Delete.

pieratsos · June 2017

TheRealSniker wrote: »

@Pieratsos
Damn dude, you really got me there with the literal comparison of lore to ESO PvP, you almost forgot that I mentioned the actual feel that has ties to the Lore and not the actual bit of gameplay we had in Skyrim. *Clap*
Since Elder Scrolls game were always heavily tied to the Lore and made a perfect example of how to make a "book"(Please dont take it literally again) into a Game, it loses its identity bit by bit with every major change which is sad.

The bit you marked in Bold you also took out of context cause youre too stupid to actually understand what I mean. Zenimax removed the few builds that worked in the unique Playstyle called "Ganking" and made us heavily rely on the Cheese Mechanic that are Procs.
Armor Pen builds and Full Wep Dmg builds did well in Ganks because they scaled well with the Critical Damage which was already very heavily countered thanks to Impen, they removed the mechanic that made it work.
As I mentioned about 10 times by now, I didnt cheese out with Procs, but now I have to cause thats the only more or less reliable source of Damage and I hate it.

Go on and ask around people who are better than you if they had been killed by StamBlades who do not use Procs after the Patch, bet cant find one can ya?

The whole post is about a very bad decision Zenimax made and not how "Ughhh Wughhh NB damage was OP!!!!111!!111! and now it isnt *sadface*".
There are tons of different ways we could get nerfed and still be happy yet they decided to do it the worst way possible, to not give a *** about the actual broken stuff but rather nerf an already weak mechanic.

No, what they removed was free dmg being handed to players and helping them get kills without being actually good. Thats what they removed.

Proc sets are a huge issue with the game and sooner or later they will get nerfed again (hopefully) cause they are ruining BGs. Regardless of that, the change to remove the free dmg was good cause it had nothing to do with player skill which actually is similar to proc sets since those give you free dmg as well. And yet you are calling only one of them broken. Maybe because you are using the other? Biased much? And im sure that extra dmg was weak. Thats why that change ruined ur playstyle after all. Cause its weak. Lol.

The feeling of assassin ( being able to do huge burst dmg and being squishy) is what stamblade is all about. But you are fighting other human beings. Just as you stack crit dmg to kill people the same way they stack crit resistance to mitigate the incoming burst. So get off ur high horse with ur entitlement of one shotting everyone. Learn the class and use the abilities it gives you. If you cant survive more than 3 seconds in a fight its ur fault.

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I can gank a 29k hp mag dk with spiked armor and "1 shot" him with the correct combo. Its a L2Gank thing now. Clever Alchemist is required. So are proc sets since they deal high none crit based burst.

However i agree that the change was not nessesary. Players has the option to slot magelight and mitigate ganks but did not. How is that the gankers fault?

Because the idea of forcing every single player in the game to slot one ability to avoid a potential death that has absolutely nothing to do with the player skill but free dmg being given to the ganker instead, is stupid to say the least.

They got rid of the extra dmg and nerfed magelight. Makes sense, no?

So instead of nerfing sorc shields or shields in general were given shield breaker instead of nerfing them? Logic right?

Im fine with the changes but it is odd. There were some specific gank builds that needed adjustments which were fixed after the bandaid fix of removing all stealth crit damage. Just it makes ganking very hard to do without being either proc oriented or combo oriented.

It also makes ganking a lot more player specific. Solo ganking is a lot harder. I have a gank buddy though so im fine. He just tosses a flying blade my way when i engage and i do the same for him. No joke flying blade is making a come back for duo ganking.

TheRealSniker · June 2017

Jawasa wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIKrVbOLbaY

No procs at all.

I hope you can notice how bad these Sorcerers are, none of them even tried doing haunting curse or kiting the NB. Bad positioning and set of abilities

Jawasa · June 2017

Ofc the yare bad his killing like 5 of them. That's one part of 1vx. But also good players make there opponents look bad and he still pretty much take 50% of there health with 1 incap.

pieratsos · June 2017

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I can gank a 29k hp mag dk with spiked armor and "1 shot" him with the correct combo. Its a L2Gank thing now. Clever Alchemist is required. So are proc sets since they deal high none crit based burst.

However i agree that the change was not nessesary. Players has the option to slot magelight and mitigate ganks but did not. How is that the gankers fault?

Because the idea of forcing every single player in the game to slot one ability to avoid a potential death that has absolutely nothing to do with the player skill but free dmg being given to the ganker instead, is stupid to say the least.

They got rid of the extra dmg and nerfed magelight. Makes sense, no?

So instead of nerfing sorc shields or shields in general were given shield breaker instead of nerfing them? Logic right?

Im fine with the changes but it is odd. There were some specific gank builds that needed adjustments which were fixed after the bandaid fix of removing all stealth crit damage. Just it makes ganking very hard to do without being either proc oriented or combo oriented.

It also makes ganking a lot more player specific. Solo ganking is a lot harder. I have a gank buddy though so im fine. He just tosses a flying blade my way when i engage and i do the same for him. No joke flying blade is making a come back for duo ganking.

Completely agree with you on the shield thing. Shieldbreaker was a band aid fix that didnt fix anything and shieldstacking is still a problem. But just because that was a crap change it doesnt mean that they should treat everything the same way.

Having free dmg from sneak was an issue. Gankers get a guaranteed crit, a stun, time to pick their opponent and buff up before they initiate. Why the hell should they also get free dmg on top of that. It should be hard to 1 shot someone. Thats player skill. The stamblade combo is not rocket science. People that dont know sh*t about the class and cant perform a simple combo shouldnt be able to do it.

kadar · June 2017

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Which means you're still getting a minimum 150% normal damage before mitigation vs the 175% you were getting before, all while being completely undetected.

I say again, what do you have to complain about...

it was 200% from sneak + 30% lost from Heavy attacks, our appareantly OP mechanic "guaranteed crit" feels useless with the amount of impen every player is running.

I don't think it was 200% damage. That may be the value against mobs, but I believe it has always been lower on players. Looking for more information now.

Ive been asking for zos to give us the numbers every patch. Nothing. Even when they removed it they did not specifiy what they removed.

@GreenSoup2HoT @TheRealSniker
From what I can find, prior to Morrowind the bonus Critical Damage from Sneak was 0.27. That value was additive with our Crit modifier of around 0.72, not counting CP (0.5 [base] + 0.1 [NB passive] +0.12 [Shadow Mundus]), for a total of 0.99.

This means a Snipe for 10k damage would crit for 19,900 prior to Morrowind. Removing our Sneak bonus results in that same Snipe crit-ing for 17,200 on live.

On the magelight note: it reduced the damage from sneak attacks by 50% in the past. That feature is gone and replaced only by losing the Sneak Crit Modifier as explained above. Unless I missed something, Gankers should actually be hitting RML users (and "their nearby allies") far harder this update than they were pre-Morrowind!

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2017

@The_Outsider The stealth damage crit bonus applied to all sources of damage for the first 0.5 seconds i believe. Not just the first strike. Some specific combos got nerfed a little harder. Ive noticed the total dps of my combo went down, not just the first strike.

I still gank just fine though. Also not many people used radiant mage light preMorrowind. So it is still a loss.

Juhasow · June 2017

Until incap and fear wont get any reasonable tuning down stamblade is not in position to cry about beeing not effective in terms of burst with or without proc sets with or without sneak.

IZZEFlameLash · June 2017

There are people out there who gank just fine without proc sets. I've been on the receiving end before and then the giving. 0 procs required. Stamblades are really strong in this patch. Just their damage type (disease) alone is making them strong. Also their ability to use the most situational set that no other class can use without potions make them stronger in terms of sustain as well in this nerfed sustained meta. I do not see where stamblades are in bad place with this sneak damage change.

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2017

@IZZESparkling What set you speaking of if i may ask?

Waffennacht · June 2017

I gotta say OP, you'll find very few people that'll call ganking skill based and proc sets carriers. Most find both equally distasteful.

Magıc · June 2017

Ganking is the most cancerous aspect of PVP.

Stamblade is the meta. Even non proc stamblades are stronger than all other classes if in the right hands.

And I'll repeat: Ganking is the most cancerous aspect of PVP.

Barbaran · June 2017

every whining post i see on here lately is from people who seemed to rely on "cancer" or "less skillful" builds and playstyles.
i had a nightblade geared like this and got bored really fast because it was too easy, yet it seems some people never got bored of pressing the easy button.
everyone ive talked to that i consider a "good" or "skillful" player seems to be really enjoying morrowind. mainly because the easy button has been nerfed and those players now dont know what to do

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2017

@Magic Assassins always getting a bad name....

dont matter the game.

FearlessOne_2014 · June 2017

Adernath wrote: »

Dear OP, a word from Sorc to NB: If you want a 1-shotting assassine, I want to play a mage who has powerful shields or other magical wards that last sufficiently long enough that I do not have to care about any dagger wielding sneaky beggar. Since this is my picture of a sorcerer. ;-)

Unfortunately we are playing an MMO and can not enter god-mode. You can't 1 shot players and I can't shield myself for eternity. So lets stay realistic and use our abilities to the best.

I beg to differ just watch my first attempts on the ProcBlade.

https://youtu.be/wtwSDDzKnHY

Basically as you can see here. I one shotted quite a few players on my first outing with this brain dead build. Viper and seleen practically did all the work for me. And as you can see. With this build I'm a assassin who is pretty tanky. Even when confronting some fully buffed targets.

Moral of this story Stamina Nightblade and Proc Sets are completely overpowered easy mode. With allows you to be a assassin that can also tank a load of damage. Because #ZOSlogic

LinearParadox · June 2017

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Gankblades could never Face to Face any good players nor prepared Players.

And you're wondering why it was nerfed?

You just admitted that the players preyed on the weak.
And you're wondering why it was nerfed?

People were getting 1-shotted with 0 counterplay.
And you're wondering why it was nerfed?

It was destroying balanced builds, and build diversity in general, distilling every freedom the game had down to one question: can you be one shot?
And you're wondering why it was nerfed.

It was, in very large part, the cause of the heavy armor meta almost everyone hated.
It was infuriating to players, it was a toxic mechanic that lead to people feeling 'cheated'.
It removed almost all skill from the equation on the part of the defender.
It was massively imbalanced in places like Imperial City.
.... and you think this was an "amatuer" decision???

No sir, this was one of the only good changes this patch.

I had a Nightblade that could hit people, with ONE attack, for almost 30K. Through Heavy armor.
That is utterly F-ing absurd. The bonus multiplier on that first hit NEEDED to go. No question about it.

Qbiken · June 2017

My thoughts About why they nerfed sneak:

Since sustain was going to be nerfed there would be 2 ways to go in PvP:

1. Invest more into sustain and lose a lot of damage.
2. Invest into a lot of burst damage and kill your oppenents fast. You don´t need sustain if there´s no one to sustain against *Points to head xD

Since I imagine ZOS doesn´t want PvP to be 100% gankparty, nerfing down the critdamage from stealth could´ve been a way of preventing a new "meta" in pvp with a lot of gank/burst builds only.

Killset · June 2017

Jawasa wrote: »

What i mean is that just playing a stamina nb i meta. Bone pirate, shackel and vma weapon or the set that gives you regen when not moving in stealth are all super strong.

Stamina nb are 50% of all players in bg's. They do not need to play as warriors at all you have shade and cloak plus all the stamina survival skills.

This isn't even remotely true.

Qbiken · June 2017

Magıc wrote: »

Ganking is the most cancerous aspect of PVP.

Stamblade is the meta. Even non proc stamblades are stronger than all other classes if in the right hands.

And I'll repeat: Ganking is the most cancerous aspect of PVP.

Calling ganking cancer while running around in a destroultzerg ball 100% of the time (joke tho) lol xD

Derra · June 2017

I don´t think stalking for minutes while waiting for the opportunity to oneshot a target (how squishy or not they may be) has a place in a mmo type of game.It´s mutually exclusive fun for the executioner.

Combos that can oneshot a player should always be telegraphed to allow for counterplay.

I don´t think permanent stealth should exist without drawbacks at all - like it does in eso.

Jawasa · June 2017

@Killset what part of it? I often play vs 4 nb teams in bg's. And most people i play with see mostly nb. I mostly solo join so that might be part of it. A team of 4 players will prob be diffrent.

Killset · June 2017

Claiming 50% of all players in battlegrounds are stamblades would imply you have played in every single BG match, on every platform, since Morrowind's launch, or you have some mystical ability to always know the exact BG population. More likely you are inventing a number to support your argument. I generally see 2-3 per BG match thus far.

Chilly-McFreeze · June 2017

I don't really see the problem either. If I run on my stam sorc in 5h/2m with 2300 crit resist I still recieve ganks for over 20k. Sure, my char hasn't 30k health but that doesn't matter. 20k are 20k. Lately I got caught unaware on my offensive bar and had someone do close to 24k before I could react. Without proc sets.

3k prismatic glyph, 8K heavy bow, 4K poison injection and nearly 9k incap. He surely was build for this but hey, that is what you have to do.

IlCanis_LupuslI · June 2017

Cause if ganking were strong everyone would be a ganker. You have to make its difficult cause otherwise everybody will run it and destroy the game effectively.
Imagine stamblade getting a mechanic to instakill anyone. I guarantee you in 2 weeks everybody would only play stamblade

Zvorgin · June 2017

Being able to do massive burst from stealth and immediately return to stealth is what is amateur.

Jawasa · June 2017

So still the most played class? Point is nb was not destroyed by the changes and a lot of other changes buffed the nb playstyle. Because of that a lot of players comeback to nb or rerolled one.

Linken · June 2017

TheRealSniker wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

I have no issue with players being able to kill other players extremely fast just like I have no issue with players being able to tank entire zergs. It's what they were built to do. Both are unable to do other things and have serious drawbacks to achieve those goals.

@TheRealSniker I think the idea behind the stealth damage nerf was to give players the chance to react to your damage. "1 shots" are still possible after the update, just a bit harder. If anything, you may just have to commit to your kills a bit more now such as Gap Close and Execute to finish the kill whereas before you would have already Cloaked and ran away.

Related: I believe Radiant Magelight also lost is Stealth Damage reduction and retained only the prevention of the stun. So you should actually be hitting targets who run that skill with the same amount of damage as before.

Problem is that most builds who are not built to one shot can just roll out, heal or just shield up and be completely invincible to anything we do after since we are not built to Face to Face somebody. Which leaves us only with one Option, building sustain and becoming a Warrior or run Proc Sets and become a ProcTard.

This is not a change that would give people a Chance, it is an annihilation to the Playstyle since almost every other build is running insane survive abilities that can be cast in milliseconds.

Or Maybe you should accept that you failed that assasination and go back to the shadows and try again later or switch target.
You are telling me you are building for assasination and dont want to go the warrior way then stay in the shadows and do the kills you do and accept that you cant kill every1 cause you are indeed an assasin not a massmurdering titan steamrolling Cyrodill.....

+ Somewhere that Rikkon guy or whatever that did all those nerf NB thread are playing a diffrent game and laughing at your misfortune

Merlin13KAGL · June 2017

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Which means you're still getting a minimum 150% normal damage before mitigation vs the 175% you were getting before, all while being completely undetected.

I say again, what do you have to complain about...

it was 200% from sneak + 30% lost from Heavy attacks, our appareantly OP mechanic "guaranteed crit" feels useless with the amount of impen every player is running.

Which makes the point all the more valid.

Why do you suppose all that obligatory impen gear came about in the first place?

Being able to shadowy disguise indefinitely pre-combat is powerful in its own right. What real penalty did you get for being seen, honestly, other than the brief window of opportunity to place damage and keep you from going back into the shadows?

There should allways be the option for counterplay, otherwise it's always a one-sided fight.

MalakithAlamahdi · June 2017

The way cloak works in this game makes being a ganker complete cheese on it's own already. It's almost completely safe to start a gank since you can simply cloak away if you fail with very little counter play to it. The radius of stealth detection skills is *** poor and doesn't even work most of the time. Glad they did something to the free damage, now you actually need to put a little bit of effort into ganking people.

Juhasow · June 2017

Derra wrote: »

I don´t think stalking for minutes while waiting for the opportunity to oneshot a target (how squishy or not they may be) has a place in a mmo type of game.It´s mutually exclusive fun for the executioner.

Combos that can oneshot a player should always be telegraphed to allow for counterplay.

I don´t think permanent stealth should exist without drawbacks at all - like it does in eso.

Excatly. Other games gives some downsides to perma invisibility , like You can just use it just outside of combat or You get healing debuff while You're invisible and dissapearing from fight have cooldowns and drawbacks like reducing all DoT's dmg and debuffs that are applied to enemie. Also in other MMO's I've played ganker is not one shotting enemeis with few seconds gap between kills but just have nice opener that gives him adventage over not prepared enemies in fight after opening , when in ESO opening a fight is in many cases also ending it and You can just do it over and over. Game that doesnt have a cooldowns should have higher drawbacks to certain playstyles and setups.