I've yet to see a build in which Shacklebreaker is mathematically the best set.

NightbladeMechanics · June 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

BTW why no list for Templars OP?

Haven't seen them. Ironically, Shackle giving some extra stam should be attractive to magplars, but I've not seen a single one. It's the ranged specs wanting to use Witchmother's that have all taken to the set. I'm personally not willing to lose 1k health, 1k magicka, and 4k stam to gain 300 magicka regen when I could just use a higher sustain set than Shackle.

boundsy88 · June 2017

shackle is good because mag builds can use it to build for their weaknesses. which is stamina. block and cc break costs so much in no cp and BGs. and with it you get mag regen and the spell damage. many reasons for this set to be concidered. its just a well balanced set with sustain and damage built in but doesnt excel at any one thing.

raasdal · June 2017

Well, im more amazed on the hype for impregnable to be honest. People keep forgetting that BG critrates are 10-30 percent. Not the 50-70 percent of CP campaigns. And those who do have high critrates (NB) will kill you with noncrit procs anyhow. Anyway, that was off topic.

Derra · June 2017

Shackebreaker is a great set.
However i don´t see it being particularly useful for anything but a dw/s&b build on magDK or magPlar. It´s a set that requires to be permanently active. That rules it out on any pure staff/2h weapon builds.

For that matter i see a lot of suboptimal 5p 5p 1p builds this patch. I consider any build bypassing a 2p undaunted set not optimised.

@NightbladeMechanics why would anyone willingly run magnus over seducer? Magnus is absolutely terrible compared to seducer if used on a build utilizing any costreduction.

Biro123 · June 2017

I'm liking shacklebreaker/witchmothers at the mo.
I was using lich and tri-stat, but the out of combat recov just felt too low. Especially when the proc was on cool down. I often found myself finishing one fight, and having to start the next while really low on mag.. So I was looking for a way to get a higher consistent mag recov.

I looked at Amberplasm (which I don't have and have never tried) but the stam recov looks like overkill unless you're relying on dark exchange, which I can only fit on my overload bar and is too slow now anyway.

So looking at shackle +wichmothers, I get more mag regen than amber, but less stam recov which is what I was looking for. I have less Max stam than my old lich setup, but with a few well-fitted pieces, I can dodge enough to get out of most nasty situations.
I've had to replace a DMG glyph for recov, but this alone gives me enough recov in all ways ( this is for cp open world) letting me run a DMG set with it. It also gives Max mag which I love on a sorc.
If i remember these correctly, I currently get over 51k mag, almost 14k stam, over 2k mag recov, and almost 1k stam recov. Spell damage is lower, but running DW to make up for that.

Overall, it does lose damage compared to my pre-morrowind build, but it has a LOT more sustain, even considering the sustain nerfs.

arkansas_ESO · June 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

So what is BiS for Magblade now ? It doesn't matter if you tell me , I will find a way to die with it on ...

@Rohamad_Ali

According to senpai,

Bezt set ups are Trans/Riposte/Lich + Maiden/Necro + Undaunted.

Spinner is also a good front bar, and for the record, Malubeth has been feeling really nice tonight with Trans + Riposte. The heals were quite strong with all that mitigation behind them.

I'm currently gathering Impreg pieces to try Impreg + Sanctuary + 1 Kena. I'm going to make the most obnoxious heal over time juggernaut mageblade I possibly can. lol

Is healing received additive or multiplicative?

Derra · June 2017

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

So what is BiS for Magblade now ? It doesn't matter if you tell me , I will find a way to die with it on ...

@Rohamad_Ali

According to senpai,

Bezt set ups are Trans/Riposte/Lich + Maiden/Necro + Undaunted.

Spinner is also a good front bar, and for the record, Malubeth has been feeling really nice tonight with Trans + Riposte. The heals were quite strong with all that mitigation behind them.

I'm currently gathering Impreg pieces to try Impreg + Sanctuary + 1 Kena. I'm going to make the most obnoxious heal over time juggernaut mageblade I possibly can. lol

Is healing received additive or multiplicative?

Healing received is additive with other healing received bonuses and multiplicative with any outgoing healing increased bonuses - as far as i know.

Irylia · June 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I've seen mediocre sorc, stamblade, mageblade, and DK builds hyping it, but each build has been outclassed by builds with other sets.

The theory behind Shacklebreaker is that by contributing to your off stat, you can run flat stat glyphs with either bistat food or Witchmother's / Dubious Camoran Throne. However, the bistat food build path leaves you lacking sustain, and the drink build path leaves you lacking damage compared to other builds.

I had been excited prior to early access, expecting this set to create some nice build diversity, but so far it hasn't been in the numbers. Anyone have Shackle builds that sustain, survive, and deal damage better than alternatives?

Shackle magicka sorc is outclassed by Magnus + Amber Plasm.

Shackle stam sorc is outclassed by proc sets + Impreg.

Shackle stamblade is outclassed by proc sets + Shadow Walker or Impreg.

Shackle mageblade is outclassed by Trans/Riposte/Lich + Maiden/Necro + Undaunted.

Shackle mDK builds are outclassed by Impreg + Desert Rose or Sun + Riposte.

Where does this new set excel better than Impreg or Amber Plasm or other setups?

Lol. Mediocre sorc builds.
K

Brrrofski · June 2017

Why is it not worth it on Stam builds. On xbox so can't try it out yet.

Surely it'd be good on a Stam sorc/Stam dk. In no CP tri stat for is nice so you can convert magica to Stam.

Using this set with dubious throne would be greater sustain no? You could then probably use more damage glyphs on jewellery so makes up for damage you gain using other sets.

Black rose is meh now, fury will be bad in BGs due to low crit, ravager doesn't proc often enough on them (only use it on stamplar). What other heavy sets are worthwhile? Few tri glyphs on armor and I think it'd work great. I'll try it out this week when patch drops.

Hutch679 · June 2017

So VMA sharpened destro, 5 shackle breaker, 5 amber plasm isn't that great? How would seducer give more damage than shackle breaker?

Jitterbug · June 2017

Shackle + necropo mag warden

Jack style

cschwingeb14_ESO · June 2017

I ran shackle-Amberplasm, and the build had to much stam regen and not enough Max magicka. I went back to Amber-willpower-2x monster-vMA with tri food.

The problem with witch brew is that the value of it is about 2000 stats less than tri-foood (going by set bonuses). So for PvP, where off-stat matters, tri-food with another 5-piece is better than shackle with witch brew.

Same problem with Cameron's and bone pirate actually

Miruku · June 2017

It fills int he gap for alot of needed stats where we wont get them anywhere else.

Op on stamblade

Hutch679 · June 2017

So for battlegrounds what should a mag sorc run with amberplasm then? I thought shackle breaker + amber plasma looked looked pretty OP on paper.

Joy_Division · June 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's not for damage. But I prefer it on mag sorc for drawn out BG combat that do not have CP.

I initially ran amber + tri stat food and while my damage was strong, what invariably happened was after getting a flurry of kills, the other team would come in and I ran out of resources.

The Witchmother Brew food is more efficient in getting regen than adding cost reduction/regen glyphs.

So I switched to Shacklebreaker + Amber + Witchmother. I do not hit as hard, but on a sorc, it's not necessary to super spec out for damage because there is such a thing as overkill and I think having a higher magicka pool when the other team shows up is worth it.

I do not like having less than 14K stamina, but it's doable with 1.2k regen.

Sometimes what's better on paper doesn't always work out in actual practice.

I have had better success with the Shackle + Witchmother than Amber + Tri-stat. But I'd only use that setup for Battlegrounds.

Was your initial build Amber + Willpower + Undaunted with tristat food?

Yes. I try to fit in an undaunted set with every build because a full armor bonus from two pieces is very efficient. I also have a maelstrom/master staff so it's a natural fit with the willpower jewelry (also efficient).

I liked that setup and its damage. However, at least for me, it did not have enough resource recovery. I ran some numbers and it turns out that once you begin adding multiple resource glyphs (recovery or reduction) it's a poor value compared to Witchmothers - eventually the damage is lowered to a Shacklebreaker build and there is less resource recovery.

What this boils down to is playstyle and what we are comfortable with. I'm sure some players would prefer my original build with more stats and damage because they don't mind husbanding their resources. With the blocking/dodging denying heavy attacks this patch, I just prefer to have more innate recovery on a magicka build because their heavy attacks are so telegraphed.

Have you tried Seducer or Magnus with Amber to compare Shackle to? That's what we're discussing.

Thought about it. Would go with Alteration Mastery over Seducer. I have gold Magnus still in my bank somewhere. May still do it. Been only running the Shacklebreaker since the weekend. Just getting a feel for it. It's working better, at least for the moment. I might come across a match that makes me regret the lower stat pools. We'll see.

What I think can be said is the Shacklebreaker set is a viable and efficient set that players can have success with. It might not be the best and fall short of the potential other builds have, but after playing with it I can see why people have gone this route.

Hutch679 · June 2017

I like playing either dual wield or vMA staff, always with a resto back bar on my mag sorc. Was going to run shackle breaker and amberplasm with 2 willpower swords, or my vma sharpened inferno staff. Now I'm rethinking it. What would be good to run with amberplasm? I'm running 3 jewelry 2 body for amberplasm atm.

Xvorg · June 2017

Wyrd tree is cheap and has a purge each 15 secs...

Izaki · June 2017

I've always felt that Amberplasm was trash but that's my opinion. I mean you're not going to pull off a single Dark Conversion against another Sorc, and seeing there are only Sorcs in Cyro, why bother? Shacklebreaker isn't amazing either, but it can work as a second set.

Hutch679 · June 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I've always felt that Amberplasm was trash but that's my opinion. I mean you're not going to pull off a single Dark Conversion against another Sorc, and seeing there are only Sorcs in Cyro, why bother? Shacklebreaker isn't amazing either, but it can work as a second set.

I don't use dark conversion my sustain is high enough that I don't need it. Amberplasm stam regen is for break free in nCP.

krathos · June 2017

Shackle is alright on some setups, notably for mag sorc and mag warden. I've run it on DK a little bit.

Joy_Division · June 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

Wyrd tree is cheap and has a purge each 15 secs...

If I could get all the jewelry in Arcane, I'd use that set.

Xvorg · June 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Wyrd tree is cheap and has a purge each 15 secs...

If I could get all the jewelry in Arcane, I'd use that set.

Yup... that's the worst part of the set, but 4/5 pieces heavy ins't that bad

AverageJo3Gam3r · June 2017

Haven't run my magSorc in pvp in forever. Thinking about dusting him off this patch. Used to run engine guardian+spinners+willpower+vMA staves. I never see engine guardian being used anymore. Do people interrupt it that much now that no one uses it?

NightbladeMechanics · June 2017

@Derra I used Magus + Amber with all damage glyphs and Thief in no CP. No cost reduction in the mix, and still plenty of sustain. I do like Seducer more, but its damage doesn't exceed the Shackle + Witchmother's builds' by quite as much. The max stats still do though.

Joy_Division wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's not for damage. But I prefer it on mag sorc for drawn out BG combat that do not have CP.

I initially ran amber + tri stat food and while my damage was strong, what invariably happened was after getting a flurry of kills, the other team would come in and I ran out of resources.

The Witchmother Brew food is more efficient in getting regen than adding cost reduction/regen glyphs.

So I switched to Shacklebreaker + Amber + Witchmother. I do not hit as hard, but on a sorc, it's not necessary to super spec out for damage because there is such a thing as overkill and I think having a higher magicka pool when the other team shows up is worth it.

I do not like having less than 14K stamina, but it's doable with 1.2k regen.

Sometimes what's better on paper doesn't always work out in actual practice.

I have had better success with the Shackle + Witchmother than Amber + Tri-stat. But I'd only use that setup for Battlegrounds.

Was your initial build Amber + Willpower + Undaunted with tristat food?

Yes. I try to fit in an undaunted set with every build because a full armor bonus from two pieces is very efficient. I also have a maelstrom/master staff so it's a natural fit with the willpower jewelry (also efficient).

I liked that setup and its damage. However, at least for me, it did not have enough resource recovery. I ran some numbers and it turns out that once you begin adding multiple resource glyphs (recovery or reduction) it's a poor value compared to Witchmothers - eventually the damage is lowered to a Shacklebreaker build and there is less resource recovery.

What this boils down to is playstyle and what we are comfortable with. I'm sure some players would prefer my original build with more stats and damage because they don't mind husbanding their resources. With the blocking/dodging denying heavy attacks this patch, I just prefer to have more innate recovery on a magicka build because their heavy attacks are so telegraphed.

Have you tried Seducer or Magnus with Amber to compare Shackle to? That's what we're discussing.

Thought about it. Would go with Alteration Mastery over Seducer. I have gold Magnus still in my bank somewhere. May still do it. Been only running the Shacklebreaker since the weekend. Just getting a feel for it. It's working better, at least for the moment. I might come across a match that makes me regret the lower stat pools. We'll see.

What I think can be said is the Shacklebreaker set is a viable and efficient set that players can have success with. It might not be the best and fall short of the potential other builds have, but after playing with it I can see why people have gone this route.

I agree. This is what I'm observing as well.

Jitterbug wrote: »

Shackle + necropo mag warden

Jack style

I have no idea about Warden build patterns. I've heard Jack is having great success, but he will be the first to tell you that he finds success on many suboptimal builds.

Miruku wrote: »

It fills int he gap for alot of needed stats where we wont get them anywhere else.

Op on stamblade

Have you tried Shadow Walker back bar? Talk about op. Yiko and Leif are absolutely tearing it up right now. You're a good stamblade, so you'll find success on anything. Shadow Walker takes the class to the next level imo.

Hutch679 wrote: »

So for battlegrounds what should a mag sorc run with amberplasm then? I thought shackle breaker + amber plasma looked looked pretty OP on paper.

Probably Seducer + Amber. Better stats on paper all around, more consistent sustain then Magnus.

Akinos · June 2017

Shacklebreaker and warmaiden on a magtemplar is pretty strong

NightbladeMechanics · June 2017

Akinos wrote: »

Shacklebreaker and warmaiden on a magtemplar is pretty strong

That sounds like a good combo. Are you using Witchmother's? Magplar is less spammy than other classes, so a cdr set like Seducer probably isn't as effective.

War Maiden.

Akinos · June 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

Shacklebreaker and warmaiden on a magtemplar is pretty strong

That sounds like a good combo. Are you using Witchmother's? Magplar is less spammy than other classes, so a cdr set like Seducer probably isn't as effective.

War Maiden.

I'll let you know once I make my shacklebreaker set

NightbladeMechanics · June 2017

raasdal wrote: »

Well, im more amazed on the hype for impregnable to be honest. People keep forgetting that BG critrates are 10-30 percent. Not the 50-70 percent of CP campaigns. And those who do have high critrates (NB) will kill you with noncrit procs anyhow. Anyway, that was off topic.

You should have about 40% crit in no CP if you're in light or medium armor, which seems ideal this patch (base + armor passives + thief + major prophecy/savagery). Also Viper has two lines of crit, and the proctatoes will be attacking with lots of non procs too.

Waffennacht · June 2017

Akinos wrote: »

Shacklebreaker and warmaiden on a magtemplar is pretty strong

That was a route I was gonna try too, should be easy to get. Good jewelry should be really solid. War Maiden also boosts unstable core/total dark (which is actually pretty underated)

NightbladeMechanics · June 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

Shacklebreaker and warmaiden on a magtemplar is pretty strong

That was a route I was gonna try too, should be easy to get. Good jewelry should be really solid. War Maiden also boosts unstable core/total dark (which is actually pretty underated)

pls no..