Time to balance divines

MehrunesFlagon · June 2017

Quit being a moron and suggesting this ***.

MehrunesFlagon · June 2017

Eleusian wrote: »

9 traites is the real issue. They set the stupid RNG table to be a grind fest.

If it wasn't divines they would have us chasing something else. It's all about creating a need to replay content over and over .

Take the number of total traits down to 7. I think it's pretty obvious ,which traits should be eliminated permanently.

idk · June 2017

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

We will let the poll decide the fate of Divines.

You can pretend that other traits are important, but at the end of the day, you wont settle unless its divines.
It doesnt matter what you think the other person has, because thats what you think the tanks and healers use. But all that matters is what YOU are using, which ones YOU want, which is Divines.

@qsnoopyjr the poll is crap. You clearly designed a lame biased poll.

No, HELLL NAH, I spent YEARS getting perfect set. I say NO to CP raise, NO to downgrading divines. OH HELLLL NAH

In quotes I put your choice for "No" and it is one of the most absurd responses put into a poll. Really lame and I am giving you some credit that it was created out of rage since it was clearly created without good judgment.

LOL

Malnutrition · June 2017

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

I'd take improvements of the other traits, rather than nerfing a trait.

This.

IZZEFlameLash · June 2017

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

IZZESparkling wrote: »

Not even worth my vote. I realized that the moment I saw the options. I gave a benefit of doubt despite the title but I must say... it was misplaced. No. Divines do not need to be nerfed.

Infuseds+divines are still a great combo instead of full divines. Used both in pve and pvp (mostly by sorcs anyways)
Full divines is only really useful when you are largely depending on the mundus, like TBS wearing builds.
Impen, well-fitted and sturdy are used for pvp. Reinforced, Nirnhoned and sturdy are used by tanks (mainly for pve).
Training is used for leveling faster.

The only real trash here is prosperous, which ends up netting less than impen despite the gold bonus due to high repair cost. If anything, weapons traits need to be readjusted. Not armor traits.

I keep seeing that prosperous gains are outweighed by impen repair cost reduction. This simply isn't true. Perhaps, possibly, if you go out of your way to kill ONLY mobs that don't drop much gold (daedra/beasts/etc) you might wind up with greater repair costs than gold gained vs impen. But if you're actually killing humanoid enemies consistently, especially imperials, prosperous pays for itself long before your armor wears out. Besides, who doesn't have hundreds of grand repair kits at this point?

I still think prosperous should be buffed though. Somebody suggested the bonus being applied to vendoring and quest rewards, and I'd be all for that, though an argument can be made that it would encourage people to carry around a prosperous set to gear swap for quest turn-ins. The simpler solution is still probably to bring the gains up to 10 or 12% per piece.

Someone did a math on prosperous and in no scenarios did it come out on top of the impen. I mean, your armor deterioriate way slower than prosperous armors. And I've had results farming with impen than prosperous. Few runs and then you have like 1k repair cost and the same amount of runs and with Impen, I make way more than prosperous at the end. This is why people say propsperous needs to be buffed or removed. It is a complete garbage.

agingerinohio · June 2017

Yet another nerf this and that post. I say nerf the nerf requests.

Betsararie · June 2017

Another biased poll I won't be participating in. I actually like the fact that one trait is clearly the best (and only in pve?) because it gives us something to work toward with the grind. There should a certain amount of effort needed to obtain these BiS sets so that obtaining them is actually an accomplishment.

IZZEFlameLash · June 2017

Blanco wrote: »

Another biased poll I won't be participating in. I actually like the fact that one trait is clearly the best (and only in pve?) because it gives us something to work toward with the grind. There should a certain amount of effort needed to obtain these BiS sets so that obtaining them is actually an accomplishment.

I agree with this in actuality. In pvp, you want both sturdy and impen most cases and in pve you want infused and divines for the most part. Tanks and heals being the only ones need different traits but it is still one or two traits anyways to suit their needs. Way better than having to grind eternally to get all the other traits.

Dubhliam · June 2017

techprince wrote: »

Armor Traits :
Divine trait is fine as it.
Prosperous trait should be buffed to affect all the gold gained via quests, killing, selling to merchant etc.
Impenetrable trait could use a buff.
Infused trait could use a buff.
Nirnhoned being a rare trait needs to reduce all damage in %.
Reinforced is fine as it is.
Sturdy is fine as it is.
Training should be buffed to affect all the exp gained via quests, killing monsters and crafting.
Well-Fitted is fine as it is.

Weapon Traits :
Charged is fine as it is.
Defending is fine as it is.
Infused could use a buff.
Nirnhoned being a rare trait needs to increase all damage by %.
Powered is fine as it is.
Precise is fine as it is.
Sharpened is fine as it is.
Training should be buffed to affect all the exp gained via quests, killing monsters and crafting.
Decisive needs to be buffed drastically to even be a viable alternative to Infused or Defending.

Uh... what?

Do you even know what you are talking about?

F7sus4 · June 2017

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

FyI.. precise never help wih proc set builds as proc sets never crit now..

I really don't like tryhards arguing basic knowledge. (Don't know if stupid or pretending.) Take Scathing Mage as an example that procs of Crit Damage. It doesn't mean the damage provided by monster sets is subject to Crit damage increase. It means that you trigger the monster's set bonus by dealing Critical Damage in this particular scenario and that's an example of where Precise is helping.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Defending is only used by tanks, haeler uses precise, powered, charged and infused..

WOW...you really need to spend sometime playing ESO!

I'd suggest you rather look into end-game raid builds for the roles you're mentioning while basically repeating 80% of what I said myself here and arguing it at the same time. Because logic. Never heard of healers and tanks utilizing Decisive? Even know what Warhorn rotation is? Never heard of Infused Crusher on tank and why it's there? So much ignorance. Sometimes it's not the best idea to pretend to be smart. Really.

Kay1 · June 2017

That's a not reason to nerf a trait, buff infused on small pieces and maybe change prosperous to another trait.

But you are trying to nerf the only dps trait, PvP have his own traits like Well Fitted and Impen, PvE have Divines and Sturdy, PvE grind have training, ect.. All traits have a purpose but Prosperous.

Dubhliam · June 2017

Useless poll is useless.

You can have a Precise weapon and all 7 pieces Divine but you will still be weaker than a guy with a Sharpened weapon wearing any trait gear, including the most useless one: Prosperous.

GDOFWR420 · June 2017

Just leave it be

How about New traits?

techprince · June 2017

Dubhliam wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Armor Traits :
Divine trait is fine as it.
Prosperous trait should be buffed to affect all the gold gained via quests, killing, selling to merchant etc.
Impenetrable trait could use a buff.
Infused trait could use a buff.
Nirnhoned being a rare trait needs to reduce all damage in %.
Reinforced is fine as it is.
Sturdy is fine as it is.
Training should be buffed to affect all the exp gained via quests, killing monsters and crafting.
Well-Fitted is fine as it is.

Weapon Traits :
Charged is fine as it is.
Defending is fine as it is.
Infused could use a buff.
Nirnhoned being a rare trait needs to increase all damage by %.
Powered is fine as it is.
Precise is fine as it is.
Sharpened is fine as it is.
Training should be buffed to affect all the exp gained via quests, killing monsters and crafting.
Decisive needs to be buffed drastically to even be a viable alternative to Infused or Defending.

Uh... what?

Do you even know what you are talking about?

Yes i know what i am talking about. The question is, do YOU?

TheHsN · June 2017

Infused : more % buff for small pieces %20 for bigs and maybe %40 for smalls...

Prosperous: add it to chance to drop more quality items with more gold...it wil be a good grinding traits...

like: more chance to have Kuta
more chance to purple gear and jeweleries
more chance to etc....

Bobby_V_Rockit · June 2017

A 0.8% crit increase aint that strong. Buff it to 1% per piece!

Dubhliam · June 2017

techprince wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Armor Traits :
Divine trait is fine as it.
Prosperous trait should be buffed to affect all the gold gained via quests, killing, selling to merchant etc.
Impenetrable trait could use a buff.
Infused trait could use a buff.
Nirnhoned being a rare trait needs to reduce all damage in %.
Reinforced is fine as it is.
Sturdy is fine as it is.
Training should be buffed to affect all the exp gained via quests, killing monsters and crafting.
Well-Fitted is fine as it is.

Weapon Traits :
Charged is fine as it is.
Defending is fine as it is.
Infused could use a buff.
Nirnhoned being a rare trait needs to increase all damage by %.
Powered is fine as it is.
Precise is fine as it is.
Sharpened is fine as it is.
Training should be buffed to affect all the exp gained via quests, killing monsters and crafting.
Decisive needs to be buffed drastically to even be a viable alternative to Infused or Defending.

Uh... what?

Do you even know what you are talking about?

Yes i do, do YOU?

Resistances already work on percentage base.
Meaning when something gives you 3300 physical resist, you will be receiving around 5% less damage from physical attacks.

The only difference between resistances and other kinds of % based damage reduction is that resistances lose value once stacked over the maximum value of resistance (around 33k). Unique resistances such as The Nord passive resist an additional percentage of damage, after the resistance percentage reduction has already been applied.

Also... Infused weapon trait could use a buff?
Impen could use a buff??!
Sharpened is fine as it is??!!!

Just... no comment.

Crafts_Many_Boxes · June 2017

IZZESparkling wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

IZZESparkling wrote: »

Not even worth my vote. I realized that the moment I saw the options. I gave a benefit of doubt despite the title but I must say... it was misplaced. No. Divines do not need to be nerfed.

Infuseds+divines are still a great combo instead of full divines. Used both in pve and pvp (mostly by sorcs anyways)
Full divines is only really useful when you are largely depending on the mundus, like TBS wearing builds.
Impen, well-fitted and sturdy are used for pvp. Reinforced, Nirnhoned and sturdy are used by tanks (mainly for pve).
Training is used for leveling faster.

The only real trash here is prosperous, which ends up netting less than impen despite the gold bonus due to high repair cost. If anything, weapons traits need to be readjusted. Not armor traits.

I keep seeing that prosperous gains are outweighed by impen repair cost reduction. This simply isn't true. Perhaps, possibly, if you go out of your way to kill ONLY mobs that don't drop much gold (daedra/beasts/etc) you might wind up with greater repair costs than gold gained vs impen. But if you're actually killing humanoid enemies consistently, especially imperials, prosperous pays for itself long before your armor wears out. Besides, who doesn't have hundreds of grand repair kits at this point?

I still think prosperous should be buffed though. Somebody suggested the bonus being applied to vendoring and quest rewards, and I'd be all for that, though an argument can be made that it would encourage people to carry around a prosperous set to gear swap for quest turn-ins. The simpler solution is still probably to bring the gains up to 10 or 12% per piece.

Someone did a math on prosperous and in no scenarios did it come out on top of the impen. I mean, your armor deterioriate way slower than prosperous armors. And I've had results farming with impen than prosperous. Few runs and then you have like 1k repair cost and the same amount of runs and with Impen, I make way more than prosperous at the end. This is why people say propsperous needs to be buffed or removed. It is a complete garbage.

That math is apparently outdated. Go to youtube and look up farming techniques with prosperous gear. If you go to an area that has only imperial / humanoid mobs and farm by large groups, you can easily get 100-150 gold per pull. I can get as much as 16-20k gold even in a crowded area with 30-45 minutes of grinding, and i'll only have a repair bill of maybe 1500 tops. Without 7 x prosperous, I'd have only gotten 10-15k, so the gains from prosperous outweigh the costs. It's just math.

Again, this assumes you aren't just grinding animals or mobs that have low gold drops. Prosperous has a place, it just needs a buff

Reverb · June 2017

I think that 40% of the purple tempers circulating only exist because we decon our dungeon and trial drops with "bad" traits. That's worth considering for those of you who advocate for removing some traits completely.

Wifeaggro13 · June 2017

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

When the only set your after is anything Divines, its become Overpowered and there is no balance with traits. Is it time they downgrade divines and balance other traits.

the whole trait system needs to be removed, sharpened ,divine remove it all make the rarity be about the item itself not some crazy diablo 3 loot system

Kali_Despoine · June 2017

no matter what you nerf, buff or change there will always be a best in slot. You know that one trait that will maximize your damage out put or what ever it is your looking for.

techprince · June 2017

Dubhliam wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Armor Traits :
Divine trait is fine as it.
Prosperous trait should be buffed to affect all the gold gained via quests, killing, selling to merchant etc.
Impenetrable trait could use a buff.
Infused trait could use a buff.
Nirnhoned being a rare trait needs to reduce all damage in %.
Reinforced is fine as it is.
Sturdy is fine as it is.
Training should be buffed to affect all the exp gained via quests, killing monsters and crafting.
Well-Fitted is fine as it is.

Weapon Traits :
Charged is fine as it is.
Defending is fine as it is.
Infused could use a buff.
Nirnhoned being a rare trait needs to increase all damage by %.
Powered is fine as it is.
Precise is fine as it is.
Sharpened is fine as it is.
Training should be buffed to affect all the exp gained via quests, killing monsters and crafting.
Decisive needs to be buffed drastically to even be a viable alternative to Infused or Defending.

Uh... what?

Do you even know what you are talking about?

Yes i do, do YOU?

Resistances already work on percentage base.
Meaning when something gives you 3300 physical resist, you will be receiving around 5% less damage from physical attacks.

The only difference between resistances and other kinds of % based damage reduction is that resistances lose value once stacked over the maximum value of resistance (around 33k). Unique resistances such as The Nord passive resist an additional percentage of damage, after the resistance percentage reduction has already been applied.

Also... Infused weapon trait could use a buff?
Impen could use a buff??!
Sharpened is fine as it is??!!!

Just... no comment.

Yes they do, but the only ones reaching the cap are the tanks. If you didnt see, they apply the same logic of traits in both weapon and armor parts. If nirnhoned increases % damage then it will decrease % damage on armor as well. So what i posted, actually makes sense (apparently not to you).

Infused is getting compared with defending. You are giving away your mitigation for proc uptime as enchantment increase isnt high enough. So it can actually use a buff of 5-10% enchantment increase.
Impen isnt enough. If you DO pvp, you will understand.
Sharpened is overshadowing other traits because other traits does not give enough DPS to compensate for the dps loss. This means other traits needs to be buffed.

So yes, you have no idea what i am talking about.

qsnoopyjr · June 2017

Kali_Despoine wrote: »

no matter what you nerf, buff or change there will always be a best in slot. You know that one trait that will maximize your damage out put or what ever it is your looking for.

Thing is,

Tank, BIS Divines
Healer BIS Divines
DPS BIS Divines

You have other traits yet all YOU want is Divines.

Don't go making up crap about how others find other traits useful, thats just your assumption.
You You and You want Divines
It doesnt matter if You You and You think others want something else, thats not fact, fact is You want Divines.

...
But my friend he's a tank and I THINK he... It doesnt matter what you think (The Rock)

LiquidPony · June 2017

techprince wrote: »

Armor Traits :
Divine trait is fine as it.
Prosperous trait should be buffed to affect all the gold gained via quests, killing, selling to merchant etc.
Impenetrable trait could use a buff.
Infused trait could use a buff.
Nirnhoned being a rare trait needs to reduce all damage in %.
Reinforced is fine as it is.
Sturdy is fine as it is.
Training should be buffed to affect all the exp gained via quests, killing monsters and crafting.
Well-Fitted is fine as it is.

Weapon Traits :
Charged is fine as it is.
Defending is fine as it is.
Infused could use a buff.
Nirnhoned being a rare trait needs to increase all damage by %.
Powered is fine as it is.
Precise is fine as it is.
Sharpened is fine as it is.
Training should be buffed to affect all the exp gained via quests, killing monsters and crafting.
Decisive needs to be buffed drastically to even be a viable alternative to Infused or Defending.

One Infused DW weapon is the next best thing after Sharpened; with a few extra points in Piercing the difference is negligible (or use Kra'gh). Infused on just one DW weapon gives you significantly higher Berserker uptime, higher enchant proc DPS (poison, disease, etc.), and it increases the DPS of Endless Hail.

At least in the DW world, traits are: Sharp > Infused > Precise > Nirnhoned > the rest is garbage.

And even in the real world (i.e., where Magicka DPS is the only thing that actually matters), running 2 Infused or 2 Precise or 2 Nirnhoned staves and making up the missing pen elsewhere (Spell Erosion, Alkosh, etc.) is a very small difference from Sharpened.

How does Impen need buffed?

Why does Infused armor need a buff? It's basically BiS for DPS on big armor pieces (the difference versus Divines is within the margin of error on any parse) and it's great on a variety of builds.

Strider_Roshin · June 2017

Every trait has a propose.

Divines is for PvE DPS/Healing
Sturdy is for Tanking
Impen is for PvP
Training is for leveling up alts/farming CP
And the rest are for deconstructing

Phica_Lovic · June 2017

Dumbest poll answers I've seen yet. Still no other. Biased OP is biased.

I didn't spend years getting my gear. But hours is still hours.

Dubhliam · June 2017

techprince wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Armor Traits :
Divine trait is fine as it.
Prosperous trait should be buffed to affect all the gold gained via quests, killing, selling to merchant etc.
Impenetrable trait could use a buff.
Infused trait could use a buff.
Nirnhoned being a rare trait needs to reduce all damage in %.
Reinforced is fine as it is.
Sturdy is fine as it is.
Training should be buffed to affect all the exp gained via quests, killing monsters and crafting.
Well-Fitted is fine as it is.

Weapon Traits :
Charged is fine as it is.
Defending is fine as it is.
Infused could use a buff.
Nirnhoned being a rare trait needs to increase all damage by %.
Powered is fine as it is.
Precise is fine as it is.
Sharpened is fine as it is.
Training should be buffed to affect all the exp gained via quests, killing monsters and crafting.
Decisive needs to be buffed drastically to even be a viable alternative to Infused or Defending.

Uh... what?

Do you even know what you are talking about?

Yes i do, do YOU?

Resistances already work on percentage base.
Meaning when something gives you 3300 physical resist, you will be receiving around 5% less damage from physical attacks.

The only difference between resistances and other kinds of % based damage reduction is that resistances lose value once stacked over the maximum value of resistance (around 33k). Unique resistances such as The Nord passive resist an additional percentage of damage, after the resistance percentage reduction has already been applied.

Also... Infused weapon trait could use a buff?
Impen could use a buff??!
Sharpened is fine as it is??!!!

Just... no comment.

Yes they do, but the only ones reaching the cap are the tanks. If you didnt see, they apply the same logic of traits in both weapon and armor parts. If nirnhoned increases % damage then it will decrease % damage on armor as well. So what i posted, actually makes sense (apparently not to you).

Infused is getting compared with defending. You are giving away your mitigation for proc uptime as enchantment increase isnt high enough. So it can actually use a buff of 5-10% enchantment increase.
Impen isnt enough. If you DO pvp, you will understand.
Sharpened is overshadowing other traits because other traits does not give enough DPS to compensate for the dps loss. This means other traits needs to be buffed.

So yes, you have no idea what i am talking about.

You got it the other way around.
Nirnhoned weapons don't give % damage, but a fixed amount of Weapon/Spell damage proportional to the level of the weapon.
Nirnhoned armor gives a % mitigation since all resistances are % based.

Yes, you are right.
I have no idea what you are talking about.

Nifty2g · June 2017

There will always be a best in slot with a game so heavily around calculations.

Tasear · June 2017

Nope... let me give you insight

impenetrable - is highly useful for pvp it's the divines of pve (note there's no critical attacks from mobs in pve land)

infused - is useful if you use the max stat mundus or tri glyphs

nirnhoned - is only useful when you don't have champion points, and really really want to do some content before then. (okay it's garbage on amour)

prosperous- there's this one place where you can make 150g each mob pull so gold ever 1 to 5 secs. It's not as useuless as you think it is. Even if you aren't aware of those locations then you can simple use when farming for materials or doing normal dugeons. Also advisable for people who are leveling up for the first time.

Reinforced and sturdy - tanks bread and butter,

Training - cause leveling up is a bit slow, why not make it faster. Useful for people leveling up new toons or gaining cp faster, or impatient new players

Well- fitted - is useful for thieves, merchants, farmers , also capture the flag battgrounds or scroll runners in pvp

sebban · June 2017

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Well Divine is not my fued to discuss but i am tired of Sharpen only meta for weapons..

So you want a new trait meta for weapons? Already happened.

ZOS has already done a rebalance of traits before. The only thing that changed was that we want weapons in sharpened instead of nirnhoned. Tanks have a bit more flexibility now, but traits for tanks always were more flexible.

Bad traits are still bad.

One trait will always be the best. It might change, but one will always be better than the other. If another trait comes up on top after another rebalance, it just means we have to farm gear with the new top trait.