WW Needs a Taunt

Anhedonie · June 2017

In that case he also needs damage mitigation, blocking bonuses, good regen, resource managment and...wait, isn't that easier to leave it as garbage damage dealing skill line?

CaptainBeerDude · June 2017

Anhedonie wrote: »

In that case he also needs damage mitigation, blocking bonuses, good regen, resource managment and...wait, isn't that easier to leave it as garbage damage dealing skill line?

It has all of that to varying degrees. Except the block bonus. Could be made to work with taunt only.

Chrlynsch · June 2017

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

In that case he also needs damage mitigation, blocking bonuses, good regen, resource managment and...wait, isn't that easier to leave it as garbage damage dealing skill line?

It has all of that to varying degrees. Except the block bonus. Could be made to work with taunt only.

Yup, werewolfs gain 10k extra armor and spell resistance, they gain extra speed for kiting 4k stam return with heavy armor on heavy attack, extra stamina for blocking/rolldodging. So just give them a taunt, they gave one to an ice staff. Bad players will be bad regardless of what is given ro werewolves. Believe me ive seen it all. A werewolf tank would be the least of the bad.

CaptainBeerDude · June 2017

Prothwata wrote: »

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

In that case he also needs damage mitigation, blocking bonuses, good regen, resource managment and...wait, isn't that easier to leave it as garbage damage dealing skill line?

It has all of that to varying degrees. Except the block bonus. Could be made to work with taunt only.

Yup, werewolfs gain 10k extra armor and spell resistance, they gain extra speed for kiting 4k stam return with heavy armor on heavy attack, extra stamina for blocking/rolldodging. So just give them a taunt, they gave one to an ice staff. Bad players will be bad regardless of what is given ro werewolves. Believe me ive seen it all. A werewolf tank would be the least of the bad.

Having a WW pack in a dungeon organically would be awesome.

Queo · June 2017

Prothwata wrote: »

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

In that case he also needs damage mitigation, blocking bonuses, good regen, resource managment and...wait, isn't that easier to leave it as garbage damage dealing skill line?

It has all of that to varying degrees. Except the block bonus. Could be made to work with taunt only.

Yup, werewolfs gain 10k extra armor and spell resistance, they gain extra speed for kiting 4k stam return with heavy armor on heavy attack, extra stamina for blocking/rolldodging. So just give them a taunt, they gave one to an ice staff. Bad players will be bad regardless of what is given ro werewolves. Believe me ive seen it all. A werewolf tank would be the least of the bad.

Boom! winning!

As said many time WW have the tools needed to be excellent tanks, except for the most important. The taunt.

Really the counter argument are:

WW suck as DPS, but because of one monster set would be to OP in PVP if given a taunt.
that's a small part of the game. If they suck as DPS how do they become to OP because of 1 MS armors?

WW suck as DPS, if given a taunt then they would still aggro from tank...
If they are a good player then no, no they wont unless the tank is being over whelmed.

WW suck, if you play WW you suck and ill vote kick
Have you ever thought maybe WW could find a home as a tank? As said before bad players will be bad. Good players will be good. I think the bonuses would be a boon to great tanks. some who have already found ways to work with the handy cap of not having a taunt.

Perhaps i made a mistake of skipping, in my opening, the list all the reasons why WW can make great tanks given a taunt, as a lot of people dont seem to understand all that bonuses that WW have. Thankfully many other people do understand, and have repeatedly listed said reasons, see the quote above. The thing people hate the most about the WW is the DPS sucks, then why are you so apposed to giving them a taunt? If they are not the great DPS, what is the real harm in giving them a tool to find a home in the tank family? Remember bad players will be bad, regardless if they wolf out or not. Good players will be good. The skill line does not make a player bad or good, but its a tool they use. It is what that tool inspires them to do that counts. Maybe some bad players will be inspired, given the right tool, to become good players. and good players, when given the right tools, can become master players.

idk · June 2017

SilverWF wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

I see... so you want to be able to proc Tremorscale while in WW form.

Still would suck.
If I see someone using WW in the dungeon - that's a reason to votekick.

Especially in a dungeon that offers a mild challenge. If a tank went into WW form and died I'd vote kick for sure.

Queo · June 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

I see... so you want to be able to proc Tremorscale while in WW form.

Still would suck.
If I see someone using WW in the dungeon - that's a reason to votekick.

Especially in a dungeon that offers a mild challenge. If a tank went into WW form and died I'd vote kick for sure.

What would be the reason you vote kick? Because he cant keep aggro?

Asardes · June 2017

No, WW is not good as tank, because extra 10K resistance is useless in content that really needs one since mitigation from armor is capped at 50%. There are plenty of things that can get you killed quite fast if you are not blocking with a shield. And simply grabbing aggro and surviving is really a small part of tanking. As WW you have no effective CCs, no buffs for the group and no debuffs for the enemy. You are pretty much useless as a tank even if they give you a taunt.

Enslaved · June 2017

Guys, you are clueless if you think WW needs a taunt. You can make 1000 threads about this "issue", but if WW gets a taunt, PvP will be even more broken. How can't you see this? Tumorscale monster set equals perma snare and free damage every few seconds. Paired with WW it is cancer. If Zos gives WW a taunt it would be utter bs. Also, for any viable tanking outside normal dungeons, tank need to FKN block. How the F would you do that in WW form? You would go back to human form in 10-15 sec, so what is the point? Or you plan to feed of adds while veteran boss is mauling you to death, or, even worse, your teammates? WW transformation is too cluncky, too expensive and provides ZERO benefit to the group, even if you get taunt as WW. What would that mean, that you would not slot a regular 1h&s taunt and wait till transformation? Absolute bs.

As a tank, you need to provide group with a ton of useful stuff, and reliable and useful ultimate is just one of them. WW transformation is not that, period.

WatchYourSixx · June 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

Guys, you are clueless if you think WW needs a taunt. You can make 1000 threads about this "issue", but if WW gets a taunt, PvP will be even more broken. How can't you see this? Tumorscale monster set equals perma snare and free damage every few seconds. Paired with WW it is cancer. If Zos gives WW a taunt it would be utter bs. Also, for any viable tanking outside normal dungeons, tank need to FKN block. How the F would you do that in WW form? You would go back to human form in 10-15 sec, so what is the point? Or you plan to feed of adds while veteran boss is mauling you to death, or, even worse, your teammates? WW transformation is too cluncky, too expensive and provides ZERO benefit to the group, even if you get taunt as WW. What would that mean, that you would not slot a regular 1h&s taunt and wait till transformation? Absolute bs.

As a tank, you need to provide group with a ton of useful stuff, and reliable and useful ultimate is just one of them. WW transformation is not that, period.

Actually, ww regenerates it's timer when taking damage so you would be able to be in ww form for as long as you are taking damage. They have a synergy allies can activate that increases light and heavy attacks done by 10% that is completely unique to ww. They can cast roar and Grant major brutality to allies for 23 seconds, as well as having self heals in two different forms. And given they receive a boost in stamina and armor, they can get the health they need, and the resistance values all while wearing medium armor.

If I'm not mistaken you can also have a sword and board slotted and receive the passives for having it slotted, if you want reduced block cost and damage taken while blocking.

The tremorscale comments should be a non issue as taunts should never work in pvp. Any skill/proc that triggers off of a taunt shouldn't have any effect on PVP.

Danksta · June 2017

josiahva wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

I see... so you want to be able to proc Tremorscale while in WW form.

Still would suck.
If I see someone using WW in the dungeon - that's a reason to votekick.

Who tf said anything about a dungeon. And you voting to kick on a snap judgment says a lot about your lack of confidence in your abilities.

If I'm in dungeon, then I need a TANK or DD there, not a pointless roleplayer.
And I know what I'm talking about: WW has no damage, no survivability.
Use all your 10 skills slotted with animation cancel or GTFO!

If you know what you're talking about then you should be able to carry a little dead weight in a dungeon, and if you're using GF you should expect to. Plus if there's people who have gotten flawless vMA runs with WW I think it's good enough for a dungeon.

I have seen people run vMA as a tank as well, that doesn't mean you want a tank DPSing in your dungeon(though this type of thing happens often enough, I remember several times tanks queuing as DPS but not being able to put out the damage....most memorable was one that happened a few weeks ago....rand Elden Hollow two, queued up as a tank....there was a "DPS" there with a sword and board and 34k health who kept stealing taunts from me). That being said I do have what I call a "farming" tank that can do decent(20k single target) damage that I use to farm vet dungeons and vMA...but even so the main role isnt DPS. I dont doubt that there are werewolves out there that can do 30k DPS....but why settle for that when using more abilities will get you closer to 40k DPS? I always thought the resistance boost that WW gives you is far more suitable to tanks than DPS. So yes, a WW can do a vet dungeon just fine, I just don't see the advantage to DPS as one when your one self heal is magicka based and you have to all in stam to do decent dmg as WW, you cant even shield yourself. As opposed to non-WW where you have access to vigor and blood craze, or rally, etc and twice the amount of skills.

If you want people pulling 40k DPS bring your friends. Expecting that in PUGs is dumb af. I honestly don't care what other players are doing in base game dungeons. As long as they pretend to help we'll clear the dungeon with out much, if any, issue.

Iselin · June 2017

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

Why not just give every skill line a taunt....... I don't want a WW pretending to be a tank in my group - a tank is a tank.

But my tank get so much more tanky if I WW out...

Only someone who thinks tanking is just surviving and nothing else would ever say that. Tanks going into WW form in a dungeon is a sure sign of a noob pretend tank.

idk · June 2017

Queo wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

I see... so you want to be able to proc Tremorscale while in WW form.

Still would suck.
If I see someone using WW in the dungeon - that's a reason to votekick.

Especially in a dungeon that offers a mild challenge. If a tank went into WW form and died I'd vote kick for sure.

What would be the reason you vote kick? Because he cant keep aggro?

@Queo

I didn't say anything about agro and I specifically stated what would trigger my vote to kick. Maybe read it again.

Most 4 man dungeons realit don't need much tanking so I don't really acde if someone tanks them a a WW or with DW, but if they are dying (which was my statement in the post you quoted) they're obviously deserve to be vote kicked since they're a bad tank. I have patience for players learning but not for people who purposely choose add builds for such roles as tanks and fail miserably.

max_only · June 2017

As a werewolf, I am always a werewolf even when I'm in mer form. What we need is a small health regen, stam regen, or armor/resistance bonus in regular form.

I'm fine with ww not having a taunt however if we could get something in that theme, I'd like to turn off the fear in ww form as a morph, or maybe make that morph the taunt morph. Mostly I'm against ww getting a taunt bc I'm just imagining it being used irresponsibly.

Other than rp, what is the battle mechanics benefit to being a ww out of transformation? Vamps get "something" at all times. I wouldnt mind if they got a vamp lord transformation just so ww can get a persistent buff outside of transformation.

Enderus · June 2017

Prothwata wrote: »

The advantage is that nearly anyone can do solid damage as a werewolf in a vet dungeon with the right gear... 30k single target damage literally just by light attacking with brut/savagery/stam pots. My tank happened to be a wolf, and after countless wipes my pug group had on the final boss in direfrost, I wolfed out and solo'd the boss. While on the ground the pugs learned a lot. All of them thanked me for the completion.

I could see many benefits for a wolf being able to tank while putting out extra damage for the group on bosses that require less tanking more spanking.

Aye, agreed. And like I think I said, there's definitely a lot of potential for WW-tanking. Just has some minor drawbacks and hurdles to make it more viable and flexible aside from situations like you mentioned.

Asardes wrote: »

No, WW is not good as tank, because extra 10K resistance is useless in content that really needs one since mitigation from armor is capped at 50%. There are plenty of things that can get you killed quite fast if you are not blocking with a shield. And simply grabbing aggro and surviving is really a small part of tanking. As WW you have no effective CCs, no buffs for the group and no debuffs for the enemy. You are pretty much useless as a tank even if they give you a taunt.

You can still use sword and board in WW form, passives still apply. You just won't have the added benefit of having Defensive Posture slotted. I agree though that debuff and buff options in WW form are pretty limited. And not being able to activate synergies at all can also be a bit of a disadvantage. Damage shields are still possible from a few other sources. Those damage shield options obviously won't be as potent as DK or Sorcerer shield options, but they still can get part of the job done.

Chrlynsch · June 2017

Enderus wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

The advantage is that nearly anyone can do solid damage as a werewolf in a vet dungeon with the right gear... 30k single target damage literally just by light attacking with brut/savagery/stam pots. My tank happened to be a wolf, and after countless wipes my pug group had on the final boss in direfrost, I wolfed out and solo'd the boss. While on the ground the pugs learned a lot. All of them thanked me for the completion.

I could see many benefits for a wolf being able to tank while putting out extra damage for the group on bosses that require less tanking more spanking.

Aye, agreed. And like I think I said, there's definitely a lot of potential for WW-tanking. Just has some minor drawbacks and hurdles to make it more viable and flexible aside from situations like you mentioned.

Asardes wrote: »

No, WW is not good as tank, because extra 10K resistance is useless in content that really needs one since mitigation from armor is capped at 50%. There are plenty of things that can get you killed quite fast if you are not blocking with a shield. And simply grabbing aggro and surviving is really a small part of tanking. As WW you have no effective CCs, no buffs for the group and no debuffs for the enemy. You are pretty much useless as a tank even if they give you a taunt.

You can still use sword and board in WW form, passives still apply. You just won't have the added benefit of having Defensive Posture slotted. I agree though that debuff and buff options in WW form are pretty limited. And not being able to activate synergies at all can also be a bit of a disadvantage. Damage shields are still possible from a few other sources. Those damage shield options obviously won't be as potent as DK or Sorcerer shield options, but they still can get part of the job done.

You do not get passives from weapons.

CaptainBeerDude · June 2017

Iselin wrote: »

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

Why not just give every skill line a taunt....... I don't want a WW pretending to be a tank in my group - a tank is a tank.

But my tank get so much more tanky if I WW out...

Only someone who thinks tanking is just surviving and nothing else would ever say that. Tanks going into WW form in a dungeon is a sure sign of a noob pretend tank.

LOL. Ok, Brah. To be fair, I have minor altitis and have been on other toons recently. But sure, just assume I never use CC's, buffs, taunts and that I die all the time.

Have a nice day.

Iselin · June 2017

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

Why not just give every skill line a taunt....... I don't want a WW pretending to be a tank in my group - a tank is a tank.

But my tank get so much more tanky if I WW out...

Only someone who thinks tanking is just surviving and nothing else would ever say that. Tanks going into WW form in a dungeon is a sure sign of a noob pretend tank.

LOL. Ok, Brah. To be fair, I have minor altitis and have been on other toons recently. But sure, just assume I never use CC's, buffs, taunts and that I die all the time.

Have a nice day.

So you do all those things i WW form? Good to know you figured out a way to do what no one else can.

CaptainBeerDude · June 2017

Iselin wrote: »

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

Why not just give every skill line a taunt....... I don't want a WW pretending to be a tank in my group - a tank is a tank.

But my tank get so much more tanky if I WW out...

Only someone who thinks tanking is just surviving and nothing else would ever say that. Tanks going into WW form in a dungeon is a sure sign of a noob pretend tank.

LOL. Ok, Brah. To be fair, I have minor altitis and have been on other toons recently. But sure, just assume I never use CC's, buffs, taunts and that I die all the time.

Have a nice day.

So you do all those things i WW form? Good to know you figured out a way to do what no one else can.

Refer to thread title. We want to be able to do these things in WW form. At the moment I have to settle for using it on trash packs.

Rahotu · June 2017

sure,give ww a taunt,make it the ww ulti

Rahotu · June 2017

'transform to fleataxi,taunt nearest foe'

CaptainBeerDude · June 2017

Rahotu wrote: »

'transform to fleataxi,taunt nearest foe'

If changing the name of the skill line to fleataxi gives me constant uptime on taunt while transformed, I'm in.

Tirps · June 2017

Ok, this is just my personal opinion, but please don't add taunt for ww. Yes I get it that while you are in ww form you will gain some tanky aspects, but there isn't good enough reason to tank in ww form compared to human form. Werewolf can't apply any important debuffs to target which means huge dps loss for everyone, also weapon passives don't work while you are in ww form which means that you aren't any tankier than in human form, actually, you will become more squishy (if using 1h&shield).

Then ww also lacks utility skills. For example It doesn't have chains, Only real group utility that ww can offer is that one roar morph which gives major brutality for everyone who is near of you. Ww also gains 10k personal physical and spell resistance, but are they that good? usually tanks got already so much resistance that majority of that buff would be useless. Also, wouldn't that taunt and keeping the enemy still be sort of hilarious when ww gains huge dps boost from fearing enemies?

In my mind werewolfs are not meaned for tanking. You will lose too many important tanking aspects, but actually I think that ww is meaned purely for Dpsing and for pvp, ww has 2 really strong dots, extremely strong spammable skill and that fear, also that resistance bonus is ideal for medium armor builds.

ps. Why taunt shouldn't be added? Because tremorscale and then wws would steal agro from the tank. And it wouldn't be that good or useful.

Enderus · June 2017

Prothwata wrote: »

[You do not get passives from weapons.

Ah... damn me. This is one of those sorts of mechanical details I always seem to have backwards. Every time I take a break from the game I revert to assuming the passives do work in WW form. Hum.

mandricus · June 2017

So the OP would like to be able to use Tremorscale in WW form in PvP. Too easy to spot.

Queo · June 2017

mandricus wrote: »

So the OP would like to be able to use Tremorscale in WW form in PvP. Too easy to spot.

And yet you missed by a mile. I don't PvP much and i don't have nor want to farm ANY monster set. I hate farming for sets its a job, I don't play ESO for a job.

also PvP is a small part of the game. Every one already said that:
1) WW DPS suck no reason to use
2) Non WW class can use this, so what the problem, if WW suck as bad as every one says...

@Giles.floydub17_ESO your right i didnt see the "and died part", just glanced at what you posted.

While some anti-taunt people have posted statistical reason, which is appreciated, the biggest push back is.

"I don't need some nub screwing up my DP..."

arnt you in a guild? dont you have people you can DP with and not worry about it? Pugs should be fun not work, thats why you find a guild and make friends... Oh i see now.

MNsnowtaTy · June 2017

TheShadowScout wrote: »

A taunt.
Something that makes enemies attack them first and foremost.
For a wild, bestial monster that generally makes people run away in terror or being bitten and eaten.
...
Yeah, sounds logical.
NOT!

Game-wise they are supposed to be DPSing their way to their next meal, nomming of the ones they slay to extend their furrytime... not exactly the "tanky" playstyle, yes?

So I really see no need at all...

But they also can stay alive long in werewolf form by taking damage. I too wouldn't mind seeing a morph that would allow a howl as someone mentioned to let the werewolf pull things in say a certain radius to attack him/her.

Vampires get used for tanking just because of the magicka recovery they give, why not allow werewolves for the stamina recovery they give. Now they can both be used for stamina and magicka builds DPS or tanking.

mandricus · July 2017

@queo may be I've found a Solution for you. If, by any chance, pounce is considered a charge ability, the Tormentor set may be what you are looking for. Never tried it personally, so I don't know If it works, but could be worth trying. If you try it, would be nice to let us know If it works or not.

Ulo · July 2017

A WW with a taunt just seems like you want to die quicker, they arnt meant for tanking and i wouldnt want to see them turn into that either. Disclaimer: Although that is just my personal opion.

mandricus · July 2017

A WW with a taunt that can proc tremorscale, could be very interesting in PvP indeed.