[Suggestion] Do not allow lowbies queue to Veteran dungeons

idk · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

SilverWF wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

I simply do not care about dungeons and hardly do in weeks.

If i found lowbie DPS then i quit and requeue after 15 mins..

... to met another one?

Not sir, let they sit in their lowbie playgrounds (normal).

It seems all you care about is how fast your runs go and if you can take their loot afterwards. Cause I saw you edited the OP to include that lowbies don't have gear you can share with them, you said "At least, I still can share gear with them." in reference to 160+ CP players. Thinking only of yourself, cause you could share your gear with lowbies and they could use it later on but you said you could not share it with them, which means you only thought about what you need.

You want everything to go smooth for you, THEN WHY DO YOU USE THE GROUP FINDER? WHY DO YOU PUG? I sincerely don't get this type of mentality. Are you not in a guild? Is your friends list empty? If you are so demanding of your fellow dungeon runners then why don't you just hand pick them yourself from guilds or friends? Seems like an awful waste for everyone that you do not. The PUG's gets someone that don't want to teach and you don't get your precious speed gear runs.

For anyone that is worried about the quality of the players they run with, DON"T JOIN PICK UP GROUPS! Create your own team and run with them, if you do not then you can't complain. You knew what you were getting in too. Barring people from certain aspects of the game will not help them in learning the mechanics or how to better master their class and role, it will forces them to get slightly higher CP, WHICH DOES NOTHING! I have seen people on the forums say that they Auto kick people that are not at CP cap and that they hated the double exp events cause it ruined the game cause it lowered the time high CP players had to spend to get there, lowering the average skill of a top CP player. CP means NOTHING in regards to how good a player is, and giving them more CP will not automatically make them better players. TEACH AND MOTIVATE, don't abandon and shame. Only if the lowbies outright reject and or get angry when you try to help them is it ok to do anything other than that.

This works in the both sides:
IF YOU WANNA TEACH SOME LOWBIES then announce it in the zone chat, find 3 lowbie and go with them to the any dungeon you want. Let DF to only that guys, who already knows his classes and builds pretty well!

But not, it is not desirable scenario for you. You just wanna keep some "white-forums-knight" view without real desire to help lowbies.

Pathetic

Pathetic response. Truly sad but explains much about the OP.

Zos give you options. GF for random players and for those that want a specific group, say for a speed run with HM at the end one can form the group themselves.

Really great design.

Vaoh · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

It sounds like a mean poll option, but in reality this is doing every single player a favor. Being the dude that says it's too mean to do this is cool until you come across these terrible group finder situations yourself. Practically all of them disband, and those that succeed include lowbie players being carried by good players with no one leaving happy about it.

*There is nothing wrong with not being effective at a role in the game.*
If you want to light attack your way to victory with Destro and Bow build while queued as a Tank on your Nord DK then more power to you..... just don't hold others back. ZOS has caused these current and longstanding issues by providing us no tutorial for dungeons that teach you how to play your role.

I have run with and carried tons of groups overtime because of this. The amount of groups I have had to carry by playing multiple roles at once to compensate for others is unbelievable. Even then, many groups I have been in had to disband because 1 good DPS isn't always enough to carry a hopeless group. Spending 90min in vCoA II and disbanding after 2 attempts at Valkyn Skoria is NOT fun.

If that lowbie is the DPS, then a second DPS capable of playing through Vet trials (miniscule amount of players) can definitely carry them. If both DPS suck, you could be in there for 2+ hrs without completing. If the tank or healer are completely incapable of fulfilling their roles, it is possible that you will disband (unless there is magically a great player capable of carrying everyone ofc) at the first boss.

I would suggest having a Beginner Dungeon Role Tutorial for CP1-CP159 players, and locking off Veteran group finder for them. Once they reach CP160, an Advanced Dungeon Role Tutorial becomes available to teach players how to somewhat efficiently play roles. After passing this tutorial, they can queue in Vet dungeons.

Just my thoughts on this after playing since console launch and helping hundreds of groups get through content they normally wouldn't.

idk · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Vaoh wrote: »

It sounds like a mean poll option, but in reality this is doing every single player a favor. Being the dude that says it's too mean to do this is cool until you come across these terrible group finder situations yourself. Practically all of them disband, and those that succeed include lowbie players being carried by good players with no one leaving happy about it.

*There is nothing wrong with not being effective at a role in the game.*
If you want to light attack your way to victory with Destro and Bow build while queued as a Tank on your Nord DK then more power to you..... just don't hold others back. ZOS has caused these current and longstanding issues by providing us no tutorial for dungeons that teach you how to play your role.

I have run with and carried tons of groups overtime because of this. The amount of groups I have had to carry by playing multiple roles at once to compensate for others is unbelievable. Even then, many groups I have been in had to disband because 1 good DPS isn't always enough to carry a hopeless group. Spending 90min in vCoA II and disbanding after 2 attempts at Valkyn Skoria is NOT fun.

If that lowbie is the DPS, then a second DPS capable of playing through Vet trials (miniscule amount of players) can definitely carry them. If both DPS suck, you could be in there for 2+ hrs without completing. If the tank or healer are completely incapable of fulfilling their roles, it is possible that you will disband (unless there is magically a great player capable of carrying everyone ofc) at the first boss.

I would suggest having a Beginner Dungeon Role Tutorial for CP1-CP159 players, and locking off Veteran group finder for them. Once they reach CP160, an Advanced Dungeon Role Tutorial becomes available to teach players how to somewhat efficiently play roles. After passing this tutorial, they can queue in Vet dungeons.

Just my thoughts on this after playing since console launch and helping hundreds of groups get through content they normally wouldn't.

The premise that CP is a guiding factor is false. I've seen plenty of random groups with high CP dps and rarely do they breach 40k combines. I'm surprisingly pleased when I see 20k combined dps and most of the time it's which groups well past CP160. I've seen plenty of sub CP160 players that did quite well.

As @paulsimonps has stated, players can grind CP so it's not an indicator of a solid player. I've also seen lower CP players that seem to do well. Even in cases where I'm replacing a tank that dropped from a groups, which one would think the group is that bad, we have cleared the dungeon with ease. Sometime after explaining the fight. Sometimes it may merely be that they needed a tank that knew how to handle the boss or something.

Granted, when I'm doing HM pledges I don't use GF since it makes more sense to pull from guild.

SilverWF · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Vaoh wrote: »

It sounds like a mean poll option, but in reality this is doing every single player a favor. Being the dude that says it's too mean to do this is cool until you come across these terrible group finder situations yourself. Practically all of them disband, and those that succeed include lowbie players being carried by good players.

*There is nothing wrong with not being effective at a role in the game.*
If you want to light attack your way to victory with Destro and Bow build while queued as a Tank on your Nord DK then more power to you..... just don't hold others back. ZOS has caused these current and longstanding issues by providing us no tutorial for dungeons that teach you how to play your role.

I have run with and carried tons of groups overtime because of this. The amount of groups I have had to carry by playing multiple roles at once to compensate for others is unbelievable. Even then, many groups I have been in had to disband because 1 good DPS isn't always enough to carry a good group. Spending 90min in vCoA II and disbanding after 2 attempts at Valkyn Skoria is NOT fun.

If that lowbie is the DPS, then a second DPS capable of playing through Vet trials (miniscule amount of players) can definitely carry them. If both DPS suck, you could be in there for 2+ hrs without completing. If the tank or healer are completely incapable of fulfilling their roles, it is possible that you will disband (unless there is magically a great player capable of carrying everyone ofc) at the first boss.

I would suggest locking off Veteran group finder for below CP160 players, and then opening it up with an "advanced tutorial" for all roles to teach players how to play.

Just my thoughts on this after playing since console launch and helping hundreds of groups get through content they normally wouldn't.

Overall I can agree with out, but not with tutorial part.
Why? I'll try to explain...
In ZOS mind there is NO hard roles and right ways to play - 'play the way you want', right?
All of that ways and builds was found by community and shared many times on numerous sources.
So, if ZOS would take it to tutorials, then, by this they would agreed that their game is not that they are desired to be.
Would never happens

I'm still stand on statement, that everyone able to know his role well if he knows his class well.

Knowledge of bosses mechs is not main part and can be trained on normal.
I.e. FG1 last boss AOE. At normal it can be ignored by everyone, but everyone would know that it is exists here.
At vet that AOE would oneshot everyone, and only good tank can easily survive this, and keeping boss at the same place (in AOE obviously - that's how good tanks doing their job). But to good player only one death in that AOE would be enough to understand it and avoid it next time. Dumb moron Unfamiliar with that dungeon and capabilities of his class player would die here every time until someone would write in chat "avoid AOE idiot!"
This is just a short and simple example.

Another example
Late night, I'm at tank, we have lowbie healer (templar - not bad already). This is random daily for me, dungeon sets are not too important was there, and after tests healer shows himself as not bad. So let's just complete it and that's it.
Ok, 1 boss passed, another one, then I realised that I'm going out of stam pretty fast even with potions. It was pretty late time and I was tired, so didn't noticed that: he has no shards or orbs. Just zero.
Ok, asked him nicely to do his support job. He answered, that he didn't has this skills and no SP to take it right now. Then, I said, the he is just healer, not real support, and recommended to not q to vet anymore. Oh boy, what a hell started there! "I'm not must to follow Deltia guides, everything was fine with another tanks, how long are you playing ESo daily" and another stuff about job and family. Literally, all party chat becomes spammed with this.
I didn't said anything, ignored him and just left

AzraelKrieg · June 2017

This is still going? You guys need to join guilds and stop using the damn grouping tool. Maybe then you won't complain so much about lowbies using the grouping tool. Assuming the thing works at all.

JR_Returns · June 2017

I've done lots of vet dungeons with low level players and never had any problems. In fact I've had more problems with the elitist trash that won't help lowbie players develop.

Also for those of you that haven't played the game from the start, veteran is lvl 50+, CP160 is or was lvl V16, so any CP can do vet dungeons because they are vet lvl. This problem has occurred because ZOS changed the game. I can now easily do a normal group dungeon on a lvl10 character. When I started playing the game if you'd tried that you'd have been dead before you got 3 feet down the entrance passage.

What ZOS should do is make a group finder category where you get better rewards for taking lowbies with you. That way the lowbies would get to do dungeons with players willing to help them and the players wanting to do farming would be happy. Although I can't understand why anyone with any sense would go farming with randoms, still it takes all sorts.

SilverWF · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

JR_Returns wrote: »

Also for those of you that haven't played the game from the start, veteran is lvl 50+, CP160 is or was lvl V16, so any CP can do vet dungeons because they are vet lvl.

Yes, I've already explained this at prev. page, please be nice and read it.
In short: in the current gamestate, 50lvl is not an actual veteran. And this is not a real achievement, even if game achi system still has it.

Chilly-McFreeze · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

SilverWF wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

It sounds like a mean poll option, but in reality this is doing every single player a favor. Being the dude that says it's too mean to do this is cool until you come across these terrible group finder situations yourself. Practically all of them disband, and those that succeed include lowbie players being carried by good players.

*There is nothing wrong with not being effective at a role in the game.*
If you want to light attack your way to victory with Destro and Bow build while queued as a Tank on your Nord DK then more power to you..... just don't hold others back. ZOS has caused these current and longstanding issues by providing us no tutorial for dungeons that teach you how to play your role.

I have run with and carried tons of groups overtime because of this. The amount of groups I have had to carry by playing multiple roles at once to compensate for others is unbelievable. Even then, many groups I have been in had to disband because 1 good DPS isn't always enough to carry a good group. Spending 90min in vCoA II and disbanding after 2 attempts at Valkyn Skoria is NOT fun.

If that lowbie is the DPS, then a second DPS capable of playing through Vet trials (miniscule amount of players) can definitely carry them. If both DPS suck, you could be in there for 2+ hrs without completing. If the tank or healer are completely incapable of fulfilling their roles, it is possible that you will disband (unless there is magically a great player capable of carrying everyone ofc) at the first boss.

I would suggest locking off Veteran group finder for below CP160 players, and then opening it up with an "advanced tutorial" for all roles to teach players how to play.

Just my thoughts on this after playing since console launch and helping hundreds of groups get through content they normally wouldn't.

Overall I can agree with out, but not with tutorial part.
Why? I'll try to explain...
In ZOS mind there is NO hard roles and right ways to play - 'play the way you want', right?
All of that ways and builds was found by community and shared many times on numerous sources.
So, if ZOS would take it tutorials, then, by this they would agreed that their game is not that they are desired to be.
Would never happens

[...]

Dumb moron Unfamiliar with that dungeon and capabilities of his class player would die here every time until someone would write in chat "avoid AOE idiot!"

[...]

Quote shorted for convenience

What role would it enforce when the tutorial explained to not stand in red, how usefull it is to mix DoTs, LA and spammables, how ultimate and resources are regenerated and about the importance of CCs? In a perfect world they would take it so far that they actual mention the different roles for group content.

On the second part... it really shows what kind of guy you are if you have to throw in general insults. It also shows how much effort you want to put in. Just hang with your guildies, if you even have some, and leave lowbies alone. Especially if the heart of your desire is their gear.

idk · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

SilverWF wrote: »

JR_Returns wrote: »

Also for those of you that haven't played the game from the start, veteran is lvl 50+, CP160 is or was lvl V16, so any CP can do vet dungeons because they are vet lvl.

Yes, I've already explained this at prev. page, please be nice and read it.
In short: in the current gamestate, 50lvl is not an actual veteran. And this is not a real achievement, even if game achi system still has it.

In the current game state lvl 50 is a veteran. Those of us that were clearing vet dungeons back in April 2014 can vouch that we were not scaled to the dungeons. Half of them were vet 10 (cp 100 equivelent) and all of them were above our level since we used them to grind to v10. All of them we a bit more challenging back then due to the multiple nerfs dungeons as a whole has received. Plain and simple facts.

If you want us to read your previous post in this you can repost it again. However, my statement and the @JR_Returns statement are factually correct so I doubt you were starting anything other than factasy in an attempt to support your misguided stance you make in this thread.

SilverWF · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

It sounds like a mean poll option, but in reality this is doing every single player a favor. Being the dude that says it's too mean to do this is cool until you come across these terrible group finder situations yourself. Practically all of them disband, and those that succeed include lowbie players being carried by good players.

*There is nothing wrong with not being effective at a role in the game.*
If you want to light attack your way to victory with Destro and Bow build while queued as a Tank on your Nord DK then more power to you..... just don't hold others back. ZOS has caused these current and longstanding issues by providing us no tutorial for dungeons that teach you how to play your role.

I have run with and carried tons of groups overtime because of this. The amount of groups I have had to carry by playing multiple roles at once to compensate for others is unbelievable. Even then, many groups I have been in had to disband because 1 good DPS isn't always enough to carry a good group. Spending 90min in vCoA II and disbanding after 2 attempts at Valkyn Skoria is NOT fun.

If that lowbie is the DPS, then a second DPS capable of playing through Vet trials (miniscule amount of players) can definitely carry them. If both DPS suck, you could be in there for 2+ hrs without completing. If the tank or healer are completely incapable of fulfilling their roles, it is possible that you will disband (unless there is magically a great player capable of carrying everyone ofc) at the first boss.

I would suggest locking off Veteran group finder for below CP160 players, and then opening it up with an "advanced tutorial" for all roles to teach players how to play.

Just my thoughts on this after playing since console launch and helping hundreds of groups get through content they normally wouldn't.

Overall I can agree with out, but not with tutorial part.
Why? I'll try to explain...
In ZOS mind there is NO hard roles and right ways to play - 'play the way you want', right?
All of that ways and builds was found by community and shared many times on numerous sources.
So, if ZOS would take it tutorials, then, by this they would agreed that their game is not that they are desired to be.
Would never happens

[...]

Dumb moron Unfamiliar with that dungeon and capabilities of his class player would die here every time until someone would write in chat "avoid AOE idiot!"

[...]

Quote shorted for convenience

What role would it enforce when the tutorial explained to not stand in red, how usefull it is to mix DoTs, LA and spammables, how ultimate and resources are regenerated and about the importance of CCs? In a perfect world they would take it so far that they actual mention the different roles for group content.

On the second part... it really shows what kind of guy you are if you have to throw in general insults. It also shows how much effort you want to put in. Just hang with your guildies, if you even have some, and leave lowbies alone. Especially if the heart of your desire is their gear.

You just afraid to show yourself as "bad" guy. "Oh no, I MUST be tolerated to them", right?

But this is just a view, a mask, without real desire to help them become better. "All is OK, you are fine" in mouth and "Oh God, save me from meeting him again" in mind.
No way, if someone bad I would always say him about that, but would also try to explain where and why.
That's a difference between cultures.

Just be fair with yourself at least.

Or I missed something and you are gathering lowbies on carry runs?

josiahva · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Its perfectly fine the way it is. If you arent skillful enough to to make lemonade from the lemons a pug group hands you, thats your problem, in that case, dont pug. I personally enjoy pug groups full of unskilled players. Yes, its true that it makes the dungeon far more difficult to complete, take longer, etc. The benefit is that I become a better player pugging unskilled groups, and I teach them the dungeon and any fights with tricky mechanics...meaning that next time they are in a pug, they are better and have the knowledge to help players like the OP complete their random dungeons. It says VET dungeon...that means, anyone who has reached level 50 has earned the right to try them. They will quickly learn they have bitten off more than they can chew if they are continually dying. There is nothing more miserable than dying more than a few times in a dungeon, it makes you either learn the mechanics, or get more exp before you try again. I have lost count of the number of times I have explained the inhibitor fight in vWGT, or Velidreth, or Xal-Nur...but I dont mind explaining the fight and answering the questions...remember, we were all there at one point. I remember how miserable my first few tries at vCoS were, now vCoS is probably my favorite dungeon in the game because its so well designed, followed by vWGT.

Chilly-McFreeze · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

SilverWF wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

It sounds like a mean poll option, but in reality this is doing every single player a favor. Being the dude that says it's too mean to do this is cool until you come across these terrible group finder situations yourself. Practically all of them disband, and those that succeed include lowbie players being carried by good players.

*There is nothing wrong with not being effective at a role in the game.*
If you want to light attack your way to victory with Destro and Bow build while queued as a Tank on your Nord DK then more power to you..... just don't hold others back. ZOS has caused these current and longstanding issues by providing us no tutorial for dungeons that teach you how to play your role.

I have run with and carried tons of groups overtime because of this. The amount of groups I have had to carry by playing multiple roles at once to compensate for others is unbelievable. Even then, many groups I have been in had to disband because 1 good DPS isn't always enough to carry a good group. Spending 90min in vCoA II and disbanding after 2 attempts at Valkyn Skoria is NOT fun.

If that lowbie is the DPS, then a second DPS capable of playing through Vet trials (miniscule amount of players) can definitely carry them. If both DPS suck, you could be in there for 2+ hrs without completing. If the tank or healer are completely incapable of fulfilling their roles, it is possible that you will disband (unless there is magically a great player capable of carrying everyone ofc) at the first boss.

I would suggest locking off Veteran group finder for below CP160 players, and then opening it up with an "advanced tutorial" for all roles to teach players how to play.

Just my thoughts on this after playing since console launch and helping hundreds of groups get through content they normally wouldn't.

Overall I can agree with out, but not with tutorial part.
Why? I'll try to explain...
In ZOS mind there is NO hard roles and right ways to play - 'play the way you want', right?
All of that ways and builds was found by community and shared many times on numerous sources.
So, if ZOS would take it tutorials, then, by this they would agreed that their game is not that they are desired to be.
Would never happens

[...]

Dumb moron Unfamiliar with that dungeon and capabilities of his class player would die here every time until someone would write in chat "avoid AOE idiot!"

[...]

Quote shorted for convenience

What role would it enforce when the tutorial explained to not stand in red, how usefull it is to mix DoTs, LA and spammables, how ultimate and resources are regenerated and about the importance of CCs? In a perfect world they would take it so far that they actual mention the different roles for group content.

On the second part... it really shows what kind of guy you are if you have to throw in general insults. It also shows how much effort you want to put in. Just hang with your guildies, if you even have some, and leave lowbies alone. Especially if the heart of your desire is their gear.

You just afraid to show yourself as "bad" guy. "Oh no, I MUST be tolerated to them", right? But this is just a view, a mask, without real desire to help them become better. "All is OK, you are fine" in mouth and "Oh God, save me from meeting him again" in mind.
No way, if someone bad I would always say him about that, but would also try to explain where and why.
That's a difference between cultures.

Just be fair with yourself at least.

Or I missed something and you are gathering lowbies on carry runs?

I never kicked anyone, no matter how many cp or how bad they were. I also never left bc my group was inexperienced or low-cp. If that is what you're asking. I don't know why this is about putting me in a bad light instead of staying on topic. But it's also not the first time I see you pulling stuff like this.

BTW how many times did you ignore the point of my posts now? I shorten and repeat them for you.

What roles would it enforce if the turorial would explain basic mechanics like: red circles, important of rotations, telegraphs, the idea behind the roles in group composition?

What difference does it make from an PoV of experience and player skill to jump from cp159 to cp160?

Why don't you run with your guild mates instead of demanding to take content away from lowlevel players?

Is this because you're avid to get their drops?

While we're add it, you argue about ESO standing for play-as-you-want, therefore putting up better turorials would only enforce hard roles. But then you want to take away the possibility to access vet dungeons for cp players under xCP. Doesn't that clash with the One Tamriel approach, doing anything everytime with anyone? One time you're pro "ESO stands for this", the next time you completly ignore what ESO stands for. You betray your principles with this.

Asardes · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

I started doing the vet pledges as soon as I hit 50 and finished them almost every time. No reason to wait. On the other hand I've seen CP600+ players who can barely pull their weight in normal dungeons.

craftycarper73 · June 2017

i for one never realised you cant learn these dungeons unless you are max level.

playing vet dungeons at lower level in my eyes helps with the learning curve, if the op doesnt want to do them with new players or vet players levelling a new charachter the answer is simple, dont use the LFG and get 4 friends together and run them.

paulsimonps · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

SilverWF wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

I simply do not care about dungeons and hardly do in weeks.

If i found lowbie DPS then i quit and requeue after 15 mins..

... to met another one?

Not sir, let they sit in their lowbie playgrounds (normal).

It seems all you care about is how fast your runs go and if you can take their loot afterwards. Cause I saw you edited the OP to include that lowbies don't have gear you can share with them, you said "At least, I still can share gear with them." in reference to 160+ CP players. Thinking only of yourself, cause you could share your gear with lowbies and they could use it later on but you said you could not share it with them, which means you only thought about what you need.

You want everything to go smooth for you, THEN WHY DO YOU USE THE GROUP FINDER? WHY DO YOU PUG? I sincerely don't get this type of mentality. Are you not in a guild? Is your friends list empty? If you are so demanding of your fellow dungeon runners then why don't you just hand pick them yourself from guilds or friends? Seems like an awful waste for everyone that you do not. The PUG's gets someone that don't want to teach and you don't get your precious speed gear runs.

For anyone that is worried about the quality of the players they run with, DON"T JOIN PICK UP GROUPS! Create your own team and run with them, if you do not then you can't complain. You knew what you were getting in too. Barring people from certain aspects of the game will not help them in learning the mechanics or how to better master their class and role, it will forces them to get slightly higher CP, WHICH DOES NOTHING! I have seen people on the forums say that they Auto kick people that are not at CP cap and that they hated the double exp events cause it ruined the game cause it lowered the time high CP players had to spend to get there, lowering the average skill of a top CP player. CP means NOTHING in regards to how good a player is, and giving them more CP will not automatically make them better players. TEACH AND MOTIVATE, don't abandon and shame. Only if the lowbies outright reject and or get angry when you try to help them is it ok to do anything other than that.

This works in the both sides:
IF YOU WANNA TEACH SOME LOWBIES then announce it in the zone chat, find 3 lowbie and go with them to the any dungeon you want. Let DF to only that guys, who already knows his classes and builds pretty well!

But not, it is not desirable scenario for you. You just wanna keep some "white-forums-knight" view without real desire to help lowbies.

Pathetic

You are very quick to try and guilt and shame people. Do you know me? How do you know I don't do what you already stated? You don't, but obviously me saying otherwise will not persuade you. However that still doesn't change the fact that your views are selfish and won't help the lowbies at all, and you still missed my point that even if you ban them from certain content, they still won't be magically more capable at said content for having grinded CP instead of practicing mechanics.

And your comment, "it works both ways".... How does that fit in? You don't want to teach, you want easy speed runs for gear and keys. But you don't want to put the effort into forming a group from guilds and friends. And I teach whenever I pug and I see they need help. Are you saying that those that want to teach should be the only once that should and that the Group Finder should be only for "good" players? Disgusting.

The group finder is for everyone, for those that have yet to find in game friends, for those that don't have a solid guild yet, for those that prefer to be more solo but still want to do group content. Its not your pick and choose how you want buffet of "good" players that can carry you to victory.

Stop trying to ban people you think are not adequate from content you want to PUG and come up with constructive ways to help people through it better. Some of us posts guides and detailed explanation of either boss or game mechanics, or lead raid for people that want to learn, or maybe take chance and invite someone to your guild and help them along, whatever that can further the community. What have you done to help the community?

Magdalina · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

SilverWF wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

It's not possible to level the Undaunted skill line efficiently without running veteran dungeons.

I've completed plenty of vet dungeons with players in the CP10-CP159 range. Hell, I did a no-death speed run through vet Elden Hollow I with a group of players all around CP100. Aside from the DLC dungeons, it's not an issues as long as you've got 1 or 2 good, leveled, geared-up players in the group.

I don't think there really needs to be any gatekeeping here. If queueing up and getting a group of people who might need some help getting through the content is not acceptable to you, then don't use the queue.

It is absolutely possible to level Undaunted skill line by doing:
Normal dungeons
Pledges on normal
Borgul delve tasks

No death speed run in the EH1? Seriously? Did you missed part about easy-1-dungeons?

Ok, you can carry 1 lowbie. Nice, me too. Can, but not must and has no will for it.
Let's imagine, that you are entering to DsC2 and see there 2 lowbies. Would you carry them?
Would you carry 3 lowbies? This is possible - that's were a reason to me to start this thread.
So answer please: would you carry them? You said, that lowbies is OK, then, you would carry 3 lowbies? Or you lied?

squinceybones wrote: »

I am disagreeing with what you want, because you have been quite rude to people in the past.

Oh please, no, I'm so care!
Not.

Flameheart wrote: »

His rudenness
...
such things like

I don't thinks it is rude to ask to fix some obvious problems.

And not, sure, this is not wise and not OK, but you can't program it.
But restrict access to vet dungeons by CP-lvl would be pretty easy.

There is a problem but it is not lowbies being allowed in vet dungeons. It's players on the whole, <lvl 50, >lvl 50 and >cp 160 alike, having 0 incentive to improve until they start doing vet dungeons. Do cp 30 I find via groupfinder usually suck? Not gonna lie, yeah most of them do.

Do cp 160 I find via groupfinder suck less? Nope, they're equally or more (no more battle leveling) bad usually because they were told to grind to cp 160 and they did, but there wasn't a l2p element anywhere along the way. Do cp 300+ I pug perform better? Some do, most are just as clueless. I've met at least 3 DK tanks in my last few pugs, all in 250 cp+ area, to whom I had to explain what chains, talons and wings are. One actually told me he has no wings-resembling skill because he's not a Warden. See the pattern yet?

Do cp 600+ perform better? Well...sometimes. Being exposed to the game for a long while makes them more likely to figure out their imperfections. But I still see cp 630 spamming 1 attack throughout the whole dungeon, be it aoe or single target, cp 630 tanks with 17k health and healers with 13k health who haven't the foggiest about mechanics nor their class. And, shock of the year, the cp 100 healer I had in vWGT the other day was heaps better than, say, the cp 630 healer with 13k health I ended up with in a pug before. Not just that but cp 100 actually listened to advices whereas cp 630 seemed happy enough to spend the fight dead with me(dps) healing even despite me offering them food.

They're not gonna get better by having more cp. Only way they will(if at all) is by doing content that actually makes them reconsider their build and rotation, which therefore should be done as soon as possible so there're less clueless players out there, not more.

Pepper8Jack · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

A player's level or number of champion points is not even remotely indicative of said player's knowledge, skill, or ability.

There are plenty of CP 630 players who have no idea what they're doing, no idea how to build a character, and have no idea how to play their role.

LadyDestiny · June 2017

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT wrote: »

Good but how do you stop these new char with shared champion points?

I see level30 who I think are noobs but have 600CP.

Are you saying you want to grind to 630 on every character?

josiahva · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Magdalina wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

It's not possible to level the Undaunted skill line efficiently without running veteran dungeons.

I've completed plenty of vet dungeons with players in the CP10-CP159 range. Hell, I did a no-death speed run through vet Elden Hollow I with a group of players all around CP100. Aside from the DLC dungeons, it's not an issues as long as you've got 1 or 2 good, leveled, geared-up players in the group.

I don't think there really needs to be any gatekeeping here. If queueing up and getting a group of people who might need some help getting through the content is not acceptable to you, then don't use the queue.

It is absolutely possible to level Undaunted skill line by doing:
Normal dungeons
Pledges on normal
Borgul delve tasks

No death speed run in the EH1? Seriously? Did you missed part about easy-1-dungeons?

Ok, you can carry 1 lowbie. Nice, me too. Can, but not must and has no will for it.
Let's imagine, that you are entering to DsC2 and see there 2 lowbies. Would you carry them?
Would you carry 3 lowbies? This is possible - that's were a reason to me to start this thread.
So answer please: would you carry them? You said, that lowbies is OK, then, you would carry 3 lowbies? Or you lied?

squinceybones wrote: »

I am disagreeing with what you want, because you have been quite rude to people in the past.

Oh please, no, I'm so care!
Not.

Flameheart wrote: »

His rudenness
...
such things like

I don't thinks it is rude to ask to fix some obvious problems.

And not, sure, this is not wise and not OK, but you can't program it.
But restrict access to vet dungeons by CP-lvl would be pretty easy.

There is a problem but it is not lowbies being allowed in vet dungeons. It's players on the whole, <lvl 50, >lvl 50 and >cp 160 alike, having 0 incentive to improve until they start doing vet dungeons. Do cp 30 I find via groupfinder usually suck? Not gonna lie, yeah most of them do.

Do cp 160 I find via groupfinder suck less? Nope, they're equally or more (no more battle leveling) bad usually because they were told to grind to cp 160 and they did, but there wasn't a l2p element anywhere along the way. Do cp 300+ I pug perform better? Some do, most are just as clueless. I've met at least 3 DK tanks in my last few pugs, all in 250 cp+ area, to whom I had to explain what chains, talons and wings are. One actually told me he has no wings-resembling skill because he's not a Warden. See the pattern yet?

Do cp 600+ perform better? Well...sometimes. Being exposed to the game for a long while makes them more likely to figure out their imperfections. But I still see cp 630 spamming 1 attack throughout the whole dungeon, be it aoe or single target, cp 630 tanks with 17k health and healers with 13k health who haven't the foggiest about mechanics nor their class. And, shock of the year, the cp 100 healer I had in vWGT the other day was heaps better than, say, the cp 630 healer with 13k health I ended up with in a pug before. Not just that but cp 100 actually listened to advices whereas cp 630 seemed happy enough to spend the fight dead with me(dps) healing even despite me offering them food.

They're not gonna get better by having more cp. Only way they will(if at all) is by doing content that actually makes them reconsider their build and rotation, which therefore should be done as soon as possible so there're less clueless players out there, not more.

I have a 630CP tank with 18k health(without food anyway, 24k with). It doesnt stop me from tanking anything less than a trial or vRoM/vDSA. But you are correct, CP has little to nothing to do with player skill, I have often completed vCoS with players in the cp80-140 range, sure it was slower and I had to explain more, but no big deal....they were better players because it requires MORE skill to complete that dungeon at low CP than 630CP. Those guys will be beasts once they reach cp630 because of it.

NordSwordnBoard · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

I just roll with this strategy:

1 Communication - most content can be explained and defeated with active verbal cooperation regardless of CP/experience. This plays to the whole L2P argument. Some are too bashful to let their lack of knowledge be known, but let me know what you do know so I can address what you don't... and help you. Speaking to someone gives so much more info than just observing their title and gear. This is also how you help a person eliminate themselves from the group. Wasting others' time is a two way street.

2 Roles - keep an eye on that guy with the 2 roles selected. All 3 roles picked probably means you get all three stooges rolled into one potato salad. Some 2 role rollers are great and perform well, but its rare. Some are just impatient and believe casting a wider net in GF results in more people potentially tolerating their antics.

3 Damage - Getting to the first boss usually takes some time, and you can spend some of the dungeon timer penalty getting there and judging along the way. Give them all a chance, some people are trying new builds or rotations. Some people need to be abandoned. When things fail or go horribly wrong, see #1. The problems won't just go away after multiple tries, and the bosses don't get easier as you go. I leave the group before suggesting a kick. If one person is ruining it for others, they get the boot from others or they ruin that group.

Especially on weeknights, I don't have time to do a three or four hour dungeon. I don't see how that's acceptable to anybody not carrying friends or guildies. The sense of accomplishment from getting 6 keys is always better than only one or two (or just a 2 hour fail for nothing). There is a certain understanding between carrier and the carried that has to be reached by both parties. It's a PUG, I'm under no obligations to carry you any more than you have to listen to me about one shot mechanics and hard-casted frags. I can't teach you a rotation and help set your skill bars at the Planar Inhibitor 3rd try - because I'm already long gone before then. I love to help people complete what they couldn't before, but it requires cooperation.

firedrgn · June 2017

You can see everyone's lvls on the group screen.

I have seen some low lol players that can out preform some high lvl. So not sure it seems,like a good idea on paper

josiahva · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I just roll with this strategy:

1 Communication - most content can be explained and defeated with active verbal cooperation regardless of CP/experience. This plays to the whole L2P argument. Some are too bashful to let their lack of knowledge be known, but let me know what you do know so I can address what you don't... and help you. Speaking to someone gives so much more info than just observing their title and gear. This is also how you help a person eliminate themselves from the group. Wasting others' time is a two way street.

2 Roles - keep an eye on that guy with the 2 roles selected. All 3 roles picked probably means you get all three stooges rolled into one potato salad. Some 2 role rollers are great and perform well, but its rare. Some are just impatient and believe casting a wider net in GF results in more people potentially tolerating their antics.

3 Damage - Getting to the first boss usually takes some time, and you can spend some of the dungeon timer penalty getting there and judging along the way. Give them all a chance, some people are trying new builds or rotations. Some people need to be abandoned. When things fail or go horribly wrong, see #1. The problems won't just go away after multiple tries, and the bosses don't get easier as you go. I leave the group before suggesting a kick. If one person is ruining it for others, they get the boot from others or they ruin that group.

Especially on weeknights, I don't have time to do a three or four hour dungeon. I don't see how that's acceptable to anybody not carrying friends or guildies. The sense of accomplishment from getting 6 keys is always better than only one or two (or just a 2 hour fail for nothing). There is a certain understanding between carrier and the carried that has to be reached by both parties. It's a PUG, I'm under no obligations to carry you any more than you have to listen to me about one shot mechanics and hard-casted frags. I can't teach you a rotation and help set your skill bars at the Planar Inhibitor 3rd try - because I'm already long gone before then. I love to help people complete what they couldn't before, but it requires cooperation.

I do occasionally queue as all three roles, but as soon as I get into the dungeon, I set my skills/gear accordingly if I get something other than tank. There is no problem queuing as multiple roles as long as you can reasonably fill any of them, the key word there being reasonably.

I think you are doing a disservice to people if you are leaving the group after just a couple wipes on the inhibitor. Many people need several tries as they learn the mechanics on that one, then occasionally they just get the bad luck of getting portals right as they reach to get the pinion. As a tank, if I have heat stroke...getting portals is a death sentence since it generally takes all my resources to fight heatstroke, closing portals becomes almost(but not quite) impossible at a whopping 1500 weapon dmg on a bow when I have to swap back to main bar to throw up shields that only last a couple seconds against heatstroke. Sometimes RNG(or timing) is against you that fight, or other people just need to have a chance to learn mechanics, but more often than anything else with the inhibitor in particular(and Xal Nur) its communication and teamwork that is missing, leaving the group does nothing to solve that problem.

Bobby_V_Rockit · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

I still havent done any of the 4 DLC vet dungeons, I'm CP 740 and played same toon for nearly 2 years lol.

SilverWF · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

BTW how many times did you ignore the point of my posts now? I shorten and repeat them for you.

What roles would it enforce if the turorial would explain basic mechanics like: red circles, important of rotations, telegraphs, the idea behind the roles in group composition?

What difference does it make from an PoV of experience and player skill to jump from cp159 to cp160?

Why don't you run with your guild mates instead of demanding to take content away from lowlevel players?

Is this because you're avid to get their drops?

Never

Roles? Of what you are planning to explain again? How to avoid red circles? Someone at 50 lvl still never heard about it? Really? Rotations? this is something from community, ZOS are not forcing ppl to have "rotations", so there wouldn't be any tutorial about it. And there is right and wrong rotations. Poison Injection + LA still rotation, but is it right one? Will be there tutorial about it?

Again, roles? I can't imagine tutorial from ZOS(!) with words "Healer must have Luminous Shards or Healing Orb or this is crap healer"

No any difference, here is only possibility to share loot. Noone said that I will force them "gimme all your stuff or votekick" - what a BS? Probably if that guy don't need it(!), then I can ask. Why not? Is it restricted? By who? lol

Stop turning thread to a wrong direction please. If you feel, that there is lack of tutorials in the game - go on create thread/poll about that. And we will see opinion of the community about that.

But I'm pretty sure, that no any tutorials would help.
And I'm far from being alone here.

SilverWF · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

A player's level or number of champion points is not even remotely indicative of said player's knowledge, skill, or ability.

There are plenty of CP 630 players who have no idea what they're doing, no idea how to build a character, and have no idea how to play their role.

This is wrng call
The number of noobs at high CP lvls are very low (and they can be freely reported for account buy) and equals to the number of really good lowbies. This is minority and can be ignored - sorry, but that's how democracy works

idk · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

SilverWF wrote: »

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

A player's level or number of champion points is not even remotely indicative of said player's knowledge, skill, or ability.

There are plenty of CP 630 players who have no idea what they're doing, no idea how to build a character, and have no idea how to play their role.

This is wrng call
The number of noobs at high CP lvls are very low (and they can be freely reported for account buy) and equals to the number of really good lowbies. This is minority and can be ignored - sorry, but that's how democracy works

Talk about wrong call. So wrong and so far off from how things are in the game.

I will quote @Pepper8Jack so others see this in complete context.

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

A player's level or number of champion points is not even remotely indicative of said player's knowledge, skill, or ability.

There are plenty of CP 630 players who have no idea what they're doing, no idea how to build a character, and have no idea how to play their role.

There are players who grind to max CP once they hit lvl 50 which would mean they are not very familiar with mechanics nor have they worked on their builds for good dungeon dps.

Just as there are some players at CP10 who are more skilled than a great many above CP160 due being good experienced gamers.

Tryxus · June 2017

This is gonna be tricky because:
- Lowbies could very well be alts that alrdy have knowledge of their class and the mechanics. After all: CP != Skill
- Higher CP players could barely have any real PvE experience

Besides, any actual new players with low CP do need to learn how to do dungeons and trials. There's Normal Mode for that, but they shouldn't be stopped it they feel that they are ready to take on the vet version. The system needs to remain open for progression runs etc

However, I do feel that there are a few exceptions to this: dungeons where a high CP rank is a must. The ones that come to mind are Direfrost Keep (without sufficient DPS, the final boss is gonna be impossible), CoH 2 and CoA 2 (same reason as Direfrost) and the DLC dungeons which require more DPS and class knowledge. I think for dungeons as these, there needs to be a CP restriction.

MehrunesFlagon · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Minimum of 160, simply because if you are farming for something.You want the piece that drops in the right trait to be usable for max level. Don't have a enough phalanges to count the amount of times somebody else got what I was looking for,but was level 15. quite annoying.

SoLooney · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Lol, amen to your post OP.
Tired of seeing a cp 80, 120, 50 trying to do hard vet dungeons like CoA 2 or any of the dlc dungeons. Gear isnt tradeable cause they arent 160 cp and they wont be doing enough dps for the most part or be able to mitigate damage as well as a higher cp would. AKA having to carry like the lowbies in normal dungeons. Most of the time it ends up in a failure and none of the lowbies want to kick each other because of moral reasons or whatnot

Its just a waste of time for the higher level players. Low level players from what I see expect high level players to carry or be extremely patient with the slow pace. I completely agree you should be at least cp 160

MissBizz · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Just finished a vet HM dungeon with a "lowbie" tonight. Smooth as butter.