Just got my riposte trans together last night..can't wait to try it out today. Was it you who said skoria you felt too squishy and switched to Malubeth?

Debating on monster helms..I have skoria, malubeth, bloodspawn or troll king that all seem somewhat viable..or possibly even 1 piece 1 piece..idk

That's what I was thinking as well..been running tremorscale magblade but wanted to give this a go to see what the hype was about and it'll be nice to not have to focus around heavy attacks for burst lol thanks for the reply

Is it a decent substitute for impregnable?

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Also, bouncing off this, are you guys going spell power enchants on jewelry for extra damage or what have you found best for this riposte trans setup? I know you gain a ton of recov from trans and some from riposte so what've you guys seen that would be optimal for the jewelry pieces? Also, are you going full mag enchants or have you tried some tri stat glyphs on some pieces?

Thanks again

I have been exclusively playing no-CP in Morrowind (don't think I've even set my champion points since ZoS reset them haha) so I'll speak to that. In part, it also depends on style but I prefer to run withmothers potent brew with most, if not all, tri-glyphs on my armor. Along with skoria this gives me a pretty solid amount of health to avoid getting constantly one-shot by proctards and gives me a sufficient, although not ideal, amounts of stamina. Especially since we get the 8% increased magicka passive my max magicka still remains respectable (over 30k). I make the low stamina work by running leeching strikes. I run lich, only because I have teammates running riposte and trans - lich plus witchmothers gives me plenty of sustain. So I run all spell damage enchants on my jewelry. You should be ok in sustain with riposte + trans + witchmothers (if you run that) with all spell damage glyphs. Just look for opportunities to resto heavy attack when you can to top off your magicka.

In CP, I probably wouldn't do much different TBH except I would go all max magicka glyphs since my health and stam would be buffed up enough from CP. I'd maybe even be able to get rid of witchmothers for trifood which is what I'd truthfully like to do but witchmothers just fits in so well with what I like to do in no-CP. You can really mix and match food and jewlrey glyphs to get the recovery you feel comfortable with. The one thing I really do suggest you try out though is leeching strikes. I feel like it gives just the right amount of stamina sustain for your to not have to worry about any other sources of it - when putting together the rest of your build it allows you to just focus on balancing magicka sustain with damage stats without worrying about stam.

CavalryPK wrote: »

@Waffennacht

no idea. did not test out imprag yet. I am leaning towards trans since the 5x bonus carries of to the other bar... same with riposte... which allows me to run 2x monster helm. imprag.. I would have to give up 2x monster bonus.

I agree with @CavalryPK . As I mentioned above, I can't imagine dropping skoria so this leaves me with using two 5-piece sets which only need to be active on one bar to receive their effects. This rules out impreg. I like to focus on damage sets that you can get the inferno staff in plus sets like clever, riposte, trans, lich, etc. that you can proc on the back bar before going back offensive. Or of course you can use two of those sets together, like trans + riposte. I just think that is by far the best way to go on a destro/restro build.

exeeter702 wrote: »

Yeah im honestly torn between 5h/1/1 julianos front trans back malubeth(skoria) and riposte / trans malubeth(skoria).

Im trying to do the math between shadow barrier uptime and healing received vs 15 percent damage reduction and more sustain. Would the extra spell pen and sd gylphs afforded via 5(7)light outclass the damage, healing recieved and defense of 5 heavy impen julianos.

I am enjoying both playstyles and have been doing alot of testing but cant really settle on it.

A blessing and a curse this game... especially with mag nb since day 1, ive never been complacent or content with a single pvp build for more than a month. Its always 1 skill short of fully functional, way too narrow in its effective purpose or just weaker than an alternative class with the same approach.

@exeeter702,

Think of it this way. when you wear 7 light armor with transmutation and riposte... you get the constant 15% mitigation on all dmg.... and crit resisit from trans from crazy spike dmgs... its like you are wearing heavy armor buuuut you are not... sooo your sustain is much better and you are rocking additional spell pen/recovery/spell cost from the light armor passives.

now your shadow barrier would not last the amazing 10 seconds since you are not wearing heavy ... but it will last 6 seconds. which his still good. and if you alternation healing patch and cloak.. you can pretty much keep it up 80 to 90 % of the time.

In pvp... when you cast healing path... you don't really spend the whole 11 seconds on the path.. you move around a lot.. so you actually cast healing patch way more then every 11 seconds.

I hope this was helpful let me know if this totally did not make sense.

Trans/riposte seems really passive. How is the damage output?

thankyourat wrote: »

Trans/riposte seems really passive. How is the damage output?

Lets just say. If you are playing a decent player, and in order to get a kill ...you will have to line up a bi4rst combo.

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Trans/riposte seems really passive. How is the damage output?

I just got it put together last night night. It isn't huge damage like I was getting on a heavy attack tremorscale build but the survivability is unreal. I was able to get in to a BG last night and I didn't have near the killing blows but my objective 1v1 or 1v2 fights were much easier and I was tanky AF fighting on flags keeping pressure and transmut buff on my group.

It's very versatile and I like the way it plays. Just have to time up your burst carefully but I can't wait when I can run with my group of 4 the support and potential is through the roof.

@HEBREWHAMMERRR , take that setup to Cyrodill. you will have lots of fun!

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Trans/riposte seems really passive. How is the damage output?

I just got it put together last night night. It isn't huge damage like I was getting on a heavy attack tremorscale build but the survivability is unreal. I was able to get in to a BG last night and I didn't have near the killing blows but my objective 1v1 or 1v2 fights were much easier and I was tanky AF fighting on flags keeping pressure and transmut buff on my group.

It's very versatile and I like the way it plays. Just have to time up your burst carefully but I can't wait when I can run with my group of 4 the support and potential is through the roof.

Lol welcome to how I've been playing mageblade for a year and a half.

(I edited this because there are lots of ways to play destroblade that are fun and effective. I just meant that this style is generally the strongest.)

Ishammael wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Is it a decent substitute for impregnable?

2500 crit resistance / 68 = Impreg reduces enemy crit damage by 36.76%.

Assuming enemies have 50% crit chance, 36.76% * .5 = 18.38% general damage mitigation from Impreg's 5pc bonus. This is not the exact value, as reducing crit damage isn't quite the same as raw mitigation from the total crit value, but it's close.

At 45% enemy crit chance, you mitigate about 16.54% of overall damage.

At 41% enemy crit chance, you mitigate about 15.07% of overall damage.

Therefore, Impreg's 5pc bonus can be said to break even with Riposte 5pc -- meaning they will mitigate approximately the same amount of overall damage during an extended fight -- against enemies with 41% crit chance. 40% is pretty standard for properly built enemies wearing light or medium armor in non-CP. Note that raw mitigation will outpace subtractive reduction of crit damage by a small margin, so the actual break even point between the two sets is probably more like 45% crit chance.

That said, Impreg flattens the peaks of enemy damage -- it cuts the tops off of crit spikes -- whereas Riposte lowers the entire damage curve across crits and non crits. This means that in practice, Impreg will save your life more. It will reduce those big crit bursts, and it's more effective against properly built, high crit chance opponents. But Riposte is uniformly effective regardless of enemy crit values, meaning it works better against poorly built opponents, AND it debuffs enemy damage against your allies too, AND it can occupy weapon slots on just one bar instead of both without losing any effectiveness, opening room for greater build diversity.

That's how Impreg sizes up against Riposte. Trans grants about half of the mitigation of Impreg, but it gives regen, benefits allies, and can sit on one bar without losing effectiveness like Riposte. Using those those two together capitalizes on all of their advantages and makes you way tankier than just Impreg would make you, gives more sustain, but lowers your damage versus something like Impreg + Willpower + Undaunted + vMA staves.

Also Malubad. Definitely the best raw defensive set for healy mageblades this patch imo, assuming you're a vampire or are using points in Befoul.

The only thing I'll add to this is the that 15% dmg reduction from Riposte applies to your shield which the crit resist from Impreg does not.

Truth!

CavalryPK wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Trans/riposte seems really passive. How is the damage output?

I just got it put together last night night. It isn't huge damage like I was getting on a heavy attack tremorscale build but the survivability is unreal. I was able to get in to a BG last night and I didn't have near the killing blows but my objective 1v1 or 1v2 fights were much easier and I was tanky AF fighting on flags keeping pressure and transmut buff on my group.

It's very versatile and I like the way it plays. Just have to time up your burst carefully but I can't wait when I can run with my group of 4 the support and potential is through the roof.

Lol welcome to destro mageblade done right.

Ishammael wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Is it a decent substitute for impregnable?

2500 crit resistance / 68 = Impreg reduces enemy crit damage by 36.76%.

Assuming enemies have 50% crit chance, 36.76% * .5 = 18.38% general damage mitigation from Impreg's 5pc bonus. This is not the exact value, as reducing crit damage isn't quite the same as raw mitigation from the total crit value, but it's close.

At 45% enemy crit chance, you mitigate about 16.54% of overall damage.

At 41% enemy crit chance, you mitigate about 15.07% of overall damage.

Therefore, Impreg's 5pc bonus can be said to break even with Riposte 5pc -- meaning they will mitigate approximately the same amount of overall damage during an extended fight -- against enemies with 41% crit chance. 40% is pretty standard for properly built enemies wearing light or medium armor in non-CP. Note that raw mitigation will outpace subtractive reduction of crit damage by a small margin, so the actual break even point between the two sets is probably more like 45% crit chance.

That said, Impreg flattens the peaks of enemy damage -- it cuts the tops off of crit spikes -- whereas Riposte lowers the entire damage curve across crits and non crits. This means that in practice, Impreg will save your life more. It will reduce those big crit bursts, and it's more effective against properly built, high crit chance opponents. But Riposte is uniformly effective regardless of enemy crit values, meaning it works better against poorly built opponents, AND it debuffs enemy damage against your allies too, AND it can occupy weapon slots on just one bar instead of both without losing any effectiveness, opening room for greater build diversity.

That's how Impreg sizes up against Riposte. Trans grants about half of the mitigation of Impreg, but it gives regen, benefits allies, and can sit on one bar without losing effectiveness like Riposte. Using those those two together capitalizes on all of their advantages and makes you way tankier than just Impreg would make you, gives more sustain, but lowers your damage versus something like Impreg + Willpower + Undaunted + vMA staves.

Also Malubad. Definitely the best raw defensive set for healy mageblades this patch imo, assuming you're a vampire or are using points in Befoul.

The only thing I'll add to this is the that 15% dmg reduction from Riposte applies to your shield which the crit resist from Impreg does not.

Truth!

Ok, now that we have this info. Lets not talk about it at all. For reasons. ...

Would you prefer I keep all my secrets to myself?

CavalryPK wrote: »

Ok, now that we have this info. Lets not talk about it at all. For reasons. ...

I said in another thread MagBlade was secretly OP, all the more reason now to keep it a secret!

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

Ok, now that we have this info. Lets not talk about it at all. For reasons. ...

I said in another thread MagBlade was secretly OP, all the more reason now to keep it a secret!

Heal support mageblade has always been pretty strong in solid groups, but mageblade is and has been far from OP.

CavalryPK wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Trans/riposte seems really passive. How is the damage output?

I just got it put together last night night. It isn't huge damage like I was getting on a heavy attack tremorscale build but the survivability is unreal. I was able to get in to a BG last night and I didn't have near the killing blows but my objective 1v1 or 1v2 fights were much easier and I was tanky AF fighting on flags keeping pressure and transmut buff on my group.

It's very versatile and I like the way it plays. Just have to time up your burst carefully but I can't wait when I can run with my group of 4 the support and potential is through the roof.

Lol welcome to destro mageblade done right.

Ishammael wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Is it a decent substitute for impregnable?

2500 crit resistance / 68 = Impreg reduces enemy crit damage by 36.76%.

Assuming enemies have 50% crit chance, 36.76% * .5 = 18.38% general damage mitigation from Impreg's 5pc bonus. This is not the exact value, as reducing crit damage isn't quite the same as raw mitigation from the total crit value, but it's close.

At 45% enemy crit chance, you mitigate about 16.54% of overall damage.

At 41% enemy crit chance, you mitigate about 15.07% of overall damage.

Therefore, Impreg's 5pc bonus can be said to break even with Riposte 5pc -- meaning they will mitigate approximately the same amount of overall damage during an extended fight -- against enemies with 41% crit chance. 40% is pretty standard for properly built enemies wearing light or medium armor in non-CP. Note that raw mitigation will outpace subtractive reduction of crit damage by a small margin, so the actual break even point between the two sets is probably more like 45% crit chance.

That said, Impreg flattens the peaks of enemy damage -- it cuts the tops off of crit spikes -- whereas Riposte lowers the entire damage curve across crits and non crits. This means that in practice, Impreg will save your life more. It will reduce those big crit bursts, and it's more effective against properly built, high crit chance opponents. But Riposte is uniformly effective regardless of enemy crit values, meaning it works better against poorly built opponents, AND it debuffs enemy damage against your allies too, AND it can occupy weapon slots on just one bar instead of both without losing any effectiveness, opening room for greater build diversity.

That's how Impreg sizes up against Riposte. Trans grants about half of the mitigation of Impreg, but it gives regen, benefits allies, and can sit on one bar without losing effectiveness like Riposte. Using those those two together capitalizes on all of their advantages and makes you way tankier than just Impreg would make you, gives more sustain, but lowers your damage versus something like Impreg + Willpower + Undaunted + vMA staves.

Also Malubad. Definitely the best raw defensive set for healy mageblades this patch imo, assuming you're a vampire or are using points in Befoul.

The only thing I'll add to this is the that 15% dmg reduction from Riposte applies to your shield which the crit resist from Impreg does not.

Truth!

Ok, now that we have this info. Lets not talk about it at all. For reasons. ...

Would you prefer I keep all my secrets to myself?

Nah, only within secret magblad circle, that take special sort of dark ritual to be a part of.

Jokes aside... I am just afraid zos gona nerf it. I would rather have them focus on procs. And then if and only if riposte truly over preforms then adjustment might he needed.

I plaster my secret mageblade circle secrets all over the forums and Youtube. Oops..

Riposte and Impreg are both very op. lol I don't know what ZOS was thinking with these two sets.

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

While we're on the topic of this secret magblade meeting. I decided I want to race change away from my Breton (pre-1t) when I could run lich julianos and be god mode :'(. I'm debating on altmer, dunmer or argonian. I think all have their advantages but leaning toward dunmer for the extra fire resist since im vamp and getting my recovery from that or altmer for just insane recovery. However, argonian also really intrigues me especially for 1vX..I plan to solely focus on BG (when they work..lul) and non-CP. any advice/opinions?

Thanks y'all

I would probably go argonian due to the awesome healing bonuses, magblade has lots of HOTS like from funnel, healing path. degen and leeching strikes.

There is only one problem. Argonais are soo ungly. but senpai is seksy. he is only one who can rock an argonain .

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Breton cost reduction is tiny and stacks multiplicatively now with other sources of cost reduction. This is a nerf from last patch when it was additive. Objectively inferior to high elf with all of the easy regen sources that we have now.

High elf regen synergises well with all the sustain sets that we need to use this patch, and destro abilities get a little damage boost. Best offensive race imo.

Might be misunderstanding here but the only sources of cost reduction that Breton's racial stacks with multiplicatively are jewelry enchants. A Breton in 7/7 light wearing 5/5 Seducer's still reduces total cost by 25%. 3% isn't a lot until you consider some magicka skills cost over 3600. If you're in a situation where you're having to spam spam a skill like cloak or healing ward Breton is saving you a bit over 108 per cast. At one cast per second that's equivalent to 216 recovery. Compare that to a high elf where even if you have 2000 base recovery (which most won't have) the high elf passive is giving 180 recovery.

The extra high elf damage is nice but it always felt a bit wasted to me. The only things it helped me with as a magblade are destro staff attacks, destro ult, and flame reach, the latter two of which I use only situationally. Obviously if you want to min/max damage Altmer would be better than Breton but it seems like the Breton's magic defense would be more practical in PvP, especially with the preponderance of damage magsorcs now.

Comfortably_Buzzed wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Breton cost reduction is tiny and stacks multiplicatively now with other sources of cost reduction. This is a nerf from last patch when it was additive. Objectively inferior to high elf with all of the easy regen sources that we have now.

High elf regen synergises well with all the sustain sets that we need to use this patch, and destro abilities get a little damage boost. Best offensive race imo.

Might be misunderstanding here but the only sources of cost reduction that Breton's racial stacks with multiplicatively are jewelry enchants. A Breton in 7/7 light wearing 5/5 Seducer's still reduces total cost by 25%. 3% isn't a lot until you consider some magicka skills cost over 3600. If you're in a situation where you're having to spam spam a skill like cloak or healing ward Breton is saving you a bit over 108 per cast. At one cast per second that's equivalent to 216 recovery. Compare that to a high elf where even if you have 2000 base recovery (which most won't have) the high elf passive is giving 180 recovery.

The extra high elf damage is nice but it always felt a bit wasted to me. The only things it helped me with as a magblade are destro staff attacks, destro ult, and flame reach, the latter two of which I use only situationally. Obviously if you want to min/max damage Altmer would be better than Breton but it seems like the Breton's magic defense would be more practical in PvP, especially with the preponderance of damage magsorcs now.

I will caution as such:
1. Converting cost reduction to recovery is a bad idea because cost reduction will never return your resources. There are only a few builds/races that can support cost reduction over recovery. (Reguard Stamina, DKs, Argonians)
2. The damage difference between Altmer and Argonian is 4% elemental and 7% mana. If you have 32k base mana, 7% is 2.2k. The total damage difference is quite large.
3. Argonian recovery passive is the best in the game right now. It gives you significant flexibility in gearing. While it is tempting to convert the net benefit to recovery, it is in fact much better because it provides all of the resources instantly. 5k of each resources is essentially a tripot... every time you drink a tripot (haha).