The poisonous atmosphere in high-end duelling

  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    Kutsuu wrote: »
    Rataroto wrote: »
    I take on everyone that wants a fair fight. if you line of sight, I'll either use the time to recover myself, i'll persue you, or poke u from a distance, as long as you don't just chicken away to end the duel and avoid diying, i'm ok with everything. A duel is a duel.

    The most crying I get is for using eternal hunt and sometimes i get whispers: "I was in pve gear and skills you ****", for those peeps i give the usual GG

    it stands for Get Gud

    Haha I was dueling 561 characters with my 510cp the other night.

    Of course, most people accept because they see me as a low cp scrub.

    The amount of "I was in PVE gear" whispers I'd get after I'd won the duel was laughable.

    GG indeed :)

    I doubt that's the case when you are only 50 CPs from cap. People will make excuses to anyone who beats them.

    How much difference does say 80-100 cp actually make?

    Literally: 100 CPs mean 33 per tree. That's somewhere around 15% in a tree with nothing already in it, it could be as little as 5% for 3 trees.

    Let's then say a player has 1200 regen, that would make a difference of 180 magicka regen between someone without those CPs.

    Basically, at most, 100 CP difference could be the equivalent of them having an additional glyph in a stat you don't have
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
    Shepherd of Rot - Stamina Necromancer BG Archer - No Gank
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    The reason most tourneys ban something is to try and bring so sort of relevant balance to dueling.

    Like you said imov pots counter so many builds and burst potential. It's almost impossible to burst some builds or run them out of stamina if they run imov pots. E.g. Whip proc heal, draining shot heal etc..

    Honestly for random duels open world people can use what they like i guess, dueling rules only apply for tourneys or high end duelers that want to get better so they ban OP things that would otherwise carry players.

    But if you duel with BM (bad manners) E.g. Using crutch skills/ mechanics or gear, even if its one you can't complain if people use those things to you.

    So if your going to use imov pots, poisons, malubeth or such then you can't complain if people just decide to not bother or use those things back.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • fred4
    fred4
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    Like you said imov pots counter so many builds and burst potential. It's almost impossible to burst some builds or run them out of stamina if they run imov pots. E.g. Whip proc heal, draining shot heal etc.
    Where does it start and where does it end? If someone wants to make an unkillable build, they can. Indeed, some people bring tanks to duels, just to see how they perform, and I think that's fine. Now, if such a tank were to use Tremorscale or otherwise spec for some damage, they might also be able to kill someone. There are lots of things considered OP by one person, or another.

    I guess the main difference between you and me is that I see duels as a training and testing ground, and only partially as a way to measure skill. I encounter this more and more. The regulars often tell me, please fight, I have a new build.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • fred4
    fred4
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    The other side is this. Using frowned upon things, Troll King, Immovable pots, and proc sets, allowed me to make the build I enjoy playing. I am far from unkillable. I prefer medium armor over heavy. I don't have a burst heal. I don't play a build specifically optimised for duels, nor one to counter just the class I'm duelling. I do have specific counters, such as wings. They are permanently slotted.

    If this sounds like I am proposing my own rules, that is not my intention at all. The point is that using some OP things does not automatically result in an OP build. By outlawing those things you restrict build variety and shoehorn people into what might be called the "acceptable meta". For my build that might involve switching to heavy armor, for example. My build does not actually do so well against mag. DKs. Yes, I am countering their CC, but I find that I frequently need to escape their damage. Having tried heavy armor, I found that I could afford to play much more aggressively, and win, against high-damage (light armor) mag. DKs that I struggled against in medium.

    If you compare the classes, there are also some pronounced differences in damage. A friend of mine plays a similar build to my Nord DK on an Orc stamsorc. When I compared damage from Flurry in FTC, the differences were not subtle. Where I managed 1.6K on the final hit, he would do 2K. We compared weapon damage, stamina, mitigation and tooltips. Those were nowhere near different enough to account for the damage difference in FTC. Despite my Nord mitigation passive, the same ability was hitting much harder for the stamsorc. I subsequently tried stamsorc on a non-optimal race (Breton), and I can only say that difference is real. Stamsorc > stam. DK, due to passives and the awful risk of implosion. I am not talking about PvE sustained damage tests here, but individual abilities and what stamsorc feels like in PvP.

    So, are you going to outlaw a whole class, stamsorc, from duels? Cause that's what I'd be asking for, if I was among the whiny.

    The upshot is that I have no qualms running frowned upon proc sets on my Nord DK, which I still happen to enjoy playing the most.
    Edited by fred4 on January 30, 2017 10:01AM
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    fred4 wrote: »
    The other side is this. Using frowned upon things, Troll King, Immovable pots, and proc sets, allowed me to make the build I enjoy playing. I am far from unkillable. I prefer medium armor over heavy. I don't have a burst heal. I don't play a build specifically optimised for duels, nor one to counter just the class I'm duelling. I do have specific counters, such as wings. They are permanently slotted.

    If this sounds like I am proposing my own rules, that is not my intention at all. The point is that using some OP things does not automatically result in an OP build. By outlawing those things you restrict build variety and shoehorn people into what might be called the "acceptable meta". For my build that might involve switching to heavy armor, for example. My build does not actually do so well against mag. DKs. Yes, I am countering their CC, but I find that I frequently need to escape their damage. Having tried heavy armor, I found that I could afford to play much more aggressively, and win, against high-damage (light armor) mag. DKs that I struggled against in medium.

    If you compare the classes, there are also some pronounced differences in damage. A friend of mine plays a similar build to my Nord DK on an Orc stamsorc. When I compared damage from Flurry in FTC, the differences were not subtle. Where I managed 1.6K on the final hit, he would do 2K. We compared weapon damage, stamina, mitigation and tooltips. Those were nowhere near different enough to account for the damage difference in FTC. Despite my Nord mitigation passive, the same ability was hitting much harder for the stamsorc. I subsequently tried stamsorc on a non-optimal race (Breton), and I can only say that difference is real. Stamsorc > stam. DK, due to passives and the awful risk of implosion. I am not talking about PvE sustained damage tests here, but individual abilities and what stamsorc feels like in PvP.

    So, are you going to outlaw a whole class, stamsorc, from duels? Cause that's what I'd be asking for, if I was among the whiny.

    The upshot is that I have no qualms running frowned upon proc sets on my Nord DK, which I still happen to enjoy playing the most.

    First no malubeth or mines or poisons
    Then no vitality or immovable
    Then no pirate
    Then no Troll King
    Then no mist form
    Then no...

    How about you just say each week the best available gears and abilities are banned, at the end of a couple of months you can just have fists...

    Especially at this point in ESO, banning anything is silly
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
    Shepherd of Rot - Stamina Necromancer BG Archer - No Gank
  • milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
    milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
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    kaithuzar wrote: »
    -Kai
    (The last magicka melee nightblade)
    Hey there, Kai! I'm coming back to the game after a long hiatus.

    I'm not asking for trade secrets, but would you mind sharing a bit of your build and what you're doing to make it work?

    Thanks in advance! :)
  • NightbladeMechanics
    NightbladeMechanics
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    Dueling etiquette tries to create skillful and balanced fights. To reject common dueling etiquette and use banned tools such as immov pots is your choice. However, in doing so you also reject balance and attempt to win via your build instead of personal skill.

    For example, you recognize that using immov pots reduces your need to manage stamina and closes windows for your opponent to burst with a cc. In this way, your consumable is protecting you.

    ZOS acknowledges that they create mechanics in the game which simply lower the skill level of builds and close the skill gap between players. Homestead patch was aimed at this. Some duelers don't care, and that's fine. However, some try to avoid such mechanics.

    Hopefully this comment helps shed some light on why you're receiving these reactions from people.

    My advice: if you want to improve your own skill level, don't use commonly banned mechanics. If you just want to have fun, then ignore others' rules and do your thing. :)
    Kena
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  • fred4
    fred4
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    I disagree, obviously. Your seem like you want to inform, so I'm not sure what your personal viewpoint is. I find being judged for using "banned" tools alternately condescending or whiny, hence the title of this thread.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • Takes-No-Prisoner
    Takes-No-Prisoner
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    OP, first off I'm not a avid dueller. But I do study and appreciate the Fight Game genre.

    Me and my significant other have had numerous discussions based on your predicament. They had a excellent point I would like to present to you;

    'What I really like about Street Fighter, is the fact that you cannot blame anyone but yourself when you lose. This keeps me wanting to strive to do better with my characters, and to continue to improve upon myself as a person. Because a majority of the reason I lose is to due to making bad decisions.

    So, what separates a good player from a bad one is that, the good one reflects upon his mistakes and the bad one pushes his failures on others. When from the beginning their loss was their own doing, but they are too blind to recognize it.


    Don't worry about it OP. I have been on your side of the fence, not in terms of dueling in ESO, but dealing with people who fail to adapt to their situation. You're in the right with your meta way of thinking, do not let these whiners convince you other wise!
  • lappas
    lappas
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    Imovable poisons and runing away are imp the 3 things that are lame in a duel. They surpase any skill involved in the duel. ie you are winning if you use imov and posions.
  • fred4
    fred4
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    lappas wrote: »
    Imovable poisons and runing away are imp the 3 things that are lame in a duel. They surpase any skill involved in the duel. ie you are winning if you use imov and posions.
    I give up in the face of such blanket generalisations and arguably grey areas presented as fact.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • MakoFore
    MakoFore
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    when u beat someone in a fight- theyre gonna get salty- thats the way it is bud.
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    fred4 wrote: »
    I disagree, obviously. Your seem like you want to inform, so I'm not sure what your personal viewpoint is. I find being judged for using "banned" tools alternately condescending or whiny, hence the title of this thread.

    The high end dueling circles ban certain set, skills or items for reasons. They are either too strong, restrict counter play and lower the quality of the fight too much, or a mix of the above.

    Ever seen a stam fight with trap? It becomes less actual skill, positioning and such and more of 'who spams trap the most'
    The duel just turns into a spam trap fight, it's boring and stupid.

    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    I just get upset when you're dueling, then a random shows up, uses EoTs in the first second, has resource poisons equipped, then acts like he actually accomplished something after he manages to squeak a win in.
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
    Shepherd of Rot - Stamina Necromancer BG Archer - No Gank
  • Baconlad
    Baconlad
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    There should be zero build restrictions to a duel. If i see a player using somthing i know will jack me up or be annoying, like a heavy armor stam DK, or a malu templar, i simply choose not to fight that player. I have created some very cancer builds myself and have come across players that refuse to fight them. But the BEST fights are the ones who see my cancer builds as a challenge and will fight me until they learn to counter and win! Not having restrictions is the best way to learn to counter.

    My favorite build was a fury/ pelinals/ bloodspawn 5 heavy WW build. I woul go sword and shield on main bar and just tank/ build up ult/ heal/ make the enemy think that i was accually trying. Once WW ult was built up, my fury stack was maxed, my heavy damage passive was stacked, id have upwards of 5k weapon and spell damage, switch to my dual maces with penetration, pop ult, and immediatly WRECK every build i came across. I achieved 30 wins before one player learned how to counter and won. It was accually really fun losing, as the whole area was watching me duel everyone and there was much happiness that somone was able to down me...fun times
  • fred4
    fred4
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    Couldn't agree more.

    So what was Pelinal's doing for your build? Amp up the WW heal?
    Edited by fred4 on February 20, 2017 11:59AM
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • FearlessOne_2014
    FearlessOne_2014
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    Fossilizing pets?! Does that really work? Sweet. @psychotic13 you're in trouble now, I'll rune prison your scamp! HA

    No it don't work against good sorcs who use pets. Me for example, if I see you fossiled my pet. I'll just press "c" on my keyboard to have it desummoned and then resummon it.
    Hope is Nothing More, than a Postponed Disappointment
  • psychotic13
    psychotic13
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    Fossilizing pets?! Does that really work? Sweet. @psychotic13 you're in trouble now, I'll rune prison your scamp! HA

    No it don't work against good sorcs who use pets. Me for example, if I see you fossiled my pet. I'll just press "c" on my keyboard to have it desummoned and then resummon it.

    We can't do that on console
  • Triipzzz
    Triipzzz
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    We've gone ahead and moved this thread to the Dueling section of forums.

    The admin response to this guys thread lmao. MOVED . Pat yourself on the back. What a great acknowledgment of how well you like the game the way it is.
  • BNOC
    BNOC
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    Triipzzz wrote: »
    We've gone ahead and moved this thread to the Dueling section of forums.

    The admin response to this guys thread lmao. MOVED . Pat yourself on the back. What a great acknowledgment of how well you like the game the way it is.

    Necroing a 4 month old post.. give yourself a pat on the back.
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