VMA Is WAY Harder Than Dark Souls Now

Ch4mpTW · June 2017

I called myself going into VMA since Morrowind has gone live on console, and OMFG... The amount of pressure and stress there is ridiculous. I agree that before Morrowind came along, the content was rather easy. But not anymore. Not by a long shot.

Mind you, this is coming from someone who: Has Flawless Conqueror on all their characters (except for the Wardens), has completed VMoL numerous times, has both the Shadows of the Hist skins, and is a massive fanboy of Dark Souls 3 and Bloodboirne. Plus has beaten all Mega Man and Devil May Cry games. I've even completed all Ninja Gaiden games. But VMA is giving me a huge run for my money currently. I'm doing it on my MagDK, and am struggling hard on the final boss of Stage 9. I've literally lost all my vitality to this boss, and have gone through at least 130 pots. Lol.

As a heads up, I would NOT attempt VMA if you didn't complete it prior to Morrowind. Some may tell you otherwise, but I strongly would recommend that you don't. I have 708 CP currently, and this is really throwing me through a loop. There's just too much going on at once, but what makes it so hard is sustaining.

Vamp MagDK in 5pcs. BSW, 2pcs. Skoria (for the health and single target damage), Maelstrom Inferno front bar and Maelstrom Restoration back bar. Spell damage glyphs on all jewelry. Will post screen shot of my stats when I'm done trying, or when I beat it (if I beat it).

Ffastyl · June 2017

This just makes it more worthwhile to attempt.

Glamdring · June 2017

It takes a little longer time to complete it now and i die a few times more. The difference aint that big, and this is comming from someone that just cleared vma for the first time a month ago.

Cocorocho · June 2017

For some reason i find it pretty hard with Mag DK maybe its just me but on other classes it still feels the same just a little bit slower due to resources

Doctordarkspawn · June 2017

Ffastyl wrote: »

This just makes it more worthwhile to attempt.

Speak for yourself.

Most people, dont equate frustration with fun.

Ch4mpTW · June 2017

So I just completed it actually with my MagDK a few moments after posting this thread, and got a 373,734 score. Lmao. My best score with my MagDK is a 502,550 prior to Morrowind. How people are pushing 500k scores post-Morrowind is beyond me, as sustain was hit INCREDIBlY hard. And trust me when I say, you'll feel it. I know for a fact I'm going to have to swap my spell damage glyphs for cost reduction or recovery glyphs, and make many more changes.

Faulgor · June 2017

Wasn't it always? I spent way more time in the frozen rink than against the Nameless King ...

WhiteMage · June 2017

I consider myself an honorary flawless conqueror... pre-morrowind I got the final boss to 20k health before my first death. That was rage-inducing... anyway vMA is incredibly frustrating after morrowind. I died many times getting to stage 9 but mostly out of pure laziness. The final boss was very, very difficult though. I had a lot of trouble after destroying the 3 crystals. That usually took most of my resources, but after you get knocked down you really have to pick up and get going with the fight. Having nearly no resources from the above area, coming down was just a mess. I probably died 15 times from that, and I felt like I was doing vMA for the first time all over again.

Did you know your score can go down after finishing the final boss? That was news to me lol. The whole thing was worth it to get on the leaderboard, ofc. There were only 52 templars last week that completed it so easy gold stuff.

Ch4mpTW · June 2017

WhiteMage wrote: »

I consider myself an honorary flawless conqueror... pre-morrowind I got the final boss to 20k health before my first death. That was rage-inducing... anyway vMA is incredibly frustrating after morrowind. I died many times getting to stage 9 but mostly out of pure laziness. The final boss was very, very difficult though. I had a lot of trouble after destroying the 3 crystals. That usually took most of my resources, but after you get knocked down you really have to pick up and get going with the fight. Having nearly no resources from the above area, coming down was just a mess. I probably died 15 times from that, and I felt like I was doing vMA for the first time all over again.

Did you know your score can go down after finishing the final boss? That was news to me lol. The whole thing was worth it to get on the leaderboard, ofc. There were only 52 templars last week that completed it so easy gold stuff.

Yup! Same here, except I had 5 lives left when I beat it (as you see it in the caps). Granted that MagDK is the class that took me the longest to get Flawless Conqueror with, and that I feel VMA is the hardest to with — VMA is on a whole other level now.

And you got it spot-on about being burned out of resources once dropping down from the second phase (crystal phase). I could easily get to that part no problem. I could handle the crystals with ease as well (ignoring the strain on resources). But once you drop down, and the boss starts firing that volley off that you gotta interrupt... Plus grab the gold ghost, and deal with the summoner who walks to the center... Things go from 0 to 100 real quick.

I'm so appreciative and thankful for my experience with that content prior to Morrowind, as I knew what to expect (to a degree). I knew the mechanics and the score with the things I was up against. The hard part is just sustaining, dodging trickery, and staying cool-headed.

Ugh... That score tho'. That embarrassing score tho'...

Ohhgrizyyy · June 2017

Well a guildie of mine got on today on PS4 and ran a 2h/bow stam dk and got a flawless and his best score ever so...Meh doubt it.

Olupajmibanan · June 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

So I just completed it actually with my MagDK a few moments after posting this thread, and got a 373,734 score. Lmao. My best score with my MagDK is a 502,550 prior to Morrowind. How people are pushing 500k scores post-Morrowind is beyond me, as sustain was hit INCREDIBlY hard. And trust me when I say, you'll feel it. I know for a fact I'm going to have to swap my spell damage glyphs for cost reduction or recovery glyphs, and make many more changes.

MagDK here, 501k post Morrowind.
Can sustain just fine. Using one Mag recovery glyph and most importantly Witchmother Potent Brew drink. That drink makes miracles, you just have to adjust your health accordingly. With the Destro Staff passive, Arcane Well CP passive and the sustain adjustments mentioned above my sustain is more than satisfying. And I am not even bringing the fact that I don't use Elemental Drain.

Qbiken · June 2017

Mag and stamina sorcerer are still easy mode in vMSA.

My main magicka templar however have had some issues trying to get the same scores as pre-Morrowind. Sitting at 510k-ish atm, compared to my 540k-ish pre-Morrowind. On my sorccharacter the scores are still the same as Before the morrowind patch. ´Didn´t even need to change gear/setup on my sorcs :P

sickboy2808 · June 2017

Still cant get past round 4. Im so baaad at this game its a wonder why i still play it

Krayzie · June 2017

I can complete every game in the souls series including bloodbourne in 5hours +/-

Take it from me, both are incredibly easy.

Try protecting the curie in MGS VR missions and tell me VMA/Souls is hard....

Makes me sick to see what difficulty has become nowadays, holding everyones hand.

Try playing Alien Isolation on hard and tell me VMA is difficult.

Not having as much sustain doesn't mean it is hard, readjust your build.

Franieck · June 2017

Than dark souls? sure. Than dark souls 3? undoubtedly. Than Dark Souls Softs, *** ivory king DLC? HELLZ NO BRODA! that *** still gives me nightmares!

For VMA you can still be a no-social life meta-build dogmatist and you're gonna be fine, those bloody horses followed by these twin cat bosses on the other-hand....abandon all hope.

Ch4mpTW · June 2017

Krayzie wrote: »

I can complete every game in the souls series including bloodbourne in 5hours +/-

Take it from me, both are incredibly easy.

Try protecting the curie in MGS VR missions and tell me VMA/Souls is hard....

Makes me sick to see what difficulty has become nowadays, holding everyones hand.

Try playing Alien Isolation on hard and tell me VMA is difficult.

Not having as much sustain doesn't mean it is hard, readjust your build.

Games as a whole are indeed much easier. As I said, I'm a HUGE fan for challenging stuff. Bloodbourne, Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry, Castlevania, Mega Man (can't wait for Anniversary Collection 2 in August), and so on. But in my opinion, VMA is now harder than Dark Souls games. Lol. It could be because I used my MagDK instead of my main (MagSorc) or StamDK (significantly easier than MagDK). Or it could be that I haven't switched foods (I'm still using max health and magicka). Who knows? But what I do know, is that to me? It's significantly harder now. And I also know that I have a lot of tweaking and adjustments to make.

GilGalad · June 2017

vMA was way harder when it came out. You had much less CP, worse gear and no one to give you advice on how to beat the mechanics. Completing a run in less than 60 mins was not very common. If it was possible to clear vMA with 5 TBS, 3 Willpower and 3 Torugs pact, then it should still be easy now, since you can get gear setups with more sustain and more dmg.

Slightly adjust your build and playstyle and you should be fine. Try to hit full heavy attacks on every portal spawn, let your wall of elements or staff attacks kill mobs for the passive return and mix in heavy attacks in boss fights when all dots are running.

F7sus4 · June 2017

As a big fan and long-term hardcore player of DS series myself I cannot fully agree with you. I see where you're going with the conclussion but I'd say it's completely different kind of experience especially knowing how combat systems in both games work. No vMSA experience will also cover the struggle from bonfire-to-bonfire in DS1 - just an example. In ESO it's like taking a few steps back where something goes wrong. The punishment isn't as nasty and unexpected as in any DS (boss) fight. And if you wipe - frustrated or not - you simply repeat a small single step. Really small one.

Speaking of vMSA. It's all about experience and frustration we manage to leave behind to get better at it. Applies to everything.

Kudos!

Vapirko · June 2017

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Well a guildie of mine got on today on PS4 and ran a 2h/bow stam dk and got a flawless and his best score ever so...Meh doubt it.

Build?

Qbiken · June 2017

GilGalad wrote: »

vMA was way harder when it came out. You had much less CP, worse gear and no one to give you advice on how to beat the mechanics. Completing a run in less than 60 mins was not very common. If it was possible to clear vMA with 5 TBS, 3 Willpower and 3 Torugs pact, then it should still be easy now, since you can get gear setups with more sustain and more dmg.

Slightly adjust your build and playstyle and you should be fine. Try to hit full heavy attacks on every portal spawn, let your wall of elements or staff attacks kill mobs for the passive return and mix in heavy attacks in boss fights when all dots are running.

The biggest chance to the increased score IMO was when they changed how the minor slayer passive worked (new sets /and procsets did their thing as well, not neglecting that). Not sure which patch it was but the Minor slayer passive (from using certain gear) didn´t Always used to work in vma.

RoyJade · June 2017

Curiously, I find vMA a little easier than before with my stamsorc and my stamblade. I put a few ore burst damage thanks to master at arm, and then new ironclad let me survive to some one shot or two shots combo with ease. I have exactly the same gear as before (5 VO, 5 NMG, 2 selene or stormfist), 16k5 health, damage glyphs, no poison, no crafted potions and classic health/stamina food. First try, first time I played them since Morrowind, 500k points. A few less than my previous scores, but still good.

On an other hand, magDK has alway have a hard time in vMA.

Ch4mpTW · June 2017

Vapirko wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Well a guildie of mine got on today on PS4 and ran a 2h/bow stam dk and got a flawless and his best score ever so...Meh doubt it.

Build?

Agreed. Not only that, but I've not heard of anyone on PS4-NA flawlessing VMA since Morrowind dropped. I've been asking around as well if anyone knows of anyone doing it, and everyone I've spoken to about it said they can't believe a Flawless so soon.

Elvenpath · June 2017

Nothing changed for me its still pretty easy and doable in 30 - 40 mins, i think this is an L2P issue like there isn't thousand of them.

slumber_sandb16_ESO · June 2017

Difference is as a tank in Dark Souls I can still complete the content.

schroed360 · June 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Well a guildie of mine got on today on PS4 and ran a 2h/bow stam dk and got a flawless and his best score ever so...Meh doubt it.

Build?

Agreed. Not only that, but I've not heard of anyone on PS4-NA flawlessing VMA since Morrowind dropped. I've been asking around as well if anyone knows of anyone doing it, and everyone I've spoken to about it said they can't believe a Flawless so soon.

Don t know for ps4 but i know that i have done 2 flawless run after morrowind dropped. One on stamplar and one on magplar. Those were my two last character( except warden obviously) that needed it and i was also affraid of not being able to do it but turns out... It felt easier in some way since you can achieve more burst but at the same time needed à bit of ressource managment.
Note those run were done with good mitigation build for stam and good sustain for magika so a low score just a bit over 400k.

Mordenkainen · June 2017

Difference is, learning dark souls was fun back then.

vMA is just cancer incarnate. And for those who actually get through, then there's the RNG wall.

BigBadVolk · June 2017

For me its ye a little bit harder, but only becauese of the red tree nerf, my first time there I used one magicka recovery glyph and it was actually fine (with magNB). Right now I'm doing it with 3 spell damage enchants and instead of infallible I run it with moondancer (that extra 1k magicka worth it for some reason

).
Right now I'm sitting with a 576k score and I just finished vMA 3 months ago.

Jeremy · June 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I called myself going into VMA since Morrowind has gone live on console, and OMFG... The amount of pressure and stress there is ridiculous. I agree that before Morrowind came along, the content was rather easy. But not anymore. Not by a long shot.

Mind you, this is coming from someone who: Has Flawless Conqueror on all their characters (except for the Wardens), has completed VMoL numerous times, has both the Shadows of the Hist skins, and is a massive fanboy of Dark Souls 3 and Bloodboirne. Plus has beaten all Mega Man and Devil May Cry games. I've even completed all Ninja Gaiden games. But VMA is giving me a huge run for my money currently. I'm doing it on my MagDK, and am struggling hard on the final boss of Stage 9. I've literally lost all my vitality to this boss, and have gone through at least 130 pots. Lol.

As a heads up, I would NOT attempt VMA if you didn't complete it prior to Morrowind. Some may tell you otherwise, but I strongly would recommend that you don't. I have 708 CP currently, and this is really throwing me through a loop. There's just too much going on at once, but what makes it so hard is sustaining.

Vamp MagDK in 5pcs. BSW, 2pcs. Skoria (for the health and single target damage), Maelstrom Inferno front bar and Maelstrom Restoration back bar. Spell damage glyphs on all jewelry. Will post screen shot of my stats when I'm done trying, or when I beat it (if I beat it).

Well that's good to know - because even before Morrowind I found VMA to be too annoying and frustrating to be worth the effort. So I should probably avoid it like the plague now.

Unfortunately though that Maelstrom Restoration Staff is going to be even more tempting to try for considering the game's current state. So I'll probably break down and put myself through the hell a few more times before I re-lean my lesson.

I've always hated scripted game play that relies on cheesy one-shot mechanics and dps races to create the illusion of challenge when in fact they are really just tailored toward specific fighting patterns and builds. I prefer game play that rewards ingenuity whether than conformity.

laksikus · June 2017

I have done it several times ok PC since morrowind. And Not Too much feels different.
Even my round times are getting closer and closer to what they were before every time i do it.

Sure i have to fully Charge HA at ist he beginning of each stage, but i Medium weaved there before, so again Not much change.

To flawless: cant say its harder now, i even get more resistance from cp. My deaths are still stupid deaths like before, not that i care much about flawless, i get more points for time than flawless anyway.

And dark souls is way harder and unforgiving than msa

DDemon · June 2017

I am actually experiencing it differently. I got Flawless conquerer on my NB the other day, using almost the exact same build as pre morrowind. Although I do have to say that Magblade has it a little bit easier on the sustain, you need need to keep a close eye on resources. As for the time it took for me, I didn't really pay attention, I did get a 530k score though.

I also completed it on my mag sorc, and strugled a little bit more with resources, but completed it with 2 deaths nontheless.

Overall I feel like the damage reduction CP changes give you a little extra time to react to high damage, and I have yet to experience a true 1 shot, other than the poison stage rage.

sigsergv · June 2017

VMA is (and was) so hard for me (casual player) so it basically doesn't exist. And I'm absolutely fine with that! True endgame is not supposed to be beaten by everyone, now it's just more endendgame and this is ok.