have a much more dramatic affect and encompass everything. As it stands today, this is not even worth giving to some newb as a starter set. You out grow the usefulness of this set by level 6.

Avran_Sylt · July 2017

@PS4_ZeColmeia

As a stamblade, Soul Strike I (Unmorphed, just Unlocked)
Costs 100 Ult
Deals 43,020 Tooltip Damage over 2.5 Seconds (This is with CP)
33,255 Stamina
3,359 Weapon Damage
+ Minor Berserk

Equating to 17,208 DPS from a 100 Ult cost ability.

Increasing that in any form against a player will make it very easy to Stun + Ult them off if they're not that good of a player.

PS4_ZeColmeia · July 2017

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@PS4_ZeColmeia

As a stamblade, Soul Strike I (Unmorphed, just Unlocked)
Costs 100 Ult
Deals 43,020 Tooltip Damage over 2.5 Seconds (This is with CP)
33,255 Stamina
3,359 Weapon Damage
+ Minor Berserk

Equating to 17,208 DPS from a 100 Ult cost ability.

Increasing that in any form against a player will make it very easy to Stun + Ult them off if they're not that good of a player.

Good points, the conclusion is still the case now on live though.

In my head I think the trade off I'm saying is still hardly worth it other than for maybe tanky builds that want a damage ultimate. I, as a DPS, use flawless dawn breaker which is the same cost and it's not up enough for me to trade a DPS set for soul magic. It just wouldn't do enough to make it worth it.

Avran_Sylt · July 2017

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

As it stands now, this is one entire 5 piece set, for one skill. I say we should encourage them to allow it to double dip.

Increases the damage and effects of your soul trap abilities by 100%.

In other words it doubles the damage and the additional targets affected or the return of resources if a target dies depending on the morph used.

Interesting, making the skill more utility oriented rather than damage oriented. (probably make it better for solo content)

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@PS4_ZeColmeia

As a stamblade, Soul Strike I (Unmorphed, just Unlocked)
Costs 100 Ult
Deals 43,020 Tooltip Damage over 2.5 Seconds (This is with CP)
33,255 Stamina
3,359 Weapon Damage
+ Minor Berserk

Equating to 17,208 DPS from a 100 Ult cost ability.

Increasing that in any form against a player will make it very easy to Stun + Ult them off if they're not that good of a player.

Good points, the conclusion is still the case now on live though.

In my head I think the trade off I'm saying is still hardly worth it other than for maybe tanky builds that want a damage ultimate. I, as a DPS, use flawless dawn breaker which is the same cost and it's not up enough for me to trade a DPS set for soul magic. It just wouldn't do enough to make it worth it.

True, it wouldn't be up that often, but say you've got a player who runs an ult gen build in addition to this set, they could have that ult up pretty darned quickly, which is an edge case that I think would warrant attention.

All in all, I see this set as more of a damage dealing set against the denizens of Coldharbor (where the crafting station is located), and not generally a set to damage a player.