Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Another Nerf on DragonKnight Tank ...
-
Flaring_PathSoul ShrivenOrphanHelgen wrote: »
At least we admit where we do noob stuff or not. And also, the fact that you do what we did half a year ago, just shows who is improving and who is stuck in this game a new patch has dropped which changed the way tanks can use gear to their advantage entirely.
And yet you wonder why people have stopped taking your guild seriously.
*shakes head*
There's absolutely nothing that changed about igneous shield and equilibrium between Homestead and Morrowind. The only thing that did change was the stamina return, which is not directly related to the amount of health a tank has.
I could be edgy and edit someone else's comment in a quote, but I'd rather not be cryptic.
What happened was Homestead meta builds falling out of fashion, and instead of opting for a group damage support build the meta shifted towards making your group members invincible.
The only real advantage health stacking builds had was group members ignoring mechanics to avoid unnecessary amounts of damage.4 -
Blackleopardex✭✭✭✭My problem with the this is the direct reduction to the shield you give allies. Sure it might be a bit high of a shield but it's just another "don't support your group to much" change, at least that's what it feels like. Other then that, meh..6 NB: Tank, Healer, Mag/Stam PVE&PVP.
I don't read long signatures: https://www.youtube.com/user/Blackleopardex2 -
Woeler✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Flaring_Path wrote: »OrphanHelgen wrote: »
At least we admit where we do noob stuff or not. And also, the fact that you do what we did half a year ago, just shows who is improving and who is stuck in this game a new patch has dropped which changed the way tanks can use gear to their advantage entirely.
And yet you wonder why people have stopped taking your guild seriously.
*shakes head*
There's absolutely nothing that changed about igneous shield and equilibrium between Homestead and Morrowind. The only thing that did change was the stamina return, which is not directly related to the amount of health a tank has.
I could be edgy and edit someone else's comment in a quote, but I'd rather not be cryptic.
What happened was Homestead meta builds falling out of fashion, and instead of opting for a group damage support build the meta shifted towards making your group members invincible.
The only real advantage health stacking builds had was group members ignoring mechanics to avoid unnecessary amounts of damage.
It did however make stacking into stamina or magicka as a resource unnecessary, which naturally results in people going for more health, because it is the only resource that would give you an advantage at all. Using it or not is a choice people should make for themselves. I am just pointing out that not using it doesn't gain people the moral highground, acting like using it is some kind of sin, which it really isn't.2 -
I disagree with both Liofa and Woeler. Having 80k spamming igneous and sustaining with balance is a perfectly legit playstyle. Although overpowered, it brings a lot of support for your group and will help a lot to get through the trial.
I myself used a build like this as I had spent minimal time in the trial, not really knowing what we were up against after 3rd boss on vet. It seemed like a safe bet and well, it worked out.
[snip]
[Edit for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Bill on June 5, 2017 3:31PM3 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭Reminds me when frag shield ised to blow and do dmg when allies' shield would pop dealong crazy aoe dmg.0 -
getemshauna✭✭✭✭✭Flaring_Path wrote: »OrphanHelgen wrote: »
At least we admit where we do noob stuff or not. And also, the fact that you do what we did half a year ago, just shows who is improving and who is stuck in this game a new patch has dropped which changed the way tanks can use gear to their advantage entirely.
And yet you wonder why people have stopped taking your guild seriously.
*shakes head*
There's absolutely nothing that changed about igneous shield and equilibrium between Homestead and Morrowind. The only thing that did change was the stamina return, which is not directly related to the amount of health a tank has.
I could be edgy and edit someone else's comment in a quote, but I'd rather not be cryptic.
What happened was Homestead meta builds falling out of fashion, and instead of opting for a group damage support build the meta shifted towards making your group members invincible.
The only real advantage health stacking builds had was group members ignoring mechanics to avoid unnecessary amounts of damage.
It did however make stacking into stamina or magicka as a resource unnecessary, which naturally results in people going for more health, because it is the only resource that would give you an advantage at all. Using it or not is a choice people should make for themselves. I am just pointing out that not using it doesn't gain people the moral highground, acting like using it is some kind of sin, which it really isn't.
It doesn't change the fact, that stacking health reached the limit of madness. It's completly unacceptable, that you could skip weeks of hard-working about being familiar with content mechanics, to learn avoiding incoming damage effectively, by using actually 2 skills of single person. Problem doesn't lie in health stacking, problem lies in the benefit what you gain by doing it.
Founder of Call of the Undaunted
Youtube Channel3 -
Juli'St✭✭✭✭
In this respect ESO is a typical MMO:GreenhaloX wrote: »I still do not understand this game, and I don't think I ever will. Why the F would the developers create/design a character and given its abilities and skillsets, and it goes online to the public/gamers, then you going to come and say.. oh, too much, lets dwindle that ability or abilities.
1) Update goes to PTS
2) Players provide feedback
3) Devs don't listen to anything that doesn't fit their agenda
4) Update goes live
5) Devs realise what they had been told was correct and the nerfbat swings mightily for weeks after.
ZOS: where am I wrong here?
This!0 -
ZOS_BilladminThere have been multiple posts removed from the thread for flaming. Please keep your disagreements civil and follow the forum rules when commenting further in this discussion.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site1 -
ScottOfLibertalia✭✭✭✭
It did however make stacking into stamina or magicka as a resource unnecessary, which naturally results in people going for more health, because it is the only resource that would give you an advantage at all. Using it or not is a choice people should make for themselves. I am just pointing out that not using it doesn't gain people the moral highground, acting like using it is some kind of sin, which it really isn't.
Moral highground? Sins? Are we still talking about tanking in a video game? I really don't think anyone here is taking things that seriously.
3 -
bstag✭✭Sweetie baby Jesus please take this thread away and replace it with something constructive.1 -
Oompuh✭✭✭✭✭RIP Balance. We hardly knew ye. So.. how is everyone's Magicka recovery looking?Xbox NA - Oompa
Khajiit DK Tank
Founder of Major Aegis
Main Tank of Dissonant Crusade Uprising Savages2 -
Frenkthevile✭✭✭✭@ZOS_RichLambert, @Wrobel
People other than tanks use Equilibrium.....so out of touch.....please resign
1 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭those changes are pretty minimal, especially the balance one, if you keep the damage shield % on yourself you can still spam igneous and take bare minimum damage, just need to be careful in the timing.
The only part that is off putting is the developer comment.
That's a pretty bold statement to make based on the top 1% and kinda unprofessional way of going about it, but thats just me. I wouldn't go around saying easier than intended unless something is buggedDragonknights stacking Max Health could create extremely powerful damage shields on multiple allies at the same time, making some encounters easier than intended
@ZOS_RichLambert @Nifty2g ,
It is very silly for them to talk about their intentions.
Based on the achievements for this DLC, the developers intended, at some point, for people to finish the Trial hastily, finish the trial without deaths, and even finish the trial without deaths and hastily.
What exact aspect of the trial became done in an unintended way when they have the achievement based expectations of players?
I'd like to see the big fat arbitrary scale that their conclusion is based off.
My best guess is that someone who should have minded their own business whispered to a developer about something that they personally didn't like.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.2 -
ol_BANK_lo✭✭✭✭✭Artemiisia wrote: »OP you forgot this:
Increased the strength of the damage shield you apply to yourself by 200%. The total shield value on yourself should remain unchanged after these changes.
so not a nerf for the tank, but the effect it has on its allies
The whole purpose of the build was to shield allies during high damage phases. The tank him/herself didn't need a bigger shield.3 -
LadyLavina✭✭✭✭✭
✭
In this respect ESO is a typical MMO:GreenhaloX wrote: »I still do not understand this game, and I don't think I ever will. Why the F would the developers create/design a character and given its abilities and skillsets, and it goes online to the public/gamers, then you going to come and say.. oh, too much, lets dwindle that ability or abilities.
1) Update goes to PTS
2) Players provide feedback
3) Devs don't listen to anything that doesn't fit their agenda
4) Update goes live
5) Devs realise what they had been told was correct and the nerfbat swings mightily for weeks after.
ZOS: where am I wrong here?
Hit the nail right on the head. I hate to always reference CCP Games/Eve Online but ZOS should really take a page from their book. I mean CCP is having a damn focus group before making changes to a particularly popular/controversial ship type. Obviously I don't expect ZOS to do that, but if they engaged and actually took feedback into account it would go a long way. Right now the "feedback threads" seem to be lip service and nothing more. (i.e. the sorc feedback thread from the patch where they nerfed shields from 20 sec to 6 sec. Not saying I'm for or against that, but that thread was ignored completely)
ZOS if you happen to see this comment, I love you guys, I really do. You built something great that I've put thousands of hours into. It's just reached a point where I can't withhold the more direct/unpleasantly worded criticisms.Edited by LadyLavina on June 5, 2017 3:54PMPC - NA @LadyLavina 1800+ CP PvP Tank and PvP Healer1 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Slight nerf is slight. The amount of group utility DK Tank has is still far and away better than any other class and still hands down the best tank class so really, calm the **** down people.
So the new trial, that some people have already cleared, is going to be slightly harder. Big deal. You act as though this change makes it impossible to complete now, which is clearly not the case.
Argonian forever0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't really give a netch about all this guild-posturing and trial scores.
What I care about is that my buddy finally had fun in this game again, because it is a build that is fun and intuitively makes sense. It requires dedication to a specific stat to make use of synergies between this stat and several skills, fulfilling a narrow role in a unique way. Or in the immortal words of Todd Howard: It just works.
This really cannot be said for most of the game, I'm afraid.
Was it a bit too effective? Maybe.
But it leaves a very sour taste when every time unique and fun builds are developed in this game, ZOS steps in to say "no fun allowed", to shoo everyone back into the sanctioned playpen of bleh.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.6 -
victorhrpereira✭✭✭So a balance change in an incremental patch? Can we have balance changes for proc sets too?Edited by victorhrpereira on June 5, 2017 5:13PMMy girls :
Cecily - Stam. DragonKnight - EP
Valky Bladesister - Stam. Nightblade - EP
Serah Sunspade - Stam. Templar - EP
Cynthia Vukein - Mag. Sorcerer - EP
Lúmina - Mag. Templar - EP
Shauna Ivy - Mag. DragonKnight - EP
Skyla Moon - Stam. Sorcerer- EP
Jasmine Crystal - Mag. Nightblade - EP3 -
CTSCold✭✭✭I'm actually curious: So how big we're these shields? Why don't they just use bone shield, I get that it has a synergy so its rotation breaking but is it really that much worse?
0 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm actually curious: So how big we're these shields? Why don't they just use bone shield, I get that it has a synergy so its rotation breaking but is it really that much worse?
Like 13-14k on 5 allies around you. Double that on yourself. It's not as great as it sounds. The limited radius means that it's not universally useful in all fights, and 2 DK tanks tend to overwrite each other's shields instead of covering the whole group. It mostly helped a bit on the final boss of vHoF.
These kinds of health stacking builds made no sense pre-morrowind because more max stamina helped quite a bit with your sustain from the battle roar and helping hands passives. It also buffed up your vigor so you could keep a meaningful HoT up on the group.
But since they normalised the returns from those passives and made your max stamina irrelevant there's no reason not to go for max health instead. Incoming damage is also very high on some of the bosses in vHoF so the extra max health is kind of a must.Edited by Valencer on June 5, 2017 4:14PM1 -
Elrosahir✭✭✭✭Play as you want is gone - ZOS nerf alternativs builds or meta builds only because they dont like them.
Ariana Elensar - Magicka Sorcerer
Aldmeri Dominion - EU - PC5 -
Oompuh✭✭✭✭✭I'm actually curious: So how big we're these shields? Why don't they just use bone shield, I get that it has a synergy so its rotation breaking but is it really that much worse?
Bone shield requires you to go to the tank and hit a synergy. So if the boss has a cleave, rip. Secondly, the shield is based on 60% of the dds health so it can't scale with the tanks health. It also costs stamina and doesn't return staminaXbox NA - Oompa
Khajiit DK Tank
Founder of Major Aegis
Main Tank of Dissonant Crusade Uprising Savages0 -
Oompuh✭✭✭✭✭
.... i was saying we have to use mag recovery instead of the skill balance... nothing happened with mag recoveryEdited by Oompuh on June 5, 2017 4:11PMXbox NA - Oompa
Khajiit DK Tank
Founder of Major Aegis
Main Tank of Dissonant Crusade Uprising Savages1 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.1 -
rk110132✭✭Meh, the equilibrium change is not even that bad. The ratio you get from it is still the same and now you can even fine tune your health to magicka conversion. It really is an easy-mode button though.
The igneous change is obviously not a nerf to tanks. More like a nerf to stamDDs but who cares about them anyway? They can all just go back to crafting/extra bag space role...
I can still play as stam DD even 7k shields are ok 2 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Okay so you're not giving out 12k shields, you're only giving out 8k shields... Still pretty good.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade2
