A Question For the Community

Ch4mpTW · June 2017

I've been thinking for a while, and I've been wondering something... Why does so much of the community beg and plead for Nightblade buffs, and claim how weak they are — when the vast majority of classes in PvP are Nightblades? Also, Nightblade self-buffs are among the most strongest buffs in the game. Not to mention that the class has: Mobility, instant stealth, an execute, strong DOT's, strong CC's, a very low-cost ultimate, a strong form of damage mitigation, a strong spammable, and strong sustain...?

Why is this, when things like MagWardens are struggling hard and DK's still lack mobility and an execute. When Templars and Sorcs have caught repeated nerfs back after back, and DK's as well. Mind you that I'm speaking from a PvE and PvP perspective. By the way, the easiest class by far to do VMA on is a Nightblade currently (used to be Sorcerer and or Templar).

So yeah. Can you all explain why there is so much parroting about how weak Nightblades are, when they are clearly in an excellent spot? Otherwise, why would there be so many people using Nightblades and recommending them to other players?

Edit: I just realized what it reminds me of. It reminds me of the "buff D.Va threads" that appear on the Overwatch forums. Lol. D.Va is a hero that is incredibly good as a tank, has pretty solid damage, has infinite ammunition in her mecha, has an ultimate with ridiculous range that can nuke an entire area, does strong sustained damage out of her mecha, can generate ultimate fairly quickly, has a defense matrix that sponges tons of damage for however long it's active (and can absorb ultimates entirely), has insane mobility with very short cooldown, gets arguably the best skins and intros in the game, etc. And yet, players constantly complain and whine how underpowered D.Va is. Meanwhile she's always been among the top 2 best tanks every season, and is pretty much a mandatory for the pro circuit. It also doesn't help her case that most players who use tanks are D.Va mains. Lol.

nhisso · June 2017

Bads gravitate towards assassin type classes and cry about how weak they are when they cant faceroll. Happens in every mmo

Ch4mpTW · June 2017

nhisso wrote: »

Bads gravitate towards assassin type classes and cry about how weak they are when they cant faceroll. Happens in every mmo

But the thing is, Nightblades can faceroll most things with relative ease. Hence why it's so beginner friendly as a class. It's also not just the bad players I see whining about how underpowered Nightblades are, but a lot of players you'd think otherwise as well saying these things. "Nightblades are so weak, and lacking..." "Nightblades are the forgotten DPS..." Yet if you'd tally up the most used class for PvP, you'd find them to be Nightblades. Lol. Say what? Correct me if I'm mistaken, but PvP was originally "the end-game". Why would people intentionally use something so supposedly weak in an environment that is so competitive and unforgiving? Makes no sense.

IcyDeadPeople · June 2017

I don't know about PVE, but in PVP I've spent some time playing all 5 classes and magicka NB is both the most fun and also the most challenging IMO.

I suspect lot of people choose nightblades simply because they are fun to play, even if they are a bit more challenging than sorc or warden.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2017

I play all five classes and I can tell you still to this day magic Nightblade is the hardest . I can kill players in one rotation with stam DK , I can relax on Sorc and fight groups . Templar is still great with poweroflight and jabs . I screw up one time on Magblade an Bam dead . Do you play Magblade ?

Shadzilla · June 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I've been thinking for a while, and I've been wondering something... Why does so much of the community beg and plead for Nightblade buffs, and claim how weak they are — when the vast majority of classes in PvP are Nightblades? Also, Nightblade self-buffs are among the most strongest buffs in the game. Not to mention that the class has: Mobility, instant stealth, an execute, strong DOT's, strong CC's, a very low-cost ultimate, a strong form of damage mitigation, a strong spammable, and strong sustain...?

Why is this, when things like MagWardens are struggling hard and DK's still lack mobility and an execute. When Templars and Sorcs have caught repeated nerfs back after back, and DK's as well. Mind you that I'm speaking from a PvE and PvP perspective. By the way, the easiest class by far to do VMA on is a Nightblade currently (used to be Sorcerer and or Templar).

So yeah. Can you all explain why there is so much parroting about how weak Nightblades are, when they are clearly in an excellent spot? Otherwise, why would there be so many people using Nightblades and recommending them to other players?

Edit: I just realized what it reminds me of. It reminds me of the "buff D.Va threads" that appear on the Overwatch forums. Lol. D.Va is a hero that is incredibly good as a tank, has pretty solid damage, has infinite ammunition in her mecha, has an ultimate with ridiculous range that can nuke an entire area, does strong sustained damage out of her mecha, can generate ultimate fairly quickly, has a defense matrix that sponges tons of damage for however long it's active (and can absorb ultimates entirely), has insane mobility with very short cooldown, gets arguably the best skins and intros in the game, etc. And yet, players constantly complain and whine how underpowered D.Va is. Meanwhile she's always been among the top 2 best tanks every season, and is pretty much a mandatory for the pro circuit. It also doesn't help her case that most players who use tanks are D.Va mains. Lol.

There is a reason all the #1 world trial scores last patch had either 7 mag sorcs and 1 mag dk, or 6 mag sorcs and 2 mag dks. Nightblades are decent in pvp, considering cloak is broken AF and damage from stealth keeps getting nerfed into the ground. As for PVE nbs have never been the best at dpsing, healing, or tanking. All the top mag sorcs I know were pulling around 57-62k single target dps. Please show me a NB parse that can even remotely compare to that.

Ch4mpTW · June 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I play all five classes and I can tell you still to this day magic Nightblade is the hardest . I can kill players in one rotation with stam DK , I can relax on Sorc and fight groups . Templar is still great with poweroflight and jabs . I screw up one time on Magblade an Bam dead . Do you play Magblade ?

Yes. In fact, my first ever Flawless Conqueror was a MagBlade. With my second being a MagPlar. The third being a MagSorc. On console, my first Flawless Conqueror was a MagSorc. And my second a MagBlade. I also stopped using my MagBlade in PvP a very long time ago and shifted to making a MagDK my main for PvP, due to how cheesy I felt the class and overall playstyle is. Incredible burst damage. Insta-stealth. Ridiculously good mobility to go with that stealth, pets, amazing sustain, an execute, very powerful self/buffs, spectral arrow, the best CC in the game (Mass Hysteria), an incredible low-costing ultimate, etc.

I genuinely don't see how or why people keep claiming MagBlades are so squishy and require only a single mistake to be made for you to die. I find that to be the polar opposite to a class such as DragonKnights. You screw-up ganking or if things don't go your way in a fight with a Nightblade, just hit that cloak and haul cheeks away. The sheer fact you can disengage and engage at will alone gives NB's an advantage over all other classes in PvP. Especially with how strong stealth is as a factor in that atmosphere (PvP). And I think you know that. Lol.

But this isn't about just PvP. This about PvE as well. For example:

Shadzilla wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I've been thinking for a while, and I've been wondering something... Why does so much of the community beg and plead for Nightblade buffs, and claim how weak they are — when the vast majority of classes in PvP are Nightblades? Also, Nightblade self-buffs are among the most strongest buffs in the game. Not to mention that the class has: Mobility, instant stealth, an execute, strong DOT's, strong CC's, a very low-cost ultimate, a strong form of damage mitigation, a strong spammable, and strong sustain...?

Why is this, when things like MagWardens are struggling hard and DK's still lack mobility and an execute. When Templars and Sorcs have caught repeated nerfs back after back, and DK's as well. Mind you that I'm speaking from a PvE and PvP perspective. By the way, the easiest class by far to do VMA on is a Nightblade currently (used to be Sorcerer and or Templar).

So yeah. Can you all explain why there is so much parroting about how weak Nightblades are, when they are clearly in an excellent spot? Otherwise, why would there be so many people using Nightblades and recommending them to other players?

Edit: I just realized what it reminds me of. It reminds me of the "buff D.Va threads" that appear on the Overwatch forums. Lol. D.Va is a hero that is incredibly good as a tank, has pretty solid damage, has infinite ammunition in her mecha, has an ultimate with ridiculous range that can nuke an entire area, does strong sustained damage out of her mecha, can generate ultimate fairly quickly, has a defense matrix that sponges tons of damage for however long it's active (and can absorb ultimates entirely), has insane mobility with very short cooldown, gets arguably the best skins and intros in the game, etc. And yet, players constantly complain and whine how underpowered D.Va is. Meanwhile she's always been among the top 2 best tanks every season, and is pretty much a mandatory for the pro circuit. It also doesn't help her case that most players who use tanks are D.Va mains. Lol.

There is a reason all the #1 world trial scores last patch had either 7 mag sorcs and 1 mag dk, or 6 mag sorcs and 2 mag dks. Nightblades are decent in pvp, considering cloak is broken AF and damage from stealth keeps getting nerfed into the ground. As for PVE nbs have never been the best at dpsing, healing, or tanking. All the top mag sorcs I know were pulling around 57-62k single target dps. Please show me a NB parse that can even remotely compare to that.

Are you really going to sit there and pretend that Nightblades are garbage damage dealers in PvE, just because they aren't pulling Sorc numbers? Really? You're REALLY going to sit there, and act like Nightblades don't have absolutely incredible: Buffs, damage (burst and DOT), self-healing, and sustain? Really? Tell you what. You let me know when Templars get as many self-buffs and benefits that Nightblades do. Let me know when Templars get great mobility. You let me know when Dragonknights can sustain half as decent as Nightblades, and can have as good burst damage. Better yet. Just let me know when DK's get an execute that's class specific, and reliable mobility that isn't generic as well. Let me know when Wardens can do half of what Nightblades can.

WhitePawPrints · June 2017

Nightblades are good... because you see them in Cyrodil a lot? There is no correlation at all to a class's strengths and weaknesses and the number of players that choose that class. Comparing class strengths come from players using classes to their full potential, and that is measured by the leaderboards.

I see quite a few of nightblades in Cyrodil, and I see them get wrecked just about every fight that they're revealed in. They just don't have the sustain Dragonknights and Templars have with their self heals, or the shields of Sorcerers.

Ch4mpTW · June 2017

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Nightblades are good... because you see them in Cyrodil a lot? There is no correlation at all to a class's strengths and weaknesses and the number of players that choose that class. Comparing class strengths come from players using classes to their full potential, and that is measured by the leaderboards.

I see quite a few of nightblades in Cyrodil, and I see them get wrecked just about every fight that they're revealed in. They just don't have the sustain Dragonknights and Templars have with their self heals, or the shields of Sorcerers.

Quick question. The highest score ever achieved in Maelstrom Arena was achieved by a Nightblade, correct? It was also the first class to ever enter the 600k range, correct? Also, Nightblades are often recommended for learning VMA and farming it — correct? Also, the class brings the most to the table and does the most, yes? What other class has: Incredible sustain, incredible self-healing, an amazing execute, insta-stealth, self-buffs that come close to NB's that aren't generic, high burst damage, high damage over time damage, numerous CC's that also put out solid damage, incredible mitigation, amazing mobility, and access to pets. Sorry, but Sorcerers don't have all of that.

In fact, let me go on ahead and mention what drove me to make this thread. I logged into my MagBlade (after admittedly not using it for a very long time), and just demolished things with it. I go and then ask a few random folks to duel me, and the bodies just fall. With little to no effort at all.

You see, this isn't a thread asking for Nightblades to be nerfed. Not at all. This is a thread asking why it is that people want for a class as strong as Nightblades to receive more buffs, when other classes are lacking severely in pretty important departments. Meanwhile Nightblades have them in spades. This is a thread asking for why it is as a community people are asking for buffs for something already in a great spot, and can do above and beyond what other classes can. Why not ask for said other classes to be buffed?

WhitePawPrints · June 2017

Ahhh... I get it. Good troll.

Bonzodog01 · June 2017

I have to say it, but you are almost entirely focused on Mag Blades here.

The ones asking for NB Buffs are the Stam Blades with Bow and DW. Ever tried running one of those in Cyro?

Yeah, not a lot of fun. We have "hidden", then cross our fingers and hope an ambush/killers blade/surprise attack combo will down our victims. But of course, they hit like wet lettuce when their targets have 30K+ health, heavy armor and are mobile tanks.

And a stam NB in game right now is really squishy.

They don't do too bad in overland PvE, but even then, a dolmen boss can prove to be a challenge. It takes a LOT of skill and determination to be able to play a Stam NB right now, and hellish amounts of perseverance.

ArchMikem · June 2017

I want to think they want PvE buffs for the Nightblade. My Stamblade is terrible in PvE Group content, and now that abilities cost twice as much I'm sure it's even much worse now.

Morgul667 · June 2017

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

I have to say it, but you are almost entirely focused on Mag Blades here.

The ones asking for NB Buffs are the Stam Blades with Bow and DW. Ever tried running one of those in Cyro?

Yeah, not a lot of fun. We have "hidden", then cross our fingers and hope an ambush/killers blade/surprise attack combo will down our victims. But of course, they hit like wet lettuce when their targets have 30K+ health, heavy armor and are mobile tanks.

And a stam NB in game right now is really squishy.

They don't do too bad in overland PvE, but even then, a dolmen boss can prove to be a challenge. It takes a LOT of skill and determination to be able to play a Stam NB right now, and hellish amounts of perseverance.

That also makes them interesting. Dunno about them too much yet.

But leveling one to try and see.

Fur_like_snow · June 2017

few differences I've noticed between playing a nightblade vs playing a warden. I can fluidly work thru my rotation of ambush incap la SA la execute because my skills can actually be animation canceled unlike well...basically every skill a warden has to offer. Warden just feels clunky and outta place. 3 sec delay on stun 1.5 sec delay on spammable with no class gap closer on the level of ambush is a joke tbh. This isn't the nightblade classes fault that warden feels lukewarm just a example of how Zeni doesn't know how to bring the other classes up to the same level mechanically.

zyk · June 2017

It's not a fact that Nightblades are the most-played class in PVP. Even if that were true, it is certainly not the most played class among experienced players or in groups. According to forum polls, Templar tends to be voted as the most-played class.

The general consensus is that Stam NBs are weak in PVE, but strong in PVP and that Magicka NBs are competent in PVE, but generally weak in PVP. Both archetypes have PVP niches they excel at; ganking for Stamina, bombing for Magicka.

The myth of the OP NB comes from players who struggle with cloak -- usually because they choose not to run a counter for it. I know what this is like because I often choose to run without a good counter to cloak. It's a pain when it happens, but a trade-off I choose.

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

The ones asking for NB Buffs are the Stam Blades with Bow and DW. Ever tried running one of those in Cyro?

DW/Bow Stam NB is a *very* strong basis for builds.

Ch4mpTW · June 2017

zyk wrote: »

It's not a fact that Nightblades are the most-played class in PVP. Even if that were true, it is certainly not the most played class among experienced players or in groups. According to forum polls, Templar tends to be voted as the most-played class.

The general consensus is that Stam NBs are weak in PVE, but strong in PVP and that Magicka NBs are competent in PVE, but generally weak in PVP. Both archetypes have PVP niches they excel at; ganking for Stamina, bombing for Magicka.

The myth of the OP NB comes from players who struggle with cloak -- usually because they choose not to run a counter for it. I know what this is like because I often choose to run without a good counter to cloak. It's a pain when it happens, but a trade-off I choose.

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

The ones asking for NB Buffs are the Stam Blades with Bow and DW. Ever tried running one of those in Cyro?

DW/Bow Stam NB is a *very* strong basis for builds.

I could agree with this. Also, there's a StamNB in 1 of my trial guilds that I run with relatively frequently. And he pulls absolutely incredible DPS with it. Of course he runs DW and Bow (as that's considered the staple for effective stamina builds), but the sheer amount of damage he does is amazing. Mind you, he's not even in best-in-slot gear. As he hasn't acquired all the pieces he is searching for. Yet still he saws through veteran trial content with a hot knife through butter. And when he's in PvP? Absolutely monster. Crushes people with ease.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I play all five classes and I can tell you still to this day magic Nightblade is the hardest . I can kill players in one rotation with stam DK , I can relax on Sorc and fight groups . Templar is still great with poweroflight and jabs . I screw up one time on Magblade an Bam dead . Do you play Magblade ?

Yes. In fact, my first ever Flawless Conqueror was a MagBlade. With my second being a MagPlar. The third being a MagSorc. On console, my first Flawless Conqueror was a MagSorc. And my second a MagBlade. I also stopped using my MagBlade in PvP a very long time ago and shifted to making a MagDK my main for PvP, due to how cheesy I felt the class and overall playstyle is. Incredible burst damage. Insta-stealth. Ridiculously good mobility to go with that stealth, pets, amazing sustain, an execute, very powerful self/buffs, spectral arrow, the best CC in the game (Mass Hysteria), an incredible low-costing ultimate, etc.

I genuinely don't see how or why people keep claiming MagBlades are so squishy and require only a single mistake to be made for you to die. I find that to be the polar opposite to a class such as DragonKnights. You screw-up ganking or if things don't go your way in a fight with a Nightblade, just hit that cloak and haul cheeks away. The sheer fact you can disengage and engage at will alone gives NB's an advantage over all other classes in PvP. Especially with how strong stealth is as a factor in that atmosphere (PvP). And I think you know that. Lol.

But this isn't about just PvP. This about PvE as well. For example:

Shadzilla wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I've been thinking for a while, and I've been wondering something... Why does so much of the community beg and plead for Nightblade buffs, and claim how weak they are — when the vast majority of classes in PvP are Nightblades? Also, Nightblade self-buffs are among the most strongest buffs in the game. Not to mention that the class has: Mobility, instant stealth, an execute, strong DOT's, strong CC's, a very low-cost ultimate, a strong form of damage mitigation, a strong spammable, and strong sustain...?

Why is this, when things like MagWardens are struggling hard and DK's still lack mobility and an execute. When Templars and Sorcs have caught repeated nerfs back after back, and DK's as well. Mind you that I'm speaking from a PvE and PvP perspective. By the way, the easiest class by far to do VMA on is a Nightblade currently (used to be Sorcerer and or Templar).

So yeah. Can you all explain why there is so much parroting about how weak Nightblades are, when they are clearly in an excellent spot? Otherwise, why would there be so many people using Nightblades and recommending them to other players?

Edit: I just realized what it reminds me of. It reminds me of the "buff D.Va threads" that appear on the Overwatch forums. Lol. D.Va is a hero that is incredibly good as a tank, has pretty solid damage, has infinite ammunition in her mecha, has an ultimate with ridiculous range that can nuke an entire area, does strong sustained damage out of her mecha, can generate ultimate fairly quickly, has a defense matrix that sponges tons of damage for however long it's active (and can absorb ultimates entirely), has insane mobility with very short cooldown, gets arguably the best skins and intros in the game, etc. And yet, players constantly complain and whine how underpowered D.Va is. Meanwhile she's always been among the top 2 best tanks every season, and is pretty much a mandatory for the pro circuit. It also doesn't help her case that most players who use tanks are D.Va mains. Lol.

There is a reason all the #1 world trial scores last patch had either 7 mag sorcs and 1 mag dk, or 6 mag sorcs and 2 mag dks. Nightblades are decent in pvp, considering cloak is broken AF and damage from stealth keeps getting nerfed into the ground. As for PVE nbs have never been the best at dpsing, healing, or tanking. All the top mag sorcs I know were pulling around 57-62k single target dps. Please show me a NB parse that can even remotely compare to that.

Are you really going to sit there and pretend that Nightblades are garbage damage dealers in PvE, just because they aren't pulling Sorc numbers? Really? You're REALLY going to sit there, and act like Nightblades don't have absolutely incredible: Buffs, damage (burst and DOT), self-healing, and sustain? Really? Tell you what. You let me know when Templars get as many self-buffs and benefits that Nightblades do. Let me know when Templars get great mobility. You let me know when Dragonknights can sustain half as decent as Nightblades, and can have as good burst damage. Better yet. Just let me know when DK's get an execute that's class specific, and reliable mobility that isn't generic as well. Let me know when Wardens can do half of what Nightblades can.

Then show us some PVP video . Teach me how to play Magblade and show me don't tell me . I don't care about PVE as PVE is predictable . Let's see the build that's been eluding all of us .

Zalicius · June 2017

Ummm, because people in the forums are whiners?

Ch4mpTW · June 2017

Zalicius wrote: »

Ummm, because people in the forums are whiners?

I could agree with this, as I myself was 1 for a very long time. Nowadays I just whine about things that I consider to be big deals (e.g. How weak Wardens are compared to other classes, pets not self-healing between engagements, why it is that people like the travesty that is pineapple pizza, CC-break and immunity being bugged and clunky, how a Tel Galen and a lot of other structures in Morrowind look phallic, etc.).

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I play all five classes and I can tell you still to this day magic Nightblade is the hardest . I can kill players in one rotation with stam DK , I can relax on Sorc and fight groups . Templar is still great with poweroflight and jabs . I screw up one time on Magblade an Bam dead . Do you play Magblade ?

Yes. In fact, my first ever Flawless Conqueror was a MagBlade. With my second being a MagPlar. The third being a MagSorc. On console, my first Flawless Conqueror was a MagSorc. And my second a MagBlade. I also stopped using my MagBlade in PvP a very long time ago and shifted to making a MagDK my main for PvP, due to how cheesy I felt the class and overall playstyle is. Incredible burst damage. Insta-stealth. Ridiculously good mobility to go with that stealth, pets, amazing sustain, an execute, very powerful self/buffs, spectral arrow, the best CC in the game (Mass Hysteria), an incredible low-costing ultimate, etc.

I genuinely don't see how or why people keep claiming MagBlades are so squishy and require only a single mistake to be made for you to die. I find that to be the polar opposite to a class such as DragonKnights. You screw-up ganking or if things don't go your way in a fight with a Nightblade, just hit that cloak and haul cheeks away. The sheer fact you can disengage and engage at will alone gives NB's an advantage over all other classes in PvP. Especially with how strong stealth is as a factor in that atmosphere (PvP). And I think you know that. Lol.

But this isn't about just PvP. This about PvE as well. For example:

Shadzilla wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I've been thinking for a while, and I've been wondering something... Why does so much of the community beg and plead for Nightblade buffs, and claim how weak they are — when the vast majority of classes in PvP are Nightblades? Also, Nightblade self-buffs are among the most strongest buffs in the game. Not to mention that the class has: Mobility, instant stealth, an execute, strong DOT's, strong CC's, a very low-cost ultimate, a strong form of damage mitigation, a strong spammable, and strong sustain...?

Why is this, when things like MagWardens are struggling hard and DK's still lack mobility and an execute. When Templars and Sorcs have caught repeated nerfs back after back, and DK's as well. Mind you that I'm speaking from a PvE and PvP perspective. By the way, the easiest class by far to do VMA on is a Nightblade currently (used to be Sorcerer and or Templar).

So yeah. Can you all explain why there is so much parroting about how weak Nightblades are, when they are clearly in an excellent spot? Otherwise, why would there be so many people using Nightblades and recommending them to other players?

Edit: I just realized what it reminds me of. It reminds me of the "buff D.Va threads" that appear on the Overwatch forums. Lol. D.Va is a hero that is incredibly good as a tank, has pretty solid damage, has infinite ammunition in her mecha, has an ultimate with ridiculous range that can nuke an entire area, does strong sustained damage out of her mecha, can generate ultimate fairly quickly, has a defense matrix that sponges tons of damage for however long it's active (and can absorb ultimates entirely), has insane mobility with very short cooldown, gets arguably the best skins and intros in the game, etc. And yet, players constantly complain and whine how underpowered D.Va is. Meanwhile she's always been among the top 2 best tanks every season, and is pretty much a mandatory for the pro circuit. It also doesn't help her case that most players who use tanks are D.Va mains. Lol.

There is a reason all the #1 world trial scores last patch had either 7 mag sorcs and 1 mag dk, or 6 mag sorcs and 2 mag dks. Nightblades are decent in pvp, considering cloak is broken AF and damage from stealth keeps getting nerfed into the ground. As for PVE nbs have never been the best at dpsing, healing, or tanking. All the top mag sorcs I know were pulling around 57-62k single target dps. Please show me a NB parse that can even remotely compare to that.

Are you really going to sit there and pretend that Nightblades are garbage damage dealers in PvE, just because they aren't pulling Sorc numbers? Really? You're REALLY going to sit there, and act like Nightblades don't have absolutely incredible: Buffs, damage (burst and DOT), self-healing, and sustain? Really? Tell you what. You let me know when Templars get as many self-buffs and benefits that Nightblades do. Let me know when Templars get great mobility. You let me know when Dragonknights can sustain half as decent as Nightblades, and can have as good burst damage. Better yet. Just let me know when DK's get an execute that's class specific, and reliable mobility that isn't generic as well. Let me know when Wardens can do half of what Nightblades can.

Then show us some PVP video . Teach me how to play Magblade and show me don't tell me . I don't care about PVE as PVE is predictable . Let's see the build that's been eluding all of us .

I'll do what I can, bruh-bruh. I'm currently not home at the moment, but I'll see what I can whip-up when I get there (if I remember and care enough to). Mind you, I am best with a MagDK in PvP. I also haven't set foot in Cyrodiil since Morrowind has gone live (nor battlegrounds interestingly enough), so I'll have to first see if my old MagBlade build for Cyrodiil is viable. Figure out what is what for CP allocation for Cyrodiil, and so on.

Zalicius · June 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Zalicius wrote: »

Ummm, because people in the forums are whiners?

I could agree with this, as I myself was 1 for a very long time. Nowadays I just whine about things that I consider to be big deals (e.g. How weak Wardens are compared to other classes, pets not self-healing between engagements, why it is that people like the travesty that is pineapple pizza, CC-break and immunity being bugged and clunky, how a Tel Galen and a lot of other structures in Morrowind look phallic, etc.).

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I play all five classes and I can tell you still to this day magic Nightblade is the hardest . I can kill players in one rotation with stam DK , I can relax on Sorc and fight groups . Templar is still great with poweroflight and jabs . I screw up one time on Magblade an Bam dead . Do you play Magblade ?

Yes. In fact, my first ever Flawless Conqueror was a MagBlade. With my second being a MagPlar. The third being a MagSorc. On console, my first Flawless Conqueror was a MagSorc. And my second a MagBlade. I also stopped using my MagBlade in PvP a very long time ago and shifted to making a MagDK my main for PvP, due to how cheesy I felt the class and overall playstyle is. Incredible burst damage. Insta-stealth. Ridiculously good mobility to go with that stealth, pets, amazing sustain, an execute, very powerful self/buffs, spectral arrow, the best CC in the game (Mass Hysteria), an incredible low-costing ultimate, etc.

I genuinely don't see how or why people keep claiming MagBlades are so squishy and require only a single mistake to be made for you to die. I find that to be the polar opposite to a class such as DragonKnights. You screw-up ganking or if things don't go your way in a fight with a Nightblade, just hit that cloak and haul cheeks away. The sheer fact you can disengage and engage at will alone gives NB's an advantage over all other classes in PvP. Especially with how strong stealth is as a factor in that atmosphere (PvP). And I think you know that. Lol.

But this isn't about just PvP. This about PvE as well. For example:

Shadzilla wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I've been thinking for a while, and I've been wondering something... Why does so much of the community beg and plead for Nightblade buffs, and claim how weak they are — when the vast majority of classes in PvP are Nightblades? Also, Nightblade self-buffs are among the most strongest buffs in the game. Not to mention that the class has: Mobility, instant stealth, an execute, strong DOT's, strong CC's, a very low-cost ultimate, a strong form of damage mitigation, a strong spammable, and strong sustain...?

Why is this, when things like MagWardens are struggling hard and DK's still lack mobility and an execute. When Templars and Sorcs have caught repeated nerfs back after back, and DK's as well. Mind you that I'm speaking from a PvE and PvP perspective. By the way, the easiest class by far to do VMA on is a Nightblade currently (used to be Sorcerer and or Templar).

So yeah. Can you all explain why there is so much parroting about how weak Nightblades are, when they are clearly in an excellent spot? Otherwise, why would there be so many people using Nightblades and recommending them to other players?

Edit: I just realized what it reminds me of. It reminds me of the "buff D.Va threads" that appear on the Overwatch forums. Lol. D.Va is a hero that is incredibly good as a tank, has pretty solid damage, has infinite ammunition in her mecha, has an ultimate with ridiculous range that can nuke an entire area, does strong sustained damage out of her mecha, can generate ultimate fairly quickly, has a defense matrix that sponges tons of damage for however long it's active (and can absorb ultimates entirely), has insane mobility with very short cooldown, gets arguably the best skins and intros in the game, etc. And yet, players constantly complain and whine how underpowered D.Va is. Meanwhile she's always been among the top 2 best tanks every season, and is pretty much a mandatory for the pro circuit. It also doesn't help her case that most players who use tanks are D.Va mains. Lol.

There is a reason all the #1 world trial scores last patch had either 7 mag sorcs and 1 mag dk, or 6 mag sorcs and 2 mag dks. Nightblades are decent in pvp, considering cloak is broken AF and damage from stealth keeps getting nerfed into the ground. As for PVE nbs have never been the best at dpsing, healing, or tanking. All the top mag sorcs I know were pulling around 57-62k single target dps. Please show me a NB parse that can even remotely compare to that.

Are you really going to sit there and pretend that Nightblades are garbage damage dealers in PvE, just because they aren't pulling Sorc numbers? Really? You're REALLY going to sit there, and act like Nightblades don't have absolutely incredible: Buffs, damage (burst and DOT), self-healing, and sustain? Really? Tell you what. You let me know when Templars get as many self-buffs and benefits that Nightblades do. Let me know when Templars get great mobility. You let me know when Dragonknights can sustain half as decent as Nightblades, and can have as good burst damage. Better yet. Just let me know when DK's get an execute that's class specific, and reliable mobility that isn't generic as well. Let me know when Wardens can do half of what Nightblades can.

Then show us some PVP video . Teach me how to play Magblade and show me don't tell me . I don't care about PVE as PVE is predictable . Let's see the build that's been eluding all of us .

I'll do what I can, bruh-bruh. I'm currently not home at the moment, but I'll see what I can whip-up when I get there (if I remember and care enough to). Mind you, I am best with a MagDK in PvP. I also haven't set foot in Cyrodiil since Morrowind has gone live (nor battlegrounds interestingly enough), so I'll have to first see if my old MagBlade build for Cyrodiil is viable. Figure out what is what for CP allocation for Cyrodiil, and so on.

tbh.. I personally have a difficult time making high DPS characters. Most of mine are built for survival, and are utilitarian. They have great survivability, yet they really don't do great DPS. I can solo pretty much anything as far as PVE goes, but when it comes to vet dungeons, relying on others for healing and taking damage, instead of specifically focusing on DPS, I can't seem to do that.

In other words, I'm a really good player. I'm great at the mechanics of the game, I'm just not so dedicated that I know all the things required to make each type of character.

StormWylf · June 2017

It is the nature of MMO players to believe their chosen class is under performing and all other classes have an advantage.
You could make this same post about any other class and there would be players who will "prove" to you that their class needs a buff. it doesn't matter what MMO, or when it was released.

MaxwellC · June 2017

@Ch4mpTW
Just wanna weigh in on the DK part.

DKs do not need mobility as we are a classed originally formed to hold our ground; Unfortunately currently we must hold our ground on quick sand but that's a long discussion that I don't wanna get in to. Execute wise I mean we all know why we do not have an execute and that is because @Wrobel believes that every DK must somehow hold the line even if they strictly play solo, so their allies can execute the target.

Ch4mpTW · June 2017

StormWylf wrote: »

It is the nature of MMO players to believe their chosen class is under performing and all other classes have an advantage.
You could make this same post about any other class and there would be players who will "prove" to you that their class needs a buff. it doesn't matter what MMO, or when it was released.

So again, Nightblade mains are the D.VA mains of Overwatch. Lol.

Oompuh · June 2017

Raids. Nightblades were absolute trash in group PvE. I have heard/seen Nightblades doing well in Morrowind in Raids and are actually allowed in now. Is it perfect? I dont know, Im sort of detached from the raid scene atm, but they are getting better

Rohamad_Ali · June 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Zalicius wrote: »

Ummm, because people in the forums are whiners?

I could agree with this, as I myself was 1 for a very long time. Nowadays I just whine about things that I consider to be big deals (e.g. How weak Wardens are compared to other classes, pets not self-healing between engagements, why it is that people like the travesty that is pineapple pizza, CC-break and immunity being bugged and clunky, how a Tel Galen and a lot of other structures in Morrowind look phallic, etc.).

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I play all five classes and I can tell you still to this day magic Nightblade is the hardest . I can kill players in one rotation with stam DK , I can relax on Sorc and fight groups . Templar is still great with poweroflight and jabs . I screw up one time on Magblade an Bam dead . Do you play Magblade ?

Yes. In fact, my first ever Flawless Conqueror was a MagBlade. With my second being a MagPlar. The third being a MagSorc. On console, my first Flawless Conqueror was a MagSorc. And my second a MagBlade. I also stopped using my MagBlade in PvP a very long time ago and shifted to making a MagDK my main for PvP, due to how cheesy I felt the class and overall playstyle is. Incredible burst damage. Insta-stealth. Ridiculously good mobility to go with that stealth, pets, amazing sustain, an execute, very powerful self/buffs, spectral arrow, the best CC in the game (Mass Hysteria), an incredible low-costing ultimate, etc.

I genuinely don't see how or why people keep claiming MagBlades are so squishy and require only a single mistake to be made for you to die. I find that to be the polar opposite to a class such as DragonKnights. You screw-up ganking or if things don't go your way in a fight with a Nightblade, just hit that cloak and haul cheeks away. The sheer fact you can disengage and engage at will alone gives NB's an advantage over all other classes in PvP. Especially with how strong stealth is as a factor in that atmosphere (PvP). And I think you know that. Lol.

But this isn't about just PvP. This about PvE as well. For example:

Shadzilla wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I've been thinking for a while, and I've been wondering something... Why does so much of the community beg and plead for Nightblade buffs, and claim how weak they are — when the vast majority of classes in PvP are Nightblades? Also, Nightblade self-buffs are among the most strongest buffs in the game. Not to mention that the class has: Mobility, instant stealth, an execute, strong DOT's, strong CC's, a very low-cost ultimate, a strong form of damage mitigation, a strong spammable, and strong sustain...?

Why is this, when things like MagWardens are struggling hard and DK's still lack mobility and an execute. When Templars and Sorcs have caught repeated nerfs back after back, and DK's as well. Mind you that I'm speaking from a PvE and PvP perspective. By the way, the easiest class by far to do VMA on is a Nightblade currently (used to be Sorcerer and or Templar).

So yeah. Can you all explain why there is so much parroting about how weak Nightblades are, when they are clearly in an excellent spot? Otherwise, why would there be so many people using Nightblades and recommending them to other players?

Edit: I just realized what it reminds me of. It reminds me of the "buff D.Va threads" that appear on the Overwatch forums. Lol. D.Va is a hero that is incredibly good as a tank, has pretty solid damage, has infinite ammunition in her mecha, has an ultimate with ridiculous range that can nuke an entire area, does strong sustained damage out of her mecha, can generate ultimate fairly quickly, has a defense matrix that sponges tons of damage for however long it's active (and can absorb ultimates entirely), has insane mobility with very short cooldown, gets arguably the best skins and intros in the game, etc. And yet, players constantly complain and whine how underpowered D.Va is. Meanwhile she's always been among the top 2 best tanks every season, and is pretty much a mandatory for the pro circuit. It also doesn't help her case that most players who use tanks are D.Va mains. Lol.

There is a reason all the #1 world trial scores last patch had either 7 mag sorcs and 1 mag dk, or 6 mag sorcs and 2 mag dks. Nightblades are decent in pvp, considering cloak is broken AF and damage from stealth keeps getting nerfed into the ground. As for PVE nbs have never been the best at dpsing, healing, or tanking. All the top mag sorcs I know were pulling around 57-62k single target dps. Please show me a NB parse that can even remotely compare to that.

Are you really going to sit there and pretend that Nightblades are garbage damage dealers in PvE, just because they aren't pulling Sorc numbers? Really? You're REALLY going to sit there, and act like Nightblades don't have absolutely incredible: Buffs, damage (burst and DOT), self-healing, and sustain? Really? Tell you what. You let me know when Templars get as many self-buffs and benefits that Nightblades do. Let me know when Templars get great mobility. You let me know when Dragonknights can sustain half as decent as Nightblades, and can have as good burst damage. Better yet. Just let me know when DK's get an execute that's class specific, and reliable mobility that isn't generic as well. Let me know when Wardens can do half of what Nightblades can.

Then show us some PVP video . Teach me how to play Magblade and show me don't tell me . I don't care about PVE as PVE is predictable . Let's see the build that's been eluding all of us .

I'll do what I can, bruh-bruh. I'm currently not home at the moment, but I'll see what I can whip-up when I get there (if I remember and care enough to). Mind you, I am best with a MagDK in PvP. I also haven't set foot in Cyrodiil since Morrowind has gone live (nor battlegrounds interestingly enough), so I'll have to first see if my old MagBlade build for Cyrodiil is viable. Figure out what is what for CP allocation for Cyrodiil, and so on.

Wait , you haven't stepped for in Cyrodiil since Marrowind went live or a battlefield and your commenting on Magblades being in a good place ?

lol BRUH ! Cmon ! Ya MagNB was in a good place LAST PATCH .

Not the same this patch , not even close .

Ch4mpTW · June 2017

Oompuh wrote: »

Raids. Nightblades were absolute trash in group PvE. I have heard/seen Nightblades doing well in Morrowind in Raids and are actually allowed in now. Is it perfect? I dont know, Im sort of detached from the raid scene atm, but they are getting better

I can't say that I've ever seen or heard of someone being excluded from running trials from their choice of class. I've heard of (and personally experienced) people being excluded for not talking on mic, refusing to DPS test, not knowing this and that person, being apart of this and that "elite" guild previously or at the time they wanted to play, etc. But never have I heard of someone being denied because they were a Nightblade.

A buddy of mine used to tank VMoL with a Nightblade, although I don't think he plays anymore. And he was incredibly good at it. I also knew many amazing Nightblade healers in the past. And even though a Templar would've been much better of course, the NB healing was still healing everyone in the trial fantastically. All the while still debuffing and all that jazz.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · June 2017

Oompuh wrote: »

Raids. Nightblades were absolute trash in group PvE. I have heard/seen Nightblades doing well in Morrowind in Raids and are actually allowed in now. Is it perfect? I dont know, Im sort of detached from the raid scene atm, but they are getting better

No no, didn't you hear? He has a friend who owns in PVE. Incredible damage. And is a monster in pvp. So it is all sorted.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2017

I can still kill inexperienced players on Magblade , no problem . If I go against any one that knows DK well like @ishmmael , I get slammed if I don't back off . The best way to test how classes are doing is by going to the place the best players camp out and fight them . You quickly see the weakness of each class , make adjustments , come back and repeat until you get a some what decent build . I see videos of @NightbladeMechanics doing well but then again I don't see him fighting other top players in other classes in videos yet . I take PVP very serious and don't go around saying everything's broke until I've exhausted every last resource . I don't make threads asking for buffs until I am certain something is definitely under performing . I read everyone's write ups and test them out after I've ran out of my own ideas . If you are a top player then you most certainly must respect the process of at least testing in current conditions before calling anyone out . I really want to see a video of you showing off Magblade in Marrowind now because no one else is . An by showing off I mean fighting cp 630 experienced players not Ult bombing pugs . No pocket healers just straight up mono e mono vs other great players .

Oompuh · June 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

Raids. Nightblades were absolute trash in group PvE. I have heard/seen Nightblades doing well in Morrowind in Raids and are actually allowed in now. Is it perfect? I dont know, Im sort of detached from the raid scene atm, but they are getting better

I can't say that I've ever seen or heard of someone being excluded from running trials from their choice of class. I've heard of (and personally experienced) people being excluded for not talking on mic, refusing to DPS test, not knowing this and that person, being apart of this and that "elite" guild previously or at the time they wanted to play, etc. But never have I heard of someone being denied because they were a Nightblade.

A buddy of mine used to tank VMoL with a Nightblade, although I don't think he plays anymore. And he was incredibly good at it. I also knew many amazing Nightblade healers in the past. And even though a Templar would've been much better of course, the NB healing was still healing everyone in the trial fantastically. All the while still debuffing and all that jazz.

Man, look at all those nightblades.
Oh wait, its 7 sorc dps

(This is pre-Morrowind below)
Nightblade had worse ranged DPS than Sorc
Nightblade has worse single target than DK
Nightblade had worse cleave than Templar

They had no place. Now, it is better. I see a lot of nightblades in raids, this was not the case a month ago.

NightbladeMechanics · June 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I can still kill inexperienced players on Magblade , no problem . If I go against any one that knows DK well like @ishmmael , I get slammed if I don't back off . The best way to test how classes are doing is by going to the place the best players camp out and fight them . You quickly see the weakness of each class , make adjustments , come back and repeat until you get a some what decent build . I see videos of @NightbladeMechanics doing well but then again I don't see him fighting other top players in other classes in videos yet . I take PVP very serious and don't go around saying everything's broke until I've exhausted every last resource . I don't make threads asking for buffs until I am certain something is definitely under performing . I read everyone's write ups and test them out after I've ran out of my own ideas . If you are a top player then you most certainly must respect the process of at least testing in current conditions before calling anyone out . I really want to see a video of you showing off Magblade in Marrowind now because no one else is . An by showing off I mean fighting cp 630 experienced players not Ult bombing pugs . No pocket healers just straight up mono e mono vs other great players .

None of the top players on the NA server post dueling videos. It's considered crude manners here. I do just fine against them all, though.

Mageblade tends to stalemate a couple matchups still, but I consider it vastly improved since last patch. Nightblades of all kinds love light and medium armor metas.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I can still kill inexperienced players on Magblade , no problem . If I go against any one that knows DK well like @ishmmael , I get slammed if I don't back off . The best way to test how classes are doing is by going to the place the best players camp out and fight them . You quickly see the weakness of each class , make adjustments , come back and repeat until you get a some what decent build . I see videos of @NightbladeMechanics doing well but then again I don't see him fighting other top players in other classes in videos yet . I take PVP very serious and don't go around saying everything's broke until I've exhausted every last resource . I don't make threads asking for buffs until I am certain something is definitely under performing . I read everyone's write ups and test them out after I've ran out of my own ideas . If you are a top player then you most certainly must respect the process of at least testing in current conditions before calling anyone out . I really want to see a video of you showing off Magblade in Marrowind now because no one else is . An by showing off I mean fighting cp 630 experienced players not Ult bombing pugs . No pocket healers just straight up mono e mono vs other great players .

None of the top players on the NA server post dueling videos. It's considered crude manners here. I do just fine against them all, though. Mageblade tends to stalemate a couple matchups still, but I consider it vastly improved since last patch. Nightblades of all kinds love light and medium armor metas.

I don't understand your guy's ethics here . It's ok to post video fighting a bunch of people you don't know but Duelers go to Reapers March and duel in front of places with the most people and are camera shy in front of people they do know ? That seems opposition to good manners . Besides I've seen top players post dueling videos before .

Anyways a stalemate sounds the same as getting out of the fight cause someone can't be beat which makes sense . I run into that a lot .