leepalmer95 wrote: »

They should add a proc cooldown. 1 proc per 4s? Procs are strong but are broken if they stack.

Of course they need to adjust sets individually.

Viper
Selene
Red mountain
Skoria
Grothdarr - to an extent

They are the 'strong' proc sets, leave things like winterborn/ overwhelming surge etc... alone.

Don't make them dots as thats just a disadvantage to dk's/ sorc's and nb's (to a lesser extent), templars will be basically immune to another thing like they already are to most things like curse/ dk dots etc..

At the least they should change Viper to a 10% change to proc every 4 seconds. Now it's just a free 9k damage which is more then most of my skills do. It's on everyones deathrecap 2-3 times.

These sets you mentioned, and infernal cloakdetector guardian should be removed from PvP in my opinion. But then again.. I am no game developer what do I know. If I made a game gear would be just for protection and have no stats at all. That's why I have a deskjob.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

50% nerf from battlespirit would make all procs not be used at all. Might as well remove them then.

That's a good thing.

Killing sets is never a good thing, we have enough useless sets as it is.

When it comes to offensive proc sets they need to be killed and erased from the game.Buff certain crafted sets and utility sets to make people want to use them.

josiahva wrote: »

I am really tired of people calling for nerfs. Are there over-performing sets ans skills? Absolutely. That being said...who cares? It doesn't matter, the game is an equal playing field. EVERYONE can run over-performing skills and sets. ANYONE can build to counter a particular setup. It doesn't matter if they nerf set A or set B, because then people will just make another build that is "over-performing" instead....no amount of nerfs will EVER equalize the playing field, because said playing field is already equal. Its marginally more viable to buff other sets as a way of encouraging build diversity, but in the end nerfs wont stop anything, all they will do is lead to new builds which will continue to "over-perform" in relation to the average build. This is not new...I have played MTG for 20 years and have seen the same thing...except in that game with sets rotating in and out of the "standard" format they have a bit more control...but it still doesnt matter one little bit...there is always someone who comes up with some over-performing build and you always end up with the same dozen builds. All you do in that meta is make a build that can handle any of the top 8 builds in the format, whatever you come up with will work better against some of them than others...this is just the reality of playing a dynamic PvP game. You WILL be facing many of the same meta builds that will be overperforming in relation to the standard...nerfing anything and everything will not change that basic fact, this is the responsibility of the PLAYER to adapt to the new meta to stay relevant...NOT adapting the meta to the player.

If you don't like nerfs them you are in the wrong place . MMOs are all like this . Constantly chasing the meta . Grace periods last longer in eso then some other games but there is nothing here but constant change .

The best nerf for proc sets would be to remove them, they we not needed in the past not needed now, what a balancing nightmare the devs have made for themselves.

They need to look at the proc sets at a case by case level. The ones that are getting a lot of complaints are viper, red mountain, selene's, velidreth, tremor scale. Adjust them in some way. adjust proc chances, overall damage, animation changes, a secondary effect and a decrease in damage. not allowing monster sets to stack with 5 piece procs. Lots of things they can do.

edit; I think the proc sets that scale with master of arms should be looked at.....maybe not scaling with that cp would help. So u can only squeeze out more proc damage from using swords, and minor bezerk, and golding out gear.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

50% nerf from battlespirit would make all procs not be used at all. Might as well remove them then.

That's a good thing.

Killing sets is never a good thing, we have enough useless sets as it is.

Maybe just disable them in PvP then? I know their philosophy is to have the same gear be useful across the game but this is an example of why that might not work. We already have sets that are only useful in Trials (extra damage or defense against mobs) and only useful in PvP (extra damage or defense against players or siege).

RNG is a pretty bad idea in PvP. It ruins competition. When that RNG can be manipulated to be both consistent and brokenly overpowered, it's even worse.

I just don't see how the current set can be left in PvP and still be as powerful as you want it to be in PvE.

Someone above me suggested just removing the offensive proc sets or focusing just on Selene and Viper. Those are good options. There are many defensive and utility procs that are no issue at all.

LOL... Once, just once i wish a major MMO title would learn from the mistakes of past titles and balance all PvP and all PvE implementation seperatly.

Two very different game modes. But sure dungeon mechanics and PvP zergs all work the same, don't they? No wonder we have balance issues.

There's just so many different things in this game that make balance seemingly impossible at this point. Just nerfing one thing here and there isn't going to fix anything long term. Nerfs are just band-aids. Why not buff sets used in builds that counter procs? Or create new sets for that purpose? They changed CP so every buff has a counter. Do it with armor sets. There's so many junk sets in the game. Why not adjust them to be defensive with proc sets in mind?

Really they need to find a way to get over their flawed ideology and just separate PvP and PvE. They would give themselves such better control of the game at that point. They're already two completely different game modes that require totally different gear, skills, and CP setups to be fully effective. Proc sets don't hurt PvE. 95% of the complaints come in regards to PvP. If most players really want them out of PvP then just change who the procs can be used against. Here's an example:

Red Mountain ( adjustment in bold)
(5 items) When you deal damage with a Weapon ability, you have a 10% chance to deal an additional 8400 Flame Damage to enemies. This effect can occur once every 2 seconds.

There. Now proc sets don't effect players. Next expand on PvP specific sets that affect "Players" by creating new sets that you earn in PvP events (Rewards for the Worthy). Devs should do this while actually thinking about all the bad decisions they've made in the past.

Or maybe just have one PvP map that's completely flat and small with graphics like Minecraft (you know, to help with lag). Everyone can only equip the bucket helmet and broom and are otherwise naked. See, fixed. No lag or queue time issues, no proc sets, resource sustain issues, over or under performing gear. Just sweaty naked adventurers hitting each other with sticks.

seedubsrun wrote: »

There's just so many different things in this game that make balance seemingly impossible at this point. Just nerfing one thing here and there isn't going to fix anything long term. Nerfs are just band-aids. Why not buff sets used in builds that counter procs? Or create new sets for that purpose? They changed CP so every buff has a counter. Do it with armor sets. There's so many junk sets in the game. Why not adjust them to be defensive with proc sets in mind?

Really they need to find a way to get over their flawed ideology and just separate PvP and PvE. They would give themselves such better control of the game at that point. They're already two completely different game modes that require totally different gear, skills, and CP setups to be fully effective. Proc sets don't hurt PvE. 95% of the complaints come in regards to PvP. If most players really want them out of PvP then just change who the procs can be used against. Here's an example:

Red Mountain ( adjustment in bold)
(5 items) When you deal damage with a Weapon ability, you have a 10% chance to deal an additional 8400 Flame Damage to enemies. This effect can occur once every 2 seconds.

There. Now proc sets don't effect players. Next expand on PvP specific sets that affect "Players" by creating new sets that you earn in PvP events (Rewards for the Worthy). Devs should do this while actually thinking about all the bad decisions they've made in the past.

Or maybe just have one PvP map that's completely flat and small with graphics like Minecraft (you know, to help with lag). Everyone can only equip the bucket helmet and broom and are otherwise naked. See, fixed. No lag or queue time issues, no proc sets, resource sustain issues, over or under performing gear. Just sweaty naked adventurers hitting each other with sticks.

This is a perfect solution to me.

Keep the damage procs the same but damage doesn't apply to players.

I'm pretty sure proc sets will be nerfed. In fact I imagine they already have some level of internal discussions on how to deal with this issue without disrupting the PvE parallel.

seedubsrun wrote: »

Here's an example:
Red Mountain ( adjustment in bold)
(5 items) When you use a Weapon ability, you have a 10% chance to deal an additional 8400 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every 2 seconds.

This can easily fix this set, but it's not a solution, neither is yours.

What is counter sets that you can suggest? There was one - Malubeth - you can try to search tear rivers about it at this forum
Fixing proc stuff with another procs - pretty bad idea, really.

All procs must be toned down in PvP. Damage reduced in 2 times, maybe more. Chance reduced and cooldown increased.
Ideally, that all proc sets (offensive and defensive both) would become unusable in PvP (or at least not BIS) - wanna kill someone? use your head and skills, but not spam 1 button in hope for procs.

Developer Comment:

SilverWF wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

Here's an example:
Red Mountain ( adjustment in bold)
(5 items) When you use a Weapon ability, you have a 10% chance to deal an additional 8400 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every 2 seconds.

This can easily fix this set, but it's not a solution, neither is yours.

What is counter sets that you can suggest? There was one - Malubeth - you can try to search tear rivers about it at this forum
Fixing proc stuff with another procs - pretty bad idea, really.

All procs must be toned down in PvP. Damage reduced in 2 times, maybe more. Chance reduced and cooldown increased.
Ideally, that all proc sets (offensive and defensive both) would become unusable in PvP (or at least not BIS) - wanna kill someone? use your head and skills, but not spam 1 button in hope for procs.

Any proc set that does damage could be fixed by making it not apply to players or any proc set offensive or defensive could be adjusted to be "...when outside of Cyrodiil"

I think the fact that trying to determine which current sets could be used to mitigate proc sets and coming up empty handed is a big part of the problem. If proc sets are going to stay then that's an issue that should be addressed. I never suggested fixing proc sets with more procs though nor would I claim to have a handy list of the "10 best new armor set ideas that'll totally fix the game".

Nerfing the crap out of proc sets isn't the actual solution. Proc sets aren't an issue in PvE. Nerfing a bunch of useful sets just adds to the huge heaping pile of useless sets in this game. If proc sets are a problem in PvP then the real solution is to make them not as useful as something else. This can be done several ways. Many suggested in this thread. My suggestion would simply make them all useless in PvP while not affecting them in PvE, cause I'm pretty sure the Assembly General isn't on these forums crying about all the poison damage or Illambris procs he's getting hit with.

As always though, doesn't matter, if they do nerf them they'll just reduce the damage, increase the cooldowns, and/or reduce the proc chance. It's Zos, they'll take the easy fast approach instead of the thoughtful precise one.

Proc sets are still OP.
Nerf proc sets damage and healing by 50% or introduce a much longer cooldown to procs.

The idea behind proc sets implementation is to give players some utility.
Proc sets in their current state are inflicting more damage to other players than any skillful gameplay.
They are too strong in PVE too.