Schrodinger's Cloak: The act of being broken, but overpowered at the same time.
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kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let's just lay out some facts here Cloak last at max 2.9 seconds cost over 3k spammable for magic and not stamina. SURPRESSES not remove DoTs so if you DoT me and then I Cloak and you cast an AoE I take the AoE and the DoT tick. Shadowy will give me 100% which is 100% useless if you are behind a shield or have high crit resistance. Dark Cloak will let you take 8% less damage for 5 seconds both will proc Shadow Barrier passive 5k resistance buff for a few seconds unless you have ok heavy armor.
Cloak will not work yet still take the magic cost if you're in a ground AoE, AoE are ever present and very great at wasting your Cloak cast, you can't use the bonus of one morph on one of the main defenses used with the stun bonuses we get from Assassin we can CC longer then our defensive buffs last making them useless at the start of a fight.
If you can fight Cloak three years in a skill with a crazy short 2.9 seconds of up time, the power that has more counter to it then any other power or passive in the game by a mile then it's you not Cloak.
You have to per Cloak with 2-3 other powers to get it working.Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master
For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void3 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »They should just fix being pulled out for no reason but buff the counters to it. Currently only pods are good and skills like curse, but you can just claok again. Wish they didn't need radiant magelight 50% damage reduction form sneak.
Cloak really doesn't need more counters..
Not more, but better ones. Magelight and evil hunter suck, not every class has a skill like curse to pull them out and they can simply recloak right away. The passives that reduce detect distance also hits skills like magelighst so they got to be closer than 6m, so they can litterally hit you with mele without magelight spotting them. Only pods are good as a counter which is on a cooldown and a big hit for a lot of builds. They can remove pods that reveal imo if they just make the skills that should counter it better. I liked radiant magelight because it reduced the burst from stealth, but it got nerfed.
What about aoe abilities? They are every where and they pull nightblades out of stealth.
Use an AoE and they can go straight back into cloak. They can actually completely negate my burst combo whilst still rooted.
I see no problem with this a you can still heal, block, shield and otherwise defend when rooted. Cloak is the defensive power for Nightblades.thankyourat wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »They should just fix being pulled out for no reason but buff the counters to it. Currently only pods are good and skills like curse, but you can just claok again. Wish they didn't need radiant magelight 50% damage reduction form sneak.
Cloak really doesn't need more counters..
Not more, but better ones. Magelight and evil hunter suck, not every class has a skill like curse to pull them out and they can simply recloak right away. The passives that reduce detect distance also hits skills like magelighst so they got to be closer than 6m, so they can litterally hit you with mele without magelight spotting them. Only pods are good as a counter which is on a cooldown and a big hit for a lot of builds. They can remove pods that reveal imo if they just make the skills that should counter it better. I liked radiant magelight because it reduced the burst from stealth, but it got nerfed.
What about aoe abilities? They are every where and they pull nightblades out of stealth.
Use an AoE and they can go straight back into cloak. They can actually completely negate my burst combo whilst still rooted.
Again Cloak is the defending power for the class Nightblades are the only class without class shields. This is have they live. Your logic morales no sense when looking at other defensive powers. You can shield, heal and block after an attack and while rooted so why should Cloak not work the same way.
NBs can shield/heal/block too. All of these things still take damage. Not completely negate the every single effect by making them untargetable, be it damage, stuns or any adverse affect non aoe. Its stupid. Not to mention the classes that can cloak indefinitely.
It's not that we can't shield be you have to have a healing staff or use the nerfed Harness. Bone Shield is health based. You can't put a good shield on One hand and Shield as a Nightblade.
We can heal but we have a long list a weak heals and HoTs good as the HoT maybe it's not as good as a burst heal. We are more limited in weapons while also needing to kick off heal while at 100%.
I'm sure you never played a Nightblade we can't negate AoE damage and AoE damage is everywhere. You take it cloaked or not.
Shadow image. A teleport. Bit more than just a heal.
You might not be able to stop some aoes, but it makes you untargetable, making you immune to ST attack or targeted aoes, like you can't cast meteor on a cloaked NB even if you know where they are. It surpresses all dots, too, I'm not saying change these, or counter these. I am saying don't allow cloak to be a 1 button safe mode. They should have to avoid damage for a second then be able to cloak, rather than cloaking whilst inside my root or whilst my attack is pretty much inside them.
Like a reverse CC immunity, "spotted". When cloak is broken by a hostile act, you should be "spotted" until you avoid damage for 4 seconds. You cannot re-cloak until this fades. Something along those lines.
So as long as my opponent runs one dot I can cloak exactly one time during the whole duel? Maybe we should just *** up every other spammable "can't die hurr durr" ability in the game too. Maybe medium armor builds on other classes then nightblade would stand a chance then again.
Rather than crying, why not think of a slightly better idea, no? Here, let me do it for you: Spotted: When cloak is broken, can not recloak for 2 seconds after being CC'd/Taking non dot damage.
And on to your other point, permablock/heal DKs and templars can not completely disassociate from fights, they are slow, and take constant damage wearing away their resources. NBs can press cloak, and in the 3 seconds it is active, be far away from the fight, even with multiple people.
As for sorcs, yep, they are broken and everyone knows that they have NBs mobility, and tankiness of a DK.Edited by ak_pvp on July 11, 2017 1:54PMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »They should just fix being pulled out for no reason but buff the counters to it. Currently only pods are good and skills like curse, but you can just claok again. Wish they didn't need radiant magelight 50% damage reduction form sneak.
Cloak really doesn't need more counters..
Not more, but better ones. Magelight and evil hunter suck, not every class has a skill like curse to pull them out and they can simply recloak right away. The passives that reduce detect distance also hits skills like magelighst so they got to be closer than 6m, so they can litterally hit you with mele without magelight spotting them. Only pods are good as a counter which is on a cooldown and a big hit for a lot of builds. They can remove pods that reveal imo if they just make the skills that should counter it better. I liked radiant magelight because it reduced the burst from stealth, but it got nerfed.
What about aoe abilities? They are every where and they pull nightblades out of stealth.
Use an AoE and they can go straight back into cloak. They can actually completely negate my burst combo whilst still rooted.
I see no problem with this a you can still heal, block, shield and otherwise defend when rooted. Cloak is the defensive power for Nightblades.thankyourat wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »They should just fix being pulled out for no reason but buff the counters to it. Currently only pods are good and skills like curse, but you can just claok again. Wish they didn't need radiant magelight 50% damage reduction form sneak.
Cloak really doesn't need more counters..
Not more, but better ones. Magelight and evil hunter suck, not every class has a skill like curse to pull them out and they can simply recloak right away. The passives that reduce detect distance also hits skills like magelighst so they got to be closer than 6m, so they can litterally hit you with mele without magelight spotting them. Only pods are good as a counter which is on a cooldown and a big hit for a lot of builds. They can remove pods that reveal imo if they just make the skills that should counter it better. I liked radiant magelight because it reduced the burst from stealth, but it got nerfed.
What about aoe abilities? They are every where and they pull nightblades out of stealth.
Use an AoE and they can go straight back into cloak. They can actually completely negate my burst combo whilst still rooted.
Again Cloak is the defending power for the class Nightblades are the only class without class shields. This is have they live. Your logic morales no sense when looking at other defensive powers. You can shield, heal and block after an attack and while rooted so why should Cloak not work the same way.
NBs can shield/heal/block too. All of these things still take damage. Not completely negate the every single effect by making them untargetable, be it damage, stuns or any adverse affect non aoe. Its stupid. Not to mention the classes that can cloak indefinitely.
It's not that we can't shield be you have to have a healing staff or use the nerfed Harness. Bone Shield is health based. You can't put a good shield on One hand and Shield as a Nightblade.
We can heal but we have a long list a weak heals and HoTs good as the HoT maybe it's not as good as a burst heal. We are more limited in weapons while also needing to kick off heal while at 100%.
I'm sure you never played a Nightblade we can't negate AoE damage and AoE damage is everywhere. You take it cloaked or not.
Shadow image. A teleport. Bit more than just a heal.
You might not be able to stop some aoes, but it makes you untargetable, making you immune to ST attack or targeted aoes, like you can't cast meteor on a cloaked NB even if you know where they are. It surpresses all dots, too, I'm not saying change these, or counter these. I am saying don't allow cloak to be a 1 button safe mode. They should have to avoid damage for a second then be able to cloak, rather than cloaking whilst inside my root or whilst my attack is pretty much inside them.
Like a reverse CC immunity, "spotted". When cloak is broken by a hostile act, you should be "spotted" until you avoid damage for 4 seconds. You cannot re-cloak until this fades. Something along those lines.
So as long as my opponent runs one dot I can cloak exactly one time during the whole duel? Maybe we should just *** up every other spammable "can't die hurr durr" ability in the game too. Maybe medium armor builds on other classes then nightblade would stand a chance then again.
Rather than crying, why not think of a slightly better idea, no? Here, let me do it for you: Spotted: When cloak is broken, can not recloak for 2 seconds after being CC'd/Taking non dot damage.
And on to your other point, permablock/heal DKs and templars can not completely disassociate from fights, they are slow, and take constant damage wearing away their resources. NBs can press cloak, and in the 3 seconds it is active, be far away from the fight, even with multiple people.
As for sorcs, yep, they are broken and everyone knows that they have NBs mobility, and tankiness of a DK.
If you want spotted I was Premature and Shattered.
Premature: When a damage shield is refreshed before it expires or is broken you next shield is 50% weaker.
Shattered: Once a damage shield is broken no shield of any type can be casted for 2 seconds.Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master
For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void2 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »They should just fix being pulled out for no reason but buff the counters to it. Currently only pods are good and skills like curse, but you can just claok again. Wish they didn't need radiant magelight 50% damage reduction form sneak.
Cloak really doesn't need more counters..
Not more, but better ones. Magelight and evil hunter suck, not every class has a skill like curse to pull them out and they can simply recloak right away. The passives that reduce detect distance also hits skills like magelighst so they got to be closer than 6m, so they can litterally hit you with mele without magelight spotting them. Only pods are good as a counter which is on a cooldown and a big hit for a lot of builds. They can remove pods that reveal imo if they just make the skills that should counter it better. I liked radiant magelight because it reduced the burst from stealth, but it got nerfed.
What about aoe abilities? They are every where and they pull nightblades out of stealth.
Use an AoE and they can go straight back into cloak. They can actually completely negate my burst combo whilst still rooted.
I see no problem with this a you can still heal, block, shield and otherwise defend when rooted. Cloak is the defensive power for Nightblades.thankyourat wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »They should just fix being pulled out for no reason but buff the counters to it. Currently only pods are good and skills like curse, but you can just claok again. Wish they didn't need radiant magelight 50% damage reduction form sneak.
Cloak really doesn't need more counters..
Not more, but better ones. Magelight and evil hunter suck, not every class has a skill like curse to pull them out and they can simply recloak right away. The passives that reduce detect distance also hits skills like magelighst so they got to be closer than 6m, so they can litterally hit you with mele without magelight spotting them. Only pods are good as a counter which is on a cooldown and a big hit for a lot of builds. They can remove pods that reveal imo if they just make the skills that should counter it better. I liked radiant magelight because it reduced the burst from stealth, but it got nerfed.
What about aoe abilities? They are every where and they pull nightblades out of stealth.
Use an AoE and they can go straight back into cloak. They can actually completely negate my burst combo whilst still rooted.
Again Cloak is the defending power for the class Nightblades are the only class without class shields. This is have they live. Your logic morales no sense when looking at other defensive powers. You can shield, heal and block after an attack and while rooted so why should Cloak not work the same way.
NBs can shield/heal/block too. All of these things still take damage. Not completely negate the every single effect by making them untargetable, be it damage, stuns or any adverse affect non aoe. Its stupid. Not to mention the classes that can cloak indefinitely.
It's not that we can't shield be you have to have a healing staff or use the nerfed Harness. Bone Shield is health based. You can't put a good shield on One hand and Shield as a Nightblade.
We can heal but we have a long list a weak heals and HoTs good as the HoT maybe it's not as good as a burst heal. We are more limited in weapons while also needing to kick off heal while at 100%.
I'm sure you never played a Nightblade we can't negate AoE damage and AoE damage is everywhere. You take it cloaked or not.
Shadow image. A teleport. Bit more than just a heal.
You might not be able to stop some aoes, but it makes you untargetable, making you immune to ST attack or targeted aoes, like you can't cast meteor on a cloaked NB even if you know where they are. It surpresses all dots, too, I'm not saying change these, or counter these. I am saying don't allow cloak to be a 1 button safe mode. They should have to avoid damage for a second then be able to cloak, rather than cloaking whilst inside my root or whilst my attack is pretty much inside them.
Like a reverse CC immunity, "spotted". When cloak is broken by a hostile act, you should be "spotted" until you avoid damage for 4 seconds. You cannot re-cloak until this fades. Something along those lines.
So as long as my opponent runs one dot I can cloak exactly one time during the whole duel? Maybe we should just *** up every other spammable "can't die hurr durr" ability in the game too. Maybe medium armor builds on other classes then nightblade would stand a chance then again.
Rather than crying, why not think of a slightly better idea, no? Here, let me do it for you: Spotted: When cloak is broken, can not recloak for 2 seconds after being CC'd/Taking non dot damage.
And on to your other point, permablock/heal DKs and templars can not completely disassociate from fights, they are slow, and take constant damage wearing away their resources. NBs can press cloak, and in the 3 seconds it is active, be far away from the fight, even with multiple people.
As for sorcs, yep, they are broken and everyone knows that they have NBs mobility, and tankiness of a DK.
Dks don't need to leave fights they are built to sustain in fights and be tanky, as for Templars i don't know what they are suppose to do, just heal i guess lol. There are some dk builds who my magblade completely shut down with cloak they are mainly 2hand and bow builds though with no aoe. If you are a sword and board dk using heroic slash and a aoe there is now wait a nightblade canget away from you without either shadow image or eternal hut. It flat out 1v1 combat without cloak they nightblade class would be very weak to the dk class or already kind of Is1 -
Glamdring✭✭✭✭✭So many casual scrubs in this thread, cloak has tons of counter, any good player knows that. cloak works ok now but still many things that shouldnt break it.3
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »They should just fix being pulled out for no reason but buff the counters to it. Currently only pods are good and skills like curse, but you can just claok again. Wish they didn't need radiant magelight 50% damage reduction form sneak.
Cloak really doesn't need more counters..
Not more, but better ones. Magelight and evil hunter suck, not every class has a skill like curse to pull them out and they can simply recloak right away. The passives that reduce detect distance also hits skills like magelighst so they got to be closer than 6m, so they can litterally hit you with mele without magelight spotting them. Only pods are good as a counter which is on a cooldown and a big hit for a lot of builds. They can remove pods that reveal imo if they just make the skills that should counter it better. I liked radiant magelight because it reduced the burst from stealth, but it got nerfed.
What about aoe abilities? They are every where and they pull nightblades out of stealth.
Use an AoE and they can go straight back into cloak. They can actually completely negate my burst combo whilst still rooted.
I see no problem with this a you can still heal, block, shield and otherwise defend when rooted. Cloak is the defensive power for Nightblades.thankyourat wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »They should just fix being pulled out for no reason but buff the counters to it. Currently only pods are good and skills like curse, but you can just claok again. Wish they didn't need radiant magelight 50% damage reduction form sneak.
Cloak really doesn't need more counters..
Not more, but better ones. Magelight and evil hunter suck, not every class has a skill like curse to pull them out and they can simply recloak right away. The passives that reduce detect distance also hits skills like magelighst so they got to be closer than 6m, so they can litterally hit you with mele without magelight spotting them. Only pods are good as a counter which is on a cooldown and a big hit for a lot of builds. They can remove pods that reveal imo if they just make the skills that should counter it better. I liked radiant magelight because it reduced the burst from stealth, but it got nerfed.
What about aoe abilities? They are every where and they pull nightblades out of stealth.
Use an AoE and they can go straight back into cloak. They can actually completely negate my burst combo whilst still rooted.
Again Cloak is the defending power for the class Nightblades are the only class without class shields. This is have they live. Your logic morales no sense when looking at other defensive powers. You can shield, heal and block after an attack and while rooted so why should Cloak not work the same way.
NBs can shield/heal/block too. All of these things still take damage. Not completely negate the every single effect by making them untargetable, be it damage, stuns or any adverse affect non aoe. Its stupid. Not to mention the classes that can cloak indefinitely.
It's not that we can't shield be you have to have a healing staff or use the nerfed Harness. Bone Shield is health based. You can't put a good shield on One hand and Shield as a Nightblade.
We can heal but we have a long list a weak heals and HoTs good as the HoT maybe it's not as good as a burst heal. We are more limited in weapons while also needing to kick off heal while at 100%.
I'm sure you never played a Nightblade we can't negate AoE damage and AoE damage is everywhere. You take it cloaked or not.
Shadow image. A teleport. Bit more than just a heal.
You might not be able to stop some aoes, but it makes you untargetable, making you immune to ST attack or targeted aoes, like you can't cast meteor on a cloaked NB even if you know where they are. It surpresses all dots, too, I'm not saying change these, or counter these. I am saying don't allow cloak to be a 1 button safe mode. They should have to avoid damage for a second then be able to cloak, rather than cloaking whilst inside my root or whilst my attack is pretty much inside them.
Like a reverse CC immunity, "spotted". When cloak is broken by a hostile act, you should be "spotted" until you avoid damage for 4 seconds. You cannot re-cloak until this fades. Something along those lines.
So as long as my opponent runs one dot I can cloak exactly one time during the whole duel? Maybe we should just *** up every other spammable "can't die hurr durr" ability in the game too. Maybe medium armor builds on other classes then nightblade would stand a chance then again.
Rather than crying, why not think of a slightly better idea, no? Here, let me do it for you: Spotted: When cloak is broken, can not recloak for 2 seconds after being CC'd/Taking non dot damage.
And on to your other point, permablock/heal DKs and templars can not completely disassociate from fights, they are slow, and take constant damage wearing away their resources. NBs can press cloak, and in the 3 seconds it is active, be far away from the fight, even with multiple people.
As for sorcs, yep, they are broken and everyone knows that they have NBs mobility, and tankiness of a DK.
If you want spotted I was Premature and Shattered.
Premature: When a damage shield is refreshed before it expires or is broken you next shield is 50% weaker.
Shattered: Once a damage shield is broken no shield of any type can be casted for 2 seconds.
Or something like a fatigue to increase sorcs getaway skill costs by 50% if they use it in repeated fashion... oh wait...0 -
Riggsy✭✭✭✭So many casual scrubs in this thread, cloak has tons of counter, any good player knows that. cloak works ok now but still many things that shouldnt break it.
Stop peddling this nonsense. They changed roll dodge and bolt escape now its time for cloak to get the same treatment, otherwise revert magelight to what it once was.MMAGA - We Made Medium Armor Great AgainEvasion: Casting this ability and its morphs now requires that you wear 5 pieces of Medium Armor.
Woe Biden - Mule
Donald Thump - Mule
M'aiq Pence - Mule0 -
davey1107✭✭✭✭✭
✭Every class has a specialization that requires specific skills and abilities to counter. The truth is that those of you complaining about cloak can beat it....you just don't want to take up bar space to do it because you want to save those slots for your core skills.
That's fine, but don't bee-atch and whine when you can't kill the NBs. They aren't OP, you just aren't geared to be a NB hunter. Just accept that builds aren't meant to be jack-of-all-trades and you'll fall short against certain classes.
My stamblade hits HARD. But his nemesis defender is a magsorc. Granted, I think it's pretty accepted that they're OP, but even if they were fixed they'd still be using powerful magic wards. I could equip my stamblade to get through these...there are plenty of counters...but I get more mileage with other abilities, so when I encounter a sorc shield spammer I ignore them and move on to another kill.
Well...that's not entirely honest. I usually don't ignore them. I snipe them, hide, mark them, and generally annoy and infuriate them. Because mag sorcs kinda deserve it, lol.3 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭So many casual scrubs in this thread, cloak has tons of counter, any good player knows that. cloak works ok now but still many things that shouldnt break it.
I see lots of comments by people who obviously know nothing about cloak.
My fav is the assertion that you are completely invulnerable while cloaked!!! LOL! A stiff fart, and any AOE will break cloak instantly. The counters are too numerous to mention (but obviously those complaining are too lazy to bar the skills, or take the appropriate protections.
How is anyone even complaining of cloak in the current state of SORC?
I don't usually do this, but L2P.
2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭QuebraRegra wrote: »So many casual scrubs in this thread, cloak has tons of counter, any good player knows that. cloak works ok now but still many things that shouldnt break it.
I see lots of comments by people who obviously know nothing about cloak.
My fav is the assertion that you are completely invulnerable while cloaked!!! LOL! A stiff fart, and any AOE will break cloak instantly. The counters are too numerous to mention (but obviously those complaining are too lazy to bar the skills, or take the appropriate protections.
How is anyone even complaining of cloak in the current state of SORC?
I don't usually do this, but L2P.
Uh, that's my favourite. Hide one BS behind another.0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭QuebraRegra wrote: »So many casual scrubs in this thread, cloak has tons of counter, any good player knows that. cloak works ok now but still many things that shouldnt break it.
I see lots of comments by people who obviously know nothing about cloak.
My fav is the assertion that you are completely invulnerable while cloaked!!! LOL! A stiff fart, and any AOE will break cloak instantly. The counters are too numerous to mention (but obviously those complaining are too lazy to bar the skills, or take the appropriate protections.
How is anyone even complaining of cloak in the current state of SORC?
I don't usually do this, but L2P.
No, you get pulled out, and can go straight back in, back to being untargettable. Shutting down any non aoe damage even whilst rooted or an attack is going into you. Fair? All I ask when an NB takes damage non dot, or a root, they cannot cloak for a second. This means they cannot negate damage combos as completely as they can now. This means they need to re asses and avoid damage to go back to sneaking, a roll, or a TP etc. Not just 1buttonwonder and shut down single darget damage combos instantly.
About being pulled out by everything, that is also an issue. Ground based stationary aoes shouldn't reveal them, nor the buggy dots with warden sometimes revealing them. Less, but more effective counters.
Also, if you can't kill a sorc on an NB, then L2P. Highest burst damage, fear out of mines, good CC, and can use safety blanket to negate most of their bursts, save from curse.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »QuebraRegra wrote: »So many casual scrubs in this thread, cloak has tons of counter, any good player knows that. cloak works ok now but still many things that shouldnt break it.
I see lots of comments by people who obviously know nothing about cloak.
My fav is the assertion that you are completely invulnerable while cloaked!!! LOL! A stiff fart, and any AOE will break cloak instantly. The counters are too numerous to mention (but obviously those complaining are too lazy to bar the skills, or take the appropriate protections.
How is anyone even complaining of cloak in the current state of SORC?
I don't usually do this, but L2P.
Uh, that's my favourite. Hide one BS behind another.
So by your comment Im going to assume you are a meta hopper. Most of the forum knows sorcs are imbalanced, having NB tier burst+mobility with tankiness that rivals a DK. But we won't get *** out of that. And you are seemingly denying the issue with cloak being the strongest get away tool as it can be spammed to completely dissociate from fights, even after being broken.
Another comment of yours in a different thread says that you want a skoria nerf, a proc set with a low proc chance that relies on dots that can often be purged. As such, your comment is also ***.Edited by ak_pvp on July 12, 2017 11:56PMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭QuebraRegra wrote: »So many casual scrubs in this thread, cloak has tons of counter, any good player knows that. cloak works ok now but still many things that shouldnt break it.
I see lots of comments by people who obviously know nothing about cloak.
My fav is the assertion that you are completely invulnerable while cloaked!!! LOL! A stiff fart, and any AOE will break cloak instantly. The counters are too numerous to mention (but obviously those complaining are too lazy to bar the skills, or take the appropriate protections.
How is anyone even complaining of cloak in the current state of SORC?
I don't usually do this, but L2P.
No, you get pulled out, and can go straight back in, back to being untargettable. Shutting down any non aoe damage even whilst rooted or an attack is going into you. Fair? All I ask when an NB takes damage non dot, or a root, they cannot cloak for a second. This means they cannot negate damage combos as completely as they can now. This means they need to re asses and avoid damage to go back to sneaking, a roll, or a TP etc. Not just 1buttonwonder and shut down single darget damage combos instantly.
About being pulled out by everything, that is also an issue. Ground based stationary aoes shouldn't reveal them, nor the buggy dots with warden sometimes revealing them. Less, but more effective counters.
Also, if you can't kill a sorc on an NB, then L2P. Highest burst damage, fear out of mines, good CC, and can use safety blanket to negate most of their bursts, save from curse.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »QuebraRegra wrote: »So many casual scrubs in this thread, cloak has tons of counter, any good player knows that. cloak works ok now but still many things that shouldnt break it.
I see lots of comments by people who obviously know nothing about cloak.
My fav is the assertion that you are completely invulnerable while cloaked!!! LOL! A stiff fart, and any AOE will break cloak instantly. The counters are too numerous to mention (but obviously those complaining are too lazy to bar the skills, or take the appropriate protections.
How is anyone even complaining of cloak in the current state of SORC?
I don't usually do this, but L2P.
Uh, that's my favourite. Hide one BS behind another.
So by your comment Im going to assume you are a meta hopper. Most of the forum knows sorcs are imbalanced, having NB tier burst+mobility with tankiness that rivals a DK. But we won't get *** out of that. And you are seemingly denying the issue with cloak being the strongest get away tool as it can be spammed to completely dissociate from fights, even after being broken.
Another comment of yours in a different thread says that you want a skoria nerf, a proc set with a low proc chance that relies on dots that can often be purged. As such, your comment is also ***.
Before throwing around such harsh answers you may need some reading comprehension.
QuebraRegra said something like "why do you complain about cloak when sorcs are overpowered?"
My answer was to say that both are too strong and should be complained about. What's your issue with that? Just because one thing is unbalanced (here: sorcs) doesn't mean we should overlook anything else (cloak).
As for your personal comment on me: Nope, I'm not a metahopper. My PvP main is a stamsorc since I really started to play pvp. No shields, no cloak. But yes, I've got toons on the other 4 classes. Like everyone who invests a lot of time into this game.
As for skoria: It was the PTS Patch Notes and I asked "No change to skoria?" Don't know where the part is that forces you to interpret this as a nerf-request.
But while we're add it, I run a DoT build on the above mentioned sSorc and Skoria basically procs on cooldown. Dunmer Bonus to fire dmg and undodgeable skoria meteor with a 11k tooltip with no visual cue - in anything but duels that sound you're hearing could likely be the next guys doom. Selene got both, visual and audio warnings (also shorter range and is dodgeable) coming next Patch. So maybe make it a bit more obvious who it will hit. Not even I, the guy who procs that stuff, knows who it will hit if I got DoTs on multiple guys.
Ever thought about that?
No you don't. Because you're judging before even understanding what was written or sparing a thought about how it could be intended.
Your whole comment to me makes you look pretty presumptuous.
P.S. If you still don't get it, I, too, think that cloak should be threated like e.g. Sorcs escape skill - with a fatigue that increases the cost if you use it in repeated fashion. How steep that increase should be is up for discussion.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on July 13, 2017 9:14AM3 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭So many casual scrubs in this thread, cloak has tons of counter, any good player knows that. cloak works ok now but still many things that shouldnt break it.
Stop peddling this nonsense. They changed roll dodge and bolt escape now its time for cloak to get the same treatment, otherwise revert magelight to what it once was.
This makes no sense we have no way to stop a Roll outside of a hard CC and that stops everything so that not having real counters needed a change.
Sorcerers were literally using Bolt Escape to travel around. They didn't even need a horse three years many will not remember but, in the beginning we had group, guild and zone chat reminders to feed your horse. Back when they didn't share stats so you had to choose which horse you wanted.
Before you could buy rider skills you had to wait 6 months to max out a horse. Many people walked/ran between keeps if the next two in front were flagged you had a long run to get to the keep. The gankers were ever present back when you had to really think about it traveling solo in a war zone was a smart move.
This of course never happened for Sorc as they just had Seducer and Warlock and just Bolted where ever they needed to go and would put run the fastest horses.
Cloak does not work like Rolling or Bolting. Only a hard CC which stops everything stops rolls and same for Bolting. If they added a cost increase on Cloak then the counters would have to be cut massively cause if it cost 25/33/50% more when recasting then it needs to work every time. A cost increase when any AoE will pop you out forcing a recloak, when you can take a potion and literally 100% negate the effects of cloak and powers that take you out of cloak Evil Hunter and Magelight plus ultimately that turn off Cloak for a few seconds Soul Assault all need to be removed or nerfed in the ground if you have a cost increase.
Fact is Cloak is easy to counter with just normal AoEs that you can't kill a Nightblade or you want the fight to be like fighting every other class is just lazy. I could understand if Cloak had little to no counters but it's the most countered power this is not even "Learn to Play" it's just "Play".Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »So many casual scrubs in this thread, cloak has tons of counter, any good player knows that. cloak works ok now but still many things that shouldnt break it.
Stop peddling this nonsense. They changed roll dodge and bolt escape now its time for cloak to get the same treatment, otherwise revert magelight to what it once was.
This makes no sense we have no way to stop a Roll outside of a hard CC and that stops everything so that not having real counters needed a change.
Sorcerers were literally using Bolt Escape to travel around. They didn't even need a horse three years many will not remember but, in the beginning we had group, guild and zone chat reminders to feed your horse. Back when they didn't share stats so you had to choose which horse you wanted.
Before you could buy rider skills you had to wait 6 months to max out a horse. Many people walked/ran between keeps if the next two in front were flagged you had a long run to get to the keep. The gankers were ever present back when you had to really think about it traveling solo in a war zone was a smart move.
This of course never happened for Sorc as they just had Seducer and Warlock and just Bolted where ever they needed to go and would put run the fastest horses.
Cloak does not work like Rolling or Bolting. Only a hard CC which stops everything stops rolls and same for Bolting. If they added a cost increase on Cloak then the counters would have to be cut massively cause if it cost 25/33/50% more when recasting then it needs to work every time. A cost increase when any AoE will pop you out forcing a recloak, when you can take a potion and literally 100% negate the effects of cloak and powers that take you out of cloak Evil Hunter and Magelight plus ultimately that turn off Cloak for a few seconds Soul Assault all need to be removed or nerfed in the ground if you have a cost increase.
Fact is Cloak is easy to counter with just normal AoEs that you can't kill a Nightblade or you want the fight to be like fighting every other class is just lazy. I could understand if Cloak had little to no counters but it's the most countered power this is not even "Learn to Play" it's just "Play".
1) Comparison to dodgeroll
This is wrong.
Dodgeroll is available for everyone. Some can use it more often than others but everyone can. While cloak is limited to Nightblades. Even there is a difference in how often you can cloak, depending on your main resource.
Also, there are so many skills that go through dodge roll. Every channel including lightning & resto heavy attacks, dive, every AoE, Skoria, Meteor, etc. The counters are plenty.
2) Streak as travelling method
You argue about what happened three years ago. Now it's far easier to tune your mounts. Characterbound stats and crown lessons come to mind. You see, while travelling might was a reason to put a fatigue on streak then, it shouldn't be one now. Nobody runs from keep to keep anymore. But the fatigue is still there.
3) Mechanic comparison
Dodge eludes you from many skills, right. So does cloak. Things go through dodge, things go through cloak. Difference is that dodge doesn't have the ability withdraw you completely from combat and makes it impossible to target you, cloak on the other hand does.
Streak doesn't safe you from anything. Every projectile will still hit you. Every gap closer renders your streak useless. Bolt of lIghtning doesn't swallowes gap closers, only projectiles. People can still target you.
See, there are counters to everything. For dodge you don't need to slot a fancy potion or waste a skill slot, you just use your channel or gap closer. One or the other are on most builds.
Streak CAN get you away. But just spam your ranged abilites or gap closers and you're good.
Cloak is broken by AoEs, potions, magelight.
Everything is counterable, everything eludes you from some attacks. Difference is only two of them have a fatigue.
So if you want to tell people to simply L2P when they can't counter cloak, might you need to L2P yourself if you're crazy enough to cloak in the middle of AoEs. A bit of positioning and situational awareness should be necessary for anything.
And please don't revert to "it's a NB's only defense". It's not. NB can dodge, shield, block, heal etc. just like everyone else. Or would you say "Bolt of Lightning is the only defense a stam Sorc has"?
Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on July 13, 2017 11:51AM1 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »QuebraRegra wrote: »So many casual scrubs in this thread, cloak has tons of counter, any good player knows that. cloak works ok now but still many things that shouldnt break it.
I see lots of comments by people who obviously know nothing about cloak.
My fav is the assertion that you are completely invulnerable while cloaked!!! LOL! A stiff fart, and any AOE will break cloak instantly. The counters are too numerous to mention (but obviously those complaining are too lazy to bar the skills, or take the appropriate protections.
How is anyone even complaining of cloak in the current state of SORC?
I don't usually do this, but L2P.
No, you get pulled out, and can go straight back in, back to being untargettable. Shutting down any non aoe damage even whilst rooted or an attack is going into you. Fair? All I ask when an NB takes damage non dot, or a root, they cannot cloak for a second. This means they cannot negate damage combos as completely as they can now. This means they need to re asses and avoid damage to go back to sneaking, a roll, or a TP etc. Not just 1buttonwonder and shut down single darget damage combos instantly.
About being pulled out by everything, that is also an issue. Ground based stationary aoes shouldn't reveal them, nor the buggy dots with warden sometimes revealing them. Less, but more effective counters.
Also, if you can't kill a sorc on an NB, then L2P. Highest burst damage, fear out of mines, good CC, and can use safety blanket to negate most of their bursts, save from curse.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »QuebraRegra wrote: »So many casual scrubs in this thread, cloak has tons of counter, any good player knows that. cloak works ok now but still many things that shouldnt break it.
I see lots of comments by people who obviously know nothing about cloak.
My fav is the assertion that you are completely invulnerable while cloaked!!! LOL! A stiff fart, and any AOE will break cloak instantly. The counters are too numerous to mention (but obviously those complaining are too lazy to bar the skills, or take the appropriate protections.
How is anyone even complaining of cloak in the current state of SORC?
I don't usually do this, but L2P.
Uh, that's my favourite. Hide one BS behind another.
So by your comment Im going to assume you are a meta hopper. Most of the forum knows sorcs are imbalanced, having NB tier burst+mobility with tankiness that rivals a DK. But we won't get *** out of that. And you are seemingly denying the issue with cloak being the strongest get away tool as it can be spammed to completely dissociate from fights, even after being broken.
Another comment of yours in a different thread says that you want a skoria nerf, a proc set with a low proc chance that relies on dots that can often be purged. As such, your comment is also ***.
Before throwing around such harsh answers you may need some reading comprehension.
QuebraRegra said something like "why do you complain about cloak when sorcs are overpowered?"
My answer was to say that both are too strong and should be complained about. What's your issue with that? Just because one thing is unbalanced (here: sorcs) doesn't mean we should overlook anything else (cloak).
As for your personal comment on me: Nope, I'm not a metahopper. My PvP main is a stamsorc since I really started to play pvp. No shields, no cloak. But yes, I've got toons on the other 4 classes. Like everyone who invests a lot of time into this game.
As for skoria: It was the PTS Patch Notes and I asked "No change to skoria?" Don't know where the part is that forces you to interpret this as a nerf-request.
But while we're add it, I run a DoT build on the above mentioned sSorc and Skoria basically procs on cooldown. Dunmer Bonus to fire dmg and undodgeable skoria meteor with a 11k tooltip with no visual cue - in anything but duels that sound you're hearing could likely be the next guys doom. Selene got both, visual and audio warnings (also shorter range and is dodgeable) coming next Patch. So maybe make it a bit more obvious who it will hit. Not even I, the guy who procs that stuff, knows who it will hit if I got DoTs on multiple guys.
Ever thought about that?
No you don't. Because you're judging before even understanding what was written or sparing a thought about how it could be intended.
Your whole comment to me makes you look pretty presumptuous.
P.S. If you still don't get it, I, too, think that cloak should be threated like e.g. Sorcs escape skill - with a fatigue that increases the cost if you use it in repeated fashion. How steep that increase should be is up for discussion.
Ay, I'll admit when I am wrong and I came on a little hard. I thought you were saying that sorcs/cloak being OP is ***. Sorry man.
As for skoria, its health passive, and ability to be cloaked, along with generally less damage that things like viper did vs proc rate means its decently balanced, and its not instant either, I've had NBs cloak my skoria from the sound.Edited by ak_pvp on July 13, 2017 2:56PMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
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Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »P.S. If you still don't get it, I, too, think that cloak should be threated like e.g. Sorcs escape skill - with a fatigue that increases the cost if you use it in repeated fashion. How steep that increase should be is up for discussion.
cloak also should have this cost increase only if it will be more viable to use and not that broken how we have now.
few patches ago I also thought to make cloak with fatigue because magblades was very annyoing but not now, they are to weak and most of the magblades jsut dont use cloak because its not worth on many these builds with damage shied
only stamblade is using much more this clak as utility and main defense with rolldodge and without workink cloak stamblade is the most *** class
if you want to add fatifue to cloak then for 1st bring back dots purge because spam cloak to supress hard dots like siege etc wont be good idea with not to mention to buff some in other way...maybe give minimum 1sec invulnerability to literally everything after casted cloak to be worth used trough fatigue while someone have det pet which you you dont see whiel it working on you etc1 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Chilly-McFreeze You have to remember when they added the fatigue to Dodge roll and Streak they didn't have the counters we have today.For example only AOE went through dodge.Gap closer didn't always land and had bad tracking,that's why the added the God awful snare that immobilized you if to many people gap close you at the same time.
Cloak has countless counters unlike Dodge roll and streak at the time they were giving the cost increase2 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »They should just fix being pulled out for no reason but buff the counters to it. Currently only pods are good and skills like curse, but you can just claok again. Wish they didn't need radiant magelight 50% damage reduction form sneak.
Cloak really doesn't need more counters..
Not more, but better ones. Magelight and evil hunter suck, not every class has a skill like curse to pull them out and they can simply recloak right away. The passives that reduce detect distance also hits skills like magelighst so they got to be closer than 6m, so they can litterally hit you with mele without magelight spotting them. Only pods are good as a counter which is on a cooldown and a big hit for a lot of builds. They can remove pods that reveal imo if they just make the skills that should counter it better. I liked radiant magelight because it reduced the burst from stealth, but it got nerfed.
What about aoe abilities? They are every where and they pull nightblades out of stealth.
Use an AoE and they can go straight back into cloak. They can actually completely negate my burst combo whilst still rooted.
I see no problem with this a you can still heal, block, shield and otherwise defend when rooted. Cloak is the defensive power for Nightblades.thankyourat wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »They should just fix being pulled out for no reason but buff the counters to it. Currently only pods are good and skills like curse, but you can just claok again. Wish they didn't need radiant magelight 50% damage reduction form sneak.
Cloak really doesn't need more counters..
Not more, but better ones. Magelight and evil hunter suck, not every class has a skill like curse to pull them out and they can simply recloak right away. The passives that reduce detect distance also hits skills like magelighst so they got to be closer than 6m, so they can litterally hit you with mele without magelight spotting them. Only pods are good as a counter which is on a cooldown and a big hit for a lot of builds. They can remove pods that reveal imo if they just make the skills that should counter it better. I liked radiant magelight because it reduced the burst from stealth, but it got nerfed.
What about aoe abilities? They are every where and they pull nightblades out of stealth.
Use an AoE and they can go straight back into cloak. They can actually completely negate my burst combo whilst still rooted.
Again Cloak is the defending power for the class Nightblades are the only class without class shields. This is have they live. Your logic morales no sense when looking at other defensive powers. You can shield, heal and block after an attack and while rooted so why should Cloak not work the same way.
NBs can shield/heal/block too. All of these things still take damage. Not completely negate the every single effect by making them untargetable, be it damage, stuns or any adverse affect non aoe. Its stupid. Not to mention the classes that can cloak indefinitely.
It's not that we can't shield be you have to have a healing staff or use the nerfed Harness. Bone Shield is health based. You can't put a good shield on One hand and Shield as a Nightblade.
We can heal but we have a long list a weak heals and HoTs good as the HoT maybe it's not as good as a burst heal. We are more limited in weapons while also needing to kick off heal while at 100%.
I'm sure you never played a Nightblade we can't negate AoE damage and AoE damage is everywhere. You take it cloaked or not.
Shadow image. A teleport. Bit more than just a heal.
You might not be able to stop some aoes, but it makes you untargetable, making you immune to ST attack or targeted aoes, like you can't cast meteor on a cloaked NB even if you know where they are. It surpresses all dots, too, I'm not saying change these, or counter these. I am saying don't allow cloak to be a 1 button safe mode. They should have to avoid damage for a second then be able to cloak, rather than cloaking whilst inside my root or whilst my attack is pretty much inside them.
Like a reverse CC immunity, "spotted". When cloak is broken by a hostile act, you should be "spotted" until you avoid damage for 4 seconds. You cannot re-cloak until this fades. Something along those lines.
So as long as my opponent runs one dot I can cloak exactly one time during the whole duel? Maybe we should just *** up every other spammable "can't die hurr durr" ability in the game too. Maybe medium armor builds on other classes then nightblade would stand a chance then again.
You sound triggered.
What other skills are you referring to, that let you mitigate 100% damage and become untargetable in broad daylight?
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