NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

Shacklebreaker and warmaiden on a magtemplar is pretty strong

That was a route I was gonna try too, should be easy to get. Good jewelry should be really solid. War Maiden also boosts unstable core/total dark (which is actually pretty underated)

pls no..

I'm ​gonna edit this and make it more educational.

I believe you are making the point that eclipse is not a good ability. I have the understanding that the primary arguments against this ability is the damage to cost ratio, the similarities to Curse without the same returns, and I guess the just overall lack of damage.

I'm not going to try and argue these points, however I will try and provide a base where in the majority of situations on console the ability does indeed provide a massive return of utility.

Fotm is rampant, and lends itself to be used primarily by players that are not familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of their own build. I find that many even lack the fundamental understanding of game mechanics. I.E. many do not know Eclipse reflects abilities. I have more often than not seen a sorcerer frag himself.

This also means many of these players do not have a full understanding of resource management, using eclipse (currently not after update) can drain a newer player of their stamina. Kinda moot now but still something that could have been considered.

In many instances in Cyrodiil I find a duo that typically has one player a sorcerer or NB, at times 6 seconds of inhibiting my opponent in anyway can provide an opportunity of escape or execution.

Also, while you are sacrificing a slot, you don't have to cast the ability, much like an execute (Sorcs exempt of course) the majority of the battle it's unused.

While definitely not BiS nor as useful in environments like BGs where Stam proc are fotm, this niche ability does have it's uses and gets more hate than love. While I'm at it I feel I must add that I'm in no way against buffing this ability

Waffennacht wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

Shacklebreaker and warmaiden on a magtemplar is pretty strong

That was a route I was gonna try too, should be easy to get. Good jewelry should be really solid. War Maiden also boosts unstable core/total dark (which is actually pretty underated)

pls no..

I'm ​gonna edit this and make it more educational.

I believe you are making the point that eclipse is not a good ability. I have the understanding that the primary arguments against this ability is the damage to cost ratio, the similarities to Curse without the same returns, and I guess the just overall lack of damage.

I'm not going to try and argue these points, however I will try and provide a base where in the majority of situations on console the ability does indeed provide a massive return of utility.

Fotm is rampant, and lends itself to be used primarily by players that are not familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of their own build. I find that many even lack the fundamental understanding of game mechanics. I.E. many do not know Eclipse reflects abilities. I have more often than not seen a sorcerer frag himself.

This also means many of these players do not have a full understanding of resource management, using eclipse (currently not after update) can drain a newer player of their stamina. Kinda moot now but still something that could have been considered.

In many instances in Cyrodiil I find a duo that typically has one player a sorcerer or NB, at times 6 seconds of inhibiting my opponent in anyway can provide an opportunity of escape or execution.

Also, while you are sacrificing a slot, you don't have to cast the ability, much like an execute (Sorcs exempt of course) the majority of the battle it's unused.

While definitely not BiS nor as useful in environments like BGs where Stam proc are fotm, this niche ability does have it's uses and gets more hate than love. While I'm at it I feel I must add that I'm in no way against buffing this ability

No, I'm making the point that Eclipse is annoying af and reflects 100% of destro mageblade's attacks.

.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOCCX4BEAAznv7DEGQt6vMlPqa-Pu0GXaWLehnBwPdJ6sO2_PZ2fvT433xfrnux3Q?key=ZTR2T3JnU3N3MHg4V3JtTUFxZVZLMGZBbmttRnd3

seems fine to me, that's with spell power pot i believe, but it's pretty good set imo

1 useless stats
1 double stat (reg, useful for most builds, very good stat on equip, becasue damage is better on glyphs)
these two cancel each other out

5-piece: 2000 main attrib. 2000 secondary attrib.

if you don't really use the secondary attribute, the set is terrible.

if you really need the secondary attribute, there are very few sets this good (plague doc is top with an almost 5-fold bonus as 5-peice,, necro is similar but has the pet requirement, bone pirate has been nerfed but is still strong at a 3.x fold bonus)

however, if you really need and value the secondary attribute, you should REALLY also look into hakeijos (unless you're super committed to shields for defence, these are a must) and you should use a purple food.

I guess you can argue for tri-food and for witchmother's brew, but using the blue food with shacklebreaker is just a bad idea! It means you don't really need so much of the secondary stat and you can probably do much better otherwise.

Personally, I'm quite happy with shackle+necro on warden (full hakeijo, trifood) because I can really use all the stam to sprint/block/break free for extended (yet unsustainted) periods of time. Ofc, this unsustain "burst" defence would be terrible in duels etc, but imho it wins BGs, even deathmatch, because it's a very effective protection from being focused (and I can swap to e.g. magnus+serpent mundus for duels).

On magsorc I've tried shackle+amber+witchmother's brew and I'm not all that happy with that. I think that switching towards a few hakeijos to get a decent stamina pool, might have been the better option.

tl;dr: If you have valid reasons to need both stam and mag, then and only then, shacklebreaker is great. however, using blue food or no hakeijo glyphs is very questionnable then because trifood and hakeijos are even better than shacklebreaker in that case.

@Kas actually I'd lose max magicka using war maiden because I lose the undaunted bonus unless I got 2 sharp war maiden swords and used 2/2 monster set

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

In a case to case comparison Shackle breaker provides more magicka than amberplasm or Magnus while contributing the same spell damage or more,

I suppose the idea is shackle breaker would provide more damage than Magnus or Amberplasm and still help with stamina management

Edit: yes Magnus and Amberplasm would both provide better resources, breaker provides more damage and some resource management

Shackle is outperformed by amber and it's not even close.

@NightbladeMechanics remember when you explained Leif using viper over widow by asking if I had a sharpened widow 2h?

Let's say youre a mag sorc but dont want to farm amber or alteration, now you pair shackle + spinners + slime and youve got a very workable build that require no BoP farming except slime, which is in the easiest dungeon in game.

Lets say someone is morally opposed to running proc sets, while I think that's dumb, shackle comes into consideration as BiS for Stamblade, Stam sorc, and Stam warden.

I think it depends on playstyle. I think stam regen is only better than max stam if you are dueling. For open world i find Max stam to be more beneficial for magicka users than stam regen because i need to block and dodge more frequently. I may need to block a crystal frag then immediately block a incap in that case i will need the extra stam to break free of the fear that follows. In dueling i can eat a cc with my damage shield and more easily relieve pressure so stam regen benefits me more. Honestly though i don't feel either set is really best in slot but i do feel both are viable

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

In a case to case comparison Shackle breaker provides more magicka than amberplasm or Magnus while contributing the same spell damage or more,

I suppose the idea is shackle breaker would provide more damage than Magnus or Amberplasm and still help with stamina management

Edit: yes Magnus and Amberplasm would both provide better resources, breaker provides more damage and some resource management

Shackle is outperformed by amber and it's not even close.

@NightbladeMechanics remember when you explained Leif using viper over widow by asking if I had a sharpened widow 2h?

Let's say youre a mag sorc but dont want to farm amber or alteration, now you pair shackle + spinners + slime and youve got a very workable build that require no BoP farming except slime, which is in the easiest dungeon in game.

Lets say someone is morally opposed to running proc sets, while I think that's dumb, shackle comes into consideration as BiS for Stamblade, Stam sorc, and Stam warden.

You can bet your sorc-butt I'm not farming anything lol.
I'll take the shack-spin-slime combo.

Hutch679 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

In a case to case comparison Shackle breaker provides more magicka than amberplasm or Magnus while contributing the same spell damage or more,

I suppose the idea is shackle breaker would provide more damage than Magnus or Amberplasm and still help with stamina management

Edit: yes Magnus and Amberplasm would both provide better resources, breaker provides more damage and some resource management

Shackle is outperformed by amber and it's not even close.

@NightbladeMechanics remember when you explained Leif using viper over widow by asking if I had a sharpened widow 2h?

Let's say youre a mag sorc but dont want to farm amber or alteration, now you pair shackle + spinners + slime and youve got a very workable build that require no BoP farming except slime, which is in the easiest dungeon in game.

Lets say someone is morally opposed to running proc sets, while I think that's dumb, shackle comes into consideration as BiS for Stamblade, Stam sorc, and Stam warden.

I think it depends on playstyle. I think stam regen is only better than max stam if you are dueling. For open world i find Max stam to be more beneficial for magicka users than stam regen because i need to block and dodge more frequently. I may need to block a crystal frag then immediately block a incap in that case i will need the extra stam to break free of the fear that follows. In dueling i can eat a cc with my damage shield and more easily relieve pressure so stam regen benefits me more. Honestly though i don't feel either set is really best in slot but i do feel both are viable

What would you consider best in slot for mag sorc in battlegrounds?

Probably Seducer + Amber + 1 Kena for destro. Not sure about dw, but I expect dw has greater build diversity.

Hutch679 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

In a case to case comparison Shackle breaker provides more magicka than amberplasm or Magnus while contributing the same spell damage or more,

I suppose the idea is shackle breaker would provide more damage than Magnus or Amberplasm and still help with stamina management

Edit: yes Magnus and Amberplasm would both provide better resources, breaker provides more damage and some resource management

Shackle is outperformed by amber and it's not even close.

@NightbladeMechanics remember when you explained Leif using viper over widow by asking if I had a sharpened widow 2h?

Let's say youre a mag sorc but dont want to farm amber or alteration, now you pair shackle + spinners + slime and youve got a very workable build that require no BoP farming except slime, which is in the easiest dungeon in game.

Lets say someone is morally opposed to running proc sets, while I think that's dumb, shackle comes into consideration as BiS for Stamblade, Stam sorc, and Stam warden.

I think it depends on playstyle. I think stam regen is only better than max stam if you are dueling. For open world i find Max stam to be more beneficial for magicka users than stam regen because i need to block and dodge more frequently. I may need to block a crystal frag then immediately block a incap in that case i will need the extra stam to break free of the fear that follows. In dueling i can eat a cc with my damage shield and more easily relieve pressure so stam regen benefits me more. Honestly though i don't feel either set is really best in slot but i do feel both are viable

What would you consider best in slot for mag sorc in battlegrounds?

Probably Seducer + Amber + 1 Kena for destro. Not sure about dw, but I expect dw has greater build diversity.

The amount of recovery needed is absurd. Played my first couple matches today.

Hey cool, I'm glad it's working for you! That's what I've always run in no CP. Damage is high for having that much sustain, too, because you can use tristat food, all damage glyphs, and Thief and still roll around and streak all day.

Hutch679 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

In a case to case comparison Shackle breaker provides more magicka than amberplasm or Magnus while contributing the same spell damage or more,

I suppose the idea is shackle breaker would provide more damage than Magnus or Amberplasm and still help with stamina management

Edit: yes Magnus and Amberplasm would both provide better resources, breaker provides more damage and some resource management

Shackle is outperformed by amber and it's not even close.

@NightbladeMechanics remember when you explained Leif using viper over widow by asking if I had a sharpened widow 2h?

Let's say youre a mag sorc but dont want to farm amber or alteration, now you pair shackle + spinners + slime and youve got a very workable build that require no BoP farming except slime, which is in the easiest dungeon in game.

Lets say someone is morally opposed to running proc sets, while I think that's dumb, shackle comes into consideration as BiS for Stamblade, Stam sorc, and Stam warden.

I think it depends on playstyle. I think stam regen is only better than max stam if you are dueling. For open world i find Max stam to be more beneficial for magicka users than stam regen because i need to block and dodge more frequently. I may need to block a crystal frag then immediately block a incap in that case i will need the extra stam to break free of the fear that follows. In dueling i can eat a cc with my damage shield and more easily relieve pressure so stam regen benefits me more. Honestly though i don't feel either set is really best in slot but i do feel both are viable

What would you consider best in slot for mag sorc in battlegrounds?

no recommendation but I can strongly recommend trying it out at least:

i just made a test run (purple armor, non-optimal traits, but i have a golden ring an defendign resto ^^).
4 knight slayer +1resto, 4 lich +1fire destro, 2 engine guardian. only had a noob-bg to dominate, nothing much to test there and I really want to play stamplar + warden this week. But I'll test this for sure. Probably serpent mundus, thief if engine guardian is enough (I don't think so). regular tri-food.

idea:
use resto (deadric glyph) heavy attacks for mag sustain+decent pressure+annoy people, two 5-pieces that can be completed on one bar each without much loss.

problems:
when under very heavy pressure for a long time and I do not find space for a single heavy attack, the build is objectively weak, because I: (1) waste the second 5 piece and (2) undersustain magicka without heavy attacks (lich without witch brew, full damage glyphs and no atro mundus isn't enough, even with engine guarding, i think. Because of going spelldamage+deadric glyph, I don't want to run magdrain poisons either)
small problem: I have to go heavy+med shoulder/helmet and cannot go for a heavy chest which I value very very highly. btw: the choice of armor weight is also a nice pro of the crafted shacklebreaker set

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

In a case to case comparison Shackle breaker provides more magicka than amberplasm or Magnus while contributing the same spell damage or more,

I suppose the idea is shackle breaker would provide more damage than Magnus or Amberplasm and still help with stamina management

Edit: yes Magnus and Amberplasm would both provide better resources, breaker provides more damage and some resource management

Shackle is outperformed by amber and it's not even close.

@NightbladeMechanics remember when you explained Leif using viper over widow by asking if I had a sharpened widow 2h?

Let's say youre a mag sorc but dont want to farm amber or alteration, now you pair shackle + spinners + slime and youve got a very workable build that require no BoP farming except slime, which is in the easiest dungeon in game.

Lets say someone is morally opposed to running proc sets, while I think that's dumb, shackle comes into consideration as BiS for Stamblade, Stam sorc, and Stam warden.

I think it depends on playstyle. I think stam regen is only better than max stam if you are dueling. For open world i find Max stam to be more beneficial for magicka users than stam regen because i need to block and dodge more frequently. I may need to block a crystal frag then immediately block a incap in that case i will need the extra stam to break free of the fear that follows. In dueling i can eat a cc with my damage shield and more easily relieve pressure so stam regen benefits me more. Honestly though i don't feel either set is really best in slot but i do feel both are viable

What would you consider best in slot for mag sorc in battlegrounds?

Probably Seducer + Amber + 1 Kena for destro. Not sure about dw, but I expect dw has greater build diversity.

The amount of recovery needed is absurd. Played my first couple matches today.

Hey cool, I'm glad it's working for you! That's what I've always run in no CP. Damage is high for having that much sustain, too, because you can use tristat food, all damage glyphs, and Thief and still roll around and streak all day.

Im not running with your setup though. Lol. I run with Julianos, amberplasm and vma inferno just to mess around a few games. I did great 7 kills, 5 assists, 1 death. But I consistently ran out of resources... lol

Shackle + proc set for Stam sorc seems like a really good combination.

Higher dmg than impreg + better sustain.

+ can be crafted in any type + trait.

I was not prepared for the CP that reduces Regen.

I was not prepared....

Waffennacht wrote: »

I was not prepared for the CP that reduces Regen.

I was not prepared....

Just another un-counterable stat which had a problem that was solved with gutting the CP cost reduction.