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Are cash only "chapters" bait and switch?
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Mephisto939✭✭✭✭Pathemavan wrote: »Mephisto939 wrote: »You have quoted me a section of the EULA saying they can change the EULA on a whim. Yes, in theory they obviously can. Whether or not it is legally binding and enforceable is another thing altogether.
Oh, very true. However, what change to the EULA in particular are you questioning the legality of?
I don't have the old and new EULAs to compare side by side, and it's kind of a moot point. I am simply saying that those arguing that EULA gives ZOS license to basically do whatever it wants are mistaken.Why did the Dunmer cross the road?
Apparently to get stuck in an eternal load screen!0 -
There's always class action suits, worked at least 12 times in the past for me. I'd much rather they just do the right thing however, but then they know they're likely to get away with it and besides, Zeni is likely sitting on a sizable litigation fund just in case.0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Talon_Draconis wrote: »
The stuff is all cashshop stuffShedsHisTail wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »
How wrong you are. In any MMO where there is a new class it is in an expansion. We got the Warden class with this EXPANSION. No bait and switch. No nothing. And just so you know, I am a ESO+ subscriber.
1. Get rid of this "if other MMO's do it this way then every MMO should!" it's absolute nonsense, and i doubt those MMO's promised "if you subscribe you always get access to all content" like ESO did. Also, i'm curious, are you for or against having an AH in ESO? i'm guessing you're selectively against it, while selective about what all MMO's have to do based on what other MMO's do.
2. Where on earth does this "new class = expansion" logic comes from? So if an MMO just sells a "New class, nothing else" pack, is it an expansion then? Should we take every single player game in known existence to court for mis-using the term expansion when they offer no 'new class'? I don't think Fallout 3 had a class system, but it has expansions!
Warden was cut content to begin with. it's hardly new when they held onto it for later...
Guild wars 2 all content additions are included in the base price they don't even have subs
The only reason I am not playing it is can't really get into the story and lore of the game
*cough*
http://buy.guildwars2.com/store/gw2/en_US/html/pbPage.heartofthorns
The game along will all the expansion races dungeon ect are free there is no difference in the content of the game the only differences between eds is the same stuff available if the cashsop .
Pretty well the same stuff that is in our cashsop.
The thing is all dlc chapters ect was included since I bought GW2 years ago.....if I wanted to I could dl heart of thorns right now and would not have to pay a cent more than I paid for the game years ago.
Now zmax forcing me to pay for dlc when I even paid them a sub so I when they said all future dlc would be included
Calling it a chapter and making it cash only so they can get a few bucks really pisses me off!
It's not very often that I wish I hadn't deleted old emails.
I could have sworn they were asking money for the expansion, but I can't find all the spammy emails they sent trying to get me to buy it.
That said, I played Guild Wars 2 for a couple years. And the quality of their game updates doesn't come anywhere near what ZOS has given us. Every update they released month after month was essentially the same thing, one small zone, with a new grind, new jump puzzle, couple generic world bosses (which would get zerged down hour after hour for the grindy stuff), and some new RNG cash shop item. It's why I quit playing. I loved the way the game played, I loved the way the game looked, an I even kinda liked the story; but none of their new content was new, it was the same old crap every month reskinned."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Of course it is, just as as crates are. They told us they would never do anything like RNG crates at the start just as they told us subscriptions would get all content, hell they made subbing optional because it would be a "buy once" thing. They lied on both accounts telling people "no, we won't do this, we will do that" knowing full well people will get into the game because of what they specifically promise. and then they go around and change their minds.
I'm just waiting for the moment to hear someone takes this further.
Just because a company says one thing at the very beginning, doesn't mean they can't change their minds later on down the line. Have you never changed your mind? Were you firm in your decision, like ever, and then one day decided to change your mind? Never?0 -
Fleshreaper✭✭✭✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Fleshreaper wrote: »Mephisto939 wrote: »I honestly doubt anything like a class action lawsuit will come from this, but if it did ZOS would be on pretty shaky ground. People saying they can change the EULA and do whatever they want are just plain wrong.
Incorrect! If they change the EULA and post it again, you once again have the OPTION to accept it or not.
Hmmm... not quite so straightforward, particularly if they have already taken your cash.
"You promised me a great game, you took my cash, you made me agree to the EULA before I could play it... I find it does not live up to your advertising promises..."
Of course it would cost too much to take them to court, which is precisely why they get away with it.
In fact many licence agreements wouldn't hold up in court, again, costs too much to find out.
Poor example for the fact that great is subjective. What you don't like, I may find great. And they didn't make you agree to EULA, that is on you.0 -
Ruckly✭✭✭✭They should put the crafting bag on a stick and add it as a 2h weapon for subscribers.4
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ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭They should put the crafting bag on a stick and add it as a 2h weapon for subscribers.
Fill it with my double bank space for extra damage."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
Mephisto939✭✭✭✭missjackieb14_ESO wrote: »Of course it is, just as as crates are. They told us they would never do anything like RNG crates at the start just as they told us subscriptions would get all content, hell they made subbing optional because it would be a "buy once" thing. They lied on both accounts telling people "no, we won't do this, we will do that" knowing full well people will get into the game because of what they specifically promise. and then they go around and change their minds.
I'm just waiting for the moment to hear someone takes this further.
Just because a company says one thing at the very beginning, doesn't mean they can't change their minds later on down the line. Have you never changed your mind? Were you firm in your decision, like ever, and then one day decided to change your mind? Never?
The whole purpose of contracts is to protect parties from just changing their mind. Maybe I should call ZOS and ask for all my ESO+ money back because I changed my mind.Why did the Dunmer cross the road?
Apparently to get stuck in an eternal load screen!3 -
Talon_Draconis✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »
The stuff is all cashshop stuffShedsHisTail wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »
How wrong you are. In any MMO where there is a new class it is in an expansion. We got the Warden class with this EXPANSION. No bait and switch. No nothing. And just so you know, I am a ESO+ subscriber.
1. Get rid of this "if other MMO's do it this way then every MMO should!" it's absolute nonsense, and i doubt those MMO's promised "if you subscribe you always get access to all content" like ESO did. Also, i'm curious, are you for or against having an AH in ESO? i'm guessing you're selectively against it, while selective about what all MMO's have to do based on what other MMO's do.
2. Where on earth does this "new class = expansion" logic comes from? So if an MMO just sells a "New class, nothing else" pack, is it an expansion then? Should we take every single player game in known existence to court for mis-using the term expansion when they offer no 'new class'? I don't think Fallout 3 had a class system, but it has expansions!
Warden was cut content to begin with. it's hardly new when they held onto it for later...
Guild wars 2 all content additions are included in the base price they don't even have subs
The only reason I am not playing it is can't really get into the story and lore of the game
*cough*
http://buy.guildwars2.com/store/gw2/en_US/html/pbPage.heartofthorns
The game along will all the expansion races dungeon ect are free there is no difference in the content of the game the only differences between eds is the same stuff available if the cashsop .
Pretty well the same stuff that is in our cashsop.
The thing is all dlc chapters ect was included since I bought GW2 years ago.....if I wanted to I could dl heart of thorns right now and would not have to pay a cent more than I paid for the game years ago.
Now zmax forcing me to pay for dlc when I even paid them a sub so I when they said all future dlc would be included
Calling it a chapter and making it cash only so they can get a few bucks really pisses me off!
It's not very often that I wish I hadn't deleted old emails.
I could have sworn they were asking money for the expansion, but I can't find all the spammy emails they sent trying to get me to buy it.
That said, I played Guild Wars 2 for a couple years. And the quality of their game updates doesn't come anywhere near what ZOS has given us. Every update they released month after month was essentially the same thing, one small zone, with a new grind, new jump puzzle, couple generic world bosses (which would get zerged down hour after hour for the grindy stuff), and some new RNG cash shop item. It's why I quit playing. I loved the way the game played, I loved the way the game looked, an I even kinda liked the story; but none of their new content was new, it was the same old crap every month reskinned.
I haven't play GW2 for years I just could not get into the game world but I remember the updates were always free and they always added new zones events and added to the story
I do Like eso alot better I don't even mind paying for a sub and cash shop stuff.
I bought all the dlc with crowns I looked as the sub as renting to own the dlc,
Sure it cost more but gave me the benefits of the content and paying ~$60 I would have enugh crowns to buy the dlc and maybe a mount or pet,
I would not even mind too much if I could buy morrowind with crowns like upgrading to the imp ed
But making it cash only peeved me off not the amount but the way the did it.0 -
Pathemavan✭✭✭Mephisto939 wrote: »Pathemavan wrote: »Mephisto939 wrote: »You have quoted me a section of the EULA saying they can change the EULA on a whim. Yes, in theory they obviously can. Whether or not it is legally binding and enforceable is another thing altogether.
Oh, very true. However, what change to the EULA in particular are you questioning the legality of?
I don't have the old and new EULAs to compare side by side, and it's kind of a moot point. I am simply saying that those arguing that EULA gives ZOS license to basically do whatever it wants are mistaken.
Understood. And I get where a lot of the people saying they wish ZOS hadn't done this, or hadn't changed the description of ESO+ to cover this. But what I still struggle with is those saying that they CAN'T make this change to ESO+.
If relief is really desired, you might get ZOS to cancel your ESO+, as well as possibly refund any time that was paid for before the change, but not technically used until after that change happened. I don't know if it'll work, as I haven't heard of anyone trying it.
However, the most unlikely scenario is the one that seems to be most desired - to add Morrowind to ESO+1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mephisto939 wrote: »missjackieb14_ESO wrote: »Of course it is, just as as crates are. They told us they would never do anything like RNG crates at the start just as they told us subscriptions would get all content, hell they made subbing optional because it would be a "buy once" thing. They lied on both accounts telling people "no, we won't do this, we will do that" knowing full well people will get into the game because of what they specifically promise. and then they go around and change their minds.
I'm just waiting for the moment to hear someone takes this further.
Just because a company says one thing at the very beginning, doesn't mean they can't change their minds later on down the line. Have you never changed your mind? Were you firm in your decision, like ever, and then one day decided to change your mind? Never?
The whole purpose of contracts is to protect parties from just changing their mind. Maybe I should call ZOS and ask for all my ESO+ money back because I changed my mind.
It's not a contract.
It's an advertisement, it's a statement of intent, it's an off-hand comment, it's a semantic loophole... You never signed a contract which said you would get all downloadable content free with your subscription, for ever. You never signed a contract which said you'd get four DLCs a year, for ever.
The only "contract" you signed said that any and all terms are subject to change, and you agreed to that. If you want people to stop bringing up the EULA and TOS as arguments, then you (and people like you) need to stop pretending that offhand comments made by ZOS employees, advertisements, or websites constitute a binding contract or perpetual promises.
They do not.
There is no ESO Plus contract.
Edited by ShedsHisTail on June 8, 2017 8:14PM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?3 -
Slurg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Does it matter? They have changed the business model every year (so far) anyway.
Happy All the Holidays To You and Yours!
Remembering better days of less RNG in all the things.3 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mephisto939 wrote: »missjackieb14_ESO wrote: »Of course it is, just as as crates are. They told us they would never do anything like RNG crates at the start just as they told us subscriptions would get all content, hell they made subbing optional because it would be a "buy once" thing. They lied on both accounts telling people "no, we won't do this, we will do that" knowing full well people will get into the game because of what they specifically promise. and then they go around and change their minds.
I'm just waiting for the moment to hear someone takes this further.
Just because a company says one thing at the very beginning, doesn't mean they can't change their minds later on down the line. Have you never changed your mind? Were you firm in your decision, like ever, and then one day decided to change your mind? Never?
The whole purpose of contracts is to protect parties from just changing their mind. Maybe I should call ZOS and ask for all my ESO+ money back because I changed my mind.
Let us know how that works out for you.0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Talon_Draconis wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »
The stuff is all cashshop stuffShedsHisTail wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »
How wrong you are. In any MMO where there is a new class it is in an expansion. We got the Warden class with this EXPANSION. No bait and switch. No nothing. And just so you know, I am a ESO+ subscriber.
1. Get rid of this "if other MMO's do it this way then every MMO should!" it's absolute nonsense, and i doubt those MMO's promised "if you subscribe you always get access to all content" like ESO did. Also, i'm curious, are you for or against having an AH in ESO? i'm guessing you're selectively against it, while selective about what all MMO's have to do based on what other MMO's do.
2. Where on earth does this "new class = expansion" logic comes from? So if an MMO just sells a "New class, nothing else" pack, is it an expansion then? Should we take every single player game in known existence to court for mis-using the term expansion when they offer no 'new class'? I don't think Fallout 3 had a class system, but it has expansions!
Warden was cut content to begin with. it's hardly new when they held onto it for later...
Guild wars 2 all content additions are included in the base price they don't even have subs
The only reason I am not playing it is can't really get into the story and lore of the game
*cough*
http://buy.guildwars2.com/store/gw2/en_US/html/pbPage.heartofthorns
The game along will all the expansion races dungeon ect are free there is no difference in the content of the game the only differences between eds is the same stuff available if the cashsop .
Pretty well the same stuff that is in our cashsop.
The thing is all dlc chapters ect was included since I bought GW2 years ago.....if I wanted to I could dl heart of thorns right now and would not have to pay a cent more than I paid for the game years ago.
Now zmax forcing me to pay for dlc when I even paid them a sub so I when they said all future dlc would be included
Calling it a chapter and making it cash only so they can get a few bucks really pisses me off!
It's not very often that I wish I hadn't deleted old emails.
I could have sworn they were asking money for the expansion, but I can't find all the spammy emails they sent trying to get me to buy it.
That said, I played Guild Wars 2 for a couple years. And the quality of their game updates doesn't come anywhere near what ZOS has given us. Every update they released month after month was essentially the same thing, one small zone, with a new grind, new jump puzzle, couple generic world bosses (which would get zerged down hour after hour for the grindy stuff), and some new RNG cash shop item. It's why I quit playing. I loved the way the game played, I loved the way the game looked, an I even kinda liked the story; but none of their new content was new, it was the same old crap every month reskinned.
I haven't play GW2 for years I just could not get into the game world but I remember the updates were always free and they always added new zones events and added to the story
I do Like eso alot better I don't even mind paying for a sub and cash shop stuff.
I bought all the dlc with crowns I looked as the sub as renting to own the dlc,
Sure it cost more but gave me the benefits of the content and paying ~$60 I would have enugh crowns to buy the dlc and maybe a mount or pet,
I would not even mind too much if I could buy morrowind with crowns like upgrading to the imp ed
But making it cash only peeved me off not the amount but the way the did it.
For what it's worth, I think being able to buy Morrowind with Crowns is reasonable, you're still buying it; not getting it for free with your subscription (which I think would just invite more problems when it comes to the new character class).
However, as other's have pointed out, "Available in the Crown store" is how ZOS has chosen to differentiate Chapters from regular DLC Game Packs; so I understand why they don't allow you to purchase it with Crowns, because it'd invalidate that distinction. So, I mean, yeah, it sucks that you can't use the Crowns you have stored up for it, but I understand why they did it that way."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Roovin✭✭✭Lol at all these legal experts here saying that ZOS should be shaking in their boots if anyone decides to sue.
What they did/do is 100% legal. They aren't nearly the first company to use a EULA like this and won't be the last3 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lol at all these legal experts here saying that ZOS should be shaking in their boots if anyone decides to sue.
What they did/do is 100% legal. They aren't nearly the first company to use a EULA like this and won't be the last
I know. It's like some people think they just handed it off to an intern to write up and poof in 20 minutes we have a EULA. They had a entire legal team work and research to get it right. Nothing is bulletproof, but to infer that it is meaningless and without bite is completely inaccurate.2 -
Ruckly✭✭✭✭I once read a book on business ethics. I didn't really learn anything from it. It mostly stated what business ethics ought to be and showed a few historical case examples from the legislative and judicial branches. I read another book called The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli (Listened to part of an e-book of it while farming in another mmo ) and while it seemed to have little value at the time it was written or for the next 200 years since Italy didn't change much as far as nation states are concerned during that interval it is a good starting point on learning business ethics imo. Except maybe the part about mercenaries. 0
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ZirconJunkie✭✭✭✭Lure customers in with a sweet deal, aka 4 DLCs a year included with the ESO+, then change the terms, aka 3 DLCs a year included in ESO+ and 1 paid "expansion".
It's quite a good example of a bait and switch.
Also, there have been no DLCs in 12 months. Where's the last 4 DLCs your paying customers were supposed to have gotten ZoS?2 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mephisto939 wrote: »Before you fanboys type a knee-jerk response please read the following definitions:
In retail sales[edit]
First, customers are "baited" by merchants's advertising products or services at a low price, but when customers visit the store, they discover that the advertised goods either are not available or are not as good as expected, or the customers are pressured by sales people to consider similar, but higher-priced, items ("switching").
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch
Definition of bait and switch
1
: a sales tactic in which a customer is attracted by the advertisement of a low-priced item but is then encouraged to buy a higher-priced one
2
: the ploy of offering a person something desirable to gain favor (such as political support) then thwarting expectations with something less desirable
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bait and switch
People have already posted comments by ZOS saying that ESO+ Subs would get free quarterly DLCs, and that subs would never need to pay for additional content. Calling Morrowind an "expansion" or "chapter" is an absolute marketing ploy in a sad attempt to get around their commitments. Kind of like advertising doughnuts for 50 cents and then charging you 2$ by claiming it's not a doughnut: it's a fried pastry with a hole in it.
Yes...Yes it is and you should quit the game in protest.
That aside the did not say subs would never need to pay for additional content. They said all content available in the crown store would be available to subscribers. Huge difference there.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭yet ANOTHER of these threads. Honestly they are not doing anything that has not been done before. People need to get the hell over it. Also bring on the flame i have reached a point of 0 fcks given.IGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mephisto939 wrote: »Before you fanboys type a knee-jerk response please read the following definitions:
In retail sales[edit]
First, customers are "baited" by merchants's advertising products or services at a low price, but when customers visit the store, they discover that the advertised goods either are not available or are not as good as expected, or the customers are pressured by sales people to consider similar, but higher-priced, items ("switching").
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch
Definition of bait and switch
1
: a sales tactic in which a customer is attracted by the advertisement of a low-priced item but is then encouraged to buy a higher-priced one
2
: the ploy of offering a person something desirable to gain favor (such as political support) then thwarting expectations with something less desirable
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bait and switch
People have already posted comments by ZOS saying that ESO+ Subs would get free quarterly DLCs, and that subs would never need to pay for additional content. Calling Morrowind an "expansion" or "chapter" is an absolute marketing ploy in a sad attempt to get around their commitments. Kind of like advertising doughnuts for 50 cents and then charging you 2$ by claiming it's not a doughnut: it's a fried pastry with a hole in it.
How wrong you are. In any MMO where there is a new class it is in an expansion. We got the Warden class with this EXPANSION. No bait and switch. No nothing. And just so you know, I am a ESO+ subscriber.
Your also a corporate thrall.
It's a bait and switch, ZOS being greedy. Nothing more, everything less.0 -
snakester320✭✭✭✭Bait and switch or not idiots brought it and will keep throwing there money at ZOS continuously win for them loss for you.. This game is getting more and more money hungry while sub based mmos are still a win win deal..
Nobody ever does the maths it's still cheaper and I get better content from a sub based mmo ESO has so much content locked behind a pay wall now there just taking it to a new low...
REALLY did you expect any diff when so many kept supporting there disgusting tactics!
It's amusing to think ppl are sh.tty at this new system when most of them clapped there hands at the scam crates and didn't have the brains to understand how greedy ZOS have become and was bound to get worse using the simple logic if you spend more we will charge you more!
Edited by snakester320 on June 8, 2017 10:16PM0 -
CaptainBeerDude✭✭✭✭✭I once read a book on business ethics. I didn't really learn anything from it. It mostly stated what business ethics ought to be and showed a few historical case examples from the legislative and judicial branches. I read another book called The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli (Listened to part of an e-book of it while farming in another mmo ) and while it seemed to have little value at the time it was written or for the next 200 years since Italy didn't change much as far as nation states are concerned during that interval it is a good starting point on learning business ethics imo. Except maybe the part about mercenaries.
Board members and lawyers are the new mercenaries. The Prince holds up quite well today. There is just a language barrier as they couldn't imagine, let alone describe, the situations that are applicable today. It's just less physically violent with all participants focussing on using money to destroy their opponents lives instead of brute force force to take them.0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snakester320 wrote: »Bait and switch or not idiots brought it and will keep throwing there money at ZOS continuously win for them loss for you.. This game is getting more and more money hungry while sub based mmos are still a win win deal..
Nobody ever does the maths it's still cheaper and I get better content from a sub based mmo ESO has so much content locked behind a pay wall now there just taking it to a new low...
REALLY did you expect any diff when so many kept supporting there disgusting tactics!
It's amusing to think ppl are sh.tty at this new system when most of them clapped there hands at the scam crates and didn't have the brains to understand how greedy ZOS have become and was bound to get worse using the simple logic if you spend more we will charge you more!
You should randomly give all your stuff away in zone then delete your characters and never come back. That will show them!and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
snakester320✭✭✭✭snakester320 wrote: »Bait and switch or not idiots brought it and will keep throwing there money at ZOS continuously win for them loss for you.. This game is getting more and more money hungry while sub based mmos are still a win win deal..
Nobody ever does the maths it's still cheaper and I get better content from a sub based mmo ESO has so much content locked behind a pay wall now there just taking it to a new low...
REALLY did you expect any diff when so many kept supporting there disgusting tactics!
It's amusing to think ppl are sh.tty at this new system when most of them clapped there hands at the scam crates and didn't have the brains to understand how greedy ZOS have become and was bound to get worse using the simple logic if you spend more we will charge you more!
You should randomly give all your stuff away in zone then delete your characters and never come back. That will show them!
typical lame comment from a equally lame person is what to expect from morons that play and keep paying ZOS for crap totally oblivious to the hurt there doing the game by supporting there greed ..1 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I really don't understand where people get their beliefs about law from. They really have no association with reality.
The following case is so on point that it gives me goosebumps.
paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/07d0658p.pdf
And you thought ESO housing was expensive....
If you aren't versed in legalese, here is a simplified summary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bragg_v._Linden_Lab
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STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So in late Jan they announced on their web site the next chapter and on eso live on 1/31 they told abt new pricing chug for chapters.
That was months and months before it took effect.
Every sub carries with it one key facet - it only applies to its sub period.
The sub I bought in 2016 May does not mean I get its benefits today. What determines whether or not I get sub benefits today is the current sub I have going and I paid that on May 2017 under rules that said the current chapters thingy.
If you bought a six month sub between Dec u 2016 and Jan 31 2017, then you have a case where the rules for your sub changed during your sub period.
The EULA still covers ZOS in that case but you have a better case.
But all the subs that expired before 6-6 paid their money, got their term, got their benefits regardless of Morrow and so no fault incurred.
All those bought after the chapters announce on 1-31, again no fault from Morrow.
The thinking that expired subs grant you their benefits in perpetuity until the end of time that cannot should not ever be changed is flawed and that is being polite.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."3
