STEVIL wrote: »

If you bought a six month sub between Dec u 2016 and Jan 31 2017, then you have a case where the rules for your sub changed during your sub period.

Even this is debatable. If you look at the original ESO+ marketing material, they promise the subber access to "any DLC that's available". That can be interpreted as "all content that is available right now"(at the point of purchase):

http://web.archive.org/web/20150123233407/http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2015/01/21/your-guide-to-eso-plus-premium-membership

While you’re a member, you’ll enjoy faster progression thanks to the helpful buffs to XP, gold, and crafting, and you’ll be able to access any DLC game pack that’s available

The wording didn't actually promise access to all future content released while the sub is running (even tho that's how it worked for everything save morrowind).

Sharee wrote: »

"Definition of bait and switch
1
: a sales tactic in which a customer is attracted by the advertisement of a low-priced item but is then encouraged to buy a higher-priced one"

Is it still bait and switch when there is a time difference of several years between the advertisement of a low-priced item and the encouragement to buy a high-priced one?

I don't think so.

Yes, ZOS said eso plus will give you all content without having to buy it separately. And it was true, for years. You can not realistically expect a company to never change a set policy, until the End of Days.

You can, unless they explicitly stated *Subject to change, which is mandatory to add in any cash purchase or service in any other industry. And I somewhat don't recall them saying that their pricing models were subject to change anytime soon.

Morrowind was not done overnight, part of it was showcased in 2014 QuakeCon along with other DLC areas we only got years later. It was in development probably as long as the game has been out, if not longer - so they knew FULLY Well what they were going to offer and probably had a set price and tactic in mind, these things don't just happen overnight, like I said, they are all carefully planned and executed to maximise profits.
It's not like they just threw up Morrowind in a few months and weren't sure what to price it or charge for it, then it could be attributed​ to rushed and unfair pricing due to lack of time or research. No, they had years to figure it all out, they knew it all along and still went ahead to mislead people with their pricing and costs and somehow conveniently​ forgot to mention that certain larger future content might be charged for extra.

This is what gets me and I assume - others, pissed. Not the price, not the fact you pay for content. Heck when I played MMO's - sub fee was mandatory AND you had to pay for DLC/expansions on top of it - it never bothered me or most folks as it was disclosed upfront and never changed - you knew what you were getting and how much it's going to cost. But ZoS changes their minds every so often it seems and never disclose it upfront nor are being honest about it until the actual deadline is here and it's already being implemented. That is just dirty. Not illegal - probably no, but still dirty and very much deserves every bit of criticism and complaints folks give it. It's justified for the very reasons I mentioned.

Mephisto939 wrote: »

"Fleshreaper wrote:

Last time I checked Zenimax operated inside the United States of America, which at this time is still a free country. It's their software/game, it's their business to change their business model at ANY time to continue operating. If you the consumer do not like that, simple exercise your RIGHT to NOT purchase it. Things change every day, adapt and over come or go the way of the dodo and common sense.

So let me get this straight...Because ZOS is based in the US (the most litigious country in the world), they are somehow immune to contract law??????????????

Perhaps he doesn't understand that you can make commitments in a "free country

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Actually the crown crates are more considered bait and switch cause you don't know what your going to get out of it, you already know full well what you were obtaining in Morrowind and it was worth it to the majority of the population.

Crown crates are not a bait and switch by any means. It is just gambling. You already know you will likely get crap.

And NO ONE is claiming that Morrowind was a bait and switch. They are saying ESO+ marketing was.

snakester320 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

Bait and switch or not idiots brought it and will keep throwing there money at ZOS continuously win for them loss for you.. This game is getting more and more money hungry while sub based mmos are still a win win deal..
Nobody ever does the maths it's still cheaper and I get better content from a sub based mmo ESO has so much content locked behind a pay wall now there just taking it to a new low...
REALLY did you expect any diff when so many kept supporting there disgusting tactics!
It's amusing to think ppl are sh.tty at this new system when most of them clapped there hands at the scam crates and didn't have the brains to understand how greedy ZOS have become and was bound to get worse using the simple logic if you spend more we will charge you more!

You should randomly give all your stuff away in zone then delete your characters and never come back. That will show them!

typical lame comment from a equally lame person is what to expect from morons that play and keep paying ZOS for crap totally oblivious to the hurt there doing the game by supporting there greed ..

Yeah! Because for the price of Morrowind I could have gone to see three movies and while watching two of those movies I could have had popcorn.

Or I could have played four rounds of miniature golf and had enough money left to get a gumball.

Wow do I feel cheated, all I got (so far) is around forty hours of being entertained and that is just with the first of several characters that will be visiting the new zone. I really am a moron, this thing cost me almost a dollar an hour for fun. Guess I will have to take solace in knowing by July that cost should be around twenty three cents per hour for time spent in Morrowind.

There their they're.

kargen27 wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

Bait and switch or not idiots brought it and will keep throwing there money at ZOS continuously win for them loss for you.. This game is getting more and more money hungry while sub based mmos are still a win win deal..
Nobody ever does the maths it's still cheaper and I get better content from a sub based mmo ESO has so much content locked behind a pay wall now there just taking it to a new low...
REALLY did you expect any diff when so many kept supporting there disgusting tactics!
It's amusing to think ppl are sh.tty at this new system when most of them clapped there hands at the scam crates and didn't have the brains to understand how greedy ZOS have become and was bound to get worse using the simple logic if you spend more we will charge you more!

You should randomly give all your stuff away in zone then delete your characters and never come back. That will show them!

typical lame comment from a equally lame person is what to expect from morons that play and keep paying ZOS for crap totally oblivious to the hurt there doing the game by supporting there greed ..

Yeah! Because for the price of Morrowind I could have gone to see three movies and while watching two of those movies I could have had popcorn.

Or I could have played four rounds of miniature golf and had enough money left to get a gumball.

Wow do I feel cheated, all I got (so far) is around forty hours of being entertained and that is just with the first of several characters that will be visiting the new zone. I really am a moron, this thing cost me almost a dollar an hour for fun. Guess I will have to take solace in knowing by July that cost should be around twenty three cents per hour for time spent in Morrowind.

There their they're.

You feel like you got a good deal.I am happy for you, but it's totally irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Katahdin wrote: »

Oh Look
Yet another attempt to brow beat and twist ZMax's arm into including Morrowind with ESO+.

Nice try. +1 for creativity and putting 2+2 together but its not going to work.

Call it DLC, not DLC, Expansion, Chapter, Bait and switch, the best thing since sliced bread or a steaming pile of doggy doodoo, it wont matter one bit.

You have to pay for it. No matter how many ways people try to justify why it should be free, it wont be free.

So pay for it, or dont pay for it, your choice.
Or start a class action lawsuit and see how far it gets you.
Or rage quit and uninstall.
Still wont matter. It will still be content you have to pay for.

If enough people dont pay for it they can just shut down the servers.
If they give everything away for free, they might as well shut down the servers because Im sure ZoS employees wont work for free.

I have ESO+ and I bought Morrowind. Yea I wasnt thrilled about paying for it, but I get alot of enjoyment out of this game and I know that with the amount of time Ill spend in Morrowind, it will be less than one dollar per hour spent. Cheapest entertainment money can buy really.

We both know ZOS isn't going to bend on this. But maybe if enough people express their displeasure, they will think twice before pulling this crap in the future. i am extremely skeptical of claims that ZOS must be in financial dire straights. Again, the fact that you think it's a good deal is irrelevant.

h

KingYogi415 wrote: »

But do you have any idea how MMO's work?

They could file bankruptcy and take the servers downs tomorrow. For a lawyer in training you should know not to poke the bear.

Also they could ban forum and in-game anytime they want, so keep making threads like these and see how they resprond.

Cheers!

Sure, because silencing criticism always works doesn't it. The fact that threads like this keep coming up ought to tell you something.

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

But do you have any idea how MMO's work?

They could file bankruptcy and take the servers downs tomorrow. For a lawyer in training you should know not to poke the bear.

Also they could ban forum and in-game anytime they want, so keep making threads like these and see how they resprond.

Cheers!

I really hope the next big subscriber perk is an exclusive forum.

Of course you do. Maybe they will have a button so you fanboys can just donate directly to ZOS.

Rhoric wrote: »

How wrong you are. In any MMO where there is a new class it is in an expansion. We got the Warden class with this EXPANSION. No bait and switch. No nothing. And just so you know, I am a ESO+ subscriber.

Even ZOS don't think it's an EXPANSION, so you're wrong.

This was a slimy move by ZOS. ESO plus was meant to give you access to all DLC, so instead of calling Morrowind DLC they call it a chapter/expansion. This is a money grab from them. They are trying to milk the game because they know we will buy the expansion, and they are right.

I don't really feel like this was a bait and switch moment for ZOS but it might have been close. I think, as a business, they decided that they wanted to do more than just DLC's and add some things with a little more punch/juicy content so they are going to add "Chapters". How is this different from Expansions from other titles?

Morrowind is pretty good, very fun and Warden so far is fun. If they are going to keep to this new business model then they should try to add more content to Chapters honestly. What bit them was that they changed the business model and the TOS behind subscriptions really late into it. It would have been better if they announced that sooner.

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

But do you have any idea how MMO's work?

They could file bankruptcy and take the servers downs tomorrow. For a lawyer in training you should know not to poke the bear.

Also they could ban forum and in-game anytime they want, so keep making threads like these and see how they resprond.

Cheers!

I really hope the next big subscriber perk is an exclusive forum.

Of course you do. Maybe they will have a button so you fanboys can just donate directly to ZOS.

That'd be great.

I mean, I was joking of course, but I can't help but wonder sometimes, with no way to tell who is paying for this game and who is not, how much the shrieking of the unwashed masses is influencing the bourgeois game experience on which I'm spending my hard-earned sheckels.

Are changes being made which would displease me because those who refuse to support this grand endeavor are simply louder than I am?

It's a reasonable concern.

I thought you had to buy the game to have an account on the forums. Is that correct?

Mephisto939 wrote: »

h

KingYogi415 wrote: »

But do you have any idea how MMO's work?

They could file bankruptcy and take the servers downs tomorrow. For a lawyer in training you should know not to poke the bear.

Also they could ban forum and in-game anytime they want, so keep making threads like these and see how they resprond.

Cheers!

Sure, because silencing criticism always works doesn't it. The fact that threads like this keep coming up ought to tell you something.

it sure does - that whether a complaint has any merit at all has nothing to do with how much it gets forumed by those who seek to post negatives no matter what.

you can pretty much go back thru every patch of significance, every dlc release, every change in game and see threads a plenty griping about anything and everything... usually having many with dire predictions and promises of how enough complaints will stop and so on and so on and so on...

then check out the periods between.... then the flurry of post-change threads will be replaced by complaint threads about how long it has been since fixes and how the users are being ignored and so on and so on and again predicitons that enough complaints will get more action sooner and...

This thread, its nothing new. just a different label on the same old tired...

you could practically write a fill-in-blank complaint and just replace "the INSERT GRIPE HERE and INSERT GREED HERE with the change de jour each time.

The Third Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics is: The amount of whining in forums is a constant as grievance cannot be created or destroyed or resolved merely transformed into the latest flavor of action take or action not taken.

the Seventh law is: For every complaint, there is an equal action or inaction it is keyed on or then later an equal inaction or action to spawn the next complaint. this is referred to commonly as the Gripe And Groan MEtamorphosis (GAG Me)


As Benjamin Franklin said in his first tweet: "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

kargen27 wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

Bait and switch or not idiots brought it and will keep throwing there money at ZOS continuously win for them loss for you.. This game is getting more and more money hungry while sub based mmos are still a win win deal..
Nobody ever does the maths it's still cheaper and I get better content from a sub based mmo ESO has so much content locked behind a pay wall now there just taking it to a new low...
REALLY did you expect any diff when so many kept supporting there disgusting tactics!
It's amusing to think ppl are sh.tty at this new system when most of them clapped there hands at the scam crates and didn't have the brains to understand how greedy ZOS have become and was bound to get worse using the simple logic if you spend more we will charge you more!

You should randomly give all your stuff away in zone then delete your characters and never come back. That will show them!

typical lame comment from a equally lame person is what to expect from morons that play and keep paying ZOS for crap totally oblivious to the hurt there doing the game by supporting there greed ..

Yeah! Because for the price of Morrowind I could have gone to see three movies and while watching two of those movies I could have had popcorn.

Or I could have played four rounds of miniature golf and had enough money left to get a gumball.

Wow do I feel cheated, all I got (so far) is around forty hours of being entertained and that is just with the first of several characters that will be visiting the new zone. I really am a moron, this thing cost me almost a dollar an hour for fun. Guess I will have to take solace in knowing by July that cost should be around twenty three cents per hour for time spent in Morrowind.

There their they're.

Psssst.

Go buy a standalone game for$60, you're lucky as hell if it gets anywhere close to 40 hours of gameplay.

You also aren't even factoring a new class or BG