People tend to jump the bandwagon. Stam Sorcs used to be stronger than they are now. 75% Hurricane damage nerf and 40% dark deal time increase toned these skills down to being "in line" - there are better options. You can't play a sSorc like other classes. You need to understand the strength of your class, so look at what sSorcs got going for them.

Streak/ BoL let's you play out your mobility, especially when you LoS people or to get off Dark Deal, which can give you an edge regenwise, but like I said it became rather clunky. Don't use this if you are constantly pressured without LoS. The cast time is too long to outheal anything with it. So either LoS before d/d or (if there are only few opponents) cc 'em with streak or use the 1H&S ultimate to get off some d/d in a row. Otherwise you might be better of with a bow HA that does damage, restores a large chunck of stam and can't be interrupted.

Surge is still great, especially if you aren't running 2H or brutality pots, also the occassionally healing is nice. But to fully utilize that you need comparable high crit chance and you definitly need to put up the pressure. How do you do this? At best with Hurricane. Dmg got nerfed by a large margin but I see it more of an defensive/utility skill. You get the mitigation, speed and the costant AoE which will get of some crits eventually. But you need to stay on them, be aggressive. Pared with Vigor and Rally will get you some good HPS.
When you are comfortable in using d/d you may want to swap out serpent mundus to thief for extra dmg + heals.

If you're into heavy attacking you might want to add Bound Armaments for the dmg increase + max stats.

But on the other hand, what really bothers me is the complete lack of offensive stamina class skills. Be it target-bound DoTs, target-focused gap closer, execute or burst. sSorcs got nothing- You strongly rely on weapon and guild skills what hurts variability.

However, I don't think sSorcs are OP. They are good but not OP. I main one, so maybe I'm biased but I never had a problem to finish off another stam Sorcs. Biggest headaches I get are from DK and mSorcs.

Baker of Cakes has a similar build to what you have in mind.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=c3yD0KtThz8

While it may work for him I couldn't use this since you are very squishy in medium armor and, what is the far bigger problem for me, I use d/d when I run out of stam, so I've got no resources for sprinting anyway.

Right, d/d is dark deal.
And you can't use any skill while sprinting. Problem is, why should I use d/d if I'm not in (forseable) need of stam. Therefor I wouldn't have stam left to sprint. But this isn't the playstyle I'm heading for anyway so give it a go, prisoner's rags is surely interesting.

StamSorc is THE strongest class in No CP. There is no contest, if you have the right (and most cancerous) build.

Trashs1 wrote: »

and what build is this?

Heavy armor set, viper, tremorscale, resource poisons

raasdal wrote: »

StamSorc is THE strongest class in No CP. There is no contest, if you have the right (and most cancerous) build.

It's not even about having a cancerous build. StamSorc can run very little sustain thanks to Dark Deal, has an auto RNG execute in Implosion, increased physical damage passive, -15% DBoS cost, mobility, and constant pressure from Hurricane.

Biro123 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

and what build is this?

Heavy armor set, viper, tremorscale, resource poisons

Why would this make stamsorc stronger than any other class running the same kind of setup?

Because stam sorc has better mobility, increased damage and better sustain than the other classes

Biro123 wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

StamSorc is THE strongest class in No CP. There is no contest, if you have the right (and most cancerous) build.

It's not even about having a cancerous build. StamSorc can run very little sustain thanks to Dark Deal, has an auto RNG execute in Implosion, increased physical damage passive, -15% DBoS cost, mobility, and constant pressure from Hurricane.

And what do other classes bring?

Its been proven that NB's ulti return outclasses sorcs ulti cost reduction.
Dark deal has had a nerf - and needs to be sustained itself (more difficult with constitution nerf). DK needs little sustain - just tons of ulti-gain
Implosion is pants - when it goes off, target is almost always dead anyway.
Mobility - to run away and reset after failing to beat your opponent, then come back to fail again..? Although I imagine its useful for running flags etc.. But builds specifically made for speed an any class will be superior for that.

Honestly, I've not tried them in BG's but in every other content they've been nerfed to mediocrity.

Yeah ok whatever you say bro

Stam Sorcs are the no CP God mode. Hurricane, a move (while not nearly as strong as it used to be) that can actively run while you do other moves. Imagine how good a Magplar would be if they could have almost 100% uptime on Grothdarr. Moves in this game that can be cast and then still allow you to do other moves are what truly imbalances things.

Biro123 wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

StamSorc is THE strongest class in No CP. There is no contest, if you have the right (and most cancerous) build.

It's not even about having a cancerous build. StamSorc can run very little sustain thanks to Dark Deal, has an auto RNG execute in Implosion, increased physical damage passive, -15% DBoS cost, mobility, and constant pressure from Hurricane.

And what do other classes bring?

Its been proven that NB's ulti return outclasses sorcs ulti cost reduction.
Dark deal has had a nerf - and needs to be sustained itself (more difficult with constitution nerf). DK needs little sustain - just tons of ulti-gain
Implosion is pants - when it goes off, target is almost always dead anyway.
Mobility - to run away and reset after failing to beat your opponent, then come back to fail again..? Although I imagine its useful for running flags etc.. But builds specifically made for speed an any class will be superior for that.

Honestly, I've not tried them in BG's but in every other content they've been nerfed to mediocrity.

That's only true between magsorc and magblade. Stam sorc ultimate reduction is better than stamblades ultimate generation. To get that ultimate generation a Stamblade needs to spam siphoning abilities. What ability in that tree will a Stamblade spam?None let's compare stam to Stam and not magic to Stam to confuse the argument.

Even with the constitution nerf and Dark deal Nerf it still one of the best sustain tools that cost you nothing if interrupted. Also still need sustain for when they don't have ultimate.Not to mentioned you can get more resources back dark dealing than dropping a ultimate every 15seconds .

Implosion is only bad on a Magsorc because your instant dead when you reach 20% health.Its pretty good on a Stan sorc.Can help finish some players off.

When it comes to mobility in general combat its handy in open world as a stam class if you can't move your usually dead.

Stam sorc still one of the best Stam class.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Stam Sorcs are the no CP God mode. Hurricane, a move (while not nearly as strong as it used to be) that can actively run while you do other moves. Imagine how good a Magplar would be if they could have almost 100% uptime on Grothdarr. Moves in this game that can be cast and then still allow you to do other moves are what truly imbalances things.

Like every other DoT in this game?

KingJ wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

StamSorc is THE strongest class in No CP. There is no contest, if you have the right (and most cancerous) build.

It's not even about having a cancerous build. StamSorc can run very little sustain thanks to Dark Deal, has an auto RNG execute in Implosion, increased physical damage passive, -15% DBoS cost, mobility, and constant pressure from Hurricane.

And what do other classes bring?

Its been proven that NB's ulti return outclasses sorcs ulti cost reduction.
Dark deal has had a nerf - and needs to be sustained itself (more difficult with constitution nerf). DK needs little sustain - just tons of ulti-gain
Implosion is pants - when it goes off, target is almost always dead anyway.
Mobility - to run away and reset after failing to beat your opponent, then come back to fail again..? Although I imagine its useful for running flags etc.. But builds specifically made for speed an any class will be superior for that.

Honestly, I've not tried them in BG's but in every other content they've been nerfed to mediocrity.

That's only true between magsorc and magblade. Stam sorc ultimate reduction is better than stamblades ultimate generation. To get that ultimate generation a Stamblade needs to spam siphoning abilities. What ability in that tree will a Stamblade spam?None let's compare stam to Stam and not magic to Stam to confuse the argument.

Even with the constitution nerf and Dark deal Nerf it still one of the best sustain tools that cost you nothing if interrupted. Also still need sustain for when they don't have ultimate.Not to mentioned you can get more resources back dark dealing than dropping a ultimate every 15seconds .

Implosion is only bad on a Magsorc because your instant dead when you reach 20% health.Its pretty good on a Stan sorc.Can help finish some players off.

When it comes to mobility in general combat its handy in open world as a stam class if you can't move your usually dead.

Stam sorc still one of the best Stam class.

Nobody argued that sSorcs aren't good. The question was why they are seen as OP. They recieved nerfs, hardest ones were d/d and hurricane. From all what I read in older posts, up until last year sS were an afterthought. With changes to Hurricane, d/d and Stam boosts in general they became viable. Now both skills are toned down again. If you don't run a Sorc regulary, you probably won't understand how clunky d/d is now.

Also, in your remarks about ulti gain you (at least I hope) forgot to mention NB's Catalyst passive. 20 Ultimate for consuming a potion are a lot if your class defining Ult only needs 70.

As for the Implosion, yes it CAN help. But most of the times it's pure overkill. Without giving value to the marginal 6% chance it demands that you deal physical damage - not bleed, not poison DoT, but a real physical dmg like wrecking blow, crit rush, heavy attacks, reverse slice - to an enemy that has lower than 15% of his max health left. 15% of 25K are 3,75K. All of the mentioned skills would have finished that opponent off anyway. The only "issue" might be the DoT from Hurricane, that goes off once every second for what? 1K dmg at best - mind other DoTs like bleed, Poison Injections executing DoT and everything else you throw out in that time. So yes, it can be a rng execute. But that's mostly bad luck (6%) or probably deserved if you sit long enough under 15%. A garantueed vipers proc would do the same and more reliably over the whole course of the match.
Edit: Also mind that Implosion does not scale with your max magicka or max stamina but only with your max health.

That said I wouldn't mind if Implosion would be changed to something realiably and usefull for the whole fight. It was already mentioned that most passives are not unsefull on stam sorcs. Expert Mage, Implosion, Energized, Power Stone and Unholy Knowledge are what sS truly benefit from. Maybe to an extend Daedric Protetcion - but that is linked to a two bar slot filling toggle that does nothing activly - and Capacitator - 10% more mag regen of the base regen is still pretty lame. So sS are effectivly left with 1/3 of the passives.

D/D - like I said it's really clunky. You can't use it as effective as before. Higher stam costs, nerfed constitution will leave you in more frequent need to d/d. But nerfed constitution limit your d/d usage. Mind that you have to streak and keep surge up as well. Also, 1.4s cast time for 4K health won't allow you to outheal anything if you're pressured, so you can't use it as aggressive as NB's or DK's resource management, they can continue to pressure and don't have to pause the fight to d/d -that time sS LoS an opponent can be used by him to heal back up or refresh buffs, reposition etc. Therefor it's comprehensible why d/d is stronger in res return. It doesn't pressure opponents in form of dealing dmg. Throwing ultimate after ultimate to gain resources pressures opponents a lot and forces them into defense.
Also mind that no cast time skill consumes resources if it get's interrupted. I wouldn't mind if they change d/d to an resource return over time skills with an burst heal or a strong HoT as long it becomes an instant cast.

The_Conjurer wrote: »

The sorcerer's damage output is unbelievably high. The stam sorc however can be tricky to play, especially if you originally signed up to be a caster. Dual wielding will throw out the most amount of damage out.

Speaking of PvP? In PvE I agree, but 2H got a boost and there are some strong 2H Builds for PvE out there with Morrowind. For PvP DW is not the BiS or Meta.

However, I actually prefer DW in PvP because it doesn't feel as clunky as 2H. The self heal is also nice but you really have to throw out a lot of resources to get enemies down with Bloodthirst. Problems are that it offers neither a gap closer nor a real execute. Also you will struggle against groups (missing burst), Templars or anything with a Purge (cleanse of your DoTs).

So it misses the utility and burst of 2H and the utility and survivability of 1H&S. However, I do better on DW & Bow than on 2H. But that's probably the missing practise I've got in 2H compared to DW.

Its partly a Meta band wagon thing. BUT Stamina has been strong for an age now, like all last year - with Hurricane, Crit Surge and passive protection from armour they can kick ass however and survive. Its been easy mode on vMSA for a while.

Valencer wrote: »

- 5% ability cost reduction
- 10% more magicka regen
- 15% ulti cost reduction
- 5% more physical damage
- more weapon damage for every sorc ability you slot
- a built-in execute that procs off all physical damage
- an excellent resistance buff that puts significant pressure on opponents at the same time
- strong additional HoT through Surge
- great mobility through streak and unique access to minor expedition
- ability to convert magicka directly to stamina through dark deal
- great group utility because of negate.
- Optionally, sacrifice 2 bar slots for 20% more stamina regen and more max stamina. Not that useful for a solo build but definitely interesting for group builds that can sacrifice slots.

Seems pretty weak to me.

Wow. I didn't realise that sorcs were the only classes with abilities... Alright - lets go.


- 10% more magicka regen
Huge on a STAMsorc /sarcasm off.

- 15% ulti cost reduction
Less effective than the ulti regen that other classes get

- 5% more physical damage
Yes - a useful passive.

- more weapon damage for every sorc ability you slot
How many sorc abilities does a STAM sorc slot on his damage bar? They are all buffs - and sit on the buff bar.

- a built-in execute that procs off all physical damage
Already covered in the posts above. I really don't know why people cry about it.

- an excellent resistance buff that puts significant pressure on opponents at the same time
Pressure was nerfed - pretty much everyone gets a nice resistance buff that also does other stuff. But this IS the class-defining stamsorc ability.

- strong additional HoT through Surge
Good in PVE. PVP - not so with burst dmg. Also 0 access to major mending.

- great mobility through streak and unique access to minor expedition
Agree - mobility is the stamsorc's thing. Some classes just facetank everything, some disappear, some heal through it - stamsorc can run away.

- ability to convert magicka directly to stamina through dark deal
No longer a reliable source of sustain imho.. Nowadays, I think I'd honestly rather have siphoning since you can put it up and keep pressuring - or passives like helping hands and battle roar - again so you can keep up pressure while benefitting from your class sustain skills.

- great group utility because of negate.
Yes, its a nice ability in group situations - although most prefer the standard dawnbreaker..

- Optionally, sacrifice 2 bar slots for 20% more stamina regen and more max stamina. Not that useful for a solo build but definitely interesting for group builds that can sacrifice slots.
It IS a big sacrifice. I mean once you have your class-defining/mobility stuff that everyone thinks is overpowered (hurricane/surge/streak/dark-deal) - add in 2 bound armaments - throw in the staple vigour/rally so you can survive, a gap-closer, you're left with 1 slot to do damage - as long as you don't want to slot shuffle so you can remove those snares and keep your mobility... Or there's a NB who gets a flat 15% recov to all stats without having to sacrifice any slots....

I'm still not seeing what particularly makes them the standout stam class.