Light Attack Damage Double-Dips in CP? (Morrowind)

GrumpyDuckling · June 2017

1) Master-at-arms
"This passive ability now increases your damage done with direct damage attacks, instead of increasing your Light and Heavy Attack damage with Bows."

2) Physical Weapon Expert
"This passive ability now also increases your Light and Heavy Attack damage with Bows, along with all other Stamina-based weapons."

So does this mean that light attacks can now double-dip with Master-at-arms and Physical Weapon Expert (assuming that light attacks are considered direct damage)? If the double dip is true, then that along with the "Increased the damage of Light Attacks by 15%" buff seems like a pretty nice change for light attack damage.

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2017

It always did.
All attacks have multiple damage types. There is the damage being physical or magic or flame...etc. On top of that, every attack is either direct or damage over time or ground targeted(possibly separate from the first two) and also AoE or single target(so the new destruction staff passives can differentiate skills).

Take staff attacks for example. Restoration staves are magic damage and destruction staves are elemental damage so they benefit from Elemental Expert in the apprentice constellation as well as the staff damage increase CP in the atronach constellation.
This is nothing new.

GrumpyDuckling · June 2017

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

It always did.
All attacks have multiple damage types. There is the damage being physical or magic or flame...etc. On top of that, every attack is either direct or damage over time or ground targeted(possibly separate from the first two) and also AoE or single target(so the new destruction staff passives can differentiate skills).

Take staff attacks for example. Restoration staves are magic damage and destruction staves are elemental damage so they benefit from Elemental Expert in the apprentice constellation as well as the staff damage increase CP in the atronach constellation.
This is nothing new.

Isn't Master-at-arms new? So it would actually be a triple-dip, now? For example, bow light attacks:

- Mighty (physical damage)
- Master-at-arms (direct damage)
- Physical weapon expert (light attacks)

theamazingx · June 2017

All recent tests that I'm aware of have shown that Master At Arms does not affect light/heavy attacks.

GrumpyDuckling · June 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

All recent tests that I'm aware of have shown that Master At Arms does not affect light/heavy attacks.

If those tests hold true, that seems like an oversight by ZOS. Light attacks are direct damage.

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2017

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Isn't Master-at-arms new? So it would actually be a triple-dip, now? For example, bow light attacks:

- Mighty (physical damage)
- Master-at-arms (direct damage)
- Physical weapon expert (light attacks)

Except that all sorts of skills and other weapons also benefit from the buffs to direct damage/damage over time from the new passives.
I'm just saying they always had multiple champion passives that would buff them.

Technically, you can boil everything down to just "health and damage" and every secondary stat such as damage type and critical chance and critical damage and resistance and healing and "fake health" shields and everything else is just false complexity to make it more challenging to get powerful and try to avoid boring the player. They're all "double-dipping".

Izaki · June 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

All recent tests that I'm aware of have shown that Master At Arms does not affect light/heavy attacks.

Mind sharing these tests?

SodanTok · June 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

All recent tests that I'm aware of have shown that Master At Arms does not affect light/heavy attacks.

Mind sharing these tests?

Just tested it myself (on PTS for the record) and Master At Arms did buff light/heavy (of bow for the record)

Gilvoth · June 2017

keep in mind that bow has the weakest light atack of all the weapons.
i dont use bow because i think bow is weak.

paulsimonps · June 2017

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

keep in mind that bow has the weakest light atack of all the weapons.
i dont use bow because i think bow is weak.

In PvE you can't be stam without using the bow if you want to pull good numbers, but I don't ever think I've seen anyone really light attack with it, not that it matters, its not for the light attack we use it.

SodanTok · June 2017

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

keep in mind that bow has the weakest light atack of all the weapons.
i dont use bow because i think bow is weak.

Keep in mind bow light attack gets up to 37% bonus damage from passives. But I would agree it is weakest because light/heavy are based on weapon damage and bow has the lowest of all weapons.

Gilvoth · June 2017

eso is the only mmo i have played that bow was on the lowest and weakest damage list.
infact, what i am used to in mmo is the bow being the most feared of all because you get 2 shot and sometimes just 1 shot from stealth.
now in eso, yes people get sniped, but not anywhere near as bad as other mmo's i have played.
because in eso it usually takes around 4 shots to kill you. not 1. [usually]

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2017

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

eso is the only mmo i have played that bow was on the lowest and weakest damage list.
infact, what i am used to in mmo is the bow being the most feared of all because you get 2 shot and sometimes just 1 shot from stealth.
now in eso, yes people get sniped, but not anywhere near as bad as other mmo's i have played.
because in eso it usually takes around 4 shots to kill you. not 1. [usually]

PVP is always different and rarely does a game get it right. In fact, I've never seen it done right to where it was fair and fun outside of first person shooter games. It definitely isn't fun in a game that helps you target and guarantees a hit to be "1 shot" or anywhere close.

Everything else....
Bow is not the strongest weapon in physics for reality or any game hoping to be realistic or immersive. It doesn't have as much mass as a physical cutting/bashing weapon in close range. It doesn't have the energy level likely attributed to magic.
Bow is on the mid-range on the mass calculations and on the low end for the energy applied. This is why it is ranged as ranged weapons need to be light enough to travel to target yet strong enough to do enough damage.

theamazingx · June 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

All recent tests that I'm aware of have shown that Master At Arms does not affect light/heavy attacks.

Mind sharing these tests?

Just tested it myself (on PTS for the record) and Master At Arms did buff light/heavy (of bow for the record)

It's my understanding that it was changed on live for the express purpose of not having them double dip. I'll test on live later, shouldn't take more than a minute.

SodanTok · June 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

All recent tests that I'm aware of have shown that Master At Arms does not affect light/heavy attacks.

Mind sharing these tests?

Just tested it myself (on PTS for the record) and Master At Arms did buff light/heavy (of bow for the record)

It's my understanding that it was changed on live for the express purpose of not having them double dip. I'll test on live later, shouldn't take more than a minute.

Never heard a reason why would that be a problem. And the PTS version should be same as live and/or it should be noted in patch notes. All attacks already double dip. True, light/heavy now triple dip, but CP defense against them is triple too.