Should SKYSHARDS be made available account-wide? [Improved poll, with more options!]

svartorn · June 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide, with no restrictions

Oh man, I wish. Getting skyshards on my 10th toon is such a hassle.

Bringer · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

I voted for the console option, because honestly they should be marked, along with lorebooks, for everyone. Those are basic addons that everyone (except that guy who is specifically going to come in here and post that he doesnt for attention) use by default.

Im against anything that further destroys unique character identity and makes characters just a suit of clothing you the player wears. That means things like mage guild grind, skyshards, alliance ranks, research, etc need to stay character specific, they already heavily catered to casuals by making CP account wide.

Jollygoodusername · June 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide, with no restrictions

Skyshards should be global unlocks, once found on any character, they should be usable by all characters on that account.
Why? Because it does no harm since you cannot possibly use the Skyshards if not the appropriate level/skill lvl anyhow. For many new people who are still trying out different classes to see what they enjoy playing, this is a horrible waste of time, collecting skyshards over and over.

It gets boring very very quickly and the delve Skyshards are the worst, I don't care how much exp it gives, it's just not worth it sometimes. If it feels like zombie droning work, then I cannot fathom why I'm not being paid to do it. "Welp, gotta get back to pickin' my digital cotton now!"

Jollygoodusername · June 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide, with no restrictions

Niaver wrote: »

I don't know the solution, but I can say it's really not fun to collect them for every character. To give all skyshards for lvl1 character would be a mistake as well.

A level 1 character doesn't even have SKILLS in the recent patch, let alone be able to use those Skyshards until leveling the skills up first. They would do less harm than a level 1 with 600cp.

Bouldercleave · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

Jollygoodusername wrote: »

Skyshards should be global unlocks, once found on any character, they should be usable by all characters on that account.
Why? Because it does no harm since you cannot possibly use the Skyshards if not the appropriate level/skill lvl anyhow. For many new people who are still trying out different classes to see what they enjoy playing, this is a horrible waste of time, collecting skyshards over and over.

It gets boring very very quickly and the delve Skyshards are the worst, I don't care how much exp it gives, it's just not worth it sometimes. If it feels like zombie droning work, then I cannot fathom why I'm not being paid to do it. "Welp, gotta get back to pickin' my digital cotton now!"

If you have already collected them once, you aren't a new player.

Jollygoodusername · June 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide, with no restrictions

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Jollygoodusername wrote: »

Skyshards should be global unlocks, once found on any character, they should be usable by all characters on that account.
Why? Because it does no harm since you cannot possibly use the Skyshards if not the appropriate level/skill lvl anyhow. For many new people who are still trying out different classes to see what they enjoy playing, this is a horrible waste of time, collecting skyshards over and over.

It gets boring very very quickly and the delve Skyshards are the worst, I don't care how much exp it gives, it's just not worth it sometimes. If it feels like zombie droning work, then I cannot fathom why I'm not being paid to do it. "Welp, gotta get back to pickin' my digital cotton now!"

If you have already collected them once, you aren't a new player.

You're a new player if you haven't attained at least Champion 160 on a single character, completed 0% of dungeon/group content and have maxed out the allotted character slots...or maybe that's just me.

Either way, get what you're trying to say but new player is subjective to a point and the way I used it was in proper context so....yeah.

WuffyCerulei · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

Horse riding lessons should seriously be accountwide and have the cooldown be accountwide too.

Bouldercleave · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

Jollygoodusername wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Jollygoodusername wrote: »

Skyshards should be global unlocks, once found on any character, they should be usable by all characters on that account.
Why? Because it does no harm since you cannot possibly use the Skyshards if not the appropriate level/skill lvl anyhow. For many new people who are still trying out different classes to see what they enjoy playing, this is a horrible waste of time, collecting skyshards over and over.

It gets boring very very quickly and the delve Skyshards are the worst, I don't care how much exp it gives, it's just not worth it sometimes. If it feels like zombie droning work, then I cannot fathom why I'm not being paid to do it. "Welp, gotta get back to pickin' my digital cotton now!"

If you have already collected them once, you aren't a new player.

You're a new player if you haven't attained at least Champion 160 on a single character, completed 0% of dungeon/group content and have maxed out the allotted character slots...or maybe that's just me.

Either way, get what you're trying to say but new player is subjective to a point and the way I used it was in proper context so....yeah.

Um, yeah it's just you. As an altaholic and completionist it took me almost 3 years to get a character to CP160. I am ANYTHING but a new player.

Eirella · June 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide once you hit level 50. All those that you have not collected before you hit 50 but gathered on other characters at max level, then become available.

Yadvo wrote: »

Eirella wrote: »

Sure, why not?

My idea was that you would additionally explain why yes!

Because after leveling 12+ characters I'm tired of gathering Skyshards?

STEVIL · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

Jollygoodusername wrote: »

Niaver wrote: »

I don't know the solution, but I can say it's really not fun to collect them for every character. To give all skyshards for lvl1 character would be a mistake as well.

A level 1 character doesn't even have SKILLS in the recent patch, let alone be able to use those Skyshards until leveling the skills up first. They would do less harm than a level 1 with 600cp.

While i am not there yet, i am realky sympatheitc to this pov.

Consider for my 16th char (deleted two after they hit vet) here is what i can do right now once they get out of tutorisls:

See all the stats scale free to cp630 level.
Assign 630 cp.
Craft with one of my other characters gear at lvl 1 or 4 when they hit that. These can be a full 5pc 9 trait set plus 3-4 others. Easily a julianos 5 plus seducer 3-4 or whatever i want with enchants and poisons and potions on demand.
give them the scaling food for health plus magica or whatever that continues to scale as they do.

Given all that, taking them from say 5 skills to spend to 105 skills to spend (say 100 from prior shards applied) when they still have less than 10 skill slots unlocked to spend them one, well, that seems to pale in comparison to the impact of all the other "can gets"* already in play based on prior accomplishments of the other characters. .

* "starting characters can get..."

I think at least some of the issue of disagreement stems from some folks having different impressions as to what a starting character ALT **is** in the game now versus what they imagine a starting character **should be**.

Does anyone want to explain the benefits in my 16th character running around to gather skyshards versus me being able to just spend the skill points when i get the levels to unlock the places to spend them? How is that much much MUCH worse than that 16th char getting 630 cp to spend right out the gate and a full set of julianos/seducer training trait with red frothgar food and tri-pots that it cannot be allowed when the others are?

TheShadowScout · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

Another of those "gimme" threads? Pffffttt...

Are skill points from main quest completions account wide?
No?
Are skill points from region quests completions account wide?
No?
Are skill points from levelling account wide?
No?
Are skill points from PvP ranks account wide?
No?
Are skill points from public dungeon group challenges account wide?
No?
So, why should skill points from skyshards be???

ESO already has -more- account wide stuff then any other MMORPG I ever played thanks to the champion system. And still there are people who keep asking for more, more, more. They ask for account wide skyshards, account wide crafting, account wide riding, account wide PvP rank, account wide achievements, account wide library, account wide everything!

And they keep using the same lame pretexts...
..."I did it on my other characters" - well, you did all the levelling on your other characters too, and it still isn't account wide until you hit the champion system after level 50. Yeah, some people want the game to treat all characters as the same character, because they -clearly- didn't get the "RPG" part in MMORPG... and think they somehow deserve a "gamerscore" approach to all rewards.
..."Its taking too much time" - sure does. I have 14 characters, and am still not done with many of them. That's why I am still playing after all, instead of making an "I am bored, goodbye" thread on the forums and seeking another game, which I have seen people do, despite it being against forum guidelines... The point is, if its too much of a bother to spend the time, then do without. Simple. If you care enough about that alt, then spend the time hunting down those skyshards. If your memory is not at "politician" levels of forgetfulness, you should have no difficulty to pick them all up en passant while doing your usual questing...
..."I just come here to PvP and don't care for all the PvE regions" - so? That does not mean you should be handed everything... I mean, same as the PvE people shouldn't be handed all the stuff hidden in cyrodil, be it dwelve completions or skyshards, or whatever... I mean, I get it, some people want to just try out a new build, and not having to bother actually playing to get their alts power up to their mains... and thus try to rule-lawyer themselves into power on the forums. Doesn't mean I have to agree with that idea.
..."Those who want it can still..." Yeah, suuure. Hey, when I do a trial or dungeon, why not let me draw an daily reward pack without having to do it ever again? Same thing, right? After all, those who spent days upon days of running it won't mind that I were to get what they worked for without doing the same effort, right? What? They would mind? Oh, myy.

And finally... why would the powers that be allow people to bypass more of their game just because some whine about having to spend a bit of time visiting the same locations they vcisited on their main again for a five second glow as they pick up a skyshard? What's in it for them?
If anything, it might come as an crown store unlock... "skyshard completion packs", 1000 crowns per map for each character or something. Because if we go with "bypass game for convinience" examples, the one closest to this would be crown riding lessions...
So there. That is what you could plausibly hope for.
Would you pay a load of crowns for it?
No?
Then...

klowdy1 · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

The more annoying thing to gather is the mage's guild books. If you want to know where skyshards are, download the add-on. Light weight, shows where they are, but some are still s bit of a search for some of them.

The only thing I would like to see account wide is mount training. Other than that, it should be up to the player to collect the items that make your class work properly. Giving a new character enough skill points to be fully specced is a horrible idea.

The only way this could be viable is making PvP like it is in GW2. Otherwise, what is the point of leveling, or even playing?

Tavore1138 · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

RT_Frank wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

RT_Frank wrote: »

The problem with discussions like these that advocate for change in ESO is that most people who vote for no change do so because they have had to suffer/deal with the system, and hate how new people don't have to if it is changed.

Look at posts that advocate for account wide achievements, vma tokens, removal of trash traits in loot pool, and other similar discussions. The large majority of people against these changes only do so because, for example, to them it's unfair how they have to run vma 5000 times but new players don't.

I too have multiple characters that have recollected skyshards over and over again and I am not looking forward to doing so with my Warden. It is not fun by any means. I don't care if it's easy, it's time consuming and considering all the bs RNG in this game, time is a precious commodity to those of us with busy lives.

So please, those of who want no change think about the majority of players rather than the "integrity" of the game or RP reasons or whatever.

You appear to be indulging in a basic logical fallacy which assumes that the only reason that people disagree with you getting what you want is because they are mean and selfish. It's really not true. Also 46% is not a majority - you need to either listen better in maths or sue your teacher if that's what they taught you.

The things you list are not all alike. It would easily be possible for achieves to be presented both as account wide and on a per character basis to keep both 'sides' happy - people claiming titles a character has not earned was always the issue here for most. I doubt you'd find many who would argue against either tokens or removal of the real trash traits either. But shards are different.

You dismiss the RP aspects of the game rather easily for someone playing an RPG where the reality is that some of us actually enjoy playing this game as it is designed, we like to level up characters, we like to do quests and roam around areas, we like to have to make the choices about when to level which skill and see how it pans out, we like to treat a character as a character rather than just one big account.

Therefore to that type of player, of which I am one, choices about which quest to do or not do, which skill lines we may or may not choose to level and, yes, which shards we might or might not pursue are part of the pleasure of playing the game - a pleasure you seem keen to remove while insulting, by implication, those of us who actually enjoy playing.

I'm just going to respond to your comment phrase by phrase.
1. I'm not really sure how to respond to this. @Yadvo does it best but I honestly don't know where you pulled 46% from. Unless the polls spiked up from 30%, when I wrote my comment, to 46% then back down to 33%, which I doubt. A 2:1 ratio seems to indicate a clear majority/minority standing. I don't think you know how polls work so I'd suggest retaking those math classes buddy .

2. If you read closely, I am not saying that they are alike by practice but rather by principle. I was stating that if you look at any discussion that wants change to an annoying mechanic, there are going to be some people who do not want change (which is fine) under the basis that new players don't have to suffer to get the same things (which is not fine as that logic impedes improvement). Nowhere did I suggest any proposal to these discussions nor claim that they are problems with similar solutions.

3. I am offended that you seem to think of me as some sort of RP hater (just look at some of my comments where I have defended RPers). However, this is an issue that affects the majority of players and these players want change. On previous skyshard posts and by talking to many people on Xbox NA, these people are dissatisfied with the current system so I am merely voicing their concerns. I wrote that last bit to say that those of you who do not want change to just think about the majority. You said it yourself, only some of you actually like skyshard hunting for various reasons. Do you think it's fair to make the majority dissatisfied while the few benefit? I am not bashing RPers; I am just saying to consider the other viewpoints instead of this narrow viewpoint you seem to have (though I doubt most RPers are this myopic). Sorry if this point seems a bit scathing, but I wrote this to prevent short-sighted comments (which your bit on not giving console players a skyshard map because it's on PC proves).

4. Refer to my 3rd point but basically I never said to remove RP pleasures so stop putting words into my mouth.

I've read your comments past this one and I honestly did not think that anyone would get offended so easily by my comment. I figured that I'd leave my two cents and maybe get an Agree or two. I apologize to making you think that I was bashing RPers, or negating opinions, or whatever. However, people who live in a glass house should not throw stones. Your comment deliberately falsified data, put words into my mouth, and insulted my education. Stop playing the role of the victim here.

(Note that my insult to your education is more of a playful retort with little vinegar ).

The 46% was the sum of the two 'get all the shards without hunting them down' options at the time of my post - I did not count the map option as that still would require people to actually visir the locations and grab the shards. Thus a majotity do not agree with the subject of the topic.

My comment had a seasoning of salt because the implication I took from your post was that the only reason to disagree wss because we nasty old timers wanted to force you to suffer like we did which implies we'd disagree simply out of malice - I found that insulting as I both enjoy the roaming around and also seriuosly believe that having new characters start with large parts of the content already in hand would remove the fun even from some who might think otherwise.

I have no idea what your opinion of RP is, your post made no real statements about that just the opening bit about how people were only against change because they wanted you to suffer - think about that a little and I think you might get why I felt you had opened the door for a little return insult even if that may not have been your direct intent. i was perectly civil before that and have not exactly gone full angry mode after but also didn't really feel like taking it lying down either.

Gravord · June 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide once you hit level 50. All those that you have not collected before you hit 50 but gathered on other characters at max level, then become available.

Account avaiable upon hitting lvl 50. Same as lorebooks should be. Walking for hours to click shard or lorebook is waste of time and not "replaying content", players could do much more interestesting activities - dungeons, trials, pvp and so on, instead they have to waste lot of time to gain necessary skill points and mage guild progress to be actually usefull in those things mentioned above.

Cpt_Teemo · June 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide, with no restrictions

Gravord wrote: »

Account avaiable upon hitting lvl 50. Same as lorebooks should be. Walking for hours to click shard or lorebook is waste of time and not "replaying content", players could do much more interestesting activities - dungeons, trials, pvp and so on, instead they have to waste lot of time to gain necessary skill points and mage guild progress to be actually usefull in those things mentioned above.

Same goes for motifs and traits too tbh, once you got them done i doubt the majority of the community uses multiple expensive motifs on alts compared to making gold off of.

STEVIL · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Another of those "gimme" threads? Pffffttt...

Are skill points from main quest completions account wide?
No?
Are skill points from region quests completions account wide?
No?
Are skill points from levelling account wide?
No?
Are skill points from PvP ranks account wide?
No?
Are skill points from public dungeon group challenges account wide?
No?
So, why should skill points from skyshards be???

Well, all of those (except for the italics) require accomplishing specific things usually involving beating a challenge. While the italicsed one does not technically have a specific challenge associated with it, it is triggered by accumulating Xp and so... basically the same.

Skyshards - all they require is walking/riding to them and clicking on the interact for a few seconds.

They are not acquired by "challenge" at all (even such a mediocre challenge as overland content provides) they just require tedium.

for some that makes a difference.
for some it wont.

but the impact of unlocking shard-skill points from shards for lower level characters who have fewer places to spend them than the skills would provide is less than allowing them to benefit from full cp and full sets (crafted) and the gains provided by scaling.

As for...

"And finally... why would the powers that be allow people to bypass more of their game just because some whine about having to spend a bit of time visiting the same locations they vcisited on their main again for a five second glow as they pick up a skyshard? What's in it for them?"

Well, presumably the same gains they got when the made that decision for CP. A more ALT-friendly game experience for their players allowing less frustrating repetition for basics only with a much more constrained gain - Cp are Cp all the time whereas skills available only matter when you have skill slots open to spend them on.

Cheveyo · June 2017

IMO, there should be a requirement for unlocking Skyshards, other than collecting them on one character.

Maybe you also need to have done the exploration and quest achievements in a zone to unlock the skyshards for all characters.

TheShadowScout · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

STEVIL wrote: »

Well, all of those (except for the italics) require accomplishing specific things usually involving beating a challenge. While the italicsed one does not technically have a specific challenge associated with it, it is triggered by accumulating Xp and so... basically the same.

Skyshards - all they require is walking/riding to them and clicking on the interact for a few seconds...

Well, you could also look at the others the same way. After all, gaining that quest skill point only requires walking up to the questgiver and turning in your quest right? What? You still have to fight through the quest? Oh, my. You mean, like many skyshards also need a wee bit of fighting to get to them? Who'd have thought...

As for the "challenge"... a great many of those quests are not all that challenging anymore, as people have been wont to state on these our foruns every now and then in an "Back in the pre-nerf days..." kind of topics

In fact... I'd say, -finding- some of those skyshards can be more of a challenge then some of the others (unless you are a weak spined ***... uhm... person who uses addons because they don't have the preservance to do it the hard way)

In the end, all that is really required to gain skill points is spending time on the game.
Thus I argue against letting people bypass some of that time - if they want the skill points on their alt, they should spend the time on their alt.
Same as with everything else - want it, game for it; don't wanna game for it - do without.

STEVIL wrote: »

but the impact of unlocking shard-skill points from shards for lower level characters who have fewer places to spend them than the skills would provide is less than allowing them to benefit from full cp and full sets (crafted) and the gains provided by scaling.

Personally I would consider the impact -more- then CP.
Of course, I myself would be happy if they changed the whole champion system to allow people access to their CP goodies only after getting to 50, but I guess I can bear the alt-ing advantage it gives...

Anyways, skill points... considering how that is the one thing most often troubling new characters... I see it as a bigger impact then CP, really. Since latter have more of an passive advantage, and skill points are very much an active, felt advantage... at least for beginning characters.

STEVIL wrote: »

Well, presumably the same gains they got when the made that decision for CP. A more ALT-friendly game experience for their players allowing less frustrating repetition for basics only with a much more constrained gain - Cp are Cp all the time whereas skills available only matter when you have skill slots open to spend them on.

Exactly! So, another advantage to those alt-ing, to throughoughly frustrate those new players who struggle on their first character, strugle to get the skill points to allow them unlocking skills and passives, whereas the alt should get them on a silver platter, so the people who are alt-ing can have an extra edge evenm in non-cp campaigns and such?
Not something I would support...

Of course, that IS the very reason people whine for it. Because they want to jump right into the action with their alt, and not spend time hunting down skill points to allow them to unlock all those juicy skills and passives...
It would be about as alt-friendly as allowing people to start at increased levels. And about as vexing for those without alts.

Edweardo · June 2017

What do you think about the same for ACHIEVEMENTS ?
I always wandered why they did that, it is useless i never won't do achievs again on my alts it's nonsense !

Eshja · June 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide once you hit level 50. All those that you have not collected before you hit 50 but gathered on other characters at max level, then become available.

Well, I would be up for skill points from skyshards account wide and you could still collect skyshards for achievements but without skill points.

Barbara73 · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

So many want "Account Wide" and an easy path of everything in the game. Then later the same people post threads on how board they are with nothing to do. The content in ESO is nearly endless so try playing it, stop crying about every little thing and if you have 20 toons to grind things for it's your fault not the Devs or all the rest of us.

Cpt_Teemo · June 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide, with no restrictions

Barbara73 wrote: »

So many want "Account Wide" and an easy path of everything in the game. Then later the same people post threads on how board they are with nothing to do. The content in ESO is nearly endless so try playing it, stop crying about every little thing and if you have 20 toons to grind things for it's your fault not the Devs or all the rest of us.

Goes both ways, people that want to play alts don't want to be bothered with doing the same exact thing 2+ times just to get to where there main character was and end up quitting.

Yadvo · June 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide, with no restrictions

Cheveyo wrote: »

IMO, there should be a requirement for unlocking Skyshards, other than collecting them on one character.

Maybe you also need to have done the exploration and quest achievements in a zone to unlock the skyshards for all characters.

That also is a possible solution. I might include it in a future poll!

Bringer · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

don't want to be bothered

i dont what to be bothered leveling at all please make all characters 50 by default, also make all skill points pre-obtained getting them is a hassle, alliance skill lines should not have to be ground either.. in fact no skill lines should! etc.

CP is bad enough, we dont need more to encourage people to just roll the current FOTM and end up with the game full of the same current meta build in all situations with no variety. The ease of making alts is the reason we see threads criticizing such lack of diversity in trials and cyrodiil.
If you want a powerful alt you should have to spend time making it.

Tandor · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Barbara73 wrote: »

So many want "Account Wide" and an easy path of everything in the game. Then later the same people post threads on how board they are with nothing to do. The content in ESO is nearly endless so try playing it, stop crying about every little thing and if you have 20 toons to grind things for it's your fault not the Devs or all the rest of us.

Goes both ways, people that want to play alts don't want to be bothered with doing the same exact thing 2+ times just to get to where there main character was and end up quitting.

That's only true of some people that want to play alts. Others don't consider it "being bothered" and their whole rationale in playing multiple characters is to play the whole game with them just like their first character. It's the difference between those who play a game for the journey rather than just rushing to the destination.

Animal_Mother · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

Make the skyshards available account wide, with no restrictions

Make the skyshards available account wide once you hit level 50. All those that you have not collected before you hit 50 but gathered on other characters at max level, then become available.

Aren't these two options functionally identical? What's the incentive to collect Skyshards pre-50, if you know you will be receiving them at 50, since it has been stated a character can grind 1-50 in the starting zones now?

Victoria_Marquis · June 2017

Make the skyshards available account wide once you hit level 50. All those that you have not collected before you hit 50 but gathered on other characters at max level, then become available.

I have eleven characters, all level 50 and almost maxed cp.... after running through the game several times, collecting sky shards start becoming monotonous. Once you do the main story quests on all three factions you get to a point where when you need to start a new character you just no longer feel like looking for all the sky shards anymore and just want to get into other parts of the game that interest you.

Once you take one character through the game spending all that time finding the sky shards it should be account wide so that when you start a new character all you have to do is just level it up and the skill points are all ready there.

You can't be overpowered at level one due to you still have to level your skill tree lines to open them up,... It will just be nice to have the extra points waiting there for you once you grind up your tree lines.

Shamefully after several years of playing ESO, I have not got every single sky shards that's in the game, Missing a few from Cyrodiil do to being ganked trying to get to them that's on enemies sides.

Excited on being able to play the new Wardens class tomorrow on XB1, but at the same time feeling the pain in the back of my head Knowing that once again for the twelfth time I'm going to have to take a lot if boring monotonous time out of my play time to go find all those sky shards.

I work and consider myself a casual player due to only having 2-5 hours per day to play, so yes please for the live of Mara make sky shards skill points account wide.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

See you in Marrowind .

TheShadowScout · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Goes both ways, people that want to play alts don't want to be bothered with doing the same exact thing 2+ times just to get to where there main character was and end up quitting.

...speak for yourself!

I have fourteen characters, and no problem whatsoever doing things fourteen times. Oh, sure, not right away, that would be too boring... but with that many characters, I don't have to, I can leisurely do stuff on my alts, then PvP on my mains again, then craft, then hunt achievements, then do some alt-ing again...

That's what keep the game interesting for me! And all it really requires is a mindset that enjoys walking the virtual road with a new character to represent one in the game world, instead of rushing towards some goal all the faster... which really is the better way to go about virtual worlds if you ask me... and following the true spirit behind MMORPGs.

STEVIL · June 2017

Once gathered, the skyshards are marked on the map for other characters (console players suggestion)

TheShadowScout wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Well, all of those (except for the italics) require accomplishing specific things usually involving beating a challenge. While the italicsed one does not technically have a specific challenge associated with it, it is triggered by accumulating Xp and so... basically the same.

Skyshards - all they require is walking/riding to them and clicking on the interact for a few seconds...

Well, you could also look at the others the same way. After all, gaining that quest skill point only requires walking up to the questgiver and turning in your quest right? What? You still have to fight through the quest? Oh, my. You mean, like many skyshards also need a wee bit of fighting to get to them? Who'd have thought...
As for the "challenge"... a great many of those quests are not all that challenging anymore, as people have been wont to state on these our foruns every now and then in an "Back in the pre-nerf days..." kind of topics
In fact... I'd say, -finding- some of those skyshards can be more of a challenge then some of the others (unless you are a weak spined ***... uhm... person who uses addons because they don't have the preservance to do it the hard way)

In the end, all that is really required to gain skill points is spending time on the game.
Thus I argue against letting people bypass some of that time - if they want the skill points on their alt, they should spend the time on their alt.
Same as with everything else - want it, game for it; don't wanna game for it - do without.

STEVIL wrote: »

but the impact of unlocking shard-skill points from shards for lower level characters who have fewer places to spend them than the skills would provide is less than allowing them to benefit from full cp and full sets (crafted) and the gains provided by scaling.

Personally I would consider the impact -more- then CP.
Of course, I myself would be happy if they changed the whole champion system to allow people access to their CP goodies only after getting to 50, but I guess I can bear the alt-ing advantage it gives...

Anyways, skill points... considering how that is the one thing most often troubling new characters... I see it as a bigger impact then CP, really. Since latter have more of an passive advantage, and skill points are very much an active, felt advantage... at least for beginning characters.

STEVIL wrote: »

Well, presumably the same gains they got when the made that decision for CP. A more ALT-friendly game experience for their players allowing less frustrating repetition for basics only with a much more constrained gain - Cp are Cp all the time whereas skills available only matter when you have skill slots open to spend them on.

Exactly! So, another advantage to those alt-ing, to throughoughly frustrate those new players who struggle on their first character, strugle to get the skill points to allow them unlocking skills and passives, whereas the alt should get them on a silver platter, so the people who are alt-ing can have an extra edge evenm in non-cp campaigns and such?
Not something I would support...

Of course, that IS the very reason people whine for it. Because they want to jump right into the action with their alt, and not spend time hunting down skill points to allow them to unlock all those juicy skills and passives...
It would be about as alt-friendly as allowing people to start at increased levels. And about as vexing for those without alts.

First bold - well the perspective that fulfilling quests and the like for skill points dont require anything more than skyshard do is an interesting one and one we will not agree on but - simply put - the bolded statement that everythign else requires you to game for it (implied for each character) is just flat out wrong and you know it.

Re second bold - really? Well first off you will note i did not just limit it to Cp as you did in your dissent - starting characters alts get access to (within the account) full cp, scaling, gear crafted for them by other alts and that all adds up to a character pretty far divorced in power level from a real true "struggling" starter character. Increasing the number of skill points unable to be spent by a huge amount and the number of skill points spent by a smaller amount wont make anywhere near that much difference.

I know some folks may long for the good old days where alts started at unsceled level 3 and had to earn every rank thru veteran 16 on their own, up hill both ways, but those days are gone and trying to fight against every other sharing like its a personal attack is out-of-touch with where the game is now.

Third bold - with the cp thrown in for max effect a "low level" character can frankly breeze thru with their hundings and partial NMG crafted and light/heavy attacks as they gather their skills. it is not any more challenging than what a non-cp/non-set beginner would be seeing, much less in fact.

The ship you are trying to keep moored at the dock has sailed long ago and no matter how much you continue to thrash in the water while hanging onto the cable, its not going to drag that ship back to the dock.

Why is "most often troubling" a thing you want to keep? Its not like you said "most challenging" or "most fun" or "best thing to fight for" or any thing positive at all, just "most troubling".

Last bold, well sure, why not? How in the world is it vexing for you or some non-alt player if i have 15 alts all at cp630+?
How can the fact that you are vexed by what i have done be a thing that matters outside the perimeter of your ears?
Whether my 15 alts all got to cp630+ by all leveling old school vet to vet 16 or all by promoting when cp changed or some mix of the above and other ways... how does that matter for vexing you?

I will give you a hint - if you are playing a character you enjoy, i do not care how within the rules you got there. All i would say about it is "glad to hear you are enjoying yourself." if you got there "the way i did" or "a new way" or because of a rules change - thats all good.

Seems more and more folks want to really be deciding how other people get to (or moreover - are not allowed to get to) their own place of fun.

neverwalk · June 2017

Skyshards are fine the way they are and should not be touched

if you wanna keep changing the game, then give us a creation kit to make mods, that must be approved by zos for lore and OPish.