Proc set nerfs incoming ?

Rouven · June 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

We noticed that only 2% of players are using sets with procs, so we decided to add proc effects to each set on top of the existing set bonus and increased the damage by 13.5%.

Wrobel is that you ?

Literally this will be a buff if you wear armour.

Hehe.

Strider_Roshin · June 2017

JamieAubrey wrote: »

inb4 all stamina users come crying and bitching about how they can no longer use these sets

mb10 wrote: »

Enjoy it while you can stam blades!!

Reality is coming back to haunt you again

That awkward moment when you realize that some of the loudest voices against proc sets are Stamblades...

Not all stamblades play this game on easy mode, and the ones that do will probably switch to magsorc after the proc sets get the nerf hammer (and rightfully so).

Rahotu · June 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Was this eso live today? If anyone could post video and time stamp where they said proc sets that would be awesome.

It was literally about 30s, they spent 30 mins going through how they voice act.

literally almost near abouts but definitely literally

Kneighbors · June 2017

Although I can feel your buttheart about proc sets I would never understand those who ask to nerf everything that has a contrast, greying the game more and more. The game becoming more and more boring with every nerf.

I remember times I was playing my templar heal in PvE and using Radiant Destruction feeling "damn in this moment I make 25k dps better than our dd". There were bosses I was finishing as lone survival when boss under 10% health. I was feeling my heal is strong, can defend himself. It was a great feeling. I barely use this skill today. I barely play heal today.

I remember using Desert Rose set on my magtank getting good amount of magicka in action. Today magicka sustain = lich set and thats it, no alternatives.

Instead of asking devs to improve the sets, the game, the skills, the community cries for nerfs. Then it cries because of too many nerfs saying it's not fun anymore. So I think we deserve exactly what we get. The game is going on a steady heading to becoming dull mmo without any diversity.

overclocker303b14_ESO · June 2017

For those that didn't see ESO live they basically said they are aware that proc sets are 'over performing' so it sounds like there is a good chance they will be nerfed in the next patch.

I'm 100% fine with them doing something similar to the solution proposed in this thread:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/354203/the-solution-to-proc-sets

However I don't think they should get any sort of a nerf in PVE. I spent a lot of time getting a devines velidreth helm so I could wear it in vMA and dungeons / trials and imagine a lot of other people have too.

Demycilian · June 2017

A fix for animation cancelling is this much closer.

casparian · June 2017

The change will be unproductive if a blanket, one-size-fits-all solution is applied. Not all procs are the same kind of thing, and they need to be treated differently. For instance:

- Viper grants an instant, non-telegraphed, unavoidable damage proc.
- Selene and Valkyn Skoria grant non-instant, telegraphed, avoidable damage procs.
- Seventh Legion and Senche's Bite grant stat bonuses under certain conditions.
- Shieldbreaker grants a damage proc against one and only one type of defense in PVP.
- Skooma Smuggler grants a non-unique buff under specific conditions.
- Prisoner's Rags grants a unique buff under specific conditions.

These represent completely different kinds of proc set, and should not be thought of as the same thing or subjected to the same treatment. While I'm cautiously optimistic about broad solutions like global cooldowns, I also see how such a solution could overcompensate for non-existing problems while also failing to address real issues. For instance, would a global cooldown prevent Senche from proccing within 1 second of Werewolf Hide? What would be the point of that, other than indiscriminately making every build weaker that combines multiple armor sets with "when [condition] then [effect]" in their tooltips? I'm afraid that a blanket nerf would end up throwing out harmlessly beneficial combos that enable unique builds at the same time as it got rid of overpowered setups. (For instance, someone posted a video here recently of a tank build that could beat Maelstrom Arena due to stacking Seventh Legion's proc with Ravager's. Would a global cooldown prevent these two from stacking? Would that improve PVP significantly enough to justify making this unique PVE build non-viable? A tank that can beat VMA is definitely a unique build, and it would be a real loss of build diversity if a proc set nerf made that even less feasible than it already is.)

ZOS has got to buckle down and make some specific changes instead of blanket nerfs, and the player base needs to stop calling for them to take shortcuts by implementing global, blanket solutions.

leepalmer95 · June 2017

Yeah they better not do a crappy nerf across the board.

Kind of don't want some of the non popular sets to die off and become more useless sets.

O_LYKOS · June 2017

They'll keep nerfing them till we no longer use them lmao

rfennell_ESO · June 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I wonder if this will be a case where no sustain backtracking is implimented and PVE gets further screwed for the PVP minority.

Proc sets provide minute dps in pve anyway.

Depends on the set and the setup.

Will also likely depend on what sets are effected.

Kodi was on the show and had suggested a global cooldown so three proc sets can not proc at once . Gina said they are open for suggestions and feedback but do not blame her as she does not touch the game code and if she did it would be worse . Much worse .

I can't wait until they have an episode on morals and mental health. With Charles Manson as the special guest.

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2017

https://twitch.tv/videos/153916244

44:40 time stamp where it is mentioned.

Qbiken · June 2017

As long as it´s not a global nerf I´m fine with it. Nerf individual sets, not all proc-sets.

Bladerunner1 · June 2017

I like the battle spirit idea with return of crit procs, but please don't add a blanket cooldown on everything. Weapon damage buff procs + monster helmet procs aren't the PVE meta, but they're still fun.

SJD_Phoenix · June 2017

I really like the idea of a global copldown on sets that have a 5 piece with a specified damage number.

Would work for pvp as you wouldn't have builds that stack 2-3 proc sets and wouldn't hurt pve as most builds don't use multiple proc sets anyway (twice fang/vo/veli) usually

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2017

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

I like the battle spirit idea with return of crit procs, but please don't add a blanket cooldown on everything. Weapon damage buff procs + monster helmet procs aren't the PVE meta, but they're still fun.

Procs are already hit my battle spirit. I'd rather see damage re-tuned. They were first tuned from a pve perspective because its obvious.

Strider_Roshin · June 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

As long as it´s not a global nerf I´m fine with it. Nerf individual sets, not all proc-sets.

My guess is that you only want the stam sets nerfed.

I want every proc set nerfed. I don't want a single one to work in PvP. Proc sets have been bad for the game since their conception.

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

As long as it´s not a global nerf I´m fine with it. Nerf individual sets, not all proc-sets.

My guess is that you only want the stam sets nerfed.

I want every proc set nerfed. I don't want a single one to work in PvP. Proc sets have been bad for the game since their conception.

THINK OF THE CRAFTED SETS UNDER 5 TRAITS

Strider_Roshin · June 2017

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

As long as it´s not a global nerf I´m fine with it. Nerf individual sets, not all proc-sets.

My guess is that you only want the stam sets nerfed.

I want every proc set nerfed. I don't want a single one to work in PvP. Proc sets have been bad for the game since their conception.

THINK OF THE CRAFTED SETS UNDER 5 TRAITS

Crafted what? You mean training gear?

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

As long as it´s not a global nerf I´m fine with it. Nerf individual sets, not all proc-sets.

My guess is that you only want the stam sets nerfed.

I want every proc set nerfed. I don't want a single one to work in PvP. Proc sets have been bad for the game since their conception.

THINK OF THE CRAFTED SETS UNDER 5 TRAITS

Crafted what? You mean training gear?

it was a fun joke about the few terrible proc sets that got nerfed hard from the global crit change and even more so probably after the next change. :P

Strider_Roshin · June 2017

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

As long as it´s not a global nerf I´m fine with it. Nerf individual sets, not all proc-sets.

My guess is that you only want the stam sets nerfed.

I want every proc set nerfed. I don't want a single one to work in PvP. Proc sets have been bad for the game since their conception.

THINK OF THE CRAFTED SETS UNDER 5 TRAITS

Crafted what? You mean training gear?

it was a fun joke about the few terrible proc sets that got nerfed hard from the global crit change and even more so probably after the next change. :P

Lol I know, and my response was an attempt at comedy by insulting the potency of crafted gear.

Apparently I failed.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2017

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I wonder if this will be a case where no sustain backtracking is implimented and PVE gets further screwed for the PVP minority.

Proc sets provide minute dps in pve anyway.

Depends on the set and the setup.

Will also likely depend on what sets are effected.

Kodi was on the show and had suggested a global cooldown so three proc sets can not proc at once . Gina said they are open for suggestions and feedback but do not blame her as she does not touch the game code and if she did it would be worse . Much worse .

I can't wait until they have an episode on morals and mental health. With Charles Manson as the special guest.

Odd request you have . The team at ZoS might not have as much fun as I did putting a smiley face on his forhead so he's properly edited for television .

Megabear · June 2017

I'm just waiting until proc sets get nerfed or acquisition of full proc set before I PvP

Malic · June 2017

Of course they are going to nerf them, the tears have been overflowing the forums for months.

I mean, have no fear most of you will find something else to cry about after the nerf anyway, magi sorc is always a sure fire 5 page tear jerker so you wont loose ability to engage in your chosen masochistic activity.

You know playing a game that you think has broken elements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU

olsborg · June 2017

Procc set nerfed hard is what pvp needs. That and a fix for the lagg.

Ranger209 · June 2017

Couple things

First, I see the death recaps showing procs killing people, but something is going to kill you and if it's not procs because they get nerfed, then the most commonly seen abilities that do kill people will be next in line for the nerf cries. And so it will go until everything gets nerfed. So that in and of itself is not enough reason to nerf them. I do think they need to be nerfed, but not for this reason.

Second, if they are so powerful that everyone feels compelled to use them that build diversity suffers then this to me is a problem. I have heard people saying that in bg's everyone is stacking them, but is there concrete evidence of this other than selectively screenshotting a death recap for all of us to see where a person died to nothing but procs? If this is real then this is a reason to nerf them, but I, myself, need more proof of this. I do not BG as of now, but my death recaps in Cyrodiil do not back up this claim. My hunch is this is possibly real, but I still remain skeptical based on my own Cyrodiil experience. Maybe BG's are just that much different. I do CP and non CP Cyrodiil and have personally not seen a difference. If this is real, I support a nerf for this reason, build diversity.

Third, how do you nerf it for pvp without nerfing it for pve, because this is quite important. My suspicion with the crit nerf to all, pve and pvp, is that ZOS could not differentiate between proc damage and weapon/class ability damage. If they could then battle spirit would be the tool to use to reduce the damage selectively only to pvp leaving pve untouched. This leaves 3 ways that I can think of to handle this. Either a blanket nerf as stated above that could have many unintended consequences, or looking at individual sets and nerfing them specific to damage done when hitting a player, or making another type of damage that is recognized by the game as specific to a proc such that there are x and y types of damage from weapon/class abilities and p and q types of damage from procced abilities. Doing this would enable them to use battle spirit in a way that outgoing p or q damage is cut in half while all damage is cut in half upon receiving it, thereby reducing procs to 25% damage in pvp while still being 100% damage in pve.

Fourth, whatever way they choose to do this it should be done so that it is the least taxing on the system to not introduce even more lag. Every additional calculation has an effect that will be multiplied many times over so they really need to look at performance impact whatever their decision is, if they do in fact nerf procs.

KingJ · June 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

As long as it´s not a global nerf I´m fine with it. Nerf individual sets, not all proc-sets.

My guess is that you only want the stam sets nerfed.

I want every proc set nerfed. I don't want a single one to work in PvP. Proc sets have been bad for the game since their conception.

I want every single Damage proc set Nerf.If it will deal damage Nerf it into the ground. Make it so they can't stack and reduce the damage by 2000%.

Strider_Roshin · June 2017

KingJ wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

As long as it´s not a global nerf I´m fine with it. Nerf individual sets, not all proc-sets.

My guess is that you only want the stam sets nerfed.

I want every proc set nerfed. I don't want a single one to work in PvP. Proc sets have been bad for the game since their conception.

I want every single Damage proc set Nerf.If it will deal damage Nerf it into the ground. Make it so they can't stack and reduce the damage by 2000%.

I approve of this message.

STEVIL · June 2017

casparian wrote: »

The change will be unproductive if a blanket, one-size-fits-all solution is applied. Not all procs are the same kind of thing, and they need to be treated differently. For instance:

- Viper grants an instant, non-telegraphed, unavoidable damage proc.
- Selene and Valkyn Skoria grant non-instant, telegraphed, avoidable damage procs.
- Seventh Legion and Senche's Bite grant stat bonuses under certain conditions.
- Shieldbreaker grants a damage proc against one and only one type of defense in PVP.
- Skooma Smuggler grants a non-unique buff under specific conditions.
- Prisoner's Rags grants a unique buff under specific conditions.

These represent completely different kinds of proc set, and should not be thought of as the same thing or subjected to the same treatment. While I'm cautiously optimistic about broad solutions like global cooldowns, I also see how such a solution could overcompensate for non-existing problems while also failing to address real issues. For instance, would a global cooldown prevent Senche from proccing within 1 second of Werewolf Hide? What would be the point of that, other than indiscriminately making every build weaker that combines multiple armor sets with "when [condition] then [effect]" in their tooltips? I'm afraid that a blanket nerf would end up throwing out harmlessly beneficial combos that enable unique builds at the same time as it got rid of overpowered setups. (For instance, someone posted a video here recently of a tank build that could beat Maelstrom Arena due to stacking Seventh Legion's proc with Ravager's. Would a global cooldown prevent these two from stacking? Would that improve PVP significantly enough to justify making this unique PVE build non-viable? A tank that can beat VMA is definitely a unique build, and it would be a real loss of build diversity if a proc set nerf made that even less feasible than it already is.)

ZOS has got to buckle down and make some specific changes instead of blanket nerfs, and the player base needs to stop calling for them to take shortcuts by implementing global, blanket solutions.

And NMG proc a rebuff on crit that in trials can be significant by a long shot.

Btw I thought I heard this as UPDATE 16 which would be two updates away, but could be wrong.

leepalmer95 · June 2017

They should add a proc cooldown. 1 proc per 4s? Procs are strong but are broken if they stack.

Of course they need to adjust sets individually.

Viper
Selene
Red mountain
Skoria
Grothdarr - to an extent

They are the 'strong' proc sets, leave things like winterborn/ overwhelming surge etc... alone.

Don't make them dots as thats just a disadvantage to dk's/ sorc's and nb's (to a lesser extent), templars will be basically immune to another thing like they already are to most things like curse/ dk dots etc..

Gilvoth · June 2017

never going to happen.
the devs love the "diversity" they claimed, what was spoken here in that eso live was not planned and can be discarded.
im not joking. not trolling.
i mean what i am saying. proc sets will not be changing.
the result is that more and more people will be leaving eso.
that is my belief.

dont get me wrong, i hate proc sets and i hope they will delete all those sets, but i just dont see it happen.
just like they said allready they removed the "crit" of proc sets and they think it fixed everything by doing that.