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How do you like having warden healer in party?
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hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm, no...warden is NOT a better overall healer. Warden IS a better overall support class offering defense buffs, regen buff, etc in ADDITION to healing...but will be outhealed by a templar every time, because a healer can heal exactly when they need too instead of waiting for the warden's delayed AoE heal to pop(AKA ritual is better than the warden's AoE heal, even if it heals for less)
I disagree, Temps have BOL or Hornor the Dead as their best burst healing, and It will out heal a Warden on a single target.
However, the Wardens Budding seeds can be applied to a single player or many and you can spam it as well, you just have to make sure that you place the heal on the person you want.
Other than ritual and Luminous shards, Wardens are better healers. But Wardens can use orbs which is not as good as Shards but its close enough. So it comes down to Ritual as the main difference.
Well, two things.
Firstly, Templar healers don't spam BoL. Warden healers definitely don't spam seed. Every healer spams spring, Templar healer, DK healer, Sorc healer etc, they all spam spring. BoL is only used in emergency situation, as in the main tank needs flash heal or someone is out of the spring's range and is on low health. Seed does not serve this purpose, if someone is out of position (so, out of spring's range), he is also out of seed's range.
Secondly, as all healers spam spring, Templar healers excel at this particular task, because they have access to easy-to-get minor mending which they can easily keep 100% uptime. So, their HPS with spring spamming will be stronger than other classes.
Sure , temps Springs will be stronger, but that is a moot point. For the same AE, a Warder does not need to spam Springs, they can put down one.....and wait for it......Seeds once and wait.....then activate when they need, so more the just theory, in practice, Wardens are better AE healer than templars will ever be.
Have you healed a vet trial with that playstyle?
The Warden healer in my raid group also spams spring.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm, no...warden is NOT a better overall healer. Warden IS a better overall support class offering defense buffs, regen buff, etc in ADDITION to healing...but will be outhealed by a templar every time, because a healer can heal exactly when they need too instead of waiting for the warden's delayed AoE heal to pop(AKA ritual is better than the warden's AoE heal, even if it heals for less)
I disagree, Temps have BOL or Hornor the Dead as their best burst healing, and It will out heal a Warden on a single target.
However, the Wardens Budding seeds can be applied to a single player or many and you can spam it as well, you just have to make sure that you place the heal on the person you want.
Other than ritual and Luminous shards, Wardens are better healers. But Wardens can use orbs which is not as good as Shards but its close enough. So it comes down to Ritual as the main difference.
Well, two things.
Firstly, Templar healers don't spam BoL. Warden healers definitely don't spam seed. Every healer spams spring, Templar healer, DK healer, Sorc healer etc, they all spam spring. BoL is only used in emergency situation, as in the main tank needs flash heal or someone is out of the spring's range and is on low health. Seed does not serve this purpose, if someone is out of position (so, out of spring's range), he is also out of seed's range.
Secondly, as all healers spam spring, Templar healers excel at this particular task, because they have access to easy-to-get minor mending which they can easily keep 100% uptime. So, their HPS with spring spamming will be stronger than other classes.
Sure , temps Springs will be stronger, but that is a moot point. For the same AE, a Warder does not need to spam Springs, they can put down one.....and wait for it......Seeds once and wait.....then activate when they need, so more the just theory, in practice, Wardens are better AE healer than templars will ever be.
Either morph of healing ritual i like more than seeds. Seeds is so small and completely stationary. That's bad.0 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm nope. What do you mean by "burst AOE healing"? You mean spring spamming? Or what is that?
So what you're saying is...you were unaware that warden healers have a a couple of great burst heals? I woulda led with that, admitting your ignorance of the class would have been more honest than making up class deficiencies that don't exist.
Um no, I was asking what he meant by "burst AOE healing". Is spring considered "burst AOE healing"? Is the healing ult considered burst "burst AOE healing"? Is the delayed heal considered "burst AOE healing"? Or he just meant the warden's BoL? Because Warden's BoL is inferior compared to Templar's BoL, I failed to see how "Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp."
Have I made myself clear?
Yep. Crystal. It's clear you fail to see how Warden healers are far better bust AE healers than templars. Glad we agree the failure is yours.
Because they are not better burst AOE healers than Templars. Unless you can prove otherwise, which you haven't. I am all ears.
Since I keep reading that you've been a math genius since age 6, maybe look at the skills your own self and do the maths. It might be the first time you've studied them, for all I can tell. Or don't, it doesn't really matter what you think, TBH.
You are not a horse, it is not my job to lead you to water, much less to make you drink.
Edited by apostate9 on June 28, 2017 5:48PM0 -
Gargis✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm nope. What do you mean by "burst AOE healing"? You mean spring spamming? Or what is that?
No no, man. I solo healed Normal AE trial and I did it primarily with Budding Seeds.
Take the Morph of Budding Seeds. Drop it, let it sit, if none is taking burst damage let its time expire and then drop another.
When the boss are doing their AE burst damage on the raid, you can activate the bloom by pressing the ability again. You do not have to wait on the timer to expire. Cast it over and over and it does massive burst AE healing.
When your magica starts to get low, pop your heal ult. Back bar your buffs including betty and your good to go again.
Caveat: The raid has to be close enough together to be in the circle of the heal, but its big enough to get the job done.
Well I solo healed a normal trial once with my magsorc DD with a restro staff. We were like "there's no healer lol", and I was like "it's fine let me get my restro staff" and it worked.
You can't use your healing ult in vet trial environment, because healers have to run warhorn. As I have said in the previous post, as a healer you should spam spring, not seed. BoL and Seed are two different abilities which serve two different purposes. BoL is an emergency heal when someone is out of position, seed is used along side with spring to boost HPS and occasionally burst heal (if everyone is in position), but mostly to improve HPS. Seed is also much harder to use.
Sure, If I was not the only healer in that Trial I agree. But solo, you have to do what you must to keep ppl up. And no, you don't have to do anything.
And you are missing the point. Wardens Seeds is so good that you don't have to spam springs. You cast it and wait, activate when you need and repeat. Temps have to spam Springs because its a weak spell and they need to get some crits on it. That is not the case with Seeds.
As a warden you cast Springs then seeds and wait.. Temp, you are just about required to spam Springs because that and ritual on top of it is so weak you have to spam.
Go play a Warden and test out Seeds. Its a far better heal that Springs and almost rivals BOL, yet it is AE. The point is that Spring and Seeds is better burst healing compared to Springs and Ritual.1 -
Enemy-of-Coldharbour✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like that 21 second shield (Ice Fortress) that they can apply to other team members. Hey, how come the other classes only get 6 second shields?
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apostate9✭✭✭✭✭Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »I like that 21 second shield (Ice Fortress) that they can apply to other team members. Hey, how come the other classes only get 6 second shields?
Because it isn't, strictly speaking, a damage shield.It does mitigate damage, but not directly, like say Barrier or something.
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Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »
Don't forget aoe hot that has a cleanse synergy, aoe magicka steal and group minor regen bonus, faster rez, minor sorcery for the group, minor fracture and breach or an aoe hot for tank and melee dps also does 20k dmg every 6 seconds.
Sounds almost as good as an AOE defile, an AOE buff that grants Major Resolve and Major Ward, a means to convert heavy attacks into heals for the team, a reliable Major Mending mechanic, a healing gap closer, an AOE healing ult that costs less than a stick of gum, and a spammable AOE burst heal that gives 10% exta stamina and magicka regen.
Almost.
Defile is great for PvP, as is the gap closer i guess. This is about pve isn't it? Pretty much every class has access to thier own major ward and resolve through passive or needed skills though. Isn't thier major mending tied to healing someone being at low health? The healing ultimate is awesome, graphically it's a pain lol. I wouldn't say that it's always better than templar ultimate. Rite of passage and morphs only require the healer to be in 1 spot and it's range is outstanding.
I'd say the sorcery, shards, and minor fracture and breach make Templars better for trials.
I haven't made a warden in not sure if thier skills, just answering what temps bring besides shards.0 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm, no...warden is NOT a better overall healer. Warden IS a better overall support class offering defense buffs, regen buff, etc in ADDITION to healing...but will be outhealed by a templar every time, because a healer can heal exactly when they need too instead of waiting for the warden's delayed AoE heal to pop(AKA ritual is better than the warden's AoE heal, even if it heals for less)
I disagree, Temps have BOL or Hornor the Dead as their best burst healing, and It will out heal a Warden on a single target.
However, the Wardens Budding seeds can be applied to a single player or many and you can spam it as well, you just have to make sure that you place the heal on the person you want.
Other than ritual and Luminous shards, Wardens are better healers. But Wardens can use orbs which is not as good as Shards but its close enough. So it comes down to Ritual as the main difference.
Well, two things.
Firstly, Templar healers don't spam BoL. Warden healers definitely don't spam seed. Every healer spams spring, Templar healer, DK healer, Sorc healer etc, they all spam spring. BoL is only used in emergency situation, as in the main tank needs flash heal or someone is out of the spring's range and is on low health. Seed does not serve this purpose, if someone is out of position (so, out of spring's range), he is also out of seed's range.
Secondly, as all healers spam spring, Templar healers excel at this particular task, because they have access to easy-to-get minor mending which they can easily keep 100% uptime. So, their HPS with spring spamming will be stronger than other classes.
Sure , temps Springs will be stronger, but that is a moot point. For the same AE, a Warder does not need to spam Springs, they can put down one.....and wait for it......Seeds once and wait.....then activate when they need, so more the just theory, in practice, Wardens are better AE healer than templars will ever be.
Either morph of healing ritual i like more than seeds. Seeds is so small and completely stationary. That's bad.
So healing ritual moves with the caster now? Was that in the Patch Notes? Or are you saying hasty prayer is not a "stationary" heal? Is this a question of semantics?
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Gargis✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm, no...warden is NOT a better overall healer. Warden IS a better overall support class offering defense buffs, regen buff, etc in ADDITION to healing...but will be outhealed by a templar every time, because a healer can heal exactly when they need too instead of waiting for the warden's delayed AoE heal to pop(AKA ritual is better than the warden's AoE heal, even if it heals for less)
I disagree, Temps have BOL or Hornor the Dead as their best burst healing, and It will out heal a Warden on a single target.
However, the Wardens Budding seeds can be applied to a single player or many and you can spam it as well, you just have to make sure that you place the heal on the person you want.
Other than ritual and Luminous shards, Wardens are better healers. But Wardens can use orbs which is not as good as Shards but its close enough. So it comes down to Ritual as the main difference.
Well, two things.
Firstly, Templar healers don't spam BoL. Warden healers definitely don't spam seed. Every healer spams spring, Templar healer, DK healer, Sorc healer etc, they all spam spring. BoL is only used in emergency situation, as in the main tank needs flash heal or someone is out of the spring's range and is on low health. Seed does not serve this purpose, if someone is out of position (so, out of spring's range), he is also out of seed's range.
Secondly, as all healers spam spring, Templar healers excel at this particular task, because they have access to easy-to-get minor mending which they can easily keep 100% uptime. So, their HPS with spring spamming will be stronger than other classes.
Sure , temps Springs will be stronger, but that is a moot point. For the same AE, a Warder does not need to spam Springs, they can put down one.....and wait for it......Seeds once and wait.....then activate when they need, so more the just theory, in practice, Wardens are better AE healer than templars will ever be.
Have you healed a vet trial with that playstyle?
The Warden healer in my raid group also spams spring.
There is no good reason to spam Springs as a Warden as I can see, it does not play to their strength as a healer. You know I main a Temp and did not want to even think that Wardens can be as good as a healer, but they are and when it comes to AE healing, they are better.
At this point I think they need to rescind the major healing nerf on Temps or increase the healing tics on Ritual, and by no small margin.0 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »
Don't forget aoe hot that has a cleanse synergy, aoe magicka steal and group minor regen bonus, faster rez, minor sorcery for the group, minor fracture and breach or an aoe hot for tank and melee dps also does 20k dmg every 6 seconds.
Sounds almost as good as an AOE defile, an AOE buff that grants Major Resolve and Major Ward, a means to convert heavy attacks into heals for the team, a reliable Major Mending mechanic, a healing gap closer, an AOE healing ult that costs less than a stick of gum, and a spammable AOE burst heal that gives 10% exta stamina and magicka regen.
Almost.
Defile is great for PvP, as is the gap closer i guess. This is about pve isn't it? Pretty much every class has access to thier own major ward and resolve through passive or needed skills though. Isn't thier major mending tied to healing someone being at low health? The healing ultimate is awesome, graphically it's a pain lol. I wouldn't say that it's always better than templar ultimate. Rite of passage and morphs only require the healer to be in 1 spot and it's range is outstanding.
I'd say the sorcery, shards, and minor fracture and breach make Templars better for trials.
I haven't made a warden in not sure if thier skills, just answering what temps bring besides shards.
The warden Major Resolve and Major Ward are group buffs. Also, I don't think it is about PVE per se. Several responses here address PVP healing. I figured we were talking about the class as a whole, and how it sits in the healer role.
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hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm nope. What do you mean by "burst AOE healing"? You mean spring spamming? Or what is that?
So what you're saying is...you were unaware that warden healers have a a couple of great burst heals? I woulda led with that, admitting your ignorance of the class would have been more honest than making up class deficiencies that don't exist.
Um no, I was asking what he meant by "burst AOE healing". Is spring considered "burst AOE healing"? Is the healing ult considered burst "burst AOE healing"? Is the delayed heal considered "burst AOE healing"? Or he just meant the warden's BoL? Because Warden's BoL is inferior compared to Templar's BoL, I failed to see how "Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp."
Have I made myself clear?
Yep. Crystal. It's clear you fail to see how Warden healers are far better bust AE healers than templars. Glad we agree the failure is yours.
Because they are not better burst AOE healers than Templars. Unless you can prove otherwise, which you haven't. I am all ears.
Since I keep reading that you've been a math genius since age 6, maybe look at the skills your own self and do the maths. It might be the first time you've studied them, for all I can tell. Or don't, it doesn't really matter what you think, TBH.
You are not a horse, it is not my job to lead you to water, much less to make you drink.
Never said I am a math genius, I only said i have been doing maths since age 6 (like, don't we all?), I didn't specifically mention how good I was.
So, maybe you just enjoy trash-talking and you can't prove how "Warden healers are far better bust AE healers than templars". Keep the trash-talk as you wish
Warden aren't better "bust AE healers" (whatever it is) than Templars until proven otherwise. Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm, no...warden is NOT a better overall healer. Warden IS a better overall support class offering defense buffs, regen buff, etc in ADDITION to healing...but will be outhealed by a templar every time, because a healer can heal exactly when they need too instead of waiting for the warden's delayed AoE heal to pop(AKA ritual is better than the warden's AoE heal, even if it heals for less)
I disagree, Temps have BOL or Hornor the Dead as their best burst healing, and It will out heal a Warden on a single target.
However, the Wardens Budding seeds can be applied to a single player or many and you can spam it as well, you just have to make sure that you place the heal on the person you want.
Other than ritual and Luminous shards, Wardens are better healers. But Wardens can use orbs which is not as good as Shards but its close enough. So it comes down to Ritual as the main difference.
Well, two things.
Firstly, Templar healers don't spam BoL. Warden healers definitely don't spam seed. Every healer spams spring, Templar healer, DK healer, Sorc healer etc, they all spam spring. BoL is only used in emergency situation, as in the main tank needs flash heal or someone is out of the spring's range and is on low health. Seed does not serve this purpose, if someone is out of position (so, out of spring's range), he is also out of seed's range.
Secondly, as all healers spam spring, Templar healers excel at this particular task, because they have access to easy-to-get minor mending which they can easily keep 100% uptime. So, their HPS with spring spamming will be stronger than other classes.
Sure , temps Springs will be stronger, but that is a moot point. For the same AE, a Warder does not need to spam Springs, they can put down one.....and wait for it......Seeds once and wait.....then activate when they need, so more the just theory, in practice, Wardens are better AE healer than templars will ever be.
Either morph of healing ritual i like more than seeds. Seeds is so small and completely stationary. That's bad.
So healing ritual moves with the caster now? Was that in the Patch Notes? Or are you saying hasty prayer is not a "stationary" heal? Is this a question of semantics?
You're thinking of cleansing ritual i believe. Healing ritual is the ummorphed version of hasty and lingering ritual.0 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm nope. What do you mean by "burst AOE healing"? You mean spring spamming? Or what is that?
So what you're saying is...you were unaware that warden healers have a a couple of great burst heals? I woulda led with that, admitting your ignorance of the class would have been more honest than making up class deficiencies that don't exist.
Um no, I was asking what he meant by "burst AOE healing". Is spring considered "burst AOE healing"? Is the healing ult considered burst "burst AOE healing"? Is the delayed heal considered "burst AOE healing"? Or he just meant the warden's BoL? Because Warden's BoL is inferior compared to Templar's BoL, I failed to see how "Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp."
Have I made myself clear?
Yep. Crystal. It's clear you fail to see how Warden healers are far better bust AE healers than templars. Glad we agree the failure is yours.
Because they are not better burst AOE healers than Templars. Unless you can prove otherwise, which you haven't. I am all ears.
Since I keep reading that you've been a math genius since age 6, maybe look at the skills your own self and do the maths. It might be the first time you've studied them, for all I can tell. Or don't, it doesn't really matter what you think, TBH.
You are not a horse, it is not my job to lead you to water, much less to make you drink.
Never said I am a math genius, I only said i have been doing maths since age 6 (like, don't we all?), I didn't specifically mention how good I was.
So, maybe you just enjoy trash-talking and you can't prove how "Warden healers are far better bust AE healers than templars". Keep the trash-talk as you wish Warden aren't better "bust AE healers" (whatever it is) than Templars until proven otherwise.
They don't owe you an explanation, and neither do I. The math is what the math is. It has been pointed out to you 3 different ways in the last several pages, you seem to be unable to read posts that don't conform to your confirmation bias, so there is little point in writing another one. You can cherish whatever opinion you like about classes you don't play. They don't mind.
Edited by apostate9 on June 28, 2017 6:15PM0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm nope. What do you mean by "burst AOE healing"? You mean spring spamming? Or what is that?
No no, man. I solo healed Normal AE trial and I did it primarily with Budding Seeds.
Take the Morph of Budding Seeds. Drop it, let it sit, if none is taking burst damage let its time expire and then drop another.
When the boss are doing their AE burst damage on the raid, you can activate the bloom by pressing the ability again. You do not have to wait on the timer to expire. Cast it over and over and it does massive burst AE healing.
When your magica starts to get low, pop your heal ult. Back bar your buffs including betty and your good to go again.
Caveat: The raid has to be close enough together to be in the circle of the heal, but its big enough to get the job done.
Well I solo healed a normal trial once with my magsorc DD with a restro staff. We were like "there's no healer lol", and I was like "it's fine let me get my restro staff" and it worked.
You can't use your healing ult in vet trial environment, because healers have to run warhorn. As I have said in the previous post, as a healer you should spam spring, not seed. BoL and Seed are two different abilities which serve two different purposes. BoL is an emergency heal when someone is out of position, seed is used along side with spring to boost HPS and occasionally burst heal (if everyone is in position), but mostly to improve HPS. Seed is also much harder to use.
Sure, If I was not the only healer in that Trial I agree. But solo, you have to do what you must to keep ppl up. And no, you don't have to do anything.
And you are missing the point. Wardens Seeds is so good that you don't have to spam springs. You cast it and wait, activate when you need and repeat. Temps have to spam Springs because its a weak spell and they need to get some crits on it. That is not the case with Seeds.
As a warden you cast Springs then seeds and wait.. Temp, you are just about required to spam Springs because that and ritual on top of it is so weak you have to spam.
Go play a Warden and test out Seeds. Its a far better heal that Springs and almost rivals BOL, yet it is AE. The point is that Spring and Seeds is better burst healing compared to Springs and Ritual.
Have you healed a vet trial with seed spamming? The thing is, what you do in a normal trial doesn't translate into vet trial environment. People have been tanking normal trials in medium armour, but it doesn't translate well into vet trials.
The Warden healer in my raid group also spams spring.Edited by hmsdragonfly on June 28, 2017 6:10PMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wish the vines could cube targets after each cast of needed. That would be sick.0 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm, no...warden is NOT a better overall healer. Warden IS a better overall support class offering defense buffs, regen buff, etc in ADDITION to healing...but will be outhealed by a templar every time, because a healer can heal exactly when they need too instead of waiting for the warden's delayed AoE heal to pop(AKA ritual is better than the warden's AoE heal, even if it heals for less)
I disagree, Temps have BOL or Hornor the Dead as their best burst healing, and It will out heal a Warden on a single target.
However, the Wardens Budding seeds can be applied to a single player or many and you can spam it as well, you just have to make sure that you place the heal on the person you want.
Other than ritual and Luminous shards, Wardens are better healers. But Wardens can use orbs which is not as good as Shards but its close enough. So it comes down to Ritual as the main difference.
Well, two things.
Firstly, Templar healers don't spam BoL. Warden healers definitely don't spam seed. Every healer spams spring, Templar healer, DK healer, Sorc healer etc, they all spam spring. BoL is only used in emergency situation, as in the main tank needs flash heal or someone is out of the spring's range and is on low health. Seed does not serve this purpose, if someone is out of position (so, out of spring's range), he is also out of seed's range.
Secondly, as all healers spam spring, Templar healers excel at this particular task, because they have access to easy-to-get minor mending which they can easily keep 100% uptime. So, their HPS with spring spamming will be stronger than other classes.
Sure , temps Springs will be stronger, but that is a moot point. For the same AE, a Warder does not need to spam Springs, they can put down one.....and wait for it......Seeds once and wait.....then activate when they need, so more the just theory, in practice, Wardens are better AE healer than templars will ever be.
Either morph of healing ritual i like more than seeds. Seeds is so small and completely stationary. That's bad.
So healing ritual moves with the caster now? Was that in the Patch Notes? Or are you saying hasty prayer is not a "stationary" heal? Is this a question of semantics?
You're thinking of cleansing ritual i believe. Healing ritual is the ummorphed version of hasty and lingering ritual.
Yes, I know. And it is stationary. Like seeds/pollen. Except it has a cast time.
As an aside, you might wanna consider rolling a warden and doinking around with it. You may be pleasantly surprised.
0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭don't forget, over healing is bad. That's what makes springs and other hots good.0 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »don't forget, over healing is bad. That's what makes springs and other hots good.
Healing Springs is a Resto skill, Wardens have access to it, also Pollen, vines, and Nature's Grasp.
:-)
Edited by apostate9 on June 28, 2017 6:17PM0 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm enjoying this debate. I play a magplar healer and enjoy her very much. I'm simply delighted that the warden is creating more interest in healing. I want to see more healers of all kinds. My preference for templars is mostly a roleplay thing (holy knight...). I've known that sorcs make fine healers and am now happy to see that wardens do as well. Not that NB and DK don't - just don't know much about them as healers.
PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm nope. What do you mean by "burst AOE healing"? You mean spring spamming? Or what is that?
So what you're saying is...you were unaware that warden healers have a a couple of great burst heals? I woulda led with that, admitting your ignorance of the class would have been more honest than making up class deficiencies that don't exist.
Um no, I was asking what he meant by "burst AOE healing". Is spring considered "burst AOE healing"? Is the healing ult considered burst "burst AOE healing"? Is the delayed heal considered "burst AOE healing"? Or he just meant the warden's BoL? Because Warden's BoL is inferior compared to Templar's BoL, I failed to see how "Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp."
Have I made myself clear?
Yep. Crystal. It's clear you fail to see how Warden healers are far better bust AE healers than templars. Glad we agree the failure is yours.
Because they are not better burst AOE healers than Templars. Unless you can prove otherwise, which you haven't. I am all ears.
Since I keep reading that you've been a math genius since age 6, maybe look at the skills your own self and do the maths. It might be the first time you've studied them, for all I can tell. Or don't, it doesn't really matter what you think, TBH.
You are not a horse, it is not my job to lead you to water, much less to make you drink.
Never said I am a math genius, I only said i have been doing maths since age 6 (like, don't we all?), I didn't specifically mention how good I was.
So, maybe you just enjoy trash-talking and you can't prove how "Warden healers are far better bust AE healers than templars". Keep the trash-talk as you wish Warden aren't better "bust AE healers" (whatever it is) than Templars until proven otherwise.
They don't owe you an explanation, and neither do I. It has been pointed out to you 3 different ways in the last several pages, you seem to be unable to read posts that don't conform to your confirmation bias, so there is little point in writing another one. You can cherish whatever opinion you like about classes you don't play. They don't mind.
If you can't prove something, just say you can't prove it, it's totally fine.
There's no confirmation bias here, I am honestly curious about how Warden healers are better burst AOE healers than Templars, that's why I asked Gargis about it in a very polite and constructive way, but then you jumped in and you have pointed out to me 3 different ways in the last several pages that you only cared about trash-talking. So off with you, please stop sabotaging the constructive discussion between Gargis and me, go trash-talk elsewhere.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm nope. What do you mean by "burst AOE healing"? You mean spring spamming? Or what is that?
So what you're saying is...you were unaware that warden healers have a a couple of great burst heals? I woulda led with that, admitting your ignorance of the class would have been more honest than making up class deficiencies that don't exist.
Um no, I was asking what he meant by "burst AOE healing". Is spring considered "burst AOE healing"? Is the healing ult considered burst "burst AOE healing"? Is the delayed heal considered "burst AOE healing"? Or he just meant the warden's BoL? Because Warden's BoL is inferior compared to Templar's BoL, I failed to see how "Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp."
Have I made myself clear?
Yep. Crystal. It's clear you fail to see how Warden healers are far better bust AE healers than templars. Glad we agree the failure is yours.
Because they are not better burst AOE healers than Templars. Unless you can prove otherwise, which you haven't. I am all ears.
Since I keep reading that you've been a math genius since age 6, maybe look at the skills your own self and do the maths. It might be the first time you've studied them, for all I can tell. Or don't, it doesn't really matter what you think, TBH.
You are not a horse, it is not my job to lead you to water, much less to make you drink.
Never said I am a math genius, I only said i have been doing maths since age 6 (like, don't we all?), I didn't specifically mention how good I was.
So, maybe you just enjoy trash-talking and you can't prove how "Warden healers are far better bust AE healers than templars". Keep the trash-talk as you wish Warden aren't better "bust AE healers" (whatever it is) than Templars until proven otherwise.
They don't owe you an explanation, and neither do I. It has been pointed out to you 3 different ways in the last several pages, you seem to be unable to read posts that don't conform to your confirmation bias, so there is little point in writing another one. You can cherish whatever opinion you like about classes you don't play. They don't mind.
If you can't prove something, just say you can't prove it, it's totally fine.
There's no confirmation bias here, I am honestly curious about how Warden healers are better burst AOE healers than Templars, that's why I asked Gargis about it in a very polite and constructive way, but then you jumped in and you have pointed out to me 3 different ways in the last several pages that you only cared about trash-talking. So off with you, please stop sabotaging the constructive discussion between Gargis and me, go trash-talk elsewhere.
You didn't constructively do jack. You "noped" and condescended to others, and showed your @ss when it turned out you didn't even know what any of the warden spells do. You snarked from the peanut gallery and made other people do all the work of substanciating their arguments so you could just wave them away with a "nah!!"
It was proved 10 pages ago, when someone told you the combo that would out heal a templar over an area of effect. That's more work than I would have put in, TBH. It seems pretty evident and easily verifiable, I don't have to pile on. As in other threads, you make assertions that sound like facts and then make other people disprove them. When they do, you make their facts sound like assertions and make them prove them again. That's not how this is gonna work. YOU are the one who asserts Templars are better healers, so YOU prove it. I am not going to accept the burden of proving that wardens aren't somehow worse, that's like proving unicorns don't exist. That's a semantic trap that people set when their core premise sucks. I am not going to argue against you arguing against something. It's redonkulous. If you can argue FOR something then do it with facts of your own, or go back to the kid's table and play quietly. Maybe you can explain how the post nerf BoL is actually the key to glory for all healers even though it isn't very good? Or maybe you can prove the clap heal with the honkin' huge cast time is why Templar healz are OP? I dunno.
So moving on...
Edited by apostate9 on June 28, 2017 7:09PM1 -
Megabear✭✭✭✭✭
✭I went through a lot of "class clothes", and have finally settled on both Stam/Mag Wardens as my mains. I play one as a tank that can heal also, and another as healer that can also dps. I love that Wardens can do multiple jobs well, not #1 but can be #2 in two categories. I'll take the latter.Guide to making $$$ in Tamriel: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/370618/guide-to-making-gold-in-eso/p1?new=1
Cost analysis for potential ESO players: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/367919/cost-analysis-for-brand-new-potential-pc-eso-players#latest
Warden Bow Healer/DPS Hybrid Build: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/warden-bow-healerdps-hybrid/
Warden "The Warladin" Healer/Tank Hybrid Build: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/warden-the-warladin-healertank-hybrid-build/
Warden Stamina DPS Build: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/warden-dps-build/Server - PC/NA
Vhevet - (S) Night Blade/Female/Orsimer
Ecaer - (M) Templar/Female/Breton
Captain Beaster Bunny - (S) Warden/Male/Red Guard
Ezaera - (M) Sorcerer/Female/Altmer
Ecaeri - (M) Warden/Female/Argonian
Dun-and-Dunmer - (M) Dragon Knight/Male/Dunmer
What Can Go Wong - (S) Night Blade/Male/Bosmer
Izaer - (M) Templar/Male/Breton0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »don't forget, over healing is bad. That's what makes springs and other hots good.
Healing Springs is a Resto skill, Wardens have access to it, also Pollen, vines, and Nature's Grasp.
:-)
Ik, I'm referring to ppl saying burst healing is good0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm, no...warden is NOT a better overall healer. Warden IS a better overall support class offering defense buffs, regen buff, etc in ADDITION to healing...but will be outhealed by a templar every time, because a healer can heal exactly when they need too instead of waiting for the warden's delayed AoE heal to pop(AKA ritual is better than the warden's AoE heal, even if it heals for less)
I disagree, Temps have BOL or Hornor the Dead as their best burst healing, and It will out heal a Warden on a single target.
However, the Wardens Budding seeds can be applied to a single player or many and you can spam it as well, you just have to make sure that you place the heal on the person you want.
Other than ritual and Luminous shards, Wardens are better healers. But Wardens can use orbs which is not as good as Shards but its close enough. So it comes down to Ritual as the main difference.
Well, two things.
Firstly, Templar healers don't spam BoL. Warden healers definitely don't spam seed. Every healer spams spring, Templar healer, DK healer, Sorc healer etc, they all spam spring. BoL is only used in emergency situation, as in the main tank needs flash heal or someone is out of the spring's range and is on low health. Seed does not serve this purpose, if someone is out of position (so, out of spring's range), he is also out of seed's range.
Secondly, as all healers spam spring, Templar healers excel at this particular task, because they have access to easy-to-get minor mending which they can easily keep 100% uptime. So, their HPS with spring spamming will be stronger than other classes.
Sure , temps Springs will be stronger, but that is a moot point. For the same AE, a Warder does not need to spam Springs, they can put down one.....and wait for it......Seeds once and wait.....then activate when they need, so more the just theory, in practice, Wardens are better AE healer than templars will ever be.
Have you healed a vet trial with that playstyle?
The Warden healer in my raid group also spams spring.
There is no good reason to spam Springs as a Warden as I can see, it does not play to their strength as a healer. You know I main a Temp and did not want to even think that Wardens can be as good as a healer, but they are and when it comes to AE healing, they are better.
At this point I think they need to rescind the major healing nerf on Temps or increase the healing tics on Ritual, and by no small margin.
Come on bro, you can give me more than that. Have you tried seed spamming in a vet trial? Because the warden healer in my raid group also spams spring. No one questions the fact that warden are good healers, i am just skeptical that warden healers are better at burst AOE healing than templar healers.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »don't forget, over healing is bad. That's what makes springs and other hots good.
Healing Springs is a Resto skill, Wardens have access to it, also Pollen, vines, and Nature's Grasp.
:-)
Ik, I'm referring to ppl saying burst healing is good
Well it is, in many situations. Of course, HOTS definitely have their place, I don't disagree.
0 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »
I'd say the sorcery, shards, and minor fracture and breach make Templars better for trials.
I think this pretty much sums up the edge that Temps have over Warden...
However, I do believe that Wardens have a few ups vs Temps as well. Enchanted Growth comes to mind
Overall, I think that the 2 classes are almost equal when it comes to the healing role with the Temp being slightly better"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU0 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭.hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm nope. What do you mean by "burst AOE healing"? You mean spring spamming? Or what is that?
No no, man. I solo healed Normal AE trial and I did it primarily with Budding Seeds.
Take the Morph of Budding Seeds. Drop it, let it sit, if none is taking burst damage let its time expire and then drop another.
When the boss are doing their AE burst damage on the raid, you can activate the bloom by pressing the ability again. You do not have to wait on the timer to expire. Cast it over and over and it does massive burst AE healing.
When your magica starts to get low, pop your heal ult. Back bar your buffs including betty and your good to go again.
Caveat: The raid has to be close enough together to be in the circle of the heal, but its big enough to get the job done.
Well I solo healed a normal trial once with my magsorc DD with a restro staff. We were like "there's no healer lol", and I was like "it's fine let me get my restro staff" and it worked.
You can't use your healing ult in vet trial environment, because healers have to run warhorn. As I have said in the previous post, as a healer you should spam spring, not seed. BoL and Seed are two different abilities which serve two different purposes. BoL is an emergency heal when someone is out of position, seed is used along side with spring to boost HPS and occasionally burst heal (if everyone is in position), but mostly to improve HPS. Seed is also much harder to use.
Sure, If I was not the only healer in that Trial I agree. But solo, you have to do what you must to keep ppl up. And no, you don't have to do anything.
And you are missing the point. Wardens Seeds is so good that you don't have to spam springs. You cast it and wait, activate when you need and repeat. Temps have to spam Springs because its a weak spell and they need to get some crits on it. That is not the case with Seeds.
As a warden you cast Springs then seeds and wait.. Temp, you are just about required to spam Springs because that and ritual on top of it is so weak you have to spam.
Go play a Warden and test out Seeds. Its a far better heal that Springs and almost rivals BOL, yet it is AE. The point is that Spring and Seeds is better burst healing compared to Springs and Ritual.
Have you healed a vet trial with seed spamming? The thing is, what you do in a normal trial doesn't translate into vet trial environment. People have been tanking normal trials in medium armour, but it doesn't translate well into vet trials.
The Warden healer in my raid group also spams spring.
To be fair, vMOL has been tanked in medium armor.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA1 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »I'm enjoying this debate. I play a magplar healer and enjoy her very much. I'm simply delighted that the warden is creating more interest in healing. I want to see more healers of all kinds. My preference for templars is mostly a roleplay thing (holy knight...). I've known that sorcs make fine healers and am now happy to see that wardens do as well. Not that NB and DK don't - just don't know much about them as healers.
I typically find this not to be the case in games like this. Sure it creates intrest and people talk about it. But it doesn't lead to more healers. It just makes people that we're probably already healing think about changing into something new. Tanking suffers from the same problem usually. Adding tanking specs/classes usually doesn't lead to an over all increase in tanks. It just moves those that already exsist if around.
0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm nope. What do you mean by "burst AOE healing"? You mean spring spamming? Or what is that?
So what you're saying is...you were unaware that warden healers have a a couple of great burst heals? I woulda led with that, admitting your ignorance of the class would have been more honest than making up class deficiencies that don't exist.
Um no, I was asking what he meant by "burst AOE healing". Is spring considered "burst AOE healing"? Is the healing ult considered burst "burst AOE healing"? Is the delayed heal considered "burst AOE healing"? Or he just meant the warden's BoL? Because Warden's BoL is inferior compared to Templar's BoL, I failed to see how "Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp."
Have I made myself clear?
Yep. Crystal. It's clear you fail to see how Warden healers are far better bust AE healers than templars. Glad we agree the failure is yours.
Because they are not better burst AOE healers than Templars. Unless you can prove otherwise, which you haven't. I am all ears.
Since I keep reading that you've been a math genius since age 6, maybe look at the skills your own self and do the maths. It might be the first time you've studied them, for all I can tell. Or don't, it doesn't really matter what you think, TBH.
You are not a horse, it is not my job to lead you to water, much less to make you drink.
Never said I am a math genius, I only said i have been doing maths since age 6 (like, don't we all?), I didn't specifically mention how good I was.
So, maybe you just enjoy trash-talking and you can't prove how "Warden healers are far better bust AE healers than templars". Keep the trash-talk as you wish Warden aren't better "bust AE healers" (whatever it is) than Templars until proven otherwise.
They don't owe you an explanation, and neither do I. It has been pointed out to you 3 different ways in the last several pages, you seem to be unable to read posts that don't conform to your confirmation bias, so there is little point in writing another one. You can cherish whatever opinion you like about classes you don't play. They don't mind.
If you can't prove something, just say you can't prove it, it's totally fine.
There's no confirmation bias here, I am honestly curious about how Warden healers are better burst AOE healers than Templars, that's why I asked Gargis about it in a very polite and constructive way, but then you jumped in and you have pointed out to me 3 different ways in the last several pages that you only cared about trash-talking. So off with you, please stop sabotaging the constructive discussion between Gargis and me, go trash-talk elsewhere.
You didn't constructively do jack. You "noped" and condescended to others, and showed your @ss when it turned out you didn't even know what any of the warden spells do.
It was proved 10 pages ago. You'd rather stalk me then address the guy who answered your question several different ways. So moving on...
See, trash-talking again. Everyone who has read the last 2 pages can see that everything you have said about me was false, I was honestly curious about how Warden healers are better burst AOE healers, Gargis and I have been having a constructive discussion. I don't know what's the deal you have against me that you really feel the need to trashtalk me (like, did I steal your sweetroll or something?), and I don't care, you are irrelevant, just another trashtalker on the internet. So, off with you.
I have made my arguments on how I think Templar healers are slightly better in the discussion with Gargis, not that you would notice anyway because you only care about trashtalking.
Lol the thread has 4 pages, yeah it was definitely proved 10 pages ago. Stalk you? Tell that to the person who immediately trashtalked and insulted me when simply asked someone else "What do you mean by "burst AOE healing"?". You have problems, my friend, do you want to talk them all out?Edited by hmsdragonfly on June 28, 2017 6:50PMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp.
I play both, and the Warden is a better healer overall.
Luminous Shards and Cleanse is the only thing that Temps have over Wardens.
Even w/o the nerf to BOL Wardens are better.
Umm nope. What do you mean by "burst AOE healing"? You mean spring spamming? Or what is that?
So what you're saying is...you were unaware that warden healers have a a couple of great burst heals? I woulda led with that, admitting your ignorance of the class would have been more honest than making up class deficiencies that don't exist.
Um no, I was asking what he meant by "burst AOE healing". Is spring considered "burst AOE healing"? Is the healing ult considered burst "burst AOE healing"? Is the delayed heal considered "burst AOE healing"? Or he just meant the warden's BoL? Because Warden's BoL is inferior compared to Templar's BoL, I failed to see how "Warden healers are far better burst AE healing compared to Temp."
Have I made myself clear?
Yep. Crystal. It's clear you fail to see how Warden healers are far better bust AE healers than templars. Glad we agree the failure is yours.
Because they are not better burst AOE healers than Templars. Unless you can prove otherwise, which you haven't. I am all ears.
Since I keep reading that you've been a math genius since age 6, maybe look at the skills your own self and do the maths. It might be the first time you've studied them, for all I can tell. Or don't, it doesn't really matter what you think, TBH.
You are not a horse, it is not my job to lead you to water, much less to make you drink.
Never said I am a math genius, I only said i have been doing maths since age 6 (like, don't we all?), I didn't specifically mention how good I was.
So, maybe you just enjoy trash-talking and you can't prove how "Warden healers are far better bust AE healers than templars". Keep the trash-talk as you wish Warden aren't better "bust AE healers" (whatever it is) than Templars until proven otherwise.
They don't owe you an explanation, and neither do I. It has been pointed out to you 3 different ways in the last several pages, you seem to be unable to read posts that don't conform to your confirmation bias, so there is little point in writing another one. You can cherish whatever opinion you like about classes you don't play. They don't mind.
If you can't prove something, just say you can't prove it, it's totally fine.
There's no confirmation bias here, I am honestly curious about how Warden healers are better burst AOE healers than Templars, that's why I asked Gargis about it in a very polite and constructive way, but then you jumped in and you have pointed out to me 3 different ways in the last several pages that you only cared about trash-talking. So off with you, please stop sabotaging the constructive discussion between Gargis and me, go trash-talk elsewhere.
You didn't constructively do jack. You "noped" and condescended to others, and showed your @ss when it turned out you didn't even know what any of the warden spells do.
It was proved 10 pages ago. You'd rather stalk me then address the guy who answered your question several different ways. So moving on...
See, trash-talking again. Everyone who has read the last 2 pages can see that everything you have said about me was false, I was honestly curious about how Warden healers are better burst AOE healers, Gargis and I have been having a constructive discussion. I don't know what's the deal you have against me that you really feel the need to trashtalk me (like, did I steal your sweetroll or something?), and I don't care, you are irrelevant, just another trashtalker on the internet. So, off with you.
I have made my arguments on how I think Templar healers are slightly better in the discussion with Gargis, not that you would notice anyway because you only care about trashtalking.
Lol the thread has 4 pages, yeah it was definitely proved 10 pages ago. Stalk you? Tell that to the person who immediately trashtalked and insulted me when simply asked someone else "What do you mean by "burst AOE healing"?". You have problems, my friend, do you want to talk them all out?
Nope. Talking to you is basically like going to a Monty Python argument clinic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
Edited by apostate9 on June 28, 2017 6:54PM0