Vercingetorix wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

I'm not an elitist, neither a snowflake. I'm a PvP-player and I don't do PvE that often anymore. So my argument should be stronger, as I have barely any continious experience in PvE. Yet I manage the hardest achievements - all it takes is a random group of people wanting to complete it, then you work together as agroup to complete that. If you read my post you would see thatI spent 4 hours getting to the last stage of Planar Inhib - just to try it another day.

As a PvP player, your argument is WEAKER, not stronger as the content you are whining about doesn't even pertain to you. Second, you just stated you had a group carry you through the dungeons to get you the skins and achievements - proving my point, lol. Lastly, neither I nor anyone else cares that it took you 4 hours to complete one boss. Good for you.

Just because it took you 4 hours to finish the boss, doesn't mean a family man working all day wants to spend what little time he has at night making no progress. Hate to burst your bubble snowflake, but a big chunk of the player base is composed of working adults with responsibilities outside of sitting on their parents' couch all day. They don't have the luxury of farming vMA for days straight or staying up til 2AM on a boss fight. Allowing "pug" groups have a more reasonable timeframe to complete a DLC dungeon (a PAID dungeon) is a welcome change by ZoS. There are plenty of players who will tell you that they haven't even touched the Hist dungeons because those dungeons were designed for coordinated groups with "nearly-BiS" gear - they don't want to spend all night burning through soul gems/gold and then get nothing for it when someone has to leave because the group's been in the dungeon for 2+ hours.

It is not weaker. It means that even I, who have no continious PvE-experience - can complete it. I didn't state that I had a group carry me at all? You do know it takes 4 people to complete a vDungeon(especially when you're just starting out) and I've always been healing(Guess you can say healers get carried by DPS.....? if that's your perception of it). I'm not whining - just feeling that things are unfair the way this game is headed right now. I'm not even sure which point you're trying to prove - I never mentioned being carried and the fact that you automaticially think that says more about you than me, tbf.

I'm not asking you to care about it - just to prove that your argument is completely invalid when you stated that people with limited gametime shouldn't feel that they have no progress. You just have to work for something.

Dying is making progress, as someone else said, you learn by dying and failing miserably over and over again. Now you're just assuming that I have no life - no responsibilities - that I'm a no-life gamer and that's the standard argument when someone is out of decent arguments and does want to make personal attacks instead of a constructive discussion, well played.

No - they weren't designed for that. They were designed for progress. And as @Feanor is saying: The fact that a lot of PUGS doesn't even want to learn, communicate or get better.. .That's where the problem is. Not that dungeons are too hard.

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Barring players out of content just so you can appease your own ego is beyond ridiculous. Many players don't have the luxury of min-max gear and coordinated groups.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Not everyone has hours everyday to practice and grind gear . Games popularity depends on population . Just the way it goes .

*facepalms hard*

Gear. Gear.

FYI, petless magsorc in Julianos here. Obtained both Mazzatun and Cradle skins on ~350CP. 45+% of group DPS solid. In Homestead, yes. In Morrowind you'll have to be 400CP+. And I'm talking about skins, not just completion of vet.

Julianos. Julianos.

Gear. If you think that people are succesful because of gear, you still won't complete these dungeons, I assure you.

Mechanics are still there. Requirement for coordinated movements is still there. Good luck

Gear. Gear. Joke some more

rhapsodious wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Instead of keep nerfing those dungeons like WGT..already only needed half a braincell to complete those lmfao
Why not show people with actual USEFUL INGAME TIPS how they can improve their gamestyle and learn the game.

Maybe because some of us don't walk around with gold min-maxed gear and aren't disillusioned to how the other 99.9% of the player base works. You don't have to rely on the broken group finder, or hope that the other 3 players have decent gear, or pray that everyone else in the group is actually playing the role they queued for.

I do, however, approve of the changes on Velidreth. The nerf to her poison spores seems to put it back inline to how it was pre-Morrowind, since our sustain got nerfed - it makes sense that her drain would, too. And I can't tell you how many times there was just one too many things going on and I got ganked by the statue AOE. ): So I'll be happy to see that go. But WGT, the Overfiend fight, Lord Warden's shades and Xal-Nur were fine, IMO. Can we do something about Lord Warden sometimes not spawning the second portal, instead?

Velidreth spores nerf is another mechanic nerfed in favor of people refusing to learn more about it. Velidreth gobbles up the person with highest ulti and does spores based on his highest resource. Resource drain? You don't get resource drain. You get a tank whose highest resource is health, make him slot his costliest ulti and never use it. You also get a healer capable of purging/healing stacked health debuff(still easier than dealing with resource drain). I've literally seen non health spores a dozen times maybe in last 100 runs with friends and that was because either tank potatoed and died or we got really really unlucky at fight start/maze.

This is why we need BUFFS to mechanics, not nerfs. Stop leaving people the option to stay blissfully ignorant and get carried while ignoring mechanics. Force them to do damn mechanics if they want to do vet dungeons.

Magdalina wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Instead of keep nerfing those dungeons like WGT..already only needed half a braincell to complete those lmfao
Why not show people with actual USEFUL INGAME TIPS how they can improve their gamestyle and learn the game.

Maybe because some of us don't walk around with gold min-maxed gear and aren't disillusioned to how the other 99.9% of the player base works. You don't have to rely on the broken group finder, or hope that the other 3 players have decent gear, or pray that everyone else in the group is actually playing the role they queued for.

I do, however, approve of the changes on Velidreth. The nerf to her poison spores seems to put it back inline to how it was pre-Morrowind, since our sustain got nerfed - it makes sense that her drain would, too. And I can't tell you how many times there was just one too many things going on and I got ganked by the statue AOE. ): So I'll be happy to see that go. But WGT, the Overfiend fight, Lord Warden's shades and Xal-Nur were fine, IMO. Can we do something about Lord Warden sometimes not spawning the second portal, instead?

Velidreth spores nerf is another mechanic nerfed in favor of people refusing to learn more about it. Velidreth gobbles up the person with highest ulti and does spores based on his highest resource. Resource drain? You don't get resource drain. You get a tank whose highest resource is health, make him slot his costliest ulti and never use it. You also get a healer capable of purging/healing stacked health debuff(still easier than dealing with resource drain). I've literally seen non health spores a dozen times maybe in last 100 runs with friends and that was because either tank potatoed and died or we got really really unlucky at fight start/maze.

This is why we need BUFFS to mechanics, not nerfs. Stop leaving people the option to stay blissfully ignorant and get carried while ignoring mechanics. Force them to do damn mechanics if they want to do vet dungeons.

The patch notes say that the magicka and stamina drain from the spores is reduced. In the situation that you do get the blue or green orbs, they're not as much of a pain in the ass as they would be otherwise. I thought it was based on the max resources of the group, not the person who got their ulti drained, but that's good to know. (And that's an example of a mechanic that isn't super-clearly explained, as I imagine I'm not the only one who got as far as making the connection between orbs and resources without connecting that last dot.) Still susceptible to bad luck, and the less the healer has to spend time spamming Purge (which is costly), the better.

I agree the health debuff is easier to deal with (unless you're the tank I guess, lol), and that's probably why it was left alone.

The mechanic itself wasn't nerfed, it was just the values on the spores that got nerfed. Which, again, makes it less punishing after the sustain nerf in Morrowind and brings it back to Homestead-ish levels of punishing, which was fine. I agree that people should do mechanics, but they're still doing them with Velidreth.

Magdalina wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Instead of keep nerfing those dungeons like WGT..already only needed half a braincell to complete those lmfao
Why not show people with actual USEFUL INGAME TIPS how they can improve their gamestyle and learn the game.

Maybe because some of us don't walk around with gold min-maxed gear and aren't disillusioned to how the other 99.9% of the player base works. You don't have to rely on the broken group finder, or hope that the other 3 players have decent gear, or pray that everyone else in the group is actually playing the role they queued for.

I do, however, approve of the changes on Velidreth. The nerf to her poison spores seems to put it back inline to how it was pre-Morrowind, since our sustain got nerfed - it makes sense that her drain would, too. And I can't tell you how many times there was just one too many things going on and I got ganked by the statue AOE. ): So I'll be happy to see that go. But WGT, the Overfiend fight, Lord Warden's shades and Xal-Nur were fine, IMO. Can we do something about Lord Warden sometimes not spawning the second portal, instead?

Velidreth spores nerf is another mechanic nerfed in favor of people refusing to learn more about it. Velidreth gobbles up the person with highest ulti and does spores based on his highest resource. Resource drain? You don't get resource drain. You get a tank whose highest resource is health, make him slot his costliest ulti and never use it. You also get a healer capable of purging/healing stacked health debuff(still easier than dealing with resource drain). I've literally seen non health spores a dozen times maybe in last 100 runs with friends and that was because either tank potatoed and died or we got really really unlucky at fight start/maze.

This is why we need BUFFS to mechanics, not nerfs. Stop leaving people the option to stay blissfully ignorant and get carried while ignoring mechanics. Force them to do damn mechanics if they want to do vet dungeons.

So, you are in a coordinated group that knows how to exploit the mechanic... that proves nothing. Now, use the Group Finder for the other 3 players of your group. I'm anxious to hear the results, lol.

Alucardo wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

There is a normal version!

1 key, no monster helm, less undaunted exp, blue jewellery. Yeah, it's really not worth anyones time to run normal unless you're farming armor pieces.

The depraved souls you are attempting to talk to have such a diluted sense of self-worth that they cannot handle anyone getting something that they have. ("Snowflake Syndrome") ZoS could buff the DLC dungeons and these same fools would complain that new players' achievements aren't as special because they didn't "get the rewards when the dungeon was first released". They will make up anything to try to make their individual achievement "more equal" than someone else's.

I'm glad that more people will be able to get the achievements - I really welcome it. Unlike these children, I don't waste my time or energy caring about how other people got their achievements. I only care about my own personal achievement. The vMoL exploiters, the "pig farmers", or even the "writ exploiters" - it makes no difference to me. Good for them. As long their gameplay doesn't directly harm my own progress, I couldn't care less what they do.

I'm with ALCAST in this
They do not need to nerfear the dungeons, what they have to do is improve the reward according to the effort it takes to overcome them.
That's why people are professional in VMA because the weapons are really good. In VMA you only need your own personal interest to do it, but in dungeon you need 4! So the incentive should be bigger.
So we should have gold jewelry and better rewards for HM maybe a weekly score as well

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

There's already guides for every single boss online. Why not reach out to the creators(if possible) and ask if you can use them, saying that you write "Guide written by xxxx" at the bottom or top. Sure that must be a better way of doing it than completely ruining the experience for players that actually took the time to *learn* mechanics.

...And there's the typical snowflake elitist mentality that's harming this game. So you beat the dungeon day 1? Neat, no one cares but you. Oh, you have every achievement on day 1? Big deal, here's your imaginary gold star.

Barring players out of content just so you can appease your own ego is beyond ridiculous. Many players don't have the luxury of min-max gear and coordinated groups. Vet dungeons should require you to complete the associated mechanic, but still complete the dungeon.

Experience should only function as a means to complete the dungeon with less soul gem usage and a faster completion time. It should NOT be a prerequisite to even get gear. Many players simply SKIP these DLC dungeons right now because they aren't even sure if their random group will be able to do it - they could spend a whole night and get NOTHING for it. ZoS wants to change that and frankly, it's a good change.

Vet dungeons are not hard. I'm a casual player with imperfect gear and memebership in non-competitive guilds, and I have no issues with them.

Have you tried joining a guild? I'd do that before crying. Not everything needs to be PUGable.

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

There is a normal version!

1 key, no monster helm, less undaunted exp, blue jewellery. Yeah, it's really not worth anyones time to run normal unless you're farming armor pieces.

The depraved souls you are attempting to talk to have such a diluted sense of self-worth that they cannot handle anyone getting something that they have. ("Snowflake Syndrome") ZoS could buff the DLC dungeons and these same fools would complain that new players' achievements aren't as special because they didn't "get the rewards when the dungeon was first released". They will make up anything to try to make their individual achievement "more equal" than someone else's.

I'm glad that more people will be able to get the achievements - I really welcome it. Unlike these children, I don't waste my time or energy caring about how other people got their achievements. I only care about my own personal achievement. The vMoL exploiters, the "pig farmers", or even the "writ exploiters" - it makes no difference to me. Good for them. As long their gameplay doesn't directly harm my own progress, I couldn't care less what they do.

I couldn't care less about your achievements. If it feels good for you to have done a hard mode that is actually faceroll easy, well then there isn't much to say. You can link your Shehai Shatterer all day when people know it's worthless. Why is it so hard to understand for people like you that veteran dungeons are supposed to be challenging and that there are players who enjoy harder content which pushes them to the brink as players? If you just want to sit back and relax then normal version is perfect. If you want all the stuff the veteran version holds then you should get good enough - like everyone else who wanted that did.

Yes. Having four dungeons out of 28 or so that are even resembling a shade of a challenge sure is catering to 0.1%. Again, if it's too hard for you, do normal. And yes of course it's feeling like a chore if you're not good enough. You don't need to have it like that though. Again, do normal. Or are you trying to claim that even normal mode is just too hard for your average PUG?

Its either making people l2p or nerfing the content so even lesser players can just afk burn through the bosses.

Alucardo wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

There is a normal version!

1 key, no monster helm, less undaunted exp, blue jewellery. Yeah, it's really not worth anyones time to run normal unless you're farming armor pieces.

Players who only want to do easy content don't need monster sets and purple jewelry.

If i run dungeons, i only do so with PUGs. And yes, vet DLC dungeons (+CoA2) are often a pain with PuGs. That's why i rarely do it. But that's fine. There is zero need for anyone to run those Dungeon on vet modus with random people. The game has more than enough easy content, so why not keep the few things that are more difficult for those that enjoy it?