More content for tanks?

idk · June 2017

Edit: there is not an option in the poll that is appropriate to use since there is content requiring more than one tank already.

The last 3 trials require 2 tanks on vet. HoF requires two tanks on normal from what I see. So they are creating new content requiring tanks.

Heck. both vMoL and vHoF have tank swaps. vHoF is good for tanking.

Basically, I do not see an issue with how the game is progressing concerning tanks.

It is also fairly normal for GF to wait for tanks or healers considering fewer dps are needed for 4 man groups. Fairly normal.

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

All harder content requires good tanks. All trials except vAA and vHRC (not HM) require two tanks. vMoL is a significant tanking challenge and vHoF is all about tanks and healers. DSA is a great example of a 4-man tanking challenge.

I really don't see your problem. Unless you want a 4-man with 2 tanks (what a painful slogfest would that be...)

They do not require two full time tanks . Your comments are slightly off. Two tanks are very situational and arguably much of the content on the whole from 4 mans to normal trials dont even needs a tank

Let's not talk about normal here. It's a well known fact that you can pass normal maelstrom with level 3 nightblade with 1 skill on his bar. Normal trials are a faceroll and are supposed to be a faceroll for all the RP guys to enjoy the story.

Two tanks are required for:
vAA: Last boss HM
vHRC: Last boss HM
vSO: Mantikora (black hole mini-boss one-shots DDs), Ozarra (one of the most difficult jobs is for an off-tank), The Serpent including HM (to manage lamias and mantikoras)
vMoL: Zhaj'hassa (if the main tank gets cursed), Twins (bosses have to be tanked separately), Rakkhat (to manage the hulk who wil otherwise one shot main tank)
vHoF: actually requires two tanks. Not main and off. Just plain two tanks.

4-mans can be done without a tank but having a tank makes them so much smoother. Chaining the adds together does wonders on trash pulls.

Reguardless this game is probably the most unimaginative and dps dependent game designed. Ive not done the last trial i have completely given up hope on eso did most of the garbage single player story of morrowind and moved on. Ive tanked just about everything else in game . Though i dont have full complete on vr sanctum or ful vr mol. Every fourman i have all achieves .this game is by far requires very little skill as a tank. Now im not talking about vr trials mind you those require skill and knowledge, but jsut about everything else requires nothing but some utility bash and block.CC , true utility and debuffing do not exist in this game and the rest of combat mechanics are ignored if dps is high enough . Pulling adds in is god damn easy . Early generation MMo tanking required pull knowledge communiction with crowd control and assisting with damage mitigation . None of that exists here just stack and burn ignore mechanics for 90% of the content

I would have to ask why someone with this opinion keeps on playing and question how far they have pushed themselves tanking vMoL.

The new trial is probably the most challenging for a tank to date. Certainly OT on vMoL is the most challenging of the previous trials and my guess, based on your post, is that may not have attempted HM Rakkhat. Further, Stack and burn has for been eliminated in man fights.

Fondation atro must separate.
Ra Kotu cannot stack due to the whirlwinds (loose stack permited)
Warrior cannot stack during burn phase. not to mention the movement required for HM.
Manti - most groups cannot burn him down without dealing with the bottom boss dp so stacking is bad.
Ozara - stacking is not such a great idea due to the aoe damage from pins.
Forgotten Kagit cannot stack due to multiple mechanics
Twins - often having to move.
Rakhat - HM requires certain dps to not be near anyone else.

Twins and Rakkhat, especially Rakkhat HM put more challenge on tanking than the previous trials. On Rakkhat, if tank cannot place the boss properly they increase the challenge for Melee dps. As mentioned, OT has much more to do in HM and probably more challenging. In either mode OT still needs to placed the hulk properly so it takes damage. Twins also have placement requirements.

That is just the existing ones and I may have missed something. The more recent fights also require a lot of movement, not finding a spot and staying there.

Throughout vHoF placement and movement is required. In many fights communication is required. Placement is paramount. Movement is a constant. Damage mitigation provided to the group helps.

Franieck · June 2017

No, there should not be content that more than 1 tank is required

makerofthings wrote: »

I tank for my Band of brothers however I am reluctant to tank for pugs because of the negativity I read on the forums. If you are not BIS, tank or not you get flamed. Whatever happened to having fun and learning on the job.

I wish I had ran pugs with more tanks like you. Seriously, my worst experiences in pugs were with tanks. I'm not even talking about the skills, but their demeanor mostly. They start complaining, blaming the DD's or the healers and then they simply quit (after the first wipe!!). And sure, sometimes they really are to blame, but I feel odd that so many tanks (at least many of those I ran dungeons with) are so impatient, rude an often just plain bad. I can imagine it is an ungrateful role to play... I mean, you are literally dependent on the whole group... Still, I wish they would be more easy going like you. Congrats, mate!

Phica_Lovic · June 2017

Liofa wrote: »

There is content that require more than 1 tank . Are you sure you didn't end up in a different forum by mistake ?

There is no other option. I agree with this guy ^.

Betsararie · June 2017

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

The problem with tanking in this game is many bosses don't respond to taunt, and have attacks that ignore taunt. Makes it difficult for the tank to hold aggro for long periods of time.

idk · June 2017

Blanco wrote: »

The problem with tanking in this game is many bosses don't respond to taunt, and have attacks that ignore taunt. Makes it difficult for the tank to hold aggro for long periods of time.

In trials all bosses respond to taunt. Having attacks that ignore taunt is a different thing and is common in MMOs. It is called mechanics and requires players to do something other than just stand there.

Lavennin · June 2017

makerofthings wrote: »

I tank for my Band of brothers however I am reluctant to tank for pugs because of the negativity I read on the forums. If you are not BIS, tank or not you get flamed. Whatever happened to having fun and learning on the job.

That could happen but is very very very rare. I PuG a lot and have yet to have that happened to me. Sometimes they rushed through things, sometimes they were too quiet, but the majority were pretty decent people.

I've had one tank quit due to his non-meta build, but it wasn't because others said anything, but that he died a lot and lost the drive.

Wifeaggro13 · June 2017

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Edit: there is not an option in the poll that is appropriate to use since there is content requiring more than one tank already.

The last 3 trials require 2 tanks on vet. HoF requires two tanks on normal from what I see. So they are creating new content requiring tanks.

Heck. both vMoL and vHoF have tank swaps. vHoF is good for tanking.

Basically, I do not see an issue with how the game is progressing concerning tanks.

It is also fairly normal for GF to wait for tanks or healers considering fewer dps are needed for 4 man groups. Fairly normal.

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

All harder content requires good tanks. All trials except vAA and vHRC (not HM) require two tanks. vMoL is a significant tanking challenge and vHoF is all about tanks and healers. DSA is a great example of a 4-man tanking challenge.

I really don't see your problem. Unless you want a 4-man with 2 tanks (what a painful slogfest would that be...)

They do not require two full time tanks . Your comments are slightly off. Two tanks are very situational and arguably much of the content on the whole from 4 mans to normal trials dont even needs a tank

Let's not talk about normal here. It's a well known fact that you can pass normal maelstrom with level 3 nightblade with 1 skill on his bar. Normal trials are a faceroll and are supposed to be a faceroll for all the RP guys to enjoy the story.

Two tanks are required for:
vAA: Last boss HM
vHRC: Last boss HM
vSO: Mantikora (black hole mini-boss one-shots DDs), Ozarra (one of the most difficult jobs is for an off-tank), The Serpent including HM (to manage lamias and mantikoras)
vMoL: Zhaj'hassa (if the main tank gets cursed), Twins (bosses have to be tanked separately), Rakkhat (to manage the hulk who wil otherwise one shot main tank)
vHoF: actually requires two tanks. Not main and off. Just plain two tanks.

4-mans can be done without a tank but having a tank makes them so much smoother. Chaining the adds together does wonders on trash pulls.

Reguardless this game is probably the most unimaginative and dps dependent game designed. Ive not done the last trial i have completely given up hope on eso did most of the garbage single player story of morrowind and moved on. Ive tanked just about everything else in game . Though i dont have full complete on vr sanctum or ful vr mol. Every fourman i have all achieves .this game is by far requires very little skill as a tank. Now im not talking about vr trials mind you those require skill and knowledge, but jsut about everything else requires nothing but some utility bash and block.CC , true utility and debuffing do not exist in this game and the rest of combat mechanics are ignored if dps is high enough . Pulling adds in is god damn easy . Early generation MMo tanking required pull knowledge communiction with crowd control and assisting with damage mitigation . None of that exists here just stack and burn ignore mechanics for 90% of the content

I would have to ask why someone with this opinion keeps on playing and question how far they have pushed themselves tanking vMoL.

The new trial is probably the most challenging for a tank to date. Certainly OT on vMoL is the most challenging of the previous trials and my guess, based on your post, is that may not have attempted HM Rakkhat. Further, Stack and burn has for been eliminated in man fights.

Fondation atro must separate.
Ra Kotu cannot stack due to the whirlwinds (loose stack permited)
Warrior cannot stack during burn phase. not to mention the movement required for HM.
Manti - most groups cannot burn him down without dealing with the bottom boss dp so stacking is bad.
Ozara - stacking is not such a great idea due to the aoe damage from pins.
Forgotten Kagit cannot stack due to multiple mechanics
Twins - often having to move.
Rakhat - HM requires certain dps to not be near anyone else.

Twins and Rakkhat, especially Rakkhat HM put more challenge on tanking than the previous trials. On Rakkhat, if tank cannot place the boss properly they increase the challenge for Melee dps. As mentioned, OT has much more to do in HM and probably more challenging. In either mode OT still needs to placed the hulk properly so it takes damage. Twins also have placement requirements.

That is just the existing ones and I may have missed something. The more recent fights also require a lot of movement, not finding a spot and staying there.

Throughout vHoF placement and movement is required. In many fights communication is required. Placement is paramount. Movement is a constant. Damage mitigation provided to the group helps.

Did you ever read what i said jesus f ing christ. Trials are only a smidgen of content you find it acceptable these vr dungeons can be solod by a dps? That you dont even need one to complete all the content aside from trials ......I said the vr trials require skill as a tank . Never mind your to interested in defending this game and its short comings rather then talk about them so they will be corrected. Wouldnt you prefer we had some other content that required the same level cordination and skill the trials have . This game is beyond bland and dumbed down now. Aside from trials .amd give it a couple weeks post sustain patch . Attorney at lawl was soloing the damn dungeons when the game was far far harder and we had no cp and soft caps. It wont take long for someone to figure it out.

SublimeSparo · June 2017

Maybe if tanks didn't get nerfed almost every single patch they'd be more fun to play

Sjizzle · June 2017

give us any good reason to tank with pugs and I will tank with pugs ......

I will give u some reason to not tank with pugs
- when looking for a x dungeon HM and u got inv by a player who has no clue about that dungeon and ask u for achiv. what she don't have. Or even worse it's below CP 50 ( I am not CP looking player.... Skill > CP but if she had a minim of 160 CP and clue abut the dungeon would be no problem from my side to tank it )
- a cp 700+ inv u in a group and then kick u cos u have only 530 CP ( I tanket all vet dungeons in HM and all vet trials ) don't even ask u if u did or nop that dungeon simple kick !
- also dps random pull useless trash which one can be skipped and when die blame tank and healer
- they speak other language then English in group chat ( English is not my prime language but I speak that in group / zone chat and btw sorry if I butcher the English gramma and language )
- going with LFG tool is even wors ( sometimes u can find really nice good groups with LFG and make friends there that happened to me many time )
- also some players ask stupid amount of CP for a dungeon 500+ as I have said above skill > CP ....I saw tons 630+ crap players who had no clue about dungeons and how this game work but they ask for CP to do a dungeon !
- or when an item drop what u need and u ask if u can have it and they say F** off or ask u huge amount of gold 500k +

DaveMoeDee · June 2017

casparian wrote: »

I agree that there need to be more tanks in the game. But I'm not sure that what's needed is content that simply requires more tanks. That seems like too brute a solution. Rather, what we need is content that is more interesting for tanks, to motivate more people to play them.

My first character was a tank and I really enjoyed tanking at launch. After a while though I found that I was specing my Imperial DK more and more for DPS because I wasn't doing much group content and tanking solo is pointless and slow.

max_only · June 2017

Blanco wrote: »

The problem with tanking in this game is many bosses don't respond to taunt, and have attacks that ignore taunt. Makes it difficult for the tank to hold aggro for long periods of time.

That annoys me. They really made tanking active in this game, almost too active lol

I love to tank. I especially love to tank using my creativity not a cookie cutter build. So I have a magNB Bosmer tank. No damage, all sponge - just be sapping up that essence yum lol. As long as we pass, I feel I'm successful. But that's not good enough for some people.

Just from reading the forums it makes me scared to pug. People who act like they were born knowing dungeons, who were born playing the game, people who have no patience for anyone because they've done it 100s of times.... those people are the ones who need to leave the group finder imo.

I never wonder why they don't have an established list of "elite" friends to run with when they come on here with that attitude.

I wouldn't mind having more rewards for tanking though. Maybe the "blocking in dungeons" achievement should count for something more. If it already counts toward undaunted maybe they should double it's undaunted rep reward.

slumber_sandb16_ESO · June 2017

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

I just wish certain solo content *cough* vMSA *cough* could be doable with a tank..

ccfeeling · June 2017

No, there should not be content that more than 1 tank is required

More content for sorc , because they are major in the game.
They are all around

Tecorsuh · June 2017

No, there should not be content that more than 1 tank is required

There is a lot of content that requires knowledgeable tanks: All of the DLC Dungeons, Most of the '2' dungeons, some of the other dungeons, and all Trials. HM Trials especially need multiple tanks.(all of this on vet of course, normal doesn't need a tank)

I can't see having a 4 man dungeon with multiple tanks though. If it needs two tanks, which role are you going to cut out? Healer or DPS? What if you are pugging the 1 DPS slot, and you get a terrible DPS? The dungeon just went from hard to impossible. What if the healer is crap, or refuses to heal? The dungeon just went from hard straight to breaking the group.

Maybe if they made 6 man dungeons? Could get away with having 2 tanks, 2-3 dps, and 1-2 healers. You know that groups would be running 1 Tank, 4 DPS, 1 Healer. Maybe just 6 DPS, one being more tanky and one being more heally.

Of course, Trials require 2 tanks(Or main-tank/off-tank) if you plan on running vet or hard mode. HoF needs 2 tanks for most encounters, even on normal.

If you're having trouble finding content for (multiple) tanks, you're not looking hard enough. Could they add more? Sure, it's always welcome, but they did JUST add a trial that requires 2 tanks. Most people are having a lot of difficulty clearing HoF, we don't need a new trial at this time.

Also, touching on the lack of tanks in the group-finder: Tanking is a specialized role that not many people like doing. Those who do, don't often like running with random people. Hence the shortage of tanks in the group finder. Having more content for tanks isn't going to change that.(Trials aren't in the group finder anyways)

Healers are also a specialized role, people just view healing as an easier role; hence there being more healers than tanks.

DPS is viewed as the easiest role, hence why there are a bajillion DPS for every one tank in the queue.

[off-topic]

max_only wrote: »

Just from reading the forums it makes me scared to pug. People who act like they were born knowing dungeons, who were born playing the game, people who have no patience for anyone because they've done it 100s of times.... those people are the ones who need to leave the group finder imo.

I find that most of the time people will only really share the worst of the worst stories that happen to them. What is the least interesting story? The one where the party is struggling but despite all odds they complete the dungeon; the one where there is a massive jerk in the group, and even despite them the party succeeds(or massively fails the dungeon); or the one where everything went perfectly, there was no conflict in the group, and everyone lived happily ever after?

With my experiences, probably only ~5%(1 in 20) of runs are the bad runs you hear about on the forums. Most are just "meh" runs. By "meh" I mean uneventful.(I could be just be lucky when it comes to the group finder)

I've been running random normals around 5 days a week on 4 characters(2 tanks, a healer, and a dps) for the past 2~3 months as well as running vet pledges through the dungeon finder when I have time. I very rarely have had a group that I would consider a completely terrible group. Sure, I've shared stories where I've had someone be completely terrible at their role, but it doesn't undermine the experience. For context, I was cp545 when I started running normal randoms regularly, I am now cp610.

[/offtopic]

CaptainBeerDude · June 2017

Tecorsuh wrote: »

There is a lot of content that requires knowledgeable tanks: All of the DLC Dungeons, Most of the '2' dungeons, some of the other dungeons, and all Trials. HM Trials especially need multiple tanks.(all of this on vet of course, normal doesn't need a tank)

I can't see having a 4 man dungeon with multiple tanks though. If it needs two tanks, which role are you going to cut out? Healer or DPS? What if you are pugging the 1 DPS slot, and you get a terrible DPS? The dungeon just went from hard to impossible. What if the healer is crap, or refuses to heal? The dungeon just went from hard straight to breaking the group.

Maybe if they made 6 man dungeons? Could get away with having 2 tanks, 2-3 dps, and 1-2 healers. You know that groups would be running 1 Tank, 4 DPS, 1 Healer. Maybe just 6 DPS, one being more tanky and one being more heally.

Of course, Trials require 2 tanks(Or main-tank/off-tank) if you plan on running vet or hard mode. HoF needs 2 tanks for most encounters, even on normal.

If you're having trouble finding content for (multiple) tanks, you're not looking hard enough. Could they add more? Sure, it's always welcome, but they did JUST add a trial that requires 2 tanks. Most people are having a lot of difficulty clearing HoF, we don't need a new trial at this time.

Also, touching on the lack of tanks in the group-finder: Tanking is a specialized role that not many people like doing. Those who do, don't often like running with random people. Hence the shortage of tanks in the group finder. Having more content for tanks isn't going to change that.(Trials aren't in the group finder anyways)

Just roll a warden and tank/heal those bad boys.

Coilbox · June 2017

Eshja wrote: »

I'd like something like vMSA but for tank and healers, that would be awesome .

Yeah... taunt and heal a mobb until it gets bored to death!

CaptainBeerDude · June 2017

Coilbox wrote: »

Eshja wrote: »

I'd like something like vMSA but for tank and healers, that would be awesome .

Yeah... taunt and heal a mobb until it gets bored to death!

Over taunting could destroy their will to continue and they just leave the arena.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2017

Tanks almost always get the short end of the stick in solo endeavors in MMO's. This is why they are a rare and special breed. To Tanks!

Merlin13KAGL · June 2017

I'd like to see a role specific gauntlet, of sorts.

Could be different rounds where you could improve/hone/test your role and build, providing challenges that were not always just damage focused.

Some could involve stealth, speed, agility (active traps, please), timing, and other aspects of the game to spice things up a bit. I'm sure they could work in versions of this for anywhere from 1-4 people, providing obstacles that actually make use of class/role specific abilities to overcome certain parts.

They've managed some interesting mechanics in certain parts of the game, but most of it is very repetitive, having been cut-and-pasted from other parts. It's time for them to add more.

Flameheart · June 2017

josiahva wrote: »

As a tank, I would be happy if Vet dungeons required a tank. Right now the only ones that do are the DLC dungeons...which is why I don't even bother with the lesser dungeons much anymore. Even vWGT can be done without a tank these days. As for trials, I think 2 tanks should be required. The new trial does a good job of that, but aside from MoL the other ones do not. In the end though I think its more important for tanks to be needed for vet dungeons. I mean...vet darkshade? a tank actually hurts the group there which is ridiculous. What I would like to see though is a new solo arena focuse on tanks and healers. vMA is great, but its a DPS only arena....that needs to be balanced badly. Surely you can design a solo arena that tests pure survival.

I have to agree only partially. You are able to do most vet dungeons without a tank if

- you have a grood group where everybody knows what movement, blocking and dps is
- you take into account, that you won't be that much faster because of running around for not piled up trash, blocking, boss movement out of ground dots, deaths and rezzes.

My personal experience - as a tank (I have a full legandary tank equip with all my magicka chars and I often use them as tanks for fast queuing) and healer and DD - in many, many random vet groups is, that up to 70% of all people I met there aren't able to play a 3 DD / 1 healer group without

-major dps loss
-several deaths and even wipes
-no time loss at all

I have to admit, that many tanks I watch perform in 4-man-vet instances have no clue to play a tank either. This ranges from DKs not using chains, tanks who just taunt one add or onshot-tanks in the case of one major boss AoE. In addition most of them don't understand that their main task is to pile up mobs (for AoE), give debuffs and buffs (shields, warhorn etc.) and build to have the ressources for that. At last I still watch a lot of healers who think spamming Mutagen is the only job that needs to be done. We live in the era post-sustain-nerf and every healer is able to use warhorn, eledrain and bubbles (even for stamina builds now), but it seems to me as if there is even less support now as prepatch.

If all in a group do their job, a trinity group works relaxing and smooth and is not a jota slower as an average 3 DD / 1 healer group.

Wifeaggro13 · June 2017

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

I agree that there need to be more tanks in the game. But I'm not sure that what's needed is content that simply requires more tanks. That seems like too brute a solution. Rather, what we need is content that is more interesting for tanks, to motivate more people to play them.

My first character was a tank and I really enjoyed tanking at launch. After a while though I found that I was specing my Imperial DK more and more for DPS because I wasn't doing much group content and tanking solo is pointless and slow.

thats a major issue . at launch tanks were needed for dungeons for sure, that is simply not the case anymore, . there are design flaws in this game that ZOS should be called to the carpet on. but when you try to point it out the ZOSbies come to feed on the post.

Wifeaggro13 · June 2017

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

max_only wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

The problem with tanking in this game is many bosses don't respond to taunt, and have attacks that ignore taunt. Makes it difficult for the tank to hold aggro for long periods of time.

That annoys me. They really made tanking active in this game, almost too active lol

I love to tank. I especially love to tank using my creativity not a cookie cutter build. So I have a magNB Bosmer tank. No damage, all sponge - just be sapping up that essence yum lol. As long as we pass, I feel I'm successful. But that's not good enough for some people.

Just from reading the forums it makes me scared to pug. People who act like they were born knowing dungeons, who were born playing the game, people who have no patience for anyone because they've done it 100s of times.... those people are the ones who need to leave the group finder imo.

I never wonder why they don't have an established list of "elite" friends to run with when they come on here with that attitude.

I wouldn't mind having more rewards for tanking though. Maybe the "blocking in dungeons" achievement should count for something more. If it already counts toward undaunted maybe they should double it's undaunted rep reward.

Its easier for Devs to create encounters that just require DPS and moving. once Konkell and Paul Sage left, the game really embraced the DPS concept and the single player onlnine concept wholeheartedly . at launch forms of CC were required in Vet dungeons, the utility was really never designed because those effects were secondary attached to a dps ability, ESO was a decent MMO then. I had two tanks one DK and one Sorc. People would get mad at me when i posted in these forums the mage had better resistances while retaining better utility in early ESO and would say they could not tank VR content. at the time the hardest VR 4 man boss was shada. sorc tank for the win.

idk · June 2017

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Edit: there is not an option in the poll that is appropriate to use since there is content requiring more than one tank already.

The last 3 trials require 2 tanks on vet. HoF requires two tanks on normal from what I see. So they are creating new content requiring tanks.

Heck. both vMoL and vHoF have tank swaps. vHoF is good for tanking.

Basically, I do not see an issue with how the game is progressing concerning tanks.

It is also fairly normal for GF to wait for tanks or healers considering fewer dps are needed for 4 man groups. Fairly normal.

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

All harder content requires good tanks. All trials except vAA and vHRC (not HM) require two tanks. vMoL is a significant tanking challenge and vHoF is all about tanks and healers. DSA is a great example of a 4-man tanking challenge.

I really don't see your problem. Unless you want a 4-man with 2 tanks (what a painful slogfest would that be...)

They do not require two full time tanks . Your comments are slightly off. Two tanks are very situational and arguably much of the content on the whole from 4 mans to normal trials dont even needs a tank

Let's not talk about normal here. It's a well known fact that you can pass normal maelstrom with level 3 nightblade with 1 skill on his bar. Normal trials are a faceroll and are supposed to be a faceroll for all the RP guys to enjoy the story.

Two tanks are required for:
vAA: Last boss HM
vHRC: Last boss HM
vSO: Mantikora (black hole mini-boss one-shots DDs), Ozarra (one of the most difficult jobs is for an off-tank), The Serpent including HM (to manage lamias and mantikoras)
vMoL: Zhaj'hassa (if the main tank gets cursed), Twins (bosses have to be tanked separately), Rakkhat (to manage the hulk who wil otherwise one shot main tank)
vHoF: actually requires two tanks. Not main and off. Just plain two tanks.

4-mans can be done without a tank but having a tank makes them so much smoother. Chaining the adds together does wonders on trash pulls.

Reguardless this game is probably the most unimaginative and dps dependent game designed. Ive not done the last trial i have completely given up hope on eso did most of the garbage single player story of morrowind and moved on. Ive tanked just about everything else in game . Though i dont have full complete on vr sanctum or ful vr mol. Every fourman i have all achieves .this game is by far requires very little skill as a tank. Now im not talking about vr trials mind you those require skill and knowledge, but jsut about everything else requires nothing but some utility bash and block.CC , true utility and debuffing do not exist in this game and the rest of combat mechanics are ignored if dps is high enough . Pulling adds in is god damn easy . Early generation MMo tanking required pull knowledge communiction with crowd control and assisting with damage mitigation . None of that exists here just stack and burn ignore mechanics for 90% of the content

I would have to ask why someone with this opinion keeps on playing and question how far they have pushed themselves tanking vMoL.

The new trial is probably the most challenging for a tank to date. Certainly OT on vMoL is the most challenging of the previous trials and my guess, based on your post, is that may not have attempted HM Rakkhat. Further, Stack and burn has for been eliminated in man fights.

Fondation atro must separate.
Ra Kotu cannot stack due to the whirlwinds (loose stack permited)
Warrior cannot stack during burn phase. not to mention the movement required for HM.
Manti - most groups cannot burn him down without dealing with the bottom boss dp so stacking is bad.
Ozara - stacking is not such a great idea due to the aoe damage from pins.
Forgotten Kagit cannot stack due to multiple mechanics
Twins - often having to move.
Rakhat - HM requires certain dps to not be near anyone else.

Twins and Rakkhat, especially Rakkhat HM put more challenge on tanking than the previous trials. On Rakkhat, if tank cannot place the boss properly they increase the challenge for Melee dps. As mentioned, OT has much more to do in HM and probably more challenging. In either mode OT still needs to placed the hulk properly so it takes damage. Twins also have placement requirements.

That is just the existing ones and I may have missed something. The more recent fights also require a lot of movement, not finding a spot and staying there.

Throughout vHoF placement and movement is required. In many fights communication is required. Placement is paramount. Movement is a constant. Damage mitigation provided to the group helps.

Did you ever read what i said jesus f ing christ. Trials are only a smidgen of content you find it acceptable these vr dungeons can be solod by a dps? That you dont even need one to complete all the content aside from trials ......I said the vr trials require skill as a tank . Never mind your to interested in defending this game and its short comings rather then talk about them so they will be corrected. Wouldnt you prefer we had some other content that required the same level cordination and skill the trials have . This game is beyond bland and dumbed down now. Aside from trials .amd give it a couple weeks post sustain patch . Attorney at lawl was soloing the damn dungeons when the game was far far harder and we had no cp and soft caps. It wont take long for someone to figure it out.

Trials are the premier end game PvE content. 4 man dungeons are intended and customarily much lighter than trials.

Teridaxus · June 2017

Hell, i would be already happy if they remove that 12 person loot cap on certain things.
Tanking molag bal and getting nothing is really frustating.

AhPook_Is_Here · June 2017

I get the OP's point that there are different ratios of DPS to support classes in the game's various group content. But I think, ideally anyway, you are supposed to be flexible, even built as a tank, you should be able to put dps gear on and still land numbers maybe 20% below your trial group's top dps. If you are in an off-tank role in a trial and no off-tank is needed for a segment of a trial you should be in dps gear rather than running along with your sword and board waiting for a chance to taunt again. Other mmos like wow aren't as flexible in roles as this game is, and still others are more flexible, like Rift where you can change up everything on the fly, anywhere with no cost.

I don't think they are ever going to make content just for tanks, as I don't think zos thinks of players in terms of roles but in terms of classes. Any class is a tank or a dps or a healer depending on gear and active skills and cp allocation.

paulsimonps · June 2017

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

I tank, its what I do, I play tanks and I teach tanks and I theory craft tanks. Even in situations when people tell me its better if I swapped to DPS to not have tank, I TANK. I know that the Trials that have been made and are being made are geared towards 2 tanks, and I love it, I want them to never stop that line of thinking. Its fun.

But like many people have said Trials are only a part of the game, even though its what I do most of the time

, Dungeon Tanking needs some heavy love. I hate the fact that some bosses makes the tank useless, see Engine Guaridan and Planar Inhibitor. Some bosses do have mechanics that makes them lose agro but few have a mechanics that ignores it completely.

The big thing I think is that things in Dungeons just don't hit hard enough to warrent a tanks participation, or that the mechanics are just so easy that it makes to sense to have one. I know some will disagree but I wish @ZOS_Finn would be more harder on us and somewhat force us to run tanks in Dungeons, at least veteran dungeons, Non DLC as well as DLC. Too many situations where people are looking for people and activly push tanks away cause they don't want one in their group.

Give Tanks some love, its a fun role and in harder content a necessary one, but to few of us play it cause the community are not insentivsed enough to have one in their group, give us more reaons to have a Tank in ALL Veteran Dungeons. Will give more people a reason to try it and play it, rather than just being told they are a useless role and that people would rather have a strong DPS replace them.

SirCritical · June 2017

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

Franieck wrote: »

It is already hard to find a tank. It is much harder to find a decent tank. It is even rarer to find a decent and friendly tank. Decent, friendly ant patient? *giggles*... 2 of them? *bursting in laughter, stops, starts crying*

I'm friendly, patient and helpful, would be these replace "decent" ?

medusasfolly · June 2017

Oompuh wrote: »

I would like content that I can play alone as a Tank. It annoys me that a DD can do everything in the game, from Raids to Solo Content to Questing, while I stab a quest mob 40 times to kill it. I understand it, but dont like it.

Or the mind numbing, never ending, excruciating quest for a non-pvp tanks to earn caltrops.

josiahva · June 2017

Yes, there should be content that more than 1 tank is required

See, as a tank, here is the thing. I DONT CARE FOR TRIALS. Sure, I will tank them from time to time and I do enjoy tanking them....what I dont like about trials though is that everyone is pigeonholed into running meta builds, and tanks more so than ANY other role. What? You arent wearing Ebon/Alkosh? Go away! Or whatever else the meta build is for that particular trial, I play this game the way I want, using the builds I want and trials by their nature stamp out any individuality. I mean, I get it, I know why groups want you to wear this or that set, its because they want to beat vet HM with the highest score, but it just destroys most of the fun in the game for me when I have to play someone else's build just to have a spot in a trial. If I am running someone else's build I feel cheated, it makes me feel as if there is no point in even playing the content, its the antithesis of what ESO is supposed to be about. Obviously if my non-meta build was causing the group to wipe, that would be an issue, but if its rejected just for being non-meta, then why tank trials? Tanking in general is a thankless job, but trials make it even more so, your creativity is stifled and you are just a cog in a machine. In dungeons though its completely different...you can run whatever you want and no one cares, no one will even say anything unless its something really terrible...and THAT is why I enjoy small group content more, because you can actually be creative in your builds. Maybe this wouldn't be as much of a problem if it weren't for whole trial leaderboard thing, but it IS a problem. Or maybe I have yet to find a guild that encourages trial build diversity. I even enjoy playing meta builds from time to time, but I like to experiment more. I just wish trials were more conducive to that.

FearlessOne_2014 · June 2017

Sakiri wrote: »

We have plenty of tanks.

They just don't want to tank for pugs.

Making content that requires more of them won't instantly create more tanks.

As a person who have a tank. And know of at least 20 to 30 people in my guilds alone. That has a tank but don't use them. This right here is the major point.

So for difficult HM content. More so the ones with the dps races and checks. More so in a PUG or a guild group of weak players. Would you rather be the tank to watch every one else die before you do, because either healer or dps could not do their job. Or just not take that chance all together and take charge and be that PUG or weak group reviver, and carrier?

I haven't tank in a few months. But the times I did tank for PUGs or weak players. I had some of the worst experience. People would refuse to revive, players having trouble putting out 10k dps in Vet Hard mode DLC dungeons. So I more/less shelved my tank. And mostly queue PUGs as healer. And guild groups either as a healer or dps.

I actually think tanking is quite interesting. However, outside of trials which I have yet to tank. It's easier to tank then it is the heal and out damage some of the dps races in the Vet HM Dungeons. So I would only tank when I got dependable people from my guild or friends list to go healer and dps roles.