Should SKYSHARDS be made available account-wide? [Improved poll, with more options!]

burglar · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

I think adding locations on the map make sense, its like the character writes them down. However, collecting skyshards might add to the game environment, people seem to be out adventuring! Also, I think they've made leveling easy enough that the achievements should remain relatively hard. I don't think making skyshards easier helps. I feel like it would reduce the value of my main character. It took a long time to get those 300+ skills points - I sometimes feel relieved when I log on to my main character from an alt because I can spec everything I need on one character. If they were account wide, I would no doubt have every character specced for crafting and combat. Now that I think about it, wouldn't account wide skyshards screw with the economy due to how much more accessible it would be to have a char that is both ready for combat and crafting.

STEVIL · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

Tandor wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Barbara73 wrote: »

So many want "Account Wide" and an easy path of everything in the game. Then later the same people post threads on how board they are with nothing to do. The content in ESO is nearly endless so try playing it, stop crying about every little thing and if you have 20 toons to grind things for it's your fault not the Devs or all the rest of us.

Goes both ways, people that want to play alts don't want to be bothered with doing the same exact thing 2+ times just to get to where there main character was and end up quitting.

That's only true of some people that want to play alts. Others don't consider it "being bothered" and their whole rationale in playing multiple characters is to play the whole game with them just like their first character. It's the difference between those who play a game for the journey rather than just rushing to the destination.

Well, no. Wrong. just wrong.

it is not that cut and dried.

not even close.

As someone who has leveled 10 characters into vet level before cp was in place of vet levels (deleting two) and who went thru gold-silver-bronze etc with 4-5 of them fully, i can say that the sixth, seventh eighth ninth etc time you take that same identical journey, even with different characters, the new journey smell is long gone.

pretending its a simple as a type of player who "plays the game for the journey" vs a player who just wants to get to the destination is akin to the old role player vs roll player disparaging and ignores the fact that these are not all new journeys after running them so many times over.

Even with different skills and different outlooks, for many that tenth or eleventh time might not be considered reasonably "a new journey".

STEVIL · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

After various back and forth, here is where i come down on this.

i think it would be a good thing for the game if:

Any skyshard discovered by any character on an account unlocks that skyshard's location on the map for all. Every char knows where it is.
Any skyshard located in a delve or dungeon has to be gone to and accessed just like now. the closed environment and adversaries make these "accomplishments" to one degree or another. Every character has to go get their own of these closed content skyshards.
Any overland skyshard is unlocked and applied for every character when any character accesses it. travel to those is only needed once by any character not once by every character.

Some will agree, some will disagree but i think this cuts a midway between the two extremes that seems reasonable.

Tandor · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

STEVIL wrote: »

After various back and forth, here is where i come down on this.

i think it would be a good thing for the game if:
Any skyshard discovered by any character on an account unlocks that skyshard's location on the map for all. Every char knows where it is.

Any skyshard located in a delve or dungeon has to be gone to and accessed just like now. the closed environment and adversaries make these "accomplishments" to one degree or another. Every character has to go get their own of these closed content skyshards.

Any overland skyshard is unlocked and applied for every character when any character accesses it. travel to those is only needed once by any character not once by every character.

Some will agree, some will disagree but i think this cuts a midway between the two extremes that seems reasonable.

I would disagree anyway, on the basis that it's just another step on the slippery slope of dumbing down the game (like so many other MMOs before it and we know where that has led to with them) and contrary to the original style of the game, but would you at least agree that if such a change were to be made then it should be done with an off/on toggle so that those who want to develop their characters separately would still be able to do so? Of course, I would argue for such a toggle with shared dye unlocks and champion points!

Bringer · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

The problem with compromising is that we have already compromised, we have the CP system making it radically easier to make a new alt every week if thats your thing. This already damages the game because there is much less to discourage people from rolling the new identical fotm build every time the meta shifts. The inevitable conclusion of this degredation of resistive elements to making new characters is that one day everything will be account shared, and then people will start making forum threads complaining about the character delete timer, because there will be no reason to keep a character once you are done using it. You can just.. remake it every time you want to change something around, wouldnt even have to respec

Alts damage balance because they create an environment where people do not learn to make do with suboptimal things, or adapt their strategies around shifting meta, instead they just roll up whats fits a current prescribed meta which is able to be so absolute because everyone can simply conform to it after a day at skyreach. The necessity to try new things is eliminated. People think lots of choice and options and the freedom to just make a new character every day will add to build/playstyle diversity but it actually just restricts it, because when people have absolute freedom with out anything standing in the way to make them consider altering their course, they will all go in an absolute straight line to the most optimal thing, every time. Restrictions are what create diversity, not freedom.

STEVIL · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

Tandor wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

After various back and forth, here is where i come down on this.

i think it would be a good thing for the game if:
Any skyshard discovered by any character on an account unlocks that skyshard's location on the map for all. Every char knows where it is.

Any skyshard located in a delve or dungeon has to be gone to and accessed just like now. the closed environment and adversaries make these "accomplishments" to one degree or another. Every character has to go get their own of these closed content skyshards.

Any overland skyshard is unlocked and applied for every character when any character accesses it. travel to those is only needed once by any character not once by every character.

Some will agree, some will disagree but i think this cuts a midway between the two extremes that seems reasonable.

I would disagree anyway, on the basis that it's just another step on the slippery slope of dumbing down the game (like so many other MMOs before it and we know where that has led to with them) and contrary to the original style of the game, but would you at least agree that if such a change were to be made then it should be done with an off/on toggle so that those who want to develop their characters separately would still be able to do so? Of course, I would argue for such a toggle with shared dye unlocks and champion points!

Obviously, for some on either side, this is not really a discussion - it is an axiom that things should not be shared or an axiom that things should be and for those we wont get anywhere thru discourse. Axioms are after all, absolute.

i would have no problem with a toggle - set to default to not but where you can click to "activate discovered overland shards" to the various degrees.

i do not usually buy slippery slope as a valid premise. it is often but not always used to discount an idea that cannot be discounted on its own merit by construing some future straw man. "Tomorrow they might screw something up" is to me not a good reason to not fix something today.

Also, i gotta say, i do not feel the game is made any smarter or me playing my character made any better or any more fun when my 15th character this am ran down to Sw rift after a skyshard on a platform. It happened about an hour ago... did you get a sudden surge of "man the game got smarter" tingly when i did that? Did we see a shift in the threads about how much better the game felt at 913am vs 912am cuz i had to trek that way?

I do not see "more alt-friendly" as dumbing down. Reducing tedium time allows more non-tedium time for things that might actually be more fun and more enjoyable for others.

if i had those skyshard already unlocked, i would have been spending this time more likely on pledges, not overland treks on very very well worn paths.

Seems to me walking the same overland trek against non-content is dumber as a game by far than heading into pledges and dungeons and trying to learn new healers and the like in content where it matters.

But, even so, its not axiomatic, but preference. I would rather be figuring out my argonian healer than walking skyshards for the shards to get to that point.

Roovin · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

Guess I'm torn. Things like lore books definitely would not be account wide so why should shards?

But the shard grind sure is boring....

Roovin · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

STEVIL wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

After various back and forth, here is where i come down on this.

i think it would be a good thing for the game if:
Any skyshard discovered by any character on an account unlocks that skyshard's location on the map for all. Every char knows where it is.

Any skyshard located in a delve or dungeon has to be gone to and accessed just like now. the closed environment and adversaries make these "accomplishments" to one degree or another. Every character has to go get their own of these closed content skyshards.

Any overland skyshard is unlocked and applied for every character when any character accesses it. travel to those is only needed once by any character not once by every character.

Some will agree, some will disagree but i think this cuts a midway between the two extremes that seems reasonable.

I would disagree anyway, on the basis that it's just another step on the slippery slope of dumbing down the game (like so many other MMOs before it and we know where that has led to with them) and contrary to the original style of the game, but would you at least agree that if such a change were to be made then it should be done with an off/on toggle so that those who want to develop their characters separately would still be able to do so? Of course, I would argue for such a toggle with shared dye unlocks and champion points!

Obviously, for some on either side, this is not really a discussion - it is an axiom that things should not be shared or an axiom that things should be and for those we wont get anywhere thru discourse. Axioms are after all, absolute.

i would have no problem with a toggle - set to default to not but where you can click to "activate discovered overland shards" to the various degrees.

i do not usually buy slippery slope as a valid premise. it is often but not always used to discount an idea that cannot be discounted on its own merit by construing some future straw man. "Tomorrow they might screw something up" is to me not a good reason to not fix something today.

Also, i gotta say, i do not feel the game is made any smarter or me playing my character made any better or any more fun when my 15th character this am ran down to Sw rift after a skyshard on a platform. It happened about an hour ago... did you get a sudden surge of "man the game got smarter" tingly when i did that? Did we see a shift in the threads about how much better the game felt at 913am vs 912am cuz i had to trek that way?

I do not see "more alt-friendly" as dumbing down. Reducing tedium time allows more non-tedium time for things that might actually be more fun and more enjoyable for others.

if i had those skyshard already unlocked, i would have been spending this time more likely on pledges, not overland treks on very very well worn paths.

Seems to me walking the same overland trek against non-content is dumber as a game by far than heading into pledges and dungeons and trying to learn new healers and the like in content where it matters.

But, even so, its not axiomatic, but preference. I would rather be figuring out my argonian healer than walking skyshards for the shards to get to that point.

How is grinding the same pledges over and over any different?

STEVIL · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

Bringer wrote: »

The problem with compromising is that we have already compromised, we have the CP system making it radically easier to make a new alt every week if thats your thing. This already damages the game because there is much less to discourage people from rolling the new identical fotm build every time the meta shifts. The inevitable conclusion of this degredation of resistive elements to making new characters is that one day everything will be account shared, and then people will start making forum threads complaining about the character delete timer, because there will be no reason to keep a character once you are done using it. You can just.. remake it every time you want to change something around, wouldnt even have to respec

Alts damage balance because they create an environment where people do not learn to make do with suboptimal things, or adapt their strategies around shifting meta, instead they just roll up whats fits a current prescribed meta which is able to be so absolute because everyone can simply conform to it after a day at skyreach. The necessity to try new things is eliminated. People think lots of choice and options and the freedom to just make a new character every day will add to build/playstyle diversity but it actually just restricts it, because when people have absolute freedom with out anything standing in the way to make them consider altering their course, they will all go in an absolute straight line to the most optimal thing, every time. Restrictions are what create diversity, not freedom.

You do realize you just made a post about the straw man future horrors of a game where folks change their characters to meet new demands so often they need faster deletes and then try and throw in the bold about how that eliminates the necessity of trying new things?

Let me suggest that the proper "defense" vs "alt-o-mania" doom and gloom scenario you conjure with such imagination should not be increased tedium and repetition, should not be roadblocks in the way of getting to do what you want, but instead be more interesting things for longer running characters. Why not let the "resistance" not be slog you do not enjoy as much but instead be loss... loss of an accrued benefit for longevity if one can consider the time it takes to run around and gather skyshards (an afternoon or three maybe) "longevity?

Honey vs vinegar, carrot vs stick.

Bringer · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

STEVIL wrote: »

You do realize you just made a post about the straw man future horrors of a game where folks change their characters to meet new demands so often they need faster deletes and then try and throw in the bold about how that eliminates the necessity of trying new things?

It is an extrapolation of what we already have, look at the complaints about everyone being a magsorc, this is in part caused by the elimination of VRs character-specifity.

New things means new paradigms, the game shifting and then people deciding that now you just need X class/build to continue doing things the same old way you always used to is not new things, its the problem i am describing . We have very narrow roles currently because we can, because people can be expected to fill the narrow meta easily.

More interesting things for longer running characters.

If they are of any value they would be seen as mandatory.

I dont like the whole skill point system, and would be happy if people did not 'have to get skyshards' by just eliminating that mechanic entirely. But a change like this is not about the specific change, its about the underlying spirit of it. Its reasonings and justification.
When this or any other 'x should be account wide' threads pop up, it is in the majority about people wanting to not have to put effort into a specific character, to play the game not as a character, but as a player, which 'equips' characters. This is what leads to the balance problems we see in modern mmos. Games have never been balanced, but because you couldn't so easily hop on the fotm it all evened out. Being able to do this just feeds back and amplifies the imbalance, and results in the corrections to be more dramatic than needed, the over-nerfing that pretty much everyone complains about in every modern game.

Its also one of the contributing factors to the overall degradation in quality of playerbase over time in games. In the old days of mmos people just picked a character they liked and stuck with it, through the good times and bad times. When they had to compensate for something lacking they learned to play around their weakness, not bring a character that doesn't have it. People in this specific game i often see blaming one tamriel for causing the player quality to drop. I think its a time delayed effect from the CP system. When the system was first released it had little effect because the majority of people playing were from before, but as time went on and more and more people did not have to learn the game via the environment of the VR grind more and more people shifted from feeling as if they had to solve a problem and make do with suboptimal to simply being the current meta to the letter.

NyassaV · June 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide, with no restrictions

kargen27 wrote: »

Gathering skyshards is simple. Beyond that just leveling your character without the lazy grinds you will not be lacking for skill points. If you want to play a new character then play the new character. You are trying to drag participation medals into ESO.

Hahahha, participation medals... No I just wanna spend my time doing something useful! Just like how achievements and titles should be account based as dyes are!

Tandor · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

STEVIL wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

After various back and forth, here is where i come down on this.

i think it would be a good thing for the game if:
Any skyshard discovered by any character on an account unlocks that skyshard's location on the map for all. Every char knows where it is.

Any skyshard located in a delve or dungeon has to be gone to and accessed just like now. the closed environment and adversaries make these "accomplishments" to one degree or another. Every character has to go get their own of these closed content skyshards.

Any overland skyshard is unlocked and applied for every character when any character accesses it. travel to those is only needed once by any character not once by every character.

Some will agree, some will disagree but i think this cuts a midway between the two extremes that seems reasonable.

I would disagree anyway, on the basis that it's just another step on the slippery slope of dumbing down the game (like so many other MMOs before it and we know where that has led to with them) and contrary to the original style of the game, but would you at least agree that if such a change were to be made then it should be done with an off/on toggle so that those who want to develop their characters separately would still be able to do so? Of course, I would argue for such a toggle with shared dye unlocks and champion points!

Obviously, for some on either side, this is not really a discussion - it is an axiom that things should not be shared or an axiom that things should be and for those we wont get anywhere thru discourse. Axioms are after all, absolute.

i would have no problem with a toggle - set to default to not but where you can click to "activate discovered overland shards" to the various degrees.

i do not usually buy slippery slope as a valid premise. it is often but not always used to discount an idea that cannot be discounted on its own merit by construing some future straw man. "Tomorrow they might screw something up" is to me not a good reason to not fix something today.

Also, i gotta say, i do not feel the game is made any smarter or me playing my character made any better or any more fun when my 15th character this am ran down to Sw rift after a skyshard on a platform. It happened about an hour ago... did you get a sudden surge of "man the game got smarter" tingly when i did that? Did we see a shift in the threads about how much better the game felt at 913am vs 912am cuz i had to trek that way?

I do not see "more alt-friendly" as dumbing down. Reducing tedium time allows more non-tedium time for things that might actually be more fun and more enjoyable for others.

if i had those skyshard already unlocked, i would have been spending this time more likely on pledges, not overland treks on very very well worn paths.

Seems to me walking the same overland trek against non-content is dumber as a game by far than heading into pledges and dungeons and trying to learn new healers and the like in content where it matters.

But, even so, its not axiomatic, but preference. I would rather be figuring out my argonian healer than walking skyshards for the shards to get to that point.

It goes without saying that we have a different understanding of the term "alt-friendly". A game is alt-friendly to me if I can play different characters individually to the same extent as equals, whereas to you it is alt-friendly if you can play one character as your main to the full extent but with additional characters as alts with shortcuts through the content.

Also, for you it is clearly the endgame that matters, whereas for me it's the whole game that matters. Hence my earlier point about journey and destination, which you suggested I had wrong although much of what you have since said confirms the truth of what I was saying.

STEVIL · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

Tandor wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

After various back and forth, here is where i come down on this.

i think it would be a good thing for the game if:
Any skyshard discovered by any character on an account unlocks that skyshard's location on the map for all. Every char knows where it is.

Any skyshard located in a delve or dungeon has to be gone to and accessed just like now. the closed environment and adversaries make these "accomplishments" to one degree or another. Every character has to go get their own of these closed content skyshards.

Any overland skyshard is unlocked and applied for every character when any character accesses it. travel to those is only needed once by any character not once by every character.

Some will agree, some will disagree but i think this cuts a midway between the two extremes that seems reasonable.

I would disagree anyway, on the basis that it's just another step on the slippery slope of dumbing down the game (like so many other MMOs before it and we know where that has led to with them) and contrary to the original style of the game, but would you at least agree that if such a change were to be made then it should be done with an off/on toggle so that those who want to develop their characters separately would still be able to do so? Of course, I would argue for such a toggle with shared dye unlocks and champion points!

Obviously, for some on either side, this is not really a discussion - it is an axiom that things should not be shared or an axiom that things should be and for those we wont get anywhere thru discourse. Axioms are after all, absolute.

i would have no problem with a toggle - set to default to not but where you can click to "activate discovered overland shards" to the various degrees.

i do not usually buy slippery slope as a valid premise. it is often but not always used to discount an idea that cannot be discounted on its own merit by construing some future straw man. "Tomorrow they might screw something up" is to me not a good reason to not fix something today.

Also, i gotta say, i do not feel the game is made any smarter or me playing my character made any better or any more fun when my 15th character this am ran down to Sw rift after a skyshard on a platform. It happened about an hour ago... did you get a sudden surge of "man the game got smarter" tingly when i did that? Did we see a shift in the threads about how much better the game felt at 913am vs 912am cuz i had to trek that way?

I do not see "more alt-friendly" as dumbing down. Reducing tedium time allows more non-tedium time for things that might actually be more fun and more enjoyable for others.

if i had those skyshard already unlocked, i would have been spending this time more likely on pledges, not overland treks on very very well worn paths.

Seems to me walking the same overland trek against non-content is dumber as a game by far than heading into pledges and dungeons and trying to learn new healers and the like in content where it matters.

But, even so, its not axiomatic, but preference. I would rather be figuring out my argonian healer than walking skyshards for the shards to get to that point.

It goes without saying that we have a different understanding of the term "alt-friendly". A game is alt-friendly to me if I can play different characters individually to the same extent as equals, whereas to you it is alt-friendly if you can play one character as your main to the full extent but with additional characters as alts with shortcuts through the content.

Also, for you it is clearly the endgame that matters, whereas for me it's the whole game that matters. Hence my earlier point about journey and destination, which you suggested I had wrong although much of what you have since said confirms the truth of what I was saying.

Earlier today, after that post, I took my PvP t0 630 co+ warden on the snowfalls skyshard excursion. This is the 15th char I have taken thru snowfalls and about the 6th I have not done the questing on.

I get to fit your agenda you want to pretend the 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th and 15th time thru it should still have been some marvelous journey, but really it list that around six or so for me.

So keep pretending its me being about one and done etc... If that's what it takes to keep the pretext of this journey vision of yours going.

For me, let me clue you in on something, the new journey for me from Morrow is NOT Stonefalls or THE RIFT or AURIDON and their 10+ quests run thru.

Why? Cuz that hasn't changed.

Its the same as it was 3 months ago.

The new journey for me includes Morrowind questing, BG, Morrow dungeon/trials and the new Warden class.

Those are the new journeys they put in my hands.

Unfortunately the building blocks to reach desired levels of components are scattered back thru old content. So, I am in Stonefalls seeking shards for skills to be able to develop the warden (that I already quesedthru to 50) to where I want for the pledges and other stuff that I want to journey thru with the new class.

Do you see that ? Do you see that the new journey not being about redoing Stonefalls quests for the umpteenth time but about the new class in more challenging content is not the same thing at all as "shortcut thru content"??

Why is it so hard to understand that the part of the journey you would rather play thru over and over again might not be the same journey others wish and that being against both having the option is rsther, let's say, one track thinking.

If the devs wanted me to replay Stonefalls quests again in morrow, they should have updated them.

Jollygoodusername · June 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide, with no restrictions

Bringer wrote: »

In the old days of mmos people just picked a character they liked and stuck with it, through the good times and bad times. When they had to compensate for something lacking they learned to play around their weakness, not bring a character that doesn't have it..

Even in ye olde tymes of MUD's I would never fall prey to stagnation. If a class is not fun or far from my expectations in playstyle, then it's time to diversify.

Maybe I'm one of the few people here, who enjoys customization, the "what if". I've got more than 100k save files in Skyrim, from modding and testing mods. This desire to test anything and everything is what keeps me interested in a game altogether and having arbitrary grindage like Skyshards puts me in no mood to create end game anything.

Spare me your flavor of the month-cookie cutter-cheese build. I don't care how good it is in PvP/PvE, is it FUN? It must be easy...but I want more customization, more complex variables to sandbox. Anyhow, it's one of the main reasons I'm not even logging in to upgrade my mounts PER CHARACTER /tearsoflaughter at the moment.

STEVIL · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

Roovin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

After various back and forth, here is where i come down on this.

i think it would be a good thing for the game if:
Any skyshard discovered by any character on an account unlocks that skyshard's location on the map for all. Every char knows where it is.

Any skyshard located in a delve or dungeon has to be gone to and accessed just like now. the closed environment and adversaries make these "accomplishments" to one degree or another. Every character has to go get their own of these closed content skyshards.

Any overland skyshard is unlocked and applied for every character when any character accesses it. travel to those is only needed once by any character not once by every character.

Some will agree, some will disagree but i think this cuts a midway between the two extremes that seems reasonable.

I would disagree anyway, on the basis that it's just another step on the slippery slope of dumbing down the game (like so many other MMOs before it and we know where that has led to with them) and contrary to the original style of the game, but would you at least agree that if such a change were to be made then it should be done with an off/on toggle so that those who want to develop their characters separately would still be able to do so? Of course, I would argue for such a toggle with shared dye unlocks and champion points!

Obviously, for some on either side, this is not really a discussion - it is an axiom that things should not be shared or an axiom that things should be and for those we wont get anywhere thru discourse. Axioms are after all, absolute.

i would have no problem with a toggle - set to default to not but where you can click to "activate discovered overland shards" to the various degrees.

i do not usually buy slippery slope as a valid premise. it is often but not always used to discount an idea that cannot be discounted on its own merit by construing some future straw man. "Tomorrow they might screw something up" is to me not a good reason to not fix something today.

Also, i gotta say, i do not feel the game is made any smarter or me playing my character made any better or any more fun when my 15th character this am ran down to Sw rift after a skyshard on a platform. It happened about an hour ago... did you get a sudden surge of "man the game got smarter" tingly when i did that? Did we see a shift in the threads about how much better the game felt at 913am vs 912am cuz i had to trek that way?

I do not see "more alt-friendly" as dumbing down. Reducing tedium time allows more non-tedium time for things that might actually be more fun and more enjoyable for others.

if i had those skyshard already unlocked, i would have been spending this time more likely on pledges, not overland treks on very very well worn paths.

Seems to me walking the same overland trek against non-content is dumber as a game by far than heading into pledges and dungeons and trying to learn new healers and the like in content where it matters.

But, even so, its not axiomatic, but preference. I would rather be figuring out my argonian healer than walking skyshards for the shards to get to that point.

How is grinding the same pledges over and over any different?

Well, not sure ho0w you mean grinding but for example for my new stamina warden when i solo a pledge i have to learn new stuff and do new stuff - i am "playing a new journey" as one might say.

On the other hand mt new stamina warden approaches (forward mouse button) a skyshard inside a small broken crate and harvests it (clicks "E") just the same exact way as all the other character before.

having a complete new skill set and a complete new combat routine and so on make the pledge running solo thing with a brand new class not the same thing as it was before.

Do you see any difference in those two? Are they the same to you? Is that why you had to ask?

Also, I do not grind pledges, i run them.

davey1107 · June 2017

I think there should be one sky shard rightnwhen you getmoff the first boat, and when activated every character on your account gets 500 skill points, a cookie, a blow job and a unicorn.

Pawsy · June 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide, with no restrictions

If they are going to make Skyshards acount wide, please do the same with lorebooks. Theres nothing worse than grinding out lorebooks.

xaraan · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

No. Too many players are just expecting everything to be handed to them so they can jump right into end game content without the work to build a character. So you did something for one character, big whoop. Some players have worked for every character they have.

Duiwel · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

I see people are just as lazy as ever...

Come back to us when you guys who complain are at 14 chars like some of us.

Tandor · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

STEVIL wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

After various back and forth, here is where i come down on this.

i think it would be a good thing for the game if:
Any skyshard discovered by any character on an account unlocks that skyshard's location on the map for all. Every char knows where it is.

Any skyshard located in a delve or dungeon has to be gone to and accessed just like now. the closed environment and adversaries make these "accomplishments" to one degree or another. Every character has to go get their own of these closed content skyshards.

Any overland skyshard is unlocked and applied for every character when any character accesses it. travel to those is only needed once by any character not once by every character.

Some will agree, some will disagree but i think this cuts a midway between the two extremes that seems reasonable.

I would disagree anyway, on the basis that it's just another step on the slippery slope of dumbing down the game (like so many other MMOs before it and we know where that has led to with them) and contrary to the original style of the game, but would you at least agree that if such a change were to be made then it should be done with an off/on toggle so that those who want to develop their characters separately would still be able to do so? Of course, I would argue for such a toggle with shared dye unlocks and champion points!

Obviously, for some on either side, this is not really a discussion - it is an axiom that things should not be shared or an axiom that things should be and for those we wont get anywhere thru discourse. Axioms are after all, absolute.

i would have no problem with a toggle - set to default to not but where you can click to "activate discovered overland shards" to the various degrees.

i do not usually buy slippery slope as a valid premise. it is often but not always used to discount an idea that cannot be discounted on its own merit by construing some future straw man. "Tomorrow they might screw something up" is to me not a good reason to not fix something today.

Also, i gotta say, i do not feel the game is made any smarter or me playing my character made any better or any more fun when my 15th character this am ran down to Sw rift after a skyshard on a platform. It happened about an hour ago... did you get a sudden surge of "man the game got smarter" tingly when i did that? Did we see a shift in the threads about how much better the game felt at 913am vs 912am cuz i had to trek that way?

I do not see "more alt-friendly" as dumbing down. Reducing tedium time allows more non-tedium time for things that might actually be more fun and more enjoyable for others.

if i had those skyshard already unlocked, i would have been spending this time more likely on pledges, not overland treks on very very well worn paths.

Seems to me walking the same overland trek against non-content is dumber as a game by far than heading into pledges and dungeons and trying to learn new healers and the like in content where it matters.

But, even so, its not axiomatic, but preference. I would rather be figuring out my argonian healer than walking skyshards for the shards to get to that point.

It goes without saying that we have a different understanding of the term "alt-friendly". A game is alt-friendly to me if I can play different characters individually to the same extent as equals, whereas to you it is alt-friendly if you can play one character as your main to the full extent but with additional characters as alts with shortcuts through the content.

Also, for you it is clearly the endgame that matters, whereas for me it's the whole game that matters. Hence my earlier point about journey and destination, which you suggested I had wrong although much of what you have since said confirms the truth of what I was saying.

Earlier today, after that post, I took my PvP t0 630 co+ warden on the snowfalls skyshard excursion. This is the 15th char I have taken thru snowfalls and about the 6th I have not done the questing on.

I get to fit your agenda you want to pretend the 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th and 15th time thru it should still have been some marvelous journey, but really it list that around six or so for me.

So keep pretending its me being about one and done etc... If that's what it takes to keep the pretext of this journey vision of yours going.

For me, let me clue you in on something, the new journey for me from Morrow is NOT Stonefalls or THE RIFT or AURIDON and their 10+ quests run thru.

Why? Cuz that hasn't changed.

Its the same as it was 3 months ago.

The new journey for me includes Morrowind questing, BG, Morrow dungeon/trials and the new Warden class.

Those are the new journeys they put in my hands.

Unfortunately the building blocks to reach desired levels of components are scattered back thru old content. So, I am in Stonefalls seeking shards for skills to be able to develop the warden (that I already quesedthru to 50) to where I want for the pledges and other stuff that I want to journey thru with the new class.

Do you see that ? Do you see that the new journey not being about redoing Stonefalls quests for the umpteenth time but about the new class in more challenging content is not the same thing at all as "shortcut thru content"??

Why is it so hard to understand that the part of the journey you would rather play thru over and over again might not be the same journey others wish and that being against both having the option is rsther, let's say, one track thinking.

If the devs wanted me to replay Stonefalls quests again in morrow, they should have updated them.

That is precisely why I have commented that we approach these things differently. For you a game is alt-friendly if you can cut out the stuff you've done before while for me a game is alt-friendly if the game treats my characters the same and doesn't cut stuff out because I've done it on a different character already.

Aelthwyn · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

Tandor wrote: »

Finding and activating skyshards is part of playing the game, and if people don't want to play the game they are under no obligation to do so - or they can simply play one character if they don't want to go through the process of playing more than one character. No game should be structured around those who only wish to "grind an alt" to max level in the minimum time possible and without the "inconvenience" of playing the game up to that point purely on the grounds that they've done it once so don't want to do it again. A lot of us play multiple characters as equal individuals not as a "main plus alts" and it would destroy the way we play the game if such things as skyshards were earned across the account.

YES, Exactly. Thank you. Very well put.

Collecting skyshards is one of my favorite things to do actually, I would be grievously disappointed if I didn't get to do that multiple times!!

It comes down to differing play styles. Some people just want to get leveled and get to the end content, and for those I can see how running about the map collecting shards could be tedious. But then other people play for experiencing the journey of leveling and exploring the world with each different character and we don't want to lose the 'replay value'.

deleted008293 · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

Play the game and level it the way it was designed to do it. It shouldn't matter if you have one two or 20 characters. A player who made more chars should't have the benefit of an account wide content. It would feel like you are just copying one of your character and that will destroy the game long therm because you won't have any motivation in leveling and questing on a second toon.

You can use the actual mechanic through go farm xp and do a skyshard run at any time but to be honest you won't level up as fast as you might want to. Ofc it save you some time but its a boring process and your skills might require some extra works anyway.

Just in case, this could actually be an good $$$ earning process. Zos could sell premade characters in crown store for a serious price but ONLY after you complete the storyline twice from a to z. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Bobby_V_Rockit · June 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide once you hit level 50. All those that you have not collected before you hit 50 but gathered on other characters at max level, then become available.

Why you gotta break balls?

Yadvo · June 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide, with no restrictions

Pawsy wrote: »

If they are going to make Skyshards acount wide, please do the same with lorebooks. Theres nothing worse than grinding out lorebooks.

Read the thread rules. Do not mention the lorebooks or else the discussion will go off topic.

SlyFox1979 · July 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide once you hit level 50. All those that you have not collected before you hit 50 but gathered on other characters at max level, then become available.

SkyShards should be account wide and i think maybe you should get access to all of them once that character is lvl 50.
I only have three characters now making a warden being the new guy only lvl 14 but anyway i got burned out on my main while hunting. the skyshards should be deactivated on other characters if they were found by one so no overlapping skill points so the max amount stays the same across the account.
while playing Diablo 3 leveling my necromancer paragon points didn't start up until i hit lvl 70 and its a fair system.

another thought could be if zenimax allowed mods on console, the only mod i'd want is skyshard map one lol

Moonscythe · July 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

The map idea for consoles is nice but, you know what, I sit on my sofa with a map showing me where the skyshards are as well as other places I need to find. I get lost easily and hate running through an entire delve only to have to go back in because I missed the skyshard so I pull up a map and look it up. I have a tablet but everyone else in the world seems to have a smart phone so let's just say no to marking the in-game map since it will just irritate the purists who hate all maps and markers.

Otherwise I completely agree with @Tandor and @Tevore1138.

AlnilamE · July 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

Kendaric wrote: »

Voted that way since console players have no add-ons like we PC players do. Other than that, skyshards are entirely fine as is and we don't need to have accountwide.

Same here, even though I'm on PC.

Empty skyshard husks fill me with sadness.

One of the reasons to make new characters is to gather them and lorebooks again.

I understand that some players see characters simply as build templates, but my characters have a story and going through the world and discovering it is part of that story.

Taleof2Cities · July 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

Also voted out of sympathy for console players ... who do not have access to the skyshards PC add-on.