I'm able to kill my 20 sorcs a day pretty quickly. Add some resource poisons to your build and some crowd control abilities. I run a sorc and he dies plenty. You should at least try and change your build a little before crying for nerfs. That is what I did with the super tanky DK's. I would suggest getting combat metrics and see what works against sorcs.

Hurika wrote: »

Shields absorb up to 50% of incoming damage while up. Shield values scale based on level instead of stats.

Or

Shields work as-s except any crit bonus damage (and only the crit bonus damage) bypasses the shield and goes directly to health.

Or

If a shield won't let crits in, it won't let them out either - ie the caster can't crit while the whield is up either.

Or

Add a new weapon trait that allows 10% (1h) and 20% (2h) of damage to bypass shields/block.

Or

Casting a shield grants a buff that causes blocking to drain magicka instead of stamina but not absorb damage.

Pick any 1.

The problem is a good shield can negate 2-4 global cool downs of an attacker at the expense of 1 global cooldown of the caster. Good sorcs don't run out of stamina with the CC cooldown being what... 7s? So CC is not an option as they can always break free.

I respect how your the only one giving out actually fix suggestion, but on the contrary shields are fine as they are.

They're not cheap
They last for 6 sec
Shield breaker
Shattering blows (37 points is 15% more dmg)

All said in done nerf them anymore you'll make sorc unplayable.

@Derra @Biro123 @Irylia Someone told me Bleeds go through shields is this true?

Honestly... The solution is to allow people to crit hit shields

Copy my response to shields from another thread....

The poster I replied to made these statements so I went with those numbers.

2 shields to stack worth of roughly 20-25k damage absorption that take 2 seconds to put up
Lets say each player does roughly 5k damage every global right?

My response explaining why it's a problem.

Remember those players cannot crit the shields. So are you suggesting it's 5k dps per player against the non-crit shield or against the sorc with shields down. Even that though in a 1v1 they can negate 10-12.5k dps per seconds against a target doing 5k dps (or less depending on how you came up with 5k and crits). So shield, shield, dmg, dmg - rinse repeat and the DPS would never touch the enemies health.

Though even if they did it would take another 4 GCD (assuming ~19-20k health - again depending how you came up with 5k dps) to chew through their health. So really more like shield, shield, dmg, dmg, dmg and you'd realistically take no damage or at least no chance of dying. Now if you throw in runes that for 1 GCD can stun and do dmg (possibly mutliple times) you can shield, shield, runes, dmg, dmg, dmg (maybe more if they are then CC'd by runes) with little risk of taking real damage. If you take into account that the DPS may have to cast a heal every so many GCD's the dps race gets even worse and the sorc can cast more dmg and less shield (to the point the 6s cooldown limits them but then they can interleave the shields and not need to cast back to back).

CC wouldn't help the dps since that's a GCD to CC but a GCD to break free so it's a wash. And by not having to block, there's not a really a huge risk of not having stamina to break free since it's not being used for anything else (Amberplasm is a good example of this).

So while magic and stam regen both took a nerf, vigor also took a nerf so the attacker will deplete resources even quicker than before. Stam abilities costs also were increased in general while shields were not. Also simply ignoring the highest DPS class is probably not a good counter.

Having the ability to use 1 GCD to negate 2-3 GCD of attacks indefinitely sets the risk to almost 0 while still allowing significant dps.

This will get worse with burst damage decreasing. It also doesn't take into account monster sets that reduce incoming damage.

I really think this is left over from skelton helm last patch which people wrongully attritured to shields. There has been a drop in the amount of sorcs since then. I think before anymore nerfs go around, we need to see how this next patch roles out

Crit to shields is a really bad idea, especially with the next patch.

Git gud m8
Sincerely,
A sorc who runs a wardless build.

Barbardin wrote: »

Really, ZOS, you should nerf those sorc, which are using shileds 24/7, it's just impossible to cut through it, also you can't crit on shield! Those shields make sorc class extremely tanky and they also hit like trucks!

Git gud, also, get the shattering blows cp perk.

Shields dnt have resistance, because of this fact u cant crit shields

Hurika wrote: »

lrizo wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Shields absorb up to 50% of incoming damage while up. Shield values scale based on level instead of stats.

Or

Shields work as-s except any crit bonus damage (and only the crit bonus damage) bypasses the shield and goes directly to health.

Or

If a shield won't let crits in, it won't let them out either - ie the caster can't crit while the whield is up either.

Or

Add a new weapon trait that allows 10% (1h) and 20% (2h) of damage to bypass shields/block.

Or

Casting a shield grants a buff that causes blocking to drain magicka instead of stamina but not absorb damage.

Pick any 1.

The problem is a good shield can negate 2-4 global cool downs of an attacker at the expense of 1 global cooldown of the caster. Good sorcs don't run out of stamina with the CC cooldown being what... 7s? So CC is not an option as they can always break free.

I respect how your the only one giving out actually fix suggestion, but on the contrary shields are fine as they are.

They're not cheap
They last for 6 sec
Shield breaker
Shattering blows (37 points is 15% more dmg)

All said in done nerf them anymore you'll make sorc unplayable.

Keep in mind with the next expansion burst damage will likely decrease meaning it will be even harder to burst shields or the caster if they let them down. If they acted more like vigor..... 1 cast gave you a shield of 2k every second for 4s it would be different. The instant ability to mitigate all (virtually all) damage that takes multiple cooldowns of dps to get through is the problem. Non-critable makes it more of a challenge. I still think any of the above options would allow for better balance and prevent the shutdown of all incoming damage.

Hurika wrote: »

lrizo wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Shields absorb up to 50% of incoming damage while up. Shield values scale based on level instead of stats.

Or

Shields work as-s except any crit bonus damage (and only the crit bonus damage) bypasses the shield and goes directly to health.

Or

If a shield won't let crits in, it won't let them out either - ie the caster can't crit while the whield is up either.

Or

Add a new weapon trait that allows 10% (1h) and 20% (2h) of damage to bypass shields/block.

Or

Casting a shield grants a buff that causes blocking to drain magicka instead of stamina but not absorb damage.

Pick any 1.

The problem is a good shield can negate 2-4 global cool downs of an attacker at the expense of 1 global cooldown of the caster. Good sorcs don't run out of stamina with the CC cooldown being what... 7s? So CC is not an option as they can always break free.

I respect how your the only one giving out actually fix suggestion, but on the contrary shields are fine as they are.

They're not cheap
They last for 6 sec
Shield breaker
Shattering blows (37 points is 15% more dmg)

All said in done nerf them anymore you'll make sorc unplayable.

Keep in mind with the next expansion burst damage will likely decrease meaning it will be even harder to burst shields or the caster if they let them down. If they acted more like vigor..... 1 cast gave you a shield of 2k every second for 4s it would be different. The instant ability to mitigate all (virtually all) damage that takes multiple cooldowns of dps to get through is the problem. Non-critable makes it more of a challenge. I still think any of the above options would allow for better balance and prevent the shutdown of all incoming damage.

what seems to be the main issue that everyone looks pass is that shields are literally the sorcs only defense against dmg. On the topic of shields not being critable, you have to take into account that shields also have 0 resistances (which is a pretty fair trade off).

But lets take your options step by step and see why they would not work.

1. Having shields negate only 50% damage would be a *** show considering ulti's can hit into the 10k+ range. ontop of that some class skills can get up pretty high as well. And because of the lack of a sufficient class heal and even a viable resto staff heal, this would be a free shield breaker scenario. Also think about two nb with same build and same rotation that damage they do wouldn't matter if you had a shield or not.
2. Having crit damage pass would have the same consequences as option 1
3. Again shields have 0 resistances so it's a fair trade off to not be able to crit.
4. Same concept as option 1 and 2 there is no sufficient heal to counter this.
5. This one makes no sense. Did you think about how much mana would be lost if I can block with it. Think about if a Stam build that wasn't built for blocking held block the whole fight. Their resources would be gone in a heart beat.

If you still don't understand how these options are awful I would suggest you create a sorc and see for yourself what it's like to be in our shoes.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Crying about how expensive shields are while it costs 17k stamina to block Soul Strike. Oh and I don't get stamina regen while I block that. Ridiculous.

This thread is just an example that magicka chars (well it's basically not only a sorc thing) think that it is a good game design that they pretty much don't have to care at all about pressure and can only die to massive burst. And no, I don't complain about shields in first hand (shields are fine in my opinion as long as they are used on a normal build). What I'm complaining about is that people can get up to 50k+ magicka, especially on PTS with the changes (Necro, Shadowrend) on basically every class. And don't forget vampire undead passive which makes it harder (harder = impossible) to execute sorcs on low hp. Oh let's also not forget Major Protection from restoration ultimate or that Major Evasion works on shields as well.Lets just ignore that my shields are 2,5x times higher (with Necropotence of course) than my vigor tooltip with alchemist proc up and that my vigor is affected by defile effects while shields aren't. Lets tell stamina users to l2p instead and call for stamina mobility nerfs.

They wanted to make it less attractive to stack max stats, and they did... but only for stamina. I don't understand why they removed every incentive to stack max stamina from the game but didn't touch the magicka side at all.

It makes absolutely no sense the way it is right now and next update theyre going to buff the max stat set bonuses up because.... why? With the proc set crutch (rightfully) taking a nerf and everyone having higher max stat pools, we'll just go back to a good old meta of shieldstack dominance.

I'm trying really hard to think of a single reason to bring my stam DK to group play instead of my mag sorc but I just can't think of anything. Survivability and sustain both got gutted with morrowind and sorc is as good as ever.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Crying about how expensive shields are while it costs 17k stamina to block Soul Strike. Oh and I don't get stamina regen while I block that. Ridiculous.

Compare that to just harness it.. it will cost hardly any magic..

This thread is just an example that magicka chars (well it's basically not only a sorc thing) think that it is a good game design that they pretty much don't have to care at all about pressure and can only die to massive burst. And no, I don't complain about shields in first hand (shields are fine in my opinion as long as they are used on a normal[/b] build). What I'm complaining about is that people can get up to 50k+ magicka, especially on PTS with the changes (Necro, Shadowrend) on basically every class. And don't forget vampire undead passive which makes it harder (harder = impossible) to execute sorcs on low hp. Oh let's also not forget Major Protection from restoration ultimate or that Major Evasion works on shields as well.Lets just ignore that my shields are 2,5x times higher (with Necropotence of course) than my vigor tooltip with alchemist proc up and that my vigor is affected by defile effects while shields aren't. Lets tell stamina users to l2p instead and call for stamina mobility nerfs.

Yeah, it always suprises me that (mostly) sorcs just cant admit how strong shields are and always fall back to this argument. Their other argument is ''vigor and dodge roll is better in 1vx'' followed by ''make a sorc a play one and you will see how hard it is.'' They always seem to forget that the sorc gets the advantages of a having shield when he is xv1ing someone.. You cant kill sorcs quickly because of this yet they are the most dangerous class in a xv1 because of their auto execute BS endless fury blow up at 25% health

I dont mind sorcs that much because usually i can kill the bad and average sorcs quite easy but sorcs not being able to see how strong their class does trigger me. I dont mind if people play the easy strong class but atleast admit it..

lrizo wrote: »

1. Having shields negate only 50% damage would be a *** show considering ulti's can hit into the 10k+ range. ontop of that some class skills can get up pretty high as well. And because of the lack of a sufficient class heal and even a viable resto staff heal, this would be a free shield breaker scenario. Also think about two nb with same build and same rotation that damage they do wouldn't matter if you had a shield or not.

not a bad idea but 50% is a bit low.. should be higer if this was an option

2. Having crit damage pass would have the same consequences as option 1

bad idea, sorcs would be destroyed in seconds by a high crit build

You missed the not being able to crit when shields are up, this is actually one of the best ideas ive seen. Magic builds slot Inner Light for bigger shields mostly but it also gives loads of crit.. how is it fair that i can hardly touch a sorc healthbar yet they can stand in mines (which can one shot medium armor builds if they hit multiple mines and they all crit) and hit me in the face with a 10k+ crit frag all while shieldstacking

3. Again shields have 0 resistances so it's a fair trade off to not be able to crit.

Not true, when i crit leap someone i very often get a nice yellow 9k or 10k pop up on my screen, when i leap a shield i get 7 or 8k at most. Sorc breaks CC from leap, puts up another hardend ward and im without ult and sorc hardy lost any health Dizzyswing into leap helps but it isnt the 2shot combo it used to be anymore. After a swing and a leap the sorc breaks CC (they never run out of stam), puts up a healing ward, shields the healing ward and i cant touch the healing so they heal up to atleast 80& health again

4. Same concept as option 1 and 2 there is no sufficient heal to counter this.

build for a heal, stam builds use vigor, rally and some even use bow knockback heal, crit surge, nightblade siphoning stuff and repenetance for healing while sorcs only slot healing ward (which get protected by atleast a harness and on sorc by hardend)

5. This one makes no sense. Did you think about how much mana would be lost if I can block with it. Think about if a Stam build that wasn't built for blocking held block the whole fight. Their resources would be gone in a heart beat.

If you still don't understand how these options are awful I would suggest you create a sorc and see for yourself what it's like to be in our shoes.

here we go, always this argument... i actually did it once, had to go to the sewers on my new sorc and went from Alessia to the sewers while encountering 3 reds. I had never played pvp on a sorc and i killed them all while only going below 50% health once. They sucked but it would have taken way more effort on a stamina class.

Whenever I hear people cry about sorc shields, especially stam builds, all I hear is "I have small *** dps".

If you have to spend more than one rotation to burst through a shield stack, then you need to stop playing a *** build with low damage.

lrizo wrote: »

1. Having shields negate only 50% damage would be a *** show considering ulti's can hit into the 10k+ range. ontop of that some class skills can get up pretty high as well. And because of the lack of a sufficient class heal and even a viable resto staff heal, this would be a free shield breaker scenario. Also think about two nb with same build and same rotation that damage they do wouldn't matter if you had a shield or not.

not a bad idea but 50% is a bit low.. should be higer if this was an option

2. Having crit damage pass would have the same consequences as option 1

bad idea, sorcs would be destroyed in seconds by a high crit build

You missed the not being able to crit when shields are up, this is actually one of the best ideas ive seen. Magic builds slot Inner Light for bigger shields mostly but it also gives loads of crit.. how is it fair that i can hardly touch a sorc healthbar yet they can stand in mines (which can one shot medium armor builds if they hit multiple mines and they all crit) and hit me in the face with a 10k+ crit frag all while shieldstacking

3. Again shields have 0 resistances so it's a fair trade off to not be able to crit.

Not true, when i crit leap someone i very often get a nice yellow 9k or 10k pop up on my screen, when i leap a shield i get 7 or 8k at most. Sorc breaks CC from leap, puts up another hardend ward and im without ult and sorc hardy lost any health Dizzyswing into leap helps but it isnt the 2shot combo it used to be anymore. After a swing and a leap the sorc breaks CC (they never run out of stam), puts up a healing ward, shields the healing ward and i cant touch the healing so they heal up to atleast 80& health again

4. Same concept as option 1 and 2 there is no sufficient heal to counter this.

build for a heal, stam builds use vigor, rally and some even use bow knockback heal, crit surge, nightblade siphoning stuff and repenetance for healing while sorcs only slot healing ward (which get protected by atleast a harness and on sorc by hardend)

5. This one makes no sense. Did you think about how much mana would be lost if I can block with it. Think about if a Stam build that wasn't built for blocking held block the whole fight. Their resources would be gone in a heart beat.

If you still don't understand how these options are awful I would suggest you create a sorc and see for yourself what it's like to be in our shoes.

here we go, always this argument... i actually did it once, had to go to the sewers on my new sorc and went from Alessia to the sewers while encountering 3 reds. I had never played pvp on a sorc and i killed them all while only going below 50% health once. They sucked but it would have taken way more effort on a stamina class.

C'mon mate get real, "build for heal" sorcs slot healing ward cause it's the best heal we got. If you think crit surge is viable you're delusional. You made a sorc and came across *** players. Not a surprise, most players that play the game still are *** players. If you can't kill a sorc you honestly need to start timing your burst better. It's not my fault your wasting your leaps on a freshly shielded sorc. That's like me complaining that a nb dodge rolled my dawny.

For the people complaining about how it cost so much Stam to block soul assault while it cost sorcs nothing. Then start complaining about soul assault you dumb mf'ers. You're blaming sorc shields for how hard soul assault hits. Pathetic.

I didn't miss out on not being able to crit I just thought it was pretty self explanatory that its pretty fair trade off that you can't crit on shields that has 0 resistances. However it would make no sense at all if sorcs couldn't crit on raw health that has somewhere around 15k+ spell and physical resistance. It's not rocket science mate just use your brain.

The only reson all this cry about procblades nothing about sorc lately is becouse evryone is a fricking sorc and they cant stand thought of they are not on the top on the food chain anymore. With out proc set nightblades are back at the bottom with the rest of classes. Becouse its balance to have a class that has it all the burst to a nightblade and almost the tankines to a dk and if thats not enough they have one of the best execute to, and if things go wrong they just streak their way into oblivion.. and none of the other classes is even close to do all that, but thats balance right. And its not only pvp, zone chat is full of people that want sorc only sorcs and maybe 1 or 2 mag dk as dps with them in trials. And if someone complain about it a sorc apears and say "Are u stupid, u just put points into that and use that and so and so" awesome! What other class do have change ur entire bouild just to beat? And about that time another super geek apear and say "omg learn to play" or "adapt and overcome" its like a Lamborghini raceing a old Volvo and then brag about skills. But dont worry zenimax probely dont even dare to nerf them anyway after all the cry and people quiting about the sustain nerfs, if u think that was bad can u imagine 99% of the player base cry and rage quiting while the smashing their keyboard.

If I can't kill it - it is cheating or it needs to be nerfed. If I die to someone they are cheating or they need to be nerfed. If a zerg of 40 people spamming destro runs me over and I die it was their fault.
Can we have the things that are actually broken fixed first before we continue the endless whining about the nerf this or that.