Mephisto939 wrote: »

Everyone keeps claiming that this was a business deecision required by ZOS to keep the lights on without a shred of evidence. Between the crown store, crown crates and subs, I find this very hard to believe. ESO had 7 million players this time last year. If only 2 million sub, then that's 30 million dollars per month, or 360 million a year. Let's be conservative and say they rake in another 40-50 million more from crown store and crates. I highly doubt they are bleeding cash.

kargen27 wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

Bait and switch or not idiots brought it and will keep throwing there money at ZOS continuously win for them loss for you.. This game is getting more and more money hungry while sub based mmos are still a win win deal..
Nobody ever does the maths it's still cheaper and I get better content from a sub based mmo ESO has so much content locked behind a pay wall now there just taking it to a new low...
REALLY did you expect any diff when so many kept supporting there disgusting tactics!
It's amusing to think ppl are sh.tty at this new system when most of them clapped there hands at the scam crates and didn't have the brains to understand how greedy ZOS have become and was bound to get worse using the simple logic if you spend more we will charge you more!

You should randomly give all your stuff away in zone then delete your characters and never come back. That will show them!

typical lame comment from a equally lame person is what to expect from morons that play and keep paying ZOS for crap totally oblivious to the hurt there doing the game by supporting there greed ..

Yeah! Because for the price of Morrowind I could have gone to see three movies and while watching two of those movies I could have had popcorn.

Or I could have played four rounds of miniature golf and had enough money left to get a gumball.

Wow do I feel cheated, all I got (so far) is around forty hours of being entertained and that is just with the first of several characters that will be visiting the new zone. I really am a moron, this thing cost me almost a dollar an hour for fun. Guess I will have to take solace in knowing by July that cost should be around twenty three cents per hour for time spent in Morrowind.

There their they're.

You feel like you got a good deal.I am happy for you, but it's totally irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Oh you were serious? Your argument comes off as parody at best. And actually my comment was relevant in response to your comment. You suggested I was somehow losing because I decided to purchase Morrowind.

My favorite part is where you think a sub based games content isn't behind a pay wall.

My 2nd favorite part is how you use the same word "content" to contradict yourself.

My third favorite part is where you think I am the "idiot" and "moron" in this exchange.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Does anyone even remember what the bait really was? If you want a funny read, check out this article from MMORPG.com with Mat Firor from February 20, 2015.

Here are some of the highlights for those of you that don't like clicking on things. Bolded parts are added by me when I chuckled, rolled my eyes, or face palmed.

MMORPG.com: How often can we see items being added or removed to/from the item shop?
A: We don’t have a firm fixed cadence yet, but expect to see rotation of inventory at least monthly, if not more often. We’ll have some limited time offers once in a while, etc.

MMORPG.com: Being a subscriber, players will receive anywhere from 1500, 4500, or 9000 crowns depending on which subscription option they choose but how much is that really. Obviously it depends on the item purchase but what would be the average or ball parked crown price for a costume, mount, and potions.
A: You can see the ballpark prices on PTS right now. We may adjust them a bit here and there over time, but you can get the general idea. Mounts are from 900-1300 (or more for a really special one), pets are 400-700, etc.

MMORPG.com: While being an ESO Plus member, we’ll have access to all the DLC content that is released for free. Does this include any future expansions should ESO ever have them?
A: When you are a Plus member, you get access to all the DLC that is available when you are a member. So over time you’ll get access to more and more areas by being a member.

Mounts from 900-1300. Access to incoming areas. Does that sound like the ESO we have today?

You tell me if that was a bait and switch or just market inflation when those 4500 mounts came out.

February 20, 2015

We may adjust them a bit here and there over time

STEVIL wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Everyone keeps claiming that this was a business deecision required by ZOS to keep the lights on without a shred of evidence. Between the crown store, crown crates and subs, I find this very hard to believe. ESO had 7 million players this time last year. If only 2 million sub, then that's 30 million dollars per month, or 360 million a year. Let's be conservative and say they rake in another 40-50 million more from crown store and crates. I highly doubt they are bleeding cash.

no, everyone is not claiming that.

Mephisto939 wrote: »

...Before you fanboys...

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

colig wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

But do you have any idea how MMO's work?

They could file bankruptcy and take the servers downs tomorrow. For a lawyer in training you should know not to poke the bear.

Also they could ban forum and in-game anytime they want, so keep making threads like these and see how they resprond.

Cheers!

I really hope the next big subscriber perk is an exclusive forum.

Of course you do. Maybe they will have a button so you fanboys can just donate directly to ZOS.

That'd be great.

I mean, I was joking of course, but I can't help but wonder sometimes, with no way to tell who is paying for this game and who is not, how much the shrieking of the unwashed masses is influencing the bourgeois game experience on which I'm spending my hard-earned sheckels.

Are changes being made which would displease me because those who refuse to support this grand endeavor are simply louder than I am?

It's a reasonable concern.

I thought you had to buy the game to have an account on the forums. Is that correct?

The word I used was "paying" as in an ongoing activity.

Not "paid," past tense.

kargen27 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

Bait and switch or not idiots brought it and will keep throwing there money at ZOS continuously win for them loss for you.. This game is getting more and more money hungry while sub based mmos are still a win win deal..
Nobody ever does the maths it's still cheaper and I get better content from a sub based mmo ESO has so much content locked behind a pay wall now there just taking it to a new low...
REALLY did you expect any diff when so many kept supporting there disgusting tactics!
It's amusing to think ppl are sh.tty at this new system when most of them clapped there hands at the scam crates and didn't have the brains to understand how greedy ZOS have become and was bound to get worse using the simple logic if you spend more we will charge you more!

You should randomly give all your stuff away in zone then delete your characters and never come back. That will show them!

typical lame comment from a equally lame person is what to expect from morons that play and keep paying ZOS for crap totally oblivious to the hurt there doing the game by supporting there greed ..

Yeah! Because for the price of Morrowind I could have gone to see three movies and while watching two of those movies I could have had popcorn.

Or I could have played four rounds of miniature golf and had enough money left to get a gumball.

Wow do I feel cheated, all I got (so far) is around forty hours of being entertained and that is just with the first of several characters that will be visiting the new zone. I really am a moron, this thing cost me almost a dollar an hour for fun. Guess I will have to take solace in knowing by July that cost should be around twenty three cents per hour for time spent in Morrowind.

There their they're.

You feel like you got a good deal.I am happy for you, but it's totally irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Oh you were serious? Your argument comes off as parody at best. And actually my comment was relevant in response to your comment. You suggested I was somehow losing because I decided to purchase Morrowind.

My favorite part is where you think a sub based games content isn't behind a pay wall.

My 2nd favorite part is how you use the same word "content" to contradict yourself.

My third favorite part is where you think I am the "idiot" and "moron" in this exchange.

Hey yeah... and one can be content with the price paid for the content and not even see the need to be contentious about it.

One could, but when one gets called an "idiot" and a "moron" one can get a bit cantankerous.

STEVIL wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Everyone keeps claiming that this was a business deecision required by ZOS to keep the lights on without a shred of evidence. Between the crown store, crown crates and subs, I find this very hard to believe. ESO had 7 million players this time last year. If only 2 million sub, then that's 30 million dollars per month, or 360 million a year. Let's be conservative and say they rake in another 40-50 million more from crown store and crates. I highly doubt they are bleeding cash.

no, everyone is not claiming that.

Yes, because I literally meant every single person... in the world.

then you see your error?

So much unnecessary hyperbole here.

Had you just said some or even many would have gotten same point across just with less exaggeration to make the case sound stronger.

louder and bigger do too often these days trump more accurate, so its not surprising at all.

esotoon wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

"Bait and switch" implies that they meant to do something shady. I don't think they meant to be shady at all.

A week after the last DLC released (Shadow of Hist) Matt Firor stated in an interview:

"Every quarter we release an update, and that update usually has a DLC associated with it. We really try and make sure that each DLC will appeal to the different types of players in the game, because ESO is such a giant game that there are players who only do PvP, there are players who just do solo questing, there are players who love dungeons and trials, and we need to make sure that every quarter each play style has some new content to explore"

And...

"We have been very successful with a retail launch and then DLC which you buy inside the game because we have a virtual currency system. So just whatever works for your game and resonates with the players. That's not to say that some day we won't do a retail expansion. For example, we have the gold edition which is a new retail ESO product coming out in three weeks, and that's a bundle pack where you can buy all the DLCs and the original game at one price. So, we are thinking about those kinds of things – it's just our focus right now is on quarterly updates and DLC."

So knowing full well that there would be no DLC for another year and that the pricing/release model was going to change, the Game Director of ESO was still giving the full impression that the known ESO+/DLC model was continuing.

From the release of Shadow of Hist until the announcement of Morrowind (5 months later), despite knowing otherwise, ZOS continued to take subscription money from subscribers whilst leaving them under the impression (thanks to statements from their employees and the wording of the t&c's) that the ESO+/DLC model was continuing and that the plan to try and release 4 DLCs a year and have them be part of your ESO+ subscription was still in place.

Even when Morrowind was announced, they did not state that the clause in the T&Cs that states that no refunds will be given on subscriptions, would be lifted for those members who no longer wished to subscribe given the change in business model. Leaving people locked into a sub (of up to 6 months) that they might not otherwise have taken up had they been informed by ZOS that their advertised release/price model plans were going to be changing.

I'll leave it up to you to decide whether the above constitutes being shady or not, and whether this was done deliberately.

SydneyGrey wrote: »

"Bait and switch" implies that they meant to do something shady. I don't think they meant to be shady at all.
I think it was more a matter of "Oh dang, we're putting a huge amount of work into this expansion, and half the people are going to get it for free. We need to make more money on this to make up for the hours we're paying the employees to make it."
Plus, if they make it pay-only, then they can do things like put buyable houses on it (more real estate to sell houses on), and a new class. (They could have sold the warden in the crown store separately, though.)