Remember when people said non cp pvp is more balanced? LOL

G0ku · June 2017

Kay1 wrote: »

My platform is also "special" here the best players don't even touch each other

nothing special here, on pc eu those "best" players only seek battles vs. lowbobs, cyrodiil is to grind AP not to compete with someone with similar skill level. most players of that caliber are in the same guild
and will rather team up cross faction than fighting each other

don´t know what´s the discussion about cp, gives us options and players will choose. if you got 100+ queue on weekend its clear there has to be a 2nd campaign of the same kind

josiahva · June 2017

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

As someone with max CP, I have to say I like non-CP campaigns better. The proc sets may or may not be an issue in BGs(I havent played there yet) but they arent in Cyrodiil in general. In non-CP you actually have to play better to survive. Siege hits harder, you have fewer resources, etc. At the same time though it doesnt matter because your enemies are facing the exact same restrictions you are. I understand having ground out 630+ CP. You want to be able to use that CP....but if you are honest with yourself, what you really want is to use your CP to gain an advantage over your lower CP enemy. Non-CP campaigns take that advantage away entirely so you really are reduced to player skill. Proc sets are neither here nor there...anyone can use them and equalize the "burst" playing field, or choose to use something else that is more generally useful. Let them kill CP in PvP entirely, it will only help.

nonsense. How can anyone use them? What is the viper set for magicka? What I would really use CP for is to be able to survive against procs. No one cares about CP of others. But when surprise attack spam kills me with all heals and shields up - that's a problem. Spam is too much of a word, it took just a few hits.

But yeah, no choice. Have to play no cp because battlegrounds are no cp.

If you are constantly being killed by Viper procs, maybe you should use some resist poison enchants. Do you not use Magicka Proc sets? Ilambris? Grothdar? Skoria? You are complaining about being ganked and dying in a few hits? That has ALWAYS been the case, proc sets or no. If you are dying too fast...increase your survivability with heavy armor, resistance glyphs, maybe a shield play enchant. There are things you can do. What you really want is to not have to adapt your build to whatever the meta currently is, you would rather just complain until they adapt the meta to your build. Viper deals 3360(battle spirit debuff applied) damage in PvP every 4 seconds...or a whopping 840 DPS non crit. If you are taking more damage than that from it, you need to increase your crit resistance, poison resistance, or both. 840 DPS non-crit just does not seem OP to me. In other words, its really not the viper proc that is killing you, its that you have a squishy build. Strategic blocking will also do wonders. I die in PvP quite often, its PvP, it happens, nerfing procs wont change that. Whats the next thing you are going to complain about to get it nerfed? So a nightblade was able to kill you...no big deal, nightblades are squishy...you rez and go back and kill him next time. If you think PvP isnt going to be dangerous and tough to survive...well, I am not sure what game you have been playing.

Dude 840 viper proc? What game are u playing?

I have 28k resist on both bars on my stam dk physical and spell and i never seen a viper proc under 2k..

Nice try tho

Maybe you dont know what DPS means...its DAMAGE PER SECOND 3360/4 second viper cooldown=840 DPS

Though to be truthful, with 24k Resists I have never seen a viper proc OVER 3100. I suppose its possible, but the average seems to be 2500...so people are whining and crying about a 2500 hit on their death recap. How is this any different than a couple of light attacks? A heavy attack? Flame Clench? Force Pulse? Degeneration? Its just one more source of relatively little damage. Remove Viper from the game entirely and it wouldnt make much difference.

Potenza · June 2017

Non CP WAS good before Morrowind dropped.

Joy_Division · June 2017

josiahva wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

As someone with max CP, I have to say I like non-CP campaigns better. The proc sets may or may not be an issue in BGs(I havent played there yet) but they arent in Cyrodiil in general. In non-CP you actually have to play better to survive. Siege hits harder, you have fewer resources, etc. At the same time though it doesnt matter because your enemies are facing the exact same restrictions you are. I understand having ground out 630+ CP. You want to be able to use that CP....but if you are honest with yourself, what you really want is to use your CP to gain an advantage over your lower CP enemy. Non-CP campaigns take that advantage away entirely so you really are reduced to player skill. Proc sets are neither here nor there...anyone can use them and equalize the "burst" playing field, or choose to use something else that is more generally useful. Let them kill CP in PvP entirely, it will only help.

nonsense. How can anyone use them? What is the viper set for magicka? What I would really use CP for is to be able to survive against procs. No one cares about CP of others. But when surprise attack spam kills me with all heals and shields up - that's a problem. Spam is too much of a word, it took just a few hits.

But yeah, no choice. Have to play no cp because battlegrounds are no cp.

If you are constantly being killed by Viper procs, maybe you should use some resist poison enchants. Do you not use Magicka Proc sets? Ilambris? Grothdar? Skoria? You are complaining about being ganked and dying in a few hits? That has ALWAYS been the case, proc sets or no. If you are dying too fast...increase your survivability with heavy armor, resistance glyphs, maybe a shield play enchant. There are things you can do. What you really want is to not have to adapt your build to whatever the meta currently is, you would rather just complain until they adapt the meta to your build. Viper deals 3360(battle spirit debuff applied) damage in PvP every 4 seconds...or a whopping 840 DPS non crit. If you are taking more damage than that from it, you need to increase your crit resistance, poison resistance, or both. 840 DPS non-crit just does not seem OP to me. In other words, its really not the viper proc that is killing you, its that you have a squishy build. Strategic blocking will also do wonders. I die in PvP quite often, its PvP, it happens, nerfing procs wont change that. Whats the next thing you are going to complain about to get it nerfed? So a nightblade was able to kill you...no big deal, nightblades are squishy...you rez and go back and kill him next time. If you think PvP isnt going to be dangerous and tough to survive...well, I am not sure what game you have been playing.

I mean no offense as you are just trying to help, however what you have written here is theoretical and falls apart in actual competitive PvP.

It's not the DPS Viper does, it's the instant and invisible burst damage on top of other highly damaging skills.
A poison resistance glyph offers a trivial amount of resistance against a single element at an unacceptable opportunity cost as you only have 3 jewelry enchants and there are much more powerful ones available.
Illambirs I can move out of, Grothdar is jsut a small avoidable DoT. Skoria is decent, but I am warned when I will be hit. Each of these, and other magicka proc sets, are not on the same level as Viper, Red mountain, and Poisonous Serpent.

Of course PvP is dangerous and death is common in Cyrodiil, though not everyone dies "quite often". The best way to die less is not chasing obscure and inefficient defenses like Poison resist glyph, rather a set like Wizard's Riposte that reduces all damage (including Poison!) by a lot more, respecting the power Viper has (it's much stronger than 840 DPS in a PvP environment), and that most magicka procs are good Vs. stationary PvE mobs but not human opponents that move and heal themselves

josiahva · June 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

As someone with max CP, I have to say I like non-CP campaigns better. The proc sets may or may not be an issue in BGs(I havent played there yet) but they arent in Cyrodiil in general. In non-CP you actually have to play better to survive. Siege hits harder, you have fewer resources, etc. At the same time though it doesnt matter because your enemies are facing the exact same restrictions you are. I understand having ground out 630+ CP. You want to be able to use that CP....but if you are honest with yourself, what you really want is to use your CP to gain an advantage over your lower CP enemy. Non-CP campaigns take that advantage away entirely so you really are reduced to player skill. Proc sets are neither here nor there...anyone can use them and equalize the "burst" playing field, or choose to use something else that is more generally useful. Let them kill CP in PvP entirely, it will only help.

nonsense. How can anyone use them? What is the viper set for magicka? What I would really use CP for is to be able to survive against procs. No one cares about CP of others. But when surprise attack spam kills me with all heals and shields up - that's a problem. Spam is too much of a word, it took just a few hits.

But yeah, no choice. Have to play no cp because battlegrounds are no cp.

If you are constantly being killed by Viper procs, maybe you should use some resist poison enchants. Do you not use Magicka Proc sets? Ilambris? Grothdar? Skoria? You are complaining about being ganked and dying in a few hits? That has ALWAYS been the case, proc sets or no. If you are dying too fast...increase your survivability with heavy armor, resistance glyphs, maybe a shield play enchant. There are things you can do. What you really want is to not have to adapt your build to whatever the meta currently is, you would rather just complain until they adapt the meta to your build. Viper deals 3360(battle spirit debuff applied) damage in PvP every 4 seconds...or a whopping 840 DPS non crit. If you are taking more damage than that from it, you need to increase your crit resistance, poison resistance, or both. 840 DPS non-crit just does not seem OP to me. In other words, its really not the viper proc that is killing you, its that you have a squishy build. Strategic blocking will also do wonders. I die in PvP quite often, its PvP, it happens, nerfing procs wont change that. Whats the next thing you are going to complain about to get it nerfed? So a nightblade was able to kill you...no big deal, nightblades are squishy...you rez and go back and kill him next time. If you think PvP isnt going to be dangerous and tough to survive...well, I am not sure what game you have been playing.

I mean no offense as you are just trying to help, however what you have written here is theoretical and falls apart in actual competitive PvP.
It's not the DPS Viper does, it's the instant and invisible burst damage on top of other highly damaging skills.

A poison resistance glyph offers a trivial amount of resistance against a single element at an unacceptable opportunity cost as you only have 3 jewelry enchants and there are much more powerful ones available.

Illambirs I can move out of, Grothdar is jsut a small avoidable DoT. Skoria is decent, but I am warned when I will be hit. Each of these, and other magicka proc sets, are not on the same level as Viper, Red mountain, and Poisonous Serpent.

Of course PvP is dangerous and death is common in Cyrodiil, though not everyone dies "quite often". The best way to die less is not chasing obscure and inefficient defenses like Poison resist glyph, rather a set like Wizard's Riposte that reduces all damage (including Poison!) by a lot more, respecting the power Viper has (it's much stronger than 840 DPS in a PvP environment), and that most magicka procs are good Vs. stationary PvE mobs but not human opponents that move and heal themselves

This is true enough, but the basic numbers dont lie...its 840 DPS or 3360 burst. I find that its rare that a viper proc will kill me. Its far more likely that I will die from not getting out of the way of a destro staff ult in time, or any number of other skills. My point is that there is plenty of death and destruction going around in PvP and Viper/Red Mountain procs are way down the list of most dangerous things in PvP. I will admit there arent any magicka sets(non-monster) like Viper...unless you count Noble Duelist/Way of Martial Knowledge...but they will only raise DPS on proc, not burst(Way of Martial knowledge will actually raise burst damage if played right...as a proc directly before Jesus Beam, destro staff ult, etc, but its hard to hit it exactly as you want so its generally more useful if using it to use it directly before a DoT). In large scale PvP as a stam build I would actually rather run Heem-Jaas Retribution than Viper, but thats just me, a boost to base stats(even a proc boost to base stats) is just more useful to me. To be truthful I wouldn't even care if they removed Viper from the game entirely, its just not high on my priority list of PvP issues.

DisgracefulMind · June 2017

josiahva wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

As someone with max CP, I have to say I like non-CP campaigns better. The proc sets may or may not be an issue in BGs(I havent played there yet) but they arent in Cyrodiil in general. In non-CP you actually have to play better to survive. Siege hits harder, you have fewer resources, etc. At the same time though it doesnt matter because your enemies are facing the exact same restrictions you are. I understand having ground out 630+ CP. You want to be able to use that CP....but if you are honest with yourself, what you really want is to use your CP to gain an advantage over your lower CP enemy. Non-CP campaigns take that advantage away entirely so you really are reduced to player skill. Proc sets are neither here nor there...anyone can use them and equalize the "burst" playing field, or choose to use something else that is more generally useful. Let them kill CP in PvP entirely, it will only help.

nonsense. How can anyone use them? What is the viper set for magicka? What I would really use CP for is to be able to survive against procs. No one cares about CP of others. But when surprise attack spam kills me with all heals and shields up - that's a problem. Spam is too much of a word, it took just a few hits.

But yeah, no choice. Have to play no cp because battlegrounds are no cp.

If you are constantly being killed by Viper procs, maybe you should use some resist poison enchants. Do you not use Magicka Proc sets? Ilambris? Grothdar? Skoria? You are complaining about being ganked and dying in a few hits? That has ALWAYS been the case, proc sets or no. If you are dying too fast...increase your survivability with heavy armor, resistance glyphs, maybe a shield play enchant. There are things you can do. What you really want is to not have to adapt your build to whatever the meta currently is, you would rather just complain until they adapt the meta to your build. Viper deals 3360(battle spirit debuff applied) damage in PvP every 4 seconds...or a whopping 840 DPS non crit. If you are taking more damage than that from it, you need to increase your crit resistance, poison resistance, or both. 840 DPS non-crit just does not seem OP to me. In other words, its really not the viper proc that is killing you, its that you have a squishy build. Strategic blocking will also do wonders. I die in PvP quite often, its PvP, it happens, nerfing procs wont change that. Whats the next thing you are going to complain about to get it nerfed? So a nightblade was able to kill you...no big deal, nightblades are squishy...you rez and go back and kill him next time. If you think PvP isnt going to be dangerous and tough to survive...well, I am not sure what game you have been playing.

I mean no offense as you are just trying to help, however what you have written here is theoretical and falls apart in actual competitive PvP.
It's not the DPS Viper does, it's the instant and invisible burst damage on top of other highly damaging skills.

A poison resistance glyph offers a trivial amount of resistance against a single element at an unacceptable opportunity cost as you only have 3 jewelry enchants and there are much more powerful ones available.

Illambirs I can move out of, Grothdar is jsut a small avoidable DoT. Skoria is decent, but I am warned when I will be hit. Each of these, and other magicka proc sets, are not on the same level as Viper, Red mountain, and Poisonous Serpent.

Of course PvP is dangerous and death is common in Cyrodiil, though not everyone dies "quite often". The best way to die less is not chasing obscure and inefficient defenses like Poison resist glyph, rather a set like Wizard's Riposte that reduces all damage (including Poison!) by a lot more, respecting the power Viper has (it's much stronger than 840 DPS in a PvP environment), and that most magicka procs are good Vs. stationary PvE mobs but not human opponents that move and heal themselves

This is true enough, but the basic numbers dont lie...its 840 DPS or 3360 burst. I find that its rare that a viper proc will kill me. Its far more likely that I will die from not getting out of the way of a destro staff ult in time, or any number of other skills. My point is that there is plenty of death and destruction going around in PvP and Viper/Red Mountain procs are way down the list of most dangerous things in PvP. I will admit there arent any magicka sets(non-monster) like Viper...unless you count Noble Duelist/Way of Martial Knowledge...but they will only raise DPS on proc, not burst(Way of Martial knowledge will actually raise burst damage if played right...as a proc directly before Jesus Beam, destro staff ult, etc, but its hard to hit it exactly as you want so its generally more useful if using it to use it directly before a DoT). In large scale PvP as a stam build I would actually rather run Heem-Jaas Retribution than Viper, but thats just me, a boost to base stats(even a proc boost to base stats) is just more useful to me. To be truthful I wouldn't even care if they removed Viper from the game entirely, its just not high on my priority list of PvP issues.

Hahaha, so the comment I bolded, I'm going to expand on that.

I have an AR50 Magicka Templar, so I know EXACTLY how lethal my Magicka Templar is with Skoria on. So I have an AR31 Magicka Sorc (2 actually!), and I know exactly how lethal it can be as well. So then I have my Stamina NB, which I have played with and without procs with and either is fine, but the increase in how lethal a Stamina Nightblade can be with procs is HUGE. There is no way that Viper is way down the list of the most dangerous things in PvP. It's incredibly strong. That combined with Selene's, I mean, the damage is just crazy. It is a huge issue. The reason why so many people run Viper is because it's literally one of the strongest sets for Stamina. You can choose to not run it for your own "honorable" reasons, but you end up gimping yourself. It's dumb how strong it is.

For large scale, I guess I can understand why you would run something else, but, honestly, Stamina shines in small to medium groups, which is what I'm directly talking about.

josiahva · June 2017

Selenes proc I have no problem avoiding at all. You are correct that a Viper proc is powerful for a stamblade ganker...or in a 1v1. On the other hand...stamblades are especially squishy. Yesterday I was riding in on Sotha Sil to defend BRK on a new toon with a horse with a whopping 30 speed, no stam upgrades. Got ganked by a nightblade...knocked off the horse with the ridiculously long horse CC(something that should DEFINATELY be addressed before the Viper proc) and Viper procced while I was on the ground for 2870. I got up and proceded to kill the ganker without issue, he melted as soon as his attempted gank failed. I was playing a heavy armor DK with the only heals slotted at the time being burning embers and the power lash heal. So OP? Not at all...that 2870 addition to burst still didnt allow him to kill me.

As for me not using Viper...my reasons arent honorable at all, never claimed they were. I just find base stat boost more useful...but then, I dont gank either...or rather, if I am ganking, I dont build around ganking with sets and skills that maximize burst damage.

Joy_Division · June 2017

LegacyDM wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

ZOS did confirm that the removal of CP during their performance test week made very little difference. Lag on campaigns has nothing to do with CP or non CP.. I have been playing Kyne (non cp below lvl 50), leveling new players and even with populations at 1 bar or less, as soon as there are 30-40 players fighting at the flags in a keep, there is lag.

And on console, maybe just indicative of the type of player that chooses console over PC, non CP campaigns are always the least used, even when there are large queues for Vivec. People earn their CP and want to use them, or get used to playing with them and find it hard to adapt without them.

And what I mean by the type of player, as I am one, is someone who turns on the console, puts in a disc and wants to start playing - rather than youtubing how to play videos, looking up what everyone else does and googling best builds.

link? I haven't seen anything from ZOS releasing the results of the tests. I will tell you that in my own personal tests I have no lag whatsoever on non cp. I can experience a large sized battle on sotha sil during prime time with no lag and then have a similar sized battle on vivec with extreme lag. The result is night and day. I also had no lag at all during the no cp week.

Look, you forum warriors can say what you want, but In my experience, there is a huge difference regardless of population. Somethings bogging the servers down and Brian makes a strong case that the server code was never designed to handle the increased calculations from cp in concentrated quadrants.

55 minutes 5 seconds.

You denigrate others as "forum warriors," but you are equally dismissive of those who do not share the same opinion as you.

Zvorgin · June 2017

josiahva wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

As someone with max CP, I have to say I like non-CP campaigns better. The proc sets may or may not be an issue in BGs(I havent played there yet) but they arent in Cyrodiil in general. In non-CP you actually have to play better to survive. Siege hits harder, you have fewer resources, etc. At the same time though it doesnt matter because your enemies are facing the exact same restrictions you are. I understand having ground out 630+ CP. You want to be able to use that CP....but if you are honest with yourself, what you really want is to use your CP to gain an advantage over your lower CP enemy. Non-CP campaigns take that advantage away entirely so you really are reduced to player skill. Proc sets are neither here nor there...anyone can use them and equalize the "burst" playing field, or choose to use something else that is more generally useful. Let them kill CP in PvP entirely, it will only help.

nonsense. How can anyone use them? What is the viper set for magicka? What I would really use CP for is to be able to survive against procs. No one cares about CP of others. But when surprise attack spam kills me with all heals and shields up - that's a problem. Spam is too much of a word, it took just a few hits.

But yeah, no choice. Have to play no cp because battlegrounds are no cp.

If you are constantly being killed by Viper procs, maybe you should use some resist poison enchants. Do you not use Magicka Proc sets? Ilambris? Grothdar? Skoria? You are complaining about being ganked and dying in a few hits? That has ALWAYS been the case, proc sets or no. If you are dying too fast...increase your survivability with heavy armor, resistance glyphs, maybe a shield play enchant. There are things you can do. What you really want is to not have to adapt your build to whatever the meta currently is, you would rather just complain until they adapt the meta to your build. Viper deals 3360(battle spirit debuff applied) damage in PvP every 4 seconds...or a whopping 840 DPS non crit. If you are taking more damage than that from it, you need to increase your crit resistance, poison resistance, or both. 840 DPS non-crit just does not seem OP to me. In other words, its really not the viper proc that is killing you, its that you have a squishy build. Strategic blocking will also do wonders. I die in PvP quite often, its PvP, it happens, nerfing procs wont change that. Whats the next thing you are going to complain about to get it nerfed? So a nightblade was able to kill you...no big deal, nightblades are squishy...you rez and go back and kill him next time. If you think PvP isnt going to be dangerous and tough to survive...well, I am not sure what game you have been playing.

Dude 840 viper proc? What game are u playing?

I have 28k resist on both bars on my stam dk physical and spell and i never seen a viper proc under 2k..

Nice try tho

Maybe you dont know what DPS means...its DAMAGE PER SECOND 3360/4 second viper cooldown=840 DPS

Though to be truthful, with 24k Resists I have never seen a viper proc OVER 3100. I suppose its possible, but the average seems to be 2500...so people are whining and crying about a 2500 hit on their death recap. How is this any different than a couple of light attacks? A heavy attack? Flame Clench? Force Pulse? Degeneration? Its just one more source of relatively little damage. Remove Viper from the game entirely and it wouldnt make much difference.

Why divide Viper by 4 seconds? This isn't PvE where dps matters, it is PvP where burst is what matters. All the damage types you listed still happen, they just have Viper stacked on for performing the same actions. This entire argument is nonsense.

andreasranasen · June 2017

LegacyDM wrote: »

Sounds like you need cp for a crutch. L2p? Keep Enjoying your lag filled cp cancer fest. I'll keep enjoying my lag free non cp which is much more balanced.

You mean your DEAD campaigns?

Alpheu5 · June 2017

LegacyDM wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

ZOS did confirm that the removal of CP during their performance test week made very little difference. Lag on campaigns has nothing to do with CP or non CP.. I have been playing Kyne (non cp below lvl 50), leveling new players and even with populations at 1 bar or less, as soon as there are 30-40 players fighting at the flags in a keep, there is lag.

And on console, maybe just indicative of the type of player that chooses console over PC, non CP campaigns are always the least used, even when there are large queues for Vivec. People earn their CP and want to use them, or get used to playing with them and find it hard to adapt without them.

And what I mean by the type of player, as I am one, is someone who turns on the console, puts in a disc and wants to start playing - rather than youtubing how to play videos, looking up what everyone else does and googling best builds.

link? I haven't seen anything from ZOS releasing the results of the tests. I will tell you that in my own personal tests I have no lag whatsoever on non cp. I can experience a large sized battle on sotha sil during prime time with no lag and then have a similar sized battle on vivec with extreme lag. The result is night and day. I also had no lag at all during the no cp week.

Look, you forum warriors can say what you want, but In my experience, there is a huge difference regardless of population. Somethings bogging the servers down and Brian makes a strong case that the server code was never designed to handle the increased calculations from cp in concentrated quadrants.

Regardless of what you may think, it was stated by either Brian or Rich in an episode of ESO live that the no-CP week showed that CP had an infinitesimal to null impact on server performance. Handily enough, the actual clip on Twitch from that time period is either buried in one of the three duplicate Warden preview videos, or it got deleted/removed. The playerbase saturated itself with wishful thinking and that wishful thinking eventually established itself as a false truth.

josiahva · June 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

As someone with max CP, I have to say I like non-CP campaigns better. The proc sets may or may not be an issue in BGs(I havent played there yet) but they arent in Cyrodiil in general. In non-CP you actually have to play better to survive. Siege hits harder, you have fewer resources, etc. At the same time though it doesnt matter because your enemies are facing the exact same restrictions you are. I understand having ground out 630+ CP. You want to be able to use that CP....but if you are honest with yourself, what you really want is to use your CP to gain an advantage over your lower CP enemy. Non-CP campaigns take that advantage away entirely so you really are reduced to player skill. Proc sets are neither here nor there...anyone can use them and equalize the "burst" playing field, or choose to use something else that is more generally useful. Let them kill CP in PvP entirely, it will only help.

nonsense. How can anyone use them? What is the viper set for magicka? What I would really use CP for is to be able to survive against procs. No one cares about CP of others. But when surprise attack spam kills me with all heals and shields up - that's a problem. Spam is too much of a word, it took just a few hits.

But yeah, no choice. Have to play no cp because battlegrounds are no cp.

If you are constantly being killed by Viper procs, maybe you should use some resist poison enchants. Do you not use Magicka Proc sets? Ilambris? Grothdar? Skoria? You are complaining about being ganked and dying in a few hits? That has ALWAYS been the case, proc sets or no. If you are dying too fast...increase your survivability with heavy armor, resistance glyphs, maybe a shield play enchant. There are things you can do. What you really want is to not have to adapt your build to whatever the meta currently is, you would rather just complain until they adapt the meta to your build. Viper deals 3360(battle spirit debuff applied) damage in PvP every 4 seconds...or a whopping 840 DPS non crit. If you are taking more damage than that from it, you need to increase your crit resistance, poison resistance, or both. 840 DPS non-crit just does not seem OP to me. In other words, its really not the viper proc that is killing you, its that you have a squishy build. Strategic blocking will also do wonders. I die in PvP quite often, its PvP, it happens, nerfing procs wont change that. Whats the next thing you are going to complain about to get it nerfed? So a nightblade was able to kill you...no big deal, nightblades are squishy...you rez and go back and kill him next time. If you think PvP isnt going to be dangerous and tough to survive...well, I am not sure what game you have been playing.

Dude 840 viper proc? What game are u playing?

I have 28k resist on both bars on my stam dk physical and spell and i never seen a viper proc under 2k..

Nice try tho

Maybe you dont know what DPS means...its DAMAGE PER SECOND 3360/4 second viper cooldown=840 DPS

Though to be truthful, with 24k Resists I have never seen a viper proc OVER 3100. I suppose its possible, but the average seems to be 2500...so people are whining and crying about a 2500 hit on their death recap. How is this any different than a couple of light attacks? A heavy attack? Flame Clench? Force Pulse? Degeneration? Its just one more source of relatively little damage. Remove Viper from the game entirely and it wouldnt make much difference.

Why divide Viper by 4 seconds? This isn't PvE where dps matters, it is PvP where burst is what matters. All the damage types you listed still happen, they just have Viper stacked on for performing the same actions. This entire argument is nonsense.

Burst only matters if you can deal enough burst in a short enough time to power through their heals/shields...so in the case of a failed nightblade gank...if they failed the gank its the DPS that counts.

As for a nonsense argument...I dont see you complaining about vicious death, which is ALSO a proc, which ALSO happens IN ADDITION to all the regular attacks. I dont see you complaining about weapon enchants which ALSO proc, which ALSO happens in addition to regular attacks. I dont see you complaining about Fassallas Guile...which is a different type of proc...but also significantly affects combat...as much or more than Viper. You are complaining that PvP is dangerous in the end. So say Viper goes away...then what? Is it going to be bowtards with poison injections and lethal arrow next? Mages wrath explosion? Are you going to cry about not being able to kill a sorc because he streaks away? Do you see the point here? There will always be SOMETHING that is killing you more often than anything else in PvP. Its been like this ever since I have played(3+ years) nerfing proc sets wont change a thing...all that ever happens is people start whining about something else...and then something else...ad nauseum. If you PvP, you will be unhappy, you will die, you will be unable to kill other people...there will always be some reason, no matter what changes they make to it, you will never be happy with it. Maybe we shpould remove all abilities and sets with ANY bonus from PvP...then it would be balanced right? if you can do nothing but drink potions and light attack?

DisgracefulMind · June 2017

josiahva wrote: »

Selenes proc I have no problem avoiding at all. You are correct that a Viper proc is powerful for a stamblade ganker...or in a 1v1. On the other hand...stamblades are especially squishy. Yesterday I was riding in on Sotha Sil to defend BRK on a new toon with a horse with a whopping 30 speed, no stam upgrades. Got ganked by a nightblade...knocked off the horse with the ridiculously long horse CC(something that should DEFINATELY be addressed before the Viper proc) and Viper procced while I was on the ground for 2870. I got up and proceded to kill the ganker without issue, he melted as soon as his attempted gank failed. I was playing a heavy armor DK with the only heals slotted at the time being burning embers and the power lash heal. So OP? Not at all...that 2870 addition to burst still didnt allow him to kill me.

As for me not using Viper...my reasons arent honorable at all, never claimed they were. I just find base stat boost more useful...but then, I dont gank either...or rather, if I am ganking, I dont build around ganking with sets and skills that maximize burst damage.

Not all stamina nightblades are gankers. I'm not discussing gankers. I'm discussing open world stamina specs, almost all of which have huge benefits from equipping Viper. I wasn't directly talking about Nightblades either, but since I play a stamina Nightblade I was using it as reference. Any class can equip Viper and become equally as lethal.

So you're playing a tanky chatacter and you were hard to gank. Okay. That's pretty normal, moving on.

Against squishier specs is where procs shine. It's loads of free damage for doing nothing at all. And THAT is what I think most people have the issues with. Completely free burst for only having to hit one button just because you equipped a set. It's not just Viper, either, there are plenty of sets that are problematic. Unfortunately, it's the stamina sets that are typically more cancerous than the magicka ones.

Ehhh, I wasn't even saying "you" directly as in "you don't where it for honor blah blah", but mostly addressing it to the community.

Let's put it this way, if 95%+ of players are equipping a set, it's because it's overpowered. Been this way since launch.

Joy_Division · June 2017

josiahva wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

As someone with max CP, I have to say I like non-CP campaigns better. The proc sets may or may not be an issue in BGs(I havent played there yet) but they arent in Cyrodiil in general. In non-CP you actually have to play better to survive. Siege hits harder, you have fewer resources, etc. At the same time though it doesnt matter because your enemies are facing the exact same restrictions you are. I understand having ground out 630+ CP. You want to be able to use that CP....but if you are honest with yourself, what you really want is to use your CP to gain an advantage over your lower CP enemy. Non-CP campaigns take that advantage away entirely so you really are reduced to player skill. Proc sets are neither here nor there...anyone can use them and equalize the "burst" playing field, or choose to use something else that is more generally useful. Let them kill CP in PvP entirely, it will only help.

nonsense. How can anyone use them? What is the viper set for magicka? What I would really use CP for is to be able to survive against procs. No one cares about CP of others. But when surprise attack spam kills me with all heals and shields up - that's a problem. Spam is too much of a word, it took just a few hits.

But yeah, no choice. Have to play no cp because battlegrounds are no cp.

If you are constantly being killed by Viper procs, maybe you should use some resist poison enchants. Do you not use Magicka Proc sets? Ilambris? Grothdar? Skoria? You are complaining about being ganked and dying in a few hits? That has ALWAYS been the case, proc sets or no. If you are dying too fast...increase your survivability with heavy armor, resistance glyphs, maybe a shield play enchant. There are things you can do. What you really want is to not have to adapt your build to whatever the meta currently is, you would rather just complain until they adapt the meta to your build. Viper deals 3360(battle spirit debuff applied) damage in PvP every 4 seconds...or a whopping 840 DPS non crit. If you are taking more damage than that from it, you need to increase your crit resistance, poison resistance, or both. 840 DPS non-crit just does not seem OP to me. In other words, its really not the viper proc that is killing you, its that you have a squishy build. Strategic blocking will also do wonders. I die in PvP quite often, its PvP, it happens, nerfing procs wont change that. Whats the next thing you are going to complain about to get it nerfed? So a nightblade was able to kill you...no big deal, nightblades are squishy...you rez and go back and kill him next time. If you think PvP isnt going to be dangerous and tough to survive...well, I am not sure what game you have been playing.

Dude 840 viper proc? What game are u playing?

I have 28k resist on both bars on my stam dk physical and spell and i never seen a viper proc under 2k..

Nice try tho

Maybe you dont know what DPS means...its DAMAGE PER SECOND 3360/4 second viper cooldown=840 DPS

Though to be truthful, with 24k Resists I have never seen a viper proc OVER 3100. I suppose its possible, but the average seems to be 2500...so people are whining and crying about a 2500 hit on their death recap. How is this any different than a couple of light attacks? A heavy attack? Flame Clench? Force Pulse? Degeneration? Its just one more source of relatively little damage. Remove Viper from the game entirely and it wouldnt make much difference.

Why divide Viper by 4 seconds? This isn't PvE where dps matters, it is PvP where burst is what matters. All the damage types you listed still happen, they just have Viper stacked on for performing the same actions. This entire argument is nonsense.

Burst only matters if you can deal enough burst in a short enough time to power through their heals/shields...so in the case of a failed nightblade gank...if they failed the gank its the DPS that counts.

As for a nonsense argument...I dont see you complaining about vicious death, which is ALSO a proc, which ALSO happens IN ADDITION to all the regular attacks. I dont see you complaining about weapon enchants which ALSO proc, which ALSO happens in addition to regular attacks. I dont see you complaining about Fassallas Guile...which is a different type of proc...but also significantly affects combat...as much or more than Viper. You are complaining that PvP is dangerous in the end. So say Viper goes away...then what? Is it going to be bowtards with poison injections and lethal arrow next? Mages wrath explosion? Are you going to cry about not being able to kill a sorc because he streaks away? Do you see the point here? There will always be SOMETHING that is killing you more often than anything else in PvP. Its been like this ever since I have played(3+ years) nerfing proc sets wont change a thing...all that ever happens is people start whining about something else...and then something else...ad nauseum. If you PvP, you will be unhappy, you will die, you will be unable to kill other people...there will always be some reason, no matter what changes they make to it, you will never be happy with it. Maybe we shpould remove all abilities and sets with ANY bonus from PvP...then it would be balanced right? if you can do nothing but drink potions and light attack?

I don't complain about vicious death because the times I die to the proc is my own fault for clumping together with inexperienced players. It is otherwise easily avoided. Also, while I think it's a dumb set, in an AoE cap environment that we play in and with all the high powered heals available, it serves a necessary function for killing "stack on crown" ball groups.

I don't complain about Fasallas Guile because that set got nerfed and minor defile is just an inconvenient debuff, that I usually avoid simply because most of the "tank" players who wear this set just hold block and are best avoided in the first place.

I don't complain about weapon enchants because they do not proc on all attacks (only basic attacks and weapon based abilities), I'd actually rather get hit with one than a resource draining poison, and there is a argument that generic spell/weapon enchants are better. I do dislike Oblivion damage enchants though.

I don't complain that PvP is dangerous or that I die. PvP needs to be dangerous. I do think that dying to invisible and uncounterable burst damage on demand makes for poor gameplay. I wont complain about "bowtards" as long as the server doesn't delay and I get hit with 3 snipes at once. I won't complain about sorcs streaking away because that ability has been nerfed to the ground.

Yes, there will always be something that kills me more than anything else. As long as that something has counters, can be reasonably be avoided/mitigated, or forces the user to adapt a necessary disadvantage, then generally I am OK with dying.

Also, I am rarely unhappy when I PvP. In fact, far more often than not, I am happy and having a good time

Enslaved · June 2017

This thread name shows (again) that great majority of ppl who play ESO are completely clueless. Enjoy your non cp cheese.

Artis · June 2017

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

As someone with max CP, I have to say I like non-CP campaigns better. The proc sets may or may not be an issue in BGs(I havent played there yet) but they arent in Cyrodiil in general. In non-CP you actually have to play better to survive. Siege hits harder, you have fewer resources, etc. At the same time though it doesnt matter because your enemies are facing the exact same restrictions you are. I understand having ground out 630+ CP. You want to be able to use that CP....but if you are honest with yourself, what you really want is to use your CP to gain an advantage over your lower CP enemy. Non-CP campaigns take that advantage away entirely so you really are reduced to player skill. Proc sets are neither here nor there...anyone can use them and equalize the "burst" playing field, or choose to use something else that is more generally useful. Let them kill CP in PvP entirely, it will only help.

nonsense. How can anyone use them? What is the viper set for magicka? What I would really use CP for is to be able to survive against procs. No one cares about CP of others. But when surprise attack spam kills me with all heals and shields up - that's a problem. Spam is too much of a word, it took just a few hits.

But yeah, no choice. Have to play no cp because battlegrounds are no cp.

If you are constantly being killed by Viper procs, maybe you should use some resist poison enchants. Do you not use Magicka Proc sets? Ilambris? Grothdar? Skoria? You are complaining about being ganked and dying in a few hits? That has ALWAYS been the case, proc sets or no. If you are dying too fast...increase your survivability with heavy armor, resistance glyphs, maybe a shield play enchant. There are things you can do. What you really want is to not have to adapt your build to whatever the meta currently is, you would rather just complain until they adapt the meta to your build. Viper deals 3360(battle spirit debuff applied) damage in PvP every 4 seconds...or a whopping 840 DPS non crit. If you are taking more damage than that from it, you need to increase your crit resistance, poison resistance, or both. 840 DPS non-crit just does not seem OP to me. In other words, its really not the viper proc that is killing you, its that you have a squishy build. Strategic blocking will also do wonders. I die in PvP quite often, its PvP, it happens, nerfing procs wont change that. Whats the next thing you are going to complain about to get it nerfed? So a nightblade was able to kill you...no big deal, nightblades are squishy...you rez and go back and kill him next time. If you think PvP isnt going to be dangerous and tough to survive...well, I am not sure what game you have been playing.

yawn. DPS is not applicable for pvp. 840 DPS? WHo cares? It takes 1-2 second and viper to proc together with tremor scale or selene. Adapt what? How? Go tank and not have any damage? My build is already adapted for all the sustain nerf. But proc builds don't care about sustain. My crit resistance is like 3k - all impen pieces + transmutation buff. Yet I take tons of damage. Oh but maybe you meant to say that LA shouldnt' exist in pvp unless you're a tanky class, right? Adapt as a mnb = go heavy and be useless but don't die? Btw no, used my 5H build in the beginning of morrowind. Not helpful at all. And don't you bring up skoria and grothdar. Those are monster sets. I asked about 5 piece sets so I can have 3 proc sets at once, like stamina build. Also, grothdar is not burst damage. It's just an aoe dot - it's visible too, can escape.

Oh and no, I am not talking about NBs or even ganks. I'm talking about any stam build using them and people just spamming attacks in your face when you have all defense up - like 4 hots + healing ward. This is BS. How much skill do you need to counter simple spam? And no, I do kill some of those players - the bad ones. Any decent player will leave you absolutely no chance. You die in a couple GCD - not enough time to do anything in most cases.

p.s. I know a cool solution. Add a set that returns all damage to an attacker if you take X damage in 2 seconds. That'd be fun to see.

This post isnt about nerfing proc sets clearly if u have 3k crit resis you are dumping too much cp into resistance that can go into reduce direct damage and phycial and spell.

What CP? There's no CP in battlegrounds.

"josiahva wrote: »

Burst only matters if you can deal enough burst in a short enough time to power through their heals/shields...so in the case of a failed nightblade gank...if they failed the gank its the DPS that counts.

I already explained to you how it happens. But you didn't comment on what I said. With or without gank a few attacks is enough to go through heals and shields in SECONDS. DPS only counts in long fights.

Drakkdjinn · June 2017

God I love this thread, so much QQ so little pew pew.

CP players obviously can't cope b/c they're not used to playing without CP. Proc sets are not a problem to anyone who's got a proper build in noCP, and yes magicka has plenty of proc sets too. Proc sets + resource poisons on the other hand, are a problematic combination; poisons are wayyy worse in noCP than any proc set.

So let me teach y'all some l2p tips on how to counter proc sets in noCP. Why not give it a try? It works for me -- nobody kills me 1v1 with proc sets, nobody, not since I took my toon into a CP campaign back when they could crit. Nobody. I don't even need to use Miats or nothing.

I am beastmode, and so can you -- here's how:

Step 1: Wear Heavy Armor. Very important. If you're not doing this in any PvP format, you don't know how to PvP properly.

Step 2: Wear. Heavy. Armor. The only class this does not apply to is magSorc b/c shield stacking is stronger than heavy armor anyway, or if you're ganking on a NB (in which case you have no right to complain about procsets since you've designed your build to be a glass cannon anyway). If your build/playstyle can't accomodate a heavy armor set in PvP, your build is bad. Period. This is the state of the game we live in, regardless of format. Live with it or go back to CP where you can get away with wearing crapola b/c your passive resists are artificially high.

Step 3: Block when you see an incoming gap closer. Block when you see a player wearing a proc set coming at you. If you're good enough you might even be able to ignore step 1 (Don't) if you can block stam classes consistently. Voila, you've just negated the entire point of the proctard build for the next several seconds, burst and/or heal as necessary while they run around useless and harmless. Or get some distance on them since procs are melee based if you're magicka and pew pew accordingly, you don't even need to position yourself properly at range to do deeps now unlike them scrappy no-skill proctards.

You're welcome.

Zvorgin · June 2017

josiahva wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

As someone with max CP, I have to say I like non-CP campaigns better. The proc sets may or may not be an issue in BGs(I havent played there yet) but they arent in Cyrodiil in general. In non-CP you actually have to play better to survive. Siege hits harder, you have fewer resources, etc. At the same time though it doesnt matter because your enemies are facing the exact same restrictions you are. I understand having ground out 630+ CP. You want to be able to use that CP....but if you are honest with yourself, what you really want is to use your CP to gain an advantage over your lower CP enemy. Non-CP campaigns take that advantage away entirely so you really are reduced to player skill. Proc sets are neither here nor there...anyone can use them and equalize the "burst" playing field, or choose to use something else that is more generally useful. Let them kill CP in PvP entirely, it will only help.

nonsense. How can anyone use them? What is the viper set for magicka? What I would really use CP for is to be able to survive against procs. No one cares about CP of others. But when surprise attack spam kills me with all heals and shields up - that's a problem. Spam is too much of a word, it took just a few hits.

But yeah, no choice. Have to play no cp because battlegrounds are no cp.

If you are constantly being killed by Viper procs, maybe you should use some resist poison enchants. Do you not use Magicka Proc sets? Ilambris? Grothdar? Skoria? You are complaining about being ganked and dying in a few hits? That has ALWAYS been the case, proc sets or no. If you are dying too fast...increase your survivability with heavy armor, resistance glyphs, maybe a shield play enchant. There are things you can do. What you really want is to not have to adapt your build to whatever the meta currently is, you would rather just complain until they adapt the meta to your build. Viper deals 3360(battle spirit debuff applied) damage in PvP every 4 seconds...or a whopping 840 DPS non crit. If you are taking more damage than that from it, you need to increase your crit resistance, poison resistance, or both. 840 DPS non-crit just does not seem OP to me. In other words, its really not the viper proc that is killing you, its that you have a squishy build. Strategic blocking will also do wonders. I die in PvP quite often, its PvP, it happens, nerfing procs wont change that. Whats the next thing you are going to complain about to get it nerfed? So a nightblade was able to kill you...no big deal, nightblades are squishy...you rez and go back and kill him next time. If you think PvP isnt going to be dangerous and tough to survive...well, I am not sure what game you have been playing.

Dude 840 viper proc? What game are u playing?

I have 28k resist on both bars on my stam dk physical and spell and i never seen a viper proc under 2k..

Nice try tho

Maybe you dont know what DPS means...its DAMAGE PER SECOND 3360/4 second viper cooldown=840 DPS

Though to be truthful, with 24k Resists I have never seen a viper proc OVER 3100. I suppose its possible, but the average seems to be 2500...so people are whining and crying about a 2500 hit on their death recap. How is this any different than a couple of light attacks? A heavy attack? Flame Clench? Force Pulse? Degeneration? Its just one more source of relatively little damage. Remove Viper from the game entirely and it wouldnt make much difference.

Why divide Viper by 4 seconds? This isn't PvE where dps matters, it is PvP where burst is what matters. All the damage types you listed still happen, they just have Viper stacked on for performing the same actions. This entire argument is nonsense.

Burst only matters if you can deal enough burst in a short enough time to power through their heals/shields...so in the case of a failed nightblade gank...if they failed the gank its the DPS that counts.

As for a nonsense argument...I dont see you complaining about vicious death, which is ALSO a proc, which ALSO happens IN ADDITION to all the regular attacks. I dont see you complaining about weapon enchants which ALSO proc, which ALSO happens in addition to regular attacks. I dont see you complaining about Fassallas Guile...which is a different type of proc...but also significantly affects combat...as much or more than Viper. You are complaining that PvP is dangerous in the end. So say Viper goes away...then what? Is it going to be bowtards with poison injections and lethal arrow next? Mages wrath explosion? Are you going to cry about not being able to kill a sorc because he streaks away? Do you see the point here? There will always be SOMETHING that is killing you more often than anything else in PvP. Its been like this ever since I have played(3+ years) nerfing proc sets wont change a thing...all that ever happens is people start whining about something else...and then something else...ad nauseum. If you PvP, you will be unhappy, you will die, you will be unable to kill other people...there will always be some reason, no matter what changes they make to it, you will never be happy with it. Maybe we shpould remove all abilities and sets with ANY bonus from PvP...then it would be balanced right? if you can do nothing but drink potions and light attack?

I was merely stating that dps as a reason to justify procs misses the point. I don't care about proc sets, they are fine in CP PvP. I use Skoria and BSW on my mDK. I think currently that CP PvP is the best it's been in the last year.

Zvorgin · June 2017

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

God I love this thread, so much QQ so little pew pew.

CP players obviously can't cope b/c they're not used to playing without CP. Proc sets are not a problem to anyone who's got a proper build in noCP, and yes magicka has plenty of proc sets too. Proc sets + resource poisons on the other hand, are a problematic combination; poisons are wayyy worse in noCP than any proc set.

No CP isn't fun because PvDoor isn't fun. Campaigns are dead on PS4 NA. I played it the first month, the lack of action is not fun.

Drakkdjinn · June 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

God I love this thread, so much QQ so little pew pew.

CP players obviously can't cope b/c they're not used to playing without CP. Proc sets are not a problem to anyone who's got a proper build in noCP, and yes magicka has plenty of proc sets too. Proc sets + resource poisons on the other hand, are a problematic combination; poisons are wayyy worse in noCP than any proc set.

No CP isn't fun because PvDoor isn't fun. Campaigns are dead on PS4 NA. I played it the first month, the lack of action is not fun.

I feel for you man, I really do, but your comment has exactly zero relevance with the topic at hand. Those campaigns are dead b/c consoles are terribly optimized for MMOs especially when a company like ZOS is at the wheel, if the forums are any indication the hardcore console population is only going to continue to decline

Zvorgin · June 2017

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

God I love this thread, so much QQ so little pew pew.

CP players obviously can't cope b/c they're not used to playing without CP. Proc sets are not a problem to anyone who's got a proper build in noCP, and yes magicka has plenty of proc sets too. Proc sets + resource poisons on the other hand, are a problematic combination; poisons are wayyy worse in noCP than any proc set.

No CP isn't fun because PvDoor isn't fun. Campaigns are dead on PS4 NA. I played it the first month, the lack of action is not fun.

I feel for you man, I really do, but your comment has exactly zero relevance with the topic at hand. Those campaigns are dead b/c consoles are terribly optimized for MMOs especially when a company like ZOS is at the wheel, if the forums are any indication the hardcore console population is only going to continue to decline

What? You said CP players couldn't cope and that's why they don't like no CP. I countered that people like CP because there is a population versus a dead campaign. Seems pretty relevant, also your comment about optimization is actually completely off base, Vivec stays pop locked pretty much all day.

Drakkdjinn · June 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

God I love this thread, so much QQ so little pew pew.

CP players obviously can't cope b/c they're not used to playing without CP. Proc sets are not a problem to anyone who's got a proper build in noCP, and yes magicka has plenty of proc sets too. Proc sets + resource poisons on the other hand, are a problematic combination; poisons are wayyy worse in noCP than any proc set.

No CP isn't fun because PvDoor isn't fun. Campaigns are dead on PS4 NA. I played it the first month, the lack of action is not fun.

I feel for you man, I really do, but your comment has exactly zero relevance with the topic at hand. Those campaigns are dead b/c consoles are terribly optimized for MMOs especially when a company like ZOS is at the wheel, if the forums are any indication the hardcore console population is only going to continue to decline

What? You said CP players couldn't cope and that's why they don't like no CP. I countered that people like CP because there is a population versus a dead campaign. Seems pretty relevant, also your comment about optimization is actually completely off base, Vivec stays pop locked pretty much all day.

Oh, well then..

0/10 reading comprehension. Please review thread title and see me after class.

Zvorgin · June 2017

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

God I love this thread, so much QQ so little pew pew.

CP players obviously can't cope b/c they're not used to playing without CP. Proc sets are not a problem to anyone who's got a proper build in noCP, and yes magicka has plenty of proc sets too. Proc sets + resource poisons on the other hand, are a problematic combination; poisons are wayyy worse in noCP than any proc set.

No CP isn't fun because PvDoor isn't fun. Campaigns are dead on PS4 NA. I played it the first month, the lack of action is not fun.

I feel for you man, I really do, but your comment has exactly zero relevance with the topic at hand. Those campaigns are dead b/c consoles are terribly optimized for MMOs especially when a company like ZOS is at the wheel, if the forums are any indication the hardcore console population is only going to continue to decline

What? You said CP players couldn't cope and that's why they don't like no CP. I countered that people like CP because there is a population versus a dead campaign. Seems pretty relevant, also your comment about optimization is actually completely off base, Vivec stays pop locked pretty much all day.

Oh, well then..

0/10 reading comprehension. Please review thread title and see me after class.

No CP was more balanced before sustain changes to CP, now CP is more balanced. That's obvious.

Drakkdjinn · June 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

God I love this thread, so much QQ so little pew pew.

CP players obviously can't cope b/c they're not used to playing without CP. Proc sets are not a problem to anyone who's got a proper build in noCP, and yes magicka has plenty of proc sets too. Proc sets + resource poisons on the other hand, are a problematic combination; poisons are wayyy worse in noCP than any proc set.

No CP isn't fun because PvDoor isn't fun. Campaigns are dead on PS4 NA. I played it the first month, the lack of action is not fun.

I feel for you man, I really do, but your comment has exactly zero relevance with the topic at hand. Those campaigns are dead b/c consoles are terribly optimized for MMOs especially when a company like ZOS is at the wheel, if the forums are any indication the hardcore console population is only going to continue to decline

What? You said CP players couldn't cope and that's why they don't like no CP. I countered that people like CP because there is a population versus a dead campaign. Seems pretty relevant, also your comment about optimization is actually completely off base, Vivec stays pop locked pretty much all day.

Oh, well then..

0/10 reading comprehension. Please review thread title and see me after class.

No CP was more balanced before sustain changes to CP, now CP is more balanced. That's obvious.

No, it's not obvious. Fortunately Basic arithmetic is: CP 160s in Vivec fighting CP 600s are obviously in an unbalanced campaign, even if it's a CP 599 vs a CP 600 fight it's is obvious imbalance that is measurable. 600 > 599, and in noCP; Zero = Zero.

CP is designed to be a place for accommodating unbalanced gameplay between characters of inherently different baseline strength lvls, noCP is designed to balance the field by making everyone's baseline equal --but it isn't quite balanced for many reasons that are independent of CP and not exclusive to either format -- certainly for none of the reasons cited here. Here there be no reasons, only CP QQ. If you were honestly -HONESTLY- seeking to play in the most balanced format possible, would you choose the format that is OBJECTIVELY designed to permit/reward imbalances in character strength, or the one that tries to balance the field by putting everyone at the same baseline but falls short b/c ZoS.

How's that for an obvious choice?

Silent_Majority · June 2017

Question-"Remember when people said non cp pvp is more balanced?"
Answer- Not really.

Drakkdjinn · July 2017

Silent_Majority wrote: »

Question-"Remember when people said non cp pvp is more balanced?"
Answer- Not really.

Nobody had to, its baked right into the formats.

Zvorgin · July 2017

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

God I love this thread, so much QQ so little pew pew.

CP players obviously can't cope b/c they're not used to playing without CP. Proc sets are not a problem to anyone who's got a proper build in noCP, and yes magicka has plenty of proc sets too. Proc sets + resource poisons on the other hand, are a problematic combination; poisons are wayyy worse in noCP than any proc set.

No CP isn't fun because PvDoor isn't fun. Campaigns are dead on PS4 NA. I played it the first month, the lack of action is not fun.

I feel for you man, I really do, but your comment has exactly zero relevance with the topic at hand. Those campaigns are dead b/c consoles are terribly optimized for MMOs especially when a company like ZOS is at the wheel, if the forums are any indication the hardcore console population is only going to continue to decline

What? You said CP players couldn't cope and that's why they don't like no CP. I countered that people like CP because there is a population versus a dead campaign. Seems pretty relevant, also your comment about optimization is actually completely off base, Vivec stays pop locked pretty much all day.

Oh, well then..

0/10 reading comprehension. Please review thread title and see me after class.

No CP was more balanced before sustain changes to CP, now CP is more balanced. That's obvious.

No, it's not obvious. Fortunately Basic arithmetic is: CP 160s in Vivec fighting CP 600s are obviously in an unbalanced campaign, even if it's a CP 599 vs a CP 600 fight it's is obvious imbalance that is measurable. 600 > 599, and in noCP; Zero = Zero.

CP is designed to be a place for accommodating unbalanced gameplay between characters of inherently different baseline strength lvls, noCP is designed to balance the field by making everyone's baseline equal --but it isn't quite balanced for many reasons that are independent of CP and not exclusive to either format -- certainly for none of the reasons cited here. Here there be no reasons, only CP QQ. If you were honestly -HONESTLY- seeking to play in the most balanced format possible, would you choose the format that is OBJECTIVELY designed to permit/reward imbalances in character strength, or the one that tries to balance the field by putting everyone at the same baseline but falls short b/c ZoS.

How's that for an obvious choice?

If you think it is as simple as 600 > 599 this is worthless, you are a lost call.

Drakkdjinn · July 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

God I love this thread, so much QQ so little pew pew.

CP players obviously can't cope b/c they're not used to playing without CP. Proc sets are not a problem to anyone who's got a proper build in noCP, and yes magicka has plenty of proc sets too. Proc sets + resource poisons on the other hand, are a problematic combination; poisons are wayyy worse in noCP than any proc set.

No CP isn't fun because PvDoor isn't fun. Campaigns are dead on PS4 NA. I played it the first month, the lack of action is not fun.

I feel for you man, I really do, but your comment has exactly zero relevance with the topic at hand. Those campaigns are dead b/c consoles are terribly optimized for MMOs especially when a company like ZOS is at the wheel, if the forums are any indication the hardcore console population is only going to continue to decline

What? You said CP players couldn't cope and that's why they don't like no CP. I countered that people like CP because there is a population versus a dead campaign. Seems pretty relevant, also your comment about optimization is actually completely off base, Vivec stays pop locked pretty much all day.

Oh, well then..

0/10 reading comprehension. Please review thread title and see me after class.

No CP was more balanced before sustain changes to CP, now CP is more balanced. That's obvious.

No, it's not obvious. Fortunately Basic arithmetic is: CP 160s in Vivec fighting CP 600s are obviously in an unbalanced campaign, even if it's a CP 599 vs a CP 600 fight it's is obvious imbalance that is measurable. 600 > 599, and in noCP; Zero = Zero.

CP is designed to be a place for accommodating unbalanced gameplay between characters of inherently different baseline strength lvls, noCP is designed to balance the field by making everyone's baseline equal --but it isn't quite balanced for many reasons that are independent of CP and not exclusive to either format -- certainly for none of the reasons cited here. Here there be no reasons, only CP QQ. If you were honestly -HONESTLY- seeking to play in the most balanced format possible, would you choose the format that is OBJECTIVELY designed to permit/reward imbalances in character strength, or the one that tries to balance the field by putting everyone at the same baseline but falls short b/c ZoS.

How's that for an obvious choice?

If you think it is as simple as 600 > 599 this is worthless, you are a lost call.

Call me anytime you forget how to math.

Zvorgin · July 2017

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

God I love this thread, so much QQ so little pew pew.

CP players obviously can't cope b/c they're not used to playing without CP. Proc sets are not a problem to anyone who's got a proper build in noCP, and yes magicka has plenty of proc sets too. Proc sets + resource poisons on the other hand, are a problematic combination; poisons are wayyy worse in noCP than any proc set.

No CP isn't fun because PvDoor isn't fun. Campaigns are dead on PS4 NA. I played it the first month, the lack of action is not fun.

I feel for you man, I really do, but your comment has exactly zero relevance with the topic at hand. Those campaigns are dead b/c consoles are terribly optimized for MMOs especially when a company like ZOS is at the wheel, if the forums are any indication the hardcore console population is only going to continue to decline

What? You said CP players couldn't cope and that's why they don't like no CP. I countered that people like CP because there is a population versus a dead campaign. Seems pretty relevant, also your comment about optimization is actually completely off base, Vivec stays pop locked pretty much all day.

Oh, well then..

0/10 reading comprehension. Please review thread title and see me after class.

No CP was more balanced before sustain changes to CP, now CP is more balanced. That's obvious.

No, it's not obvious. Fortunately Basic arithmetic is: CP 160s in Vivec fighting CP 600s are obviously in an unbalanced campaign, even if it's a CP 599 vs a CP 600 fight it's is obvious imbalance that is measurable. 600 > 599, and in noCP; Zero = Zero.

CP is designed to be a place for accommodating unbalanced gameplay between characters of inherently different baseline strength lvls, noCP is designed to balance the field by making everyone's baseline equal --but it isn't quite balanced for many reasons that are independent of CP and not exclusive to either format -- certainly for none of the reasons cited here. Here there be no reasons, only CP QQ. If you were honestly -HONESTLY- seeking to play in the most balanced format possible, would you choose the format that is OBJECTIVELY designed to permit/reward imbalances in character strength, or the one that tries to balance the field by putting everyone at the same baseline but falls short b/c ZoS.

How's that for an obvious choice?

If you think it is as simple as 600 > 599 this is worthless, you are a lost call.

Call me anytime you forget how to math.

Now this is confusing, you said no cp is balanced, but now you say cp is balanced with the caveat that both players have the same CP level. 630 = 630 just the same as 0 = 0. So you actually don't care about CP versus non-CP, all you care about is everyone scaling to the same spot apparently. Maybe you should read the thread title again. Regardless, anyone who thinks it is as simple as matching CP numbers has nothing worthwhile to contribute so I'm done wasting time with this thread.