BIS is not what YOU want, but what the trending youtuber in the moment said it's 'best in slot'.

drake88131 wrote: »

I just want to be able to play my favorite game without spending useless hours trying to get BiS gear.

I've done that since release.

Wnat to know my secret?

I'm not fixated on BiS which is little more than 1% better than stuff that's far more readily available .. 1% is not significant.

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

The problem with this whole "I don't care if noobs can get BiS gear with their wallets" mentality is that, there are a LOT of players who feel strongly opposed to this. While those sentiments might not be expressed here, there are tons of "old school" MMO players actually playing the game who measure the value of a game by their accomplishments within it. The symbol of those accomplishments is this gear, it acts like trophies for them.

To a degree, I agree with this sentiment. After all, if you can just throw money at a trader kiosk and get the best items in the game, what's even the point of playing anymore? For the challenge? I guess, but if my reward for all my effort is what I already have, it's a huge motivation killer. It's essentially the destruction of the carrot and stick principle of gaming. At that point, it becomes more like an economic simulator game than an MMO.

The proposal here, to them, is the equivalent of making trophies that they won by competing in X competition also for sale at the local gift shop. I can guarantee you that a sizeable number of players would quit outright if all gear, including trial sets, were suddenly made BoE.

As I said VMA multiple times...on a stamblade...on Xbox one...where I would sometimes suddenly teleport to my death....all y'all old school MMO people that want to stick your nose in the air at everyone else need to relax. It's a game bro not a job. Also what part of my post indicated that I care what us "elite" players think or feel. I'm a man of the people friend. Remember they chopped off Marie Antoinettes head for saying that we should let them eat cake!

Also nobody is saying it should be from an actual wallet. Just the pretend make believe gold pouch. You know...that fake thing that you have in game With not real gold on it? Sure some jerks or scum may go for real money but that's not a problem that I care about so long as eso isn't actually selling it. To be clear. I do NOT want pay to win just bind on equip

I know it's not a job, I play it to try and forget about my job. Except, I've been around the block long enough to know what happens to a game when it opens the floodgates like this. It losses its soul.

And no, I'm not being overly dramatic or anything. A lot of us old-school MMO players (I'm not 100% sure i count as Old-school but I've been playing them since WoTLK, so that counts for something I guess) don't really care about skins or mounts or any of that. Once we get to endgame and experience all the content we want to (i'm not there yet myself for this game), the gear is our pursuit, and sure we'll stick around for a few months after that gear is out to play with our friends or get the mounts / skins / etc, but if you remove gear from the equation, it kills the game for us.

Now, I don't grind (much) either, and I 100% agree that something needs to be done about itemization and RNG. Lo and behold, the PTS changes seem to do just that! We'll see how effective they are, but they seem to be trying their utmost to break the current meta of a few traits being God.

And if you think real wallets won't get involved, you're wrong. As soon as those floodgates get opened, and endgame gear is available for sale, gold-sellers will come out of the woodwork to meet that demand. If you're above it that's cool and all, but what about your friends? If, say, 3 out of the 4 of them "caved and bought moondancer using a goldseller" doesn't that kinda ruin the game for you too? It certainly does for me.

Regardless of how predominant the gold-selling would become, the game would become far more based around the economy than actually killing things. With the elitism that already happens with guild traders, this would be terrible. Again, the game would be losing its soul.

Nah I could care less. Sure I wouldn't like the way the did it but so long as it's just their stupidity and not ZOS making it pay to win then I don't care. I would just be glad they got what they wanted. And even a little happy some poor man that is so desperate he has to play games for a little side cash or cash found a way to make some I guess. Better than rich executives at ZOS anyways. Im not sure what you want me to say. I guess in your eyes I will always be wrong. I don't know how to explain to you how to be happy for your friends when they are happy.

Coilbox wrote: »

BIS is not what YOU want, but what the trending youtuber in the moment said it's 'best in slot'.

Come on man. It's a game. Sure absolute BiS can be pigeonholed but honestly it is a game. One man's trash is another's treasure (esp in this game where I'm constantly giving away vicious death rings and VO everything to people. Also twin fanged sucks lol). Ultimately what I'm saying is that trying to focus on the definition is a pointless red herring. The question is whether you like the concept of boe or not.

This would be a good time to revert this . Some people don't want to grind all over again and buying a new weapon or armor set would help get back to playing instead of farming .

Coilbox wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

Coilbox wrote: »

BIS is not what YOU want, but what the trending youtuber in the moment said it's 'best in slot'.

Come on man. It's a game. Sure absolute BiS can be pigeonholed but honestly it is a game. One man's trash is another's treasure (esp in this game where I'm constantly giving away vicious death rings and VO everything to people. Also twin fanged sucks lol). Ultimately what I'm saying is that trying to focus on the definition is a pointless red herring. The question is whether you like the concept of boe or not.

Well, It deppends on what item would be BOE... Im up for the loot being tradeable between the people running a trial or a dungeon, it means everyone able to pick up any items at least was participating in the event (raid, dungeon or whatever...). Now, as I said earlier, named items as gear from dungeons or trials, in my opinion, should stay as they are now.

I dont like the idea of being able to use your wallet for everything (when i say wallet i mean ingame gold ofc), many of the items would lose their... essence of being something you have to fight for or earn. I know there's a lot of people that would pay a lot for the maelstrom weapons (even when i think they are a bit overrated), but come on, lots of us put a lot of effort on completing that hell of a place to get them... Wouldnt be fair that now ZOS decided to make them market fodder.

You said it yourself, there's a lot of people that wouldnt put a foot on that arena even on years, never... and I understand, cause it's a tedious place that after all, when you finish it, it gives you 'a chance' of getting what you want.
When you finally get it after hundreds of runs (or maybe not so many, deppends on your luck) it's a great feeling of satisfaction, at least for me it was.
Maybe some others dont give a *** about that feeling, but it would feel like a stab on my back to see it wallet-able and available to everyone who has some gold. It's not fair.

A system that aliviates the RNG? Damn yes... im totally up for it.
Any other system that allows you to get named items not having to run whatever activity it comes from and just using wallet. Im sorry, im not up for it.

We don't share the same view point. The way o see it boe would allow me to sell or....gasp...trade my crap tastic (to me) VMA greatswords for staves or bows. After all, like u said, the cost would be astronomically high for a vma weapon (because that's what the market does...supply and demand). I'm sick of vma. I do one boss a night or one vma per night depending on the time I have (I have two toddlers). I would love the opportunity to sell the stock pile of stuff or trade it for that sharp (lol now precise or nirnhoned Bc ZOS can't stop shooting themselves in the foot with the nerfs) bow or lightning staves. But I don't know how to make you understand so we can agree to disagree.

Jeremy wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

I just want to be able to play my favorite game without spending useless hours trying to get BiS gear.

I've done that since release.

Wnat to know my secret?

I'm not fixated on BiS which is little more than 1% better than stuff that's far more readily available .. 1% is not significant.

Ummm... good for you? Glad you're enjoying it. But I'm not really sure what your point is. You're basically saying that most of us should just give up?

I think the point was not to stress it so much. It wasn't to just give up.

Not having that 1% increase isn't going to kill you and is not worth spamming a dungeon non stop until you end up hating the game. Just take it in stride and do the dungeon when you feel like doing a dungeon. Think of it as the game giving you something to do when you want something to do.

That presumes it actually is 1%. It's not. I'm also just a bottomline guy. Bottomline has been significant. Post morrowind patch my mag sorc could only hit about 20 - 25k dps with my bsw set up. With netches the exact same set up is hitting between 30 - 33k dps. Besides I want that extra 10k dps!!! You really are saying if I get frustrated just give up because it's not that big of a deal. It's like saying we have chocolate ice cream but that's too good for you, you get minty....suck it up and enjoy...at least you're getting ice cream. Well, I'm happy not starving in the third world but I don't want to deprive myself because someone says mint is ok...

lauykanson wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

I just want to be able to play my favorite game without spending useless hours trying to get BiS gear.

I've done that since release.

Wnat to know my secret?

I'm not fixated on BiS which is little more than 1% better than stuff that's far more readily available .. 1% is not significant.

Ummm... good for you? Glad you're enjoying it. But I'm not really sure what your point is. You're basically saying that most of us should just give up?

I think the point was not to stress it so much. It wasn't to just give up.

Not having that 1% increase isn't going to kill you and is not worth spamming a dungeon non stop until you end up hating the game. Just take it in stride and do the dungeon when you feel like doing a dungeon. Think of it as the game giving you something to do when you want something to do.

That presumes it actually is 1%. It's not. I'm also just a bottomline guy. Bottomline has been significant. Post morrowind patch my mag sorc could only hit about 20 - 25k dps with my bsw set up. With netches the exact same set up is hitting between 30 - 33k dps. Besides I want that extra 10k dps!!! You really are saying if I get frustrated just give up because it's not that big of a deal. It's like saying we have chocolate ice cream but that's too good for you, you get minty....suck it up and enjoy...at least you're getting ice cream. Well, I'm happy not starving in the third world but I don't want to deprive myself because someone says mint is ok...

In solo test netch is defo much stronger than bsw/julianos setup because exploiter passive is so stupid OP at the moment with pure lightning damage setup u get a very high uptime of consussion and off-balance, thats like 18% extra damage. I am not saying I want it to happen but don't get surprised if ZOS nerf exploiter to like 5% dmg buff, that *** is kinda counterintuitive to build diversity and CP diversity.

Yeah ZOS doesn't know their *** from a hole in the ground when it comes to how to fix the game. If they nerf this it will just continue the long trail towards the end of the game imo....HEY hey hey!!!!!! Let's not derail this thread though!!!!!! Boe ZOS...make it happen...

lauykanson wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

lauykanson wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

I just want to be able to play my favorite game without spending useless hours trying to get BiS gear.

I've done that since release.

Wnat to know my secret?

I'm not fixated on BiS which is little more than 1% better than stuff that's far more readily available .. 1% is not significant.

Ummm... good for you? Glad you're enjoying it. But I'm not really sure what your point is. You're basically saying that most of us should just give up?

I think the point was not to stress it so much. It wasn't to just give up.

Not having that 1% increase isn't going to kill you and is not worth spamming a dungeon non stop until you end up hating the game. Just take it in stride and do the dungeon when you feel like doing a dungeon. Think of it as the game giving you something to do when you want something to do.

That presumes it actually is 1%. It's not. I'm also just a bottomline guy. Bottomline has been significant. Post morrowind patch my mag sorc could only hit about 20 - 25k dps with my bsw set up. With netches the exact same set up is hitting between 30 - 33k dps. Besides I want that extra 10k dps!!! You really are saying if I get frustrated just give up because it's not that big of a deal. It's like saying we have chocolate ice cream but that's too good for you, you get minty....suck it up and enjoy...at least you're getting ice cream. Well, I'm happy not starving in the third world but I don't want to deprive myself because someone says mint is ok...

In solo test netch is defo much stronger than bsw/julianos setup because exploiter passive is so stupid OP at the moment with pure lightning damage setup u get a very high uptime of consussion and off-balance, thats like 18% extra damage. I am not saying I want it to happen but don't get surprised if ZOS nerf exploiter to like 5% dmg buff, that *** is kinda counterintuitive to build diversity and CP diversity.

Yeah ZOS doesn't know their *** from a hole in the ground when it comes to how to fix the game. If they nerf this it will just continue the long trail towards the end of the game imo....HEY hey hey!!!!!! Let's not derail this thread though!!!!!! Boe ZOS...make it happen...

I am happy to have BoE for all the vet dungeon gears, or normal trial gears as well. But for vet trial gear i'm not too sure whether those gold jewelry should be flowing around on the market. And for vMA and vDSA thats a big no, if you cant beat the content you don''t deserve to get hold of the gear...That being said I do support the idea of token system, no skilled player should be punished by the horrific rng in this game

See my prior responses to people with your ideas for further information on my opinion. Disagree.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Yeah, I agree. I'm sick of Darkshade Caverns. RNG hates me and will not cough up a Netch necklace.

I feel you, I was in there for 1 whole week to farm my last piece divine helmet and finally gave up...

drake88131 wrote: »

lauykanson wrote: »

See my prior responses to people with your ideas for further information on my opinion. Disagree.

Well even if all gear is BoE I doubt it will change the current situation a lot, people who got BiS traits will more likely to trade the weapon or save it for their alt toons before putting it up onto guild store for sale, so the demand will still far exceeds supply unless you don't mind buying sub-par traits which could potentially still be over-priced. Yes if they are BoE you can put the trash traits onto guild store and hopefully get some of the money back for all the time invested, but I doubt anyone who is aware of meta will purchase them.

If the token system is being implemented with acceptable conditions you are better off doing multiple vMA runs to get what you want, it takes less than an hour once you are familiar with the place...Token system that I mentioned is the one that allow you to exchange current vma weapons for tokens...After all vMA weapons are end-game gear it makes sense to invest time into to obtain it (only with token system), and if you really hate doing vMA then just use other sets, they are more than enough to complete all content unless you are doing vet trial speedruns

Your solution to the tedious pointless grind...is more tedious pointless grind? Token systems r really just another way to enforce RNG and grinding. No thank you. I'd be ok with boe and a token system though.

How would it enforce RNG...?

A token system would allow you to get rid of your non desired weapons or gear... trading it for tokens... when collecting certain amount of tokens you could trade them for whatever weapon/gear you want...?

Yes, the RNG would still be there of course, that's something ZOS is not going to get rid of, but at least you would see a bit of light at the end of the tunnel? cause you would know that after some failing RNG's you would at least be able to trade your wastage for something useful...

Forget about not having to grind on this game, that's the way ZOS make people get stuff... cause it makes people play their game.

apostate9 wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

I don't care that a noob can just get lots of gold and buy BiS gear. I don't care that some idiot scum is out there farming it and making real world money off of it or some idiot is buying it for real world money. I don't care that some elitists would be upset. I just want to be able to play my favorite game without spending useless hours trying to get BiS gear...again so I can enjoy more time doing other things. Like...shocker...playing my free time after work on a game I enjoy. I'm almost out of darkshade with all my divine netches but I don't feel like I earned anything. I just feel like the knucklehead that wasted dozens of hours repeating content over and over. Title says it all. Just make it happen ZOS before you lose more than one fun and entertaining YouTuber in Nebraska. Ps to stop the trolls...I have beaten vma multiple times on a stamblade and no I don't care that someone could just buy or sell my gear I worked so hard at getting. Seriously...I do not care.

Word. This is what gold is for...buying stuff. The BOP sets idea was a bad one. Please revert. Nobody likes it and nobody really benefits. The economy is sluggish right now, all the gear for sale is the same lame stuff, and if the content isn't interesting enough to make people want to do it for it's own sake, it's a content problem. Don't blackmail people into grinding dungeons they find boring.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Im somebody who likes the BOP idea... Not everyone is against it...

apostate9 wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

I don't care that a noob can just get lots of gold and buy BiS gear. I don't care that some idiot scum is out there farming it and making real world money off of it or some idiot is buying it for real world money. I don't care that some elitists would be upset. I just want to be able to play my favorite game without spending useless hours trying to get BiS gear...again so I can enjoy more time doing other things. Like...shocker...playing my free time after work on a game I enjoy. I'm almost out of darkshade with all my divine netches but I don't feel like I earned anything. I just feel like the knucklehead that wasted dozens of hours repeating content over and over. Title says it all. Just make it happen ZOS before you lose more than one fun and entertaining YouTuber in Nebraska. Ps to stop the trolls...I have beaten vma multiple times on a stamblade and no I don't care that someone could just buy or sell my gear I worked so hard at getting. Seriously...I do not care.

Word. This is what gold is for...buying stuff. The BOP sets idea was a bad one. Please revert. Nobody likes it and nobody really benefits. The economy is sluggish right now, all the gear for sale is the same lame stuff, and if the content isn't interesting enough to make people want to do it for it's own sake, it's a content problem. Don't blackmail people into grinding dungeons they find boring.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

10-1 bet if Jessica responds it will be some mealy mouth nonsense statement and then bounce never to be heard from again.

Coilbox wrote: »

drake88131 wrote: »

Coilbox wrote: »

BIS is not what YOU want, but what the trending youtuber in the moment said it's 'best in slot'.

Come on man. It's a game. Sure absolute BiS can be pigeonholed but honestly it is a game. One man's trash is another's treasure (esp in this game where I'm constantly giving away vicious death rings and VO everything to people. Also twin fanged sucks lol). Ultimately what I'm saying is that trying to focus on the definition is a pointless red herring. The question is whether you like the concept of boe or not.

Well, It deppends on what item would be BOE... Im up for the loot being tradeable between the people running a trial or a dungeon, it means everyone able to pick up any items at least was participating in the event (raid, dungeon or whatever...). Now, as I said earlier, named items as gear from dungeons or trials, in my opinion, should stay as they are now.

I dont like the idea of being able to use your wallet for everything (when i say wallet i mean ingame gold ofc), many of the items would lose their... essence of being something you have to fight for or earn. I know there's a lot of people that would pay a lot for the maelstrom weapons (even when i think they are a bit overrated), but come on, lots of us put a lot of effort on completing that hell of a place to get them... Wouldnt be fair that now ZOS decided to make them market fodder.

You said it yourself, there's a lot of people that wouldnt put a foot on that arena even on years, never... and I understand, cause it's a tedious place that after all, when you finish it, it gives you 'a chance' of getting what you want.
When you finally get it after hundreds of runs (or maybe not so many, deppends on your luck) it's a great feeling of satisfaction, at least for me it was.
Maybe some others dont give a *** about that feeling, but it would feel like a stab on my back to see it wallet-able and available to everyone who has some gold. It's not fair.

A system that aliviates the RNG? Damn yes... im totally up for it.
Any other system that allows you to get named items not having to run whatever activity it comes from and just using wallet. Im sorry, im not up for it.

LOL, Its not fair? You think the world is fair? Even ESO isn't "fair". You think its "fair" that some people get a sharpened vMA inferno staff their first clear and other STILL dont have one after 300 runs? You think its "fair" that every time they raise the CP cap, its easier for those below the cap to reach it...even though those above the cap had to grind out the full exp for every single CP? You think its "fair" that ZoS nerfs everything down to the lowest common denominator? You think its "fair" for me to have invested 18 months into researching 9 traits and only have maybe a half dozen viable sets to craft, but that I can grind 20 viable sets investing no time in crafting?

Again...someone else buying a decisive vMA staff for 1 million gold does NOTHING to devalue your accomplishment in having farmed the same thing, if anything you should be happy, thats a million extra gold for you. Again, people put effort into getting that gold....are you saying their effort is less than your effort? If they bought the gold with real money, they put real-world effort into it...if they earned it through in-game effort...its still effort...and I am sure it took them a lot longer than one measly hour of game play to make that million gold...where thats all it would take you to "earn" that vMA staff through grinding. By your logice absolutely EVERYTHING in game should be BoP....need some nirnroot? go "earn" it by harvesting it yourself. Need some lockpicks? Go "earn" it by farming a dwarven ruin. Need some Spell Crit Pots? Go "earn" them by maxing alchemy and farming mats. No...what you really want is to exclude people from certain items in the game because you think your effort is worth more than their different kind of effort. You want to feel superior to them in some way. You want divide the population into classes based on gear. The elites and the plebs, determined by whether or not they have spent untold hours practicing vMA mechanics and grinding the place.

To be clear, I dont believe in "BiS" to begin with...I think you should use whatever sets best suit your particular playstyle as long as they meet whatever the requirements are for what you are doing, but every set(and unique weapon) in the game should be BoE. If I am in a trial and a vMA staff gives a DPS and extra 2k DPS(or whatever it really is...likely not anywhere close to that) do I care whether he farmed it or bought it? hell no! I am just glad he is doing an extra 2k DPS.