[Suggestion] Do not allow lowbies queue to Veteran dungeons

Bobby_V_Rockit · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

MissBizz wrote: »

Just finished a vet HM dungeon with a "lowbie" tonight. Smooth as butter.

Was it vCOA1?

Betsararie · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

MissBizz wrote: »

Just finished a vet HM dungeon with a "lowbie" tonight. Smooth as butter.

lol'd so incredibly hard at this

As if all vet dungeons are the same level of difficulty.

SirDopey · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Here's an idea, instead of hating on lowbies just get better so that you can carry them?

As long as they understand you won't risk killing yourself by rezing them I don't see the problem. Let them wipe, finish the boss, move on. Simples

Flameheart · June 2017

Silver, I love you, please make more polls ("I don't care" option)

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I just roll with this strategy:

1 Communication - most content can be explained and defeated with active verbal cooperation regardless of CP/experience. This plays to the whole L2P argument. Some are too bashful to let their lack of knowledge be known, but let me know what you do know so I can address what you don't... and help you. Speaking to someone gives so much more info than just observing their title and gear. This is also how you help a person eliminate themselves from the group. Wasting others' time is a two way street.

2 Roles - keep an eye on that guy with the 2 roles selected. All 3 roles picked probably means you get all three stooges rolled into one potato salad. Some 2 role rollers are great and perform well, but its rare. Some are just impatient and believe casting a wider net in GF results in more people potentially tolerating their antics.

3 Damage - Getting to the first boss usually takes some time, and you can spend some of the dungeon timer penalty getting there and judging along the way. Give them all a chance, some people are trying new builds or rotations. Some people need to be abandoned. When things fail or go horribly wrong, see #1. The problems won't just go away after multiple tries, and the bosses don't get easier as you go. I leave the group before suggesting a kick. If one person is ruining it for others, they get the boot from others or they ruin that group.

Especially on weeknights, I don't have time to do a three or four hour dungeon. I don't see how that's acceptable to anybody not carrying friends or guildies. The sense of accomplishment from getting 6 keys is always better than only one or two (or just a 2 hour fail for nothing). There is a certain understanding between carrier and the carried that has to be reached by both parties. It's a PUG, I'm under no obligations to carry you any more than you have to listen to me about one shot mechanics and hard-casted frags. I can't teach you a rotation and help set your skill bars at the Planar Inhibitor 3rd try - because I'm already long gone before then. I love to help people complete what they couldn't before, but it requires cooperation.

As I see I am not the only one with the above quoted strategy :-) I agree especially to the "multiple roles selectors". Often they are the bad apples.

But no rule without exception. If I would do that, you would get a tank with legendary equip (Ebon, Akaviri Dragonguard, mostly sturdy and 29-30k resists selfbuffed and tons of ressources, 28k+ magicka, 17k+ Stamina with almost chained warhorns), a DD in meta gear and skill setup capable of doing at least 25k dps, mostly 30k+ dps (depends on boss encounters and support like warhorns, combat prayer, debuffs etc., can be pretty different in 4-man-pugs), or a healer in full Worm + SPC with ele drain up and bubbles flying.

...and this on my NB, DK, Templar and Sorc. Ever seen a full DK Worm/SPC healer ? I can give you one. That's the reason I play mostly magicka chars. I set my CPs, morphs and mundus for a DD role, but for 4-man-stuff you are able to play all roles at 95%+ efficiency by just doing a single gear and skill swap in Dressing Room. After the sustain nerf and when doing harder dungeons like Mazzatum or Cradle I change my mundus before playing as a healer or tank (Thief isn't the best for those roles).

Actually that's the most fun I draw from that game, playing multiple roles and enjoying the diversity.

In PUGs you can fail because of simple mistakes. As an example: You encounter now a lot of new created wardens even with high CP in instances. Many of them haven't skilled Warhorns, bubbles, Harness Magicka or restoration staff skills (Springs, Ward, Combat Prayer). It might not change anything for an easy vet instance like FG1, but it might make a big difference for instances like CoA2, as I realized there last night.

Flameheart · June 2017

Silver, I love you, please make more polls ("I don't care" option)

SirDopey wrote: »

Here's an idea, instead of hating on lowbies just get better so that you can carry them?

As long as they understand you won't risk killing yourself by rezing them I don't see the problem. Let them wipe, finish the boss, move on. Simples

The thing with the "carrying" isn't that easy anymore after the sustain nerf, you can't compensate a second DD which is a total loss to the degree pre-sustain-nerf and this with healers who think healing is all they need to do and never heard of ele drain and bubbles and tanks who are only able to taunt maybe one add.

In addition I think it's up to my decision if I want to do that and waste my time and pots for that and not yours.

Malmai · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

After the healer dropped because no one would vote to kick the CP100 DD we 3 manned the vet dungeon without issue, with the CP100 DD and the other dps off healing which would reduced their dps some. My tank was build as a tank so I was not contributing to damage.

I have also been in vet dungeons with DDs over CP160 and the damage sucked and we could not clear.

So bias against sub CP160 does not seem to fit well.

Man u have to learn the dungeon 1st like everybody else did and now this stuff is just taxi for newbies bcs zos knows that new players want to get that gear and nice experiance so they buy sub + crown stuff... And u are there to carry so they milk more money from new players... Interesting but works u are basicly paying zos and they get free boosting service from you hahahahahahaha... Open your mind bro u are... Use brainz guyz...

Navoric_Envaldreth · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to easy veteran dungeons only (with number 1 in the name)

Vet dungeons are to random difficulty to justify this. Half the vet dungeons can be done by a hybrid lvl 10 using 2hander or something equal. The other half is harder, but ey.. how are we going to classify all of them. All remarks surrounding difficulty usually are personal opinions. so no way to rate exactly where to draw the line.

rootimus · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

We're up to page 6 of "people who can't blitz hard mode vet dungeons suck"?

I'd post my guild's recruitment message right here, but I suspect that would run afoul of the rules. Anyone reading this thread and thinking they need to be VR16 before they can run vet dungeons (even on hard mode) should probably find themselves a fun, friendly guild where no-one cares if the first trash mob causes the occasional wipe.

Most dungeon stuff is about mechanics and that can be taught regardless of your level.

Kay1 · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

I don't care about CP or levels, if you are good you stay.

Amun93 · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

You are just as likely to get a max cp toon that doesnt know anything as you are to get a cp12 that doesnt know anything and the opposite is true as well. The group finder on vet is has a reputation for being used by newer players or by those without a guild for PvE content. Sometimes you get suprised by good players and sometimes you get bad players. That is just part of the RNG of a group finder and it will never go away regardless of what limitations you try to put on it.

Eyesinthedrk · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

I enjoy helping out noobs via activity finder. When I don't feel like dedicating the time to that, I run them with guildies.

paulsimonps · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

SilverWF wrote: »

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

A player's level or number of champion points is not even remotely indicative of said player's knowledge, skill, or ability.

There are plenty of CP 630 players who have no idea what they're doing, no idea how to build a character, and have no idea how to play their role.

This is wrng call
The number of noobs at high CP lvls are very low (and they can be freely reported for account buy) and equals to the number of really good lowbies. This is minority and can be ignored - sorry, but that's how democracy works

You report people that are high CP but not good players? Are you for real?

josiahva · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I still havent done any of the 4 DLC vet dungeons, I'm CP 740 and played same toon for nearly 2 years lol.

Do you just not have the DLC then?

me_ming · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Wow! This guy.

As if you've never been a lowbie before. lol. People with higher CP who cannot carry a person with CP10 in most vet dungeons, especially non-DLC dungeons, should NOT be allowed to queue in vet dungeons.

You obviously are a noob in ESO. When I started doing vet dungeons I have 1CP and vet 1. Now you get 10 CP upon reaching level 50. And people did NOT kick me then. And yes most of the time it was scaled to the highest vet level (not to my level). Players were patient enough to teach me the mechanics. And that is why, I never kick lowbies. Just yesterday, I played with a cp150 tank in vICP, and we actually completed the dungeon without any problems. The tank even introduced a different strategy with the first boss, that made that fight very easy.

There is no point kicking a lowbie when you're doing most vet dungeons, they are relatively easy. If you can't carry or teach them mechanic, then you shouldn't be queuing. You know the fights, you have to teach lowbies so that more people know mechanic. Because you don't want cp300s who go into a dungeon for the first and are oblivious of how the fights are. And that is what is happening now.

Plain and simple, OP is a scrub who needs people to carry him or her.

MissBizz · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Blanco wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Just finished a vet HM dungeon with a "lowbie" tonight. Smooth as butter.

lol'd so incredibly hard at this

As if all vet dungeons are the same level of difficulty.

@Blanco they aren't at all, I know. Thing is, many are definitely doable by low Cp players. It would also be confusing to new players on why they can do SOME vet dungeons but not others. It was an easier dungeon we did last night, but according to the OP's blanket criteria of all vet OR only story 1 dungeons. BC II isn't all that hard.

max_only · June 2017

No my only suggestion is that the gear should all be convertible to cp 160 before the trading period elapses.

I don't kick lowbies. ZOS always seems to give them the drops I want though... it's fecking frustrating.

CaineCarver · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

If ZOS wants more experienced players to teach newer players the ropes then ZOS needs to stop punishing veterans for spending a lot of time doing a run that should not take more than 30 minutes. Get rid of the need to farm BOP items that the lower levels can't even share because their loot is not cp160. barring that...

My suggestion would be to provide a box to check in the Dungeon Finder indicating you will spend time helping new players and once completed you get some kind of increased reward for the extra effort.

max_only · June 2017

timb16_ESO85 wrote: »

While I don't mind low cp players in veteran dungeons, I do mind people not knowing what they are doing. In stead of limiting low cps, they should limit veteran dungeon access to having at least completed the dungeon on normal difficulty. there absolutely is nothing worse than wiping because somebody doesn't know the mechanics, or worse, because someone is listening to the quest text and not doing anything else.This would still allow people who know what they do in veteran dungeons, while restricting access for anyone who is new (no matter the cp of the player).

Normal dungeons do not prepare you for the mechanics of the veteran version. In normal you can burn down a boss so fast you never see even one phase or mechanic. I can even spam heal through mechanics on normal that on vet would get you killed.

To OP

I never kick a low level cp. in fact, my experience has been that the person who initiates the vote kick is the person who thought they were going to be carried. I once had a group with the highest cps I've ever seen and immediately upon entering one said "Hold up, I'm going to go poop" and the tank rushed ahead and tried to solo everything. Tried. I was the healer and the other dd and I were just running into troll pull after troll pull and barely surviving.

I don't think your suggestion would save me any grief at all.

However I suggest, Drops should have the ability to be converted to max level while they are still in the trading phase because rngesus loves newbies.

Yarlenzey · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Perhaps we could also disable resource farming for characters over 495CP?

That would do two things:

Remove 630CP harvesters from draining the resources at training maps.
Encourage all +495CP players to stay in dungeons where they clearly prefer to be.

I have no idea what 'role' I am. I don't heal, I don't know what 'Tank' means', so I usually queue as the other one.
I always arrive late and discover that my 'team' has started without me.
I make every attempt to kill stuff. I die a lot. Sometimes team members revive me.
Sometimes I even remember to use the group chat.

Happy to help...

Malthorne · June 2017

I realize this may be an unpopular opinion but I would rather see a Proving Ground type of instance that must be passed regardless of CP level to participate in Veteran dungeons.
This is not an elitist post. I'm not asking for anything difficult. I'm not trying exclude anyone from content. What I am requesting is a solo instance which teaches players how to perform their roles and follow basic mechanics that ends with a test dungeon to ensure that players are prepped for battle in a group setting. ESO does nothing to teach people how to play and I believe this could really provide a more enjoyable dungeon groupfinder experience for EVERYONE.

Magdalina · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Malmai wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

After the healer dropped because no one would vote to kick the CP100 DD we 3 manned the vet dungeon without issue, with the CP100 DD and the other dps off healing which would reduced their dps some. My tank was build as a tank so I was not contributing to damage.

I have also been in vet dungeons with DDs over CP160 and the damage sucked and we could not clear.

So bias against sub CP160 does not seem to fit well.

Man u have to learn the dungeon 1st like everybody else did and now this stuff is just taxi for newbies bcs zos knows that new players want to get that gear and nice experiance so they buy sub + crown stuff... And u are there to carry so they milk more money from new players... Interesting but works u are basicly paying zos and they get free boosting service from you hahahahahahaha... Open your mind bro u are... Use brainz guyz...

Malthorne wrote: »

I realize this may be an unpopular opinion but I would rather see a Proving Ground type of instance that must be passed regardless of CP level to participate in Veteran dungeons.
This is not an elitist post. I'm not asking for anything difficult. I'm not trying exclude anyone from content. What I am requesting is a solo instance which teaches players how to perform their roles and follow basic mechanics that ends with a test dungeon to ensure that players are prepped for battle in a group setting. ESO does nothing to teach people how to play and I believe this could really provide a more enjoyable dungeon groupfinder experience for EVERYONE.

I'd agree with that. Ultimately I do not find it fair that experienced players are essentially forced to carry/teach less experienced once if they use groupfinder, with no option to opt out, however issue is that's currently the ONLY way.

If there was somewhat else for newbies to go learn I'd say go and learn there before trying yourself in a challenging group activity but THERE IS NOT. In the good old days vet zones themselves, while overkill, forced people to learn some things, along with main quest, now that's gone. I'm not saying that system was perfect but the game is in dire need of a learning curve. As long as vet dungeons are the only learning curve we have I'll stay strictly against locking lowbies out of them.

idk · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

max_only wrote: »

No my only suggestion is that the gear should all be convertible to cp 160 before the trading period elapses.

I don't kick lowbies. ZOS always seems to give them the drops I want though... it's fecking frustrating.

I have seen in another game that when players of different levels trade the drop they got it changes to the level of the player who received it.

Regardless, it is not a reason to ban anyone from using GF for the vet dungeons.

Bobby_V_Rockit · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

josiahva wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I still havent done any of the 4 DLC vet dungeons, I'm CP 740 and played same toon for nearly 2 years lol.

Do you just not have the DLC then?

I have them, I just cant do them. Almost did vICP once, but cant beat:
- Planar inhibitor
- Mighty Chudan
- Giant Flesh Attonach
- Dranos guy with the orange shades

Done the normal modes dozens of times.

Asardes · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I still havent done any of the 4 DLC vet dungeons, I'm CP 740 and played same toon for nearly 2 years lol.

Do you just not have the DLC then?

I have them, I just cant do them. Almost did vICP once, but cant beat:
- Planar inhibitor
- Mighty Chudan
- Giant Flesh Attonach
- Dranos guy with the orange shades

Done the normal modes dozens of times.

Planar Inhibitor: close portals, take pinion in turn - everyone should take it unless they have portals - when boss blue take the boss to the end of the room (the one with the door), then change and take to the opposite end until the phase expires.

Ibomez the Flesh Sculptor: if everyone throws the poison balls at the add groups just 1-2 flesh atronachs spawn and those can be killed by AoE together with the boss until the next add phase if the tank is competent and stacks them

Mighty Chudan: the only trick is to watch your feet and when you get the red circle just line up with the lightning mage so the turtle charges and kills him (either in front, or behind it, doesn't really matter if you are lined up). If the tank is DK use wings to deflect the spit, non-DK tanks can use the 1H+S ultimate to do the same thing.

Dranos Veledor: nothing special here, just bash the chaining adds to save the tank, kill the distant adds and take the essence from them, if tank is DK he can simply pull them into the boss and it absorbs the essence (specific achievement for beating the mechanic this way)

None of those fights is a DPS race, just play by the mechanic and you will beat them. The first 2 can be beaten by simply stacking and burning if the group is very good though: competent tank and healer, group DPS > 100K.

Last summer when Shadows of the Hist came out I was under CP600 but had done Imperial City Challenger achievement and on 1st run in vRoM and vCoS 2-3 days after release I did most achievements, save the speed run and no death run as we were still learning the mechanics. There's really nothing complicated about it.

Nyghthowler · June 2017

Question to the OP; my current character is game level 42. BUT, he has 220 CP points because of my highest level character. So is he a lowbie that should be barred from Vet content, or does he meet your requirements?
How would you make the distinction on characters that fall into this category?

Tasear · June 2017

Enodoc wrote: »

Veteran officially starts at Level 50. Denying any players who have reached Level 50 access to Veteran content would be incorrect.

You can't queue for a dungeon till level 10. But Pledges are lvl 45, people are often undergeared below 160. No I am not saying bar access, but some restrictions might be considered.

Had an issue where cp 630 tank and Healer got cp 20 and cp 60 DPS for veteran elden 2. Took five minutes on the first pull. Sure it might of been possible in four hours, but there's was probably many issue going on that simply couldn't be resolved. We resolved our self to quit. Group DPS was under 10k.

I would like to see people spot being cheap and properly gear yourself with dungeons even under 160. Why do so many people not use food? I feel like if you can't button mash 6k DPS as a dps then you have no place in veteran dungeons. That's fair no?

Then again I could settle with a warning label. Saying it requires more tatics, bosses have restiances and such. Maybe make it undaunted part 2 quest where npc explain and make them aware it's a lot harder. If they could reward Blue or purple food food, soul gem, and repair kit, suggest to visit crafting stations or find mysterious master crafters for better gear. Also npc should warn them every so often when turning in quests to update gear. I think that would make a difference. Either way we can agree the transition needs some work.

josiahva · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I still havent done any of the 4 DLC vet dungeons, I'm CP 740 and played same toon for nearly 2 years lol.

Do you just not have the DLC then?

I have them, I just cant do them. Almost did vICP once, but cant beat:
- Planar inhibitor
- Mighty Chudan
- Giant Flesh Attonach
- Dranos guy with the orange shades

Done the normal modes dozens of times.

Palanar Inhibitor- The name of the game is monkey in the middle while closing portals. Closing the pinion aggros boss on you, but if pinion is open it rains fire on entire group, so you just take turns closing the pinion...making the inhibitor play monkey in the middle. Its vitally important the pinion is never open more than a second because if someone keeps aggro too long the boss says "let the heat take you" and hits them with heatstroke...a very powerful DoT that will kill them in short order if they arent the tank...and will kill even the tank if the tank gets portals since he/she has to devote survival resources to closing portals. its especially important to keep pinion closed during coldfire mode where the damage is even greater and she wil burn the person she is chasing to death if she catches them.
Mighty Chudan- Aggros on a random person, indicated by slowly filling bullseye at their feet. When this bullseye is full, boss charges that person. Its the responsibility of that person to line the boss up with argonian under shield in relation to the boss, making the boss charge and kill argonian, since this is the only way to kill argonian. This can be accomplished by standing in front or behind the bubble. A miss generally means a wipe, so its very important not to miss. Tank tanks boss in middle to make it easy to get to argonian, and reflects Chudan's spit(or blocks through it if especially tanky). Everyone else stays out from in front of Chudan because his cleave will one-shot.
The abomination-The tank taunts the boss only...roll dodging between his legs to avoid his attacks. When everone gets AoE on them, block to mitigate damage and prevent stun. One person will get random posion circle around them...they dont leave the circle or they die trying...if they are a sorc they can streak out...if they are a tank they can roll dodge through...anyone else stays in and ranges things down...when boss runs toward middle...run to edges to avoid hoarver explosion(the more hoarvers alive, the more damage this will do
Dranos-Easy fight...but almost entirely a tank fight. Everyone except tank stays near door at all times...bash/interrupt the 2 ads that pin the tank down or he is one shot if his health is less than 50k. The 3 ads he summons in red aura mode the tank taunts him and kites him around to each ad, when he gets close enough, he will re-absorb them, this is faster than the DPS trying to DPS ads, and safer since the tank wont be killed by the waves like DPS and healer. Alternatively the tank can use Chains(if DK) to pull ads into boss...but this is more dangerous because it requires standing closer to center where waves come from...much better for tank to kite while DPS and healer regen.

SilverWF · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Nyghthowler wrote: »

Question to the OP; my current character is game level 42. BUT, he has 220 CP points because of my highest level character. So is he a lowbie that should be barred from Vet content, or does he meet your requirements?
How would you make the distinction on characters that fall into this category?

I would answer, after you would explain: how you would queue to Vet at 42 lvl?
/facepalm
Ppl just can't read ><

Magdalina · July 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Tasear wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Veteran officially starts at Level 50. Denying any players who have reached Level 50 access to Veteran content would be incorrect.

I would like to see people spot being cheap and properly gear yourself with dungeons even under 160. Why do so many people not use food? I feel like if you can't button mash 6k DPS as a dps then you have no place in veteran dungeons. That's fair no?

The thing is, more often than not the answer to "Why do people not use food/have 13k health even with food and do 5k dps" is they simply don't know better. They level up, hit veteran, keep questing...nothing changes. The mobs they encounter die, the WB get zerged. They might well feel they're doing fine and well enough for veteran group content because all of the content of the game they experience confirms they're doing just fine. Then they enter a vet dungeon and SUDDENLY...

Sure some people look things up prior to trying vet dungeons but it's the minority and tbh I don't think it should be mandatory to do extensive searching online in order to know if you're good at the game. I'd definitely vote for a different learning ground than that of vet dungeons with more information available directly in the game but we have what we have

zaria · July 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

A player's level or number of champion points is not even remotely indicative of said player's knowledge, skill, or ability.

There are plenty of CP 630 players who have no idea what they're doing, no idea how to build a character, and have no idea how to play their role.

This is wrng call
The number of noobs at high CP lvls are very low (and they can be freely reported for account buy) and equals to the number of really good lowbies. This is minority and can be ignored - sorry, but that's how democracy works

You report people that are high CP but not good players? Are you for real?

LOL, you can easy reach max level doing only light attacks, doing all the quests on an multiple characters is one perfectly legitimate way.