I've yet to see a build in which Shacklebreaker is mathematically the best set.

NightbladeMechanics · June 2017

I've seen mediocre sorc, stamblade, mageblade, and DK builds hyping it, but each build has been outclassed by builds with other sets.

The theory behind Shacklebreaker is that by contributing to your off stat, you can run flat stat glyphs with either bistat food or Witchmother's / Dubious Camoran Throne. However, the bistat food build path leaves you lacking sustain, and the drink build path leaves you lacking damage compared to other builds.

I had been excited prior to early access, expecting this set to create some nice build diversity, but so far it hasn't been in the numbers. Anyone have Shackle builds that sustain, survive, and deal damage better than alternatives?

Shackle magicka sorc is outclassed by Magnus + Amber Plasm.

Shackle stam sorc is outclassed by proc sets + Impreg.

Shackle stamblade is outclassed by proc sets + Shadow Walker or Impreg.

Shackle mageblade is outclassed by Trans/Riposte/Lich + Maiden/Necro + Undaunted.

Shackle mDK builds are outclassed by Impreg + Desert Rose or Sun + Riposte.

Where does this new set excel better than Impreg or Amber Plasm or other setups?

Araviel2 · June 2017

its pretty late and im tired, but how about using it to just go over-sustain whit the help of drinks and then keena for quick selective bursts whit quick recovery afterwards?

Dread_Guy · June 2017

The only thing I can think of that shackle breaker is a craftable set so its more accessible than the other sets you mentioned.

Tonturri · June 2017

Dread_Knight_N7 wrote: »

The only thing I can think of that shackle breaker is a craftable set so its more accessible than the other sets you mentioned.

Pretty much this. I'm too damn lazy to actively farm amberplasm. I also happen to be poor. Alas.

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2017

I dont see the hype either. Impreg though... finally a set that lets you use other armour traits. Well fitted is something i may really look into.

Zander98 · June 2017

How is magnus/plasm > shackle/plasm for damage.
Magnus gives +1 max mag and +1 sell damage.
Shackle gives +2K max mag and spell damage. On...and another steam regen to stack with plasm.
More mag =more damage and larger shields.
In non cp that combo gets me well over 3K spell damage buffed, over 33K Mac mag, almost 2K mag regen and around 1200 stam regen.

Waffennacht · June 2017

In a case to case comparison Shackle breaker provides more magicka than amberplasm or Magnus while contributing the same spell damage or more,

I suppose the idea is shackle breaker would provide more damage than Magnus or Amberplasm and still help with stamina management

Edit: yes Magnus and Amberplasm would both provide better resources, breaker provides more damage and some resource management

NightbladeMechanics · June 2017

Zander98 wrote: »

How is magnus/plasm > shackle/plasm for damage.
Magnus gives +1 max mag and +1 sell damage.
Shackle gives +2K max mag and spell damage. On...and another steam regen to stack with plasm.
More mag =more damage and larger shields.
In non cp that combo gets me well over 3K spell damage buffed, over 33K Mac mag, almost 2K mag regen and around 1200 stam regen.

Shackle + Amber with Witchmother's needs some prismatics to reach a decent health and stamina level. It sustains the same as Magnus + Amber with tristat food and flat magicka glyphs, but its damage is lower. If you go Shackle + Amber with bistat food and flat magicka glyphs, you deal more damage but can't sustain.

Waffennacht · June 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Zander98 wrote: »

How is magnus/plasm > shackle/plasm for damage.
Magnus gives +1 max mag and +1 sell damage.
Shackle gives +2K max mag and spell damage. On...and another steam regen to stack with plasm.
More mag =more damage and larger shields.
In non cp that combo gets me well over 3K spell damage buffed, over 33K Mac mag, almost 2K mag regen and around 1200 stam regen.

Shackle + Amber with Witchmother's needs some prismatics to reach a decent health and stamina level. It sustains the same as Magnus + Amber with tristat food and flat magicka glyphs, but its damage is lower. If you go Shackle + Amber with bistat food and flat magicka glyphs, you deal more damage but can't sustain.

Can't sustain with what set up? In PvP or PvE? I can't help but feel if you're running a resto staff there are no sustain issues

Edit: example, I can run Magicka Drain Poison on Resto Staff and have zero sustain issues in PvP at 1100 regen

HoloYoitsu · June 2017

It's not about being BIS in dmg, mathematically it just isn't. What it does, at least for sorc, is allow you to run witchmothers while staying at 12.5k stam.

I personally only run it in combo with amberplasm; you end up with 1.3k stam regen. Then since both sets have a dmg bonus, you can run 2 regen/1 cost reduction enchant on jewelry, giving 3k mag regen. That works solidly as a BG setup, making it very hard for ppl to lock you down. The downside of course is you lose the undaunted set, but running 2 willpower swords & master resto back bar isn't that much of a loss compared to 2 max mag pieces.

There's other builds that fit DW and have diff strengths, it's all just about using diff builds in diff situations with these sustain nerfs.

Waffennacht · June 2017

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

It's not about being BIS in dmg, mathematically it just isn't. What it does, at least for sorc, is allow you to run witchmothers while staying at 12.5k stam.

I personally only run it in combo with amberplasm; you end up with 1.3k stam regen. Then since both sets have a dmg bonus, you can run 2 regen/1 cost reduction enchant on jewelry, giving 3k mag regen. That works solidly as a BG setup, making it very hard for ppl to lock you down. The downside of course is you lose the undaunted set, but running 2 willpower swords & master resto back bar isn't that much of a loss compared to 2 max mag pieces.

There's other builds that fit DW and have diff strengths, it's all just about using diff builds in diff situations with these sustain nerfs.

That much Stam Regen and a resto staff? I bet you get a ton of hate whispers!

olsborg · June 2017

In terms of sheer dps or burst, shackle isnt gonna win any prizes. But it offers some utility without sacrificing too much dmg. Thats is my opinion at any rate. + its craftable so you dont have to grind your arse off(wich is mindnumbingly boring)

DocFrost72 · June 2017

Funny how I saw it and thought pve hybrid, but others saw pvp off stat buff. Cool to see different ideas discussed civilly

On topic, the best use I can see is, as others said, a way to sustain both pools at expense of damage.

One more thing to consider; if you play with just the base game you can have a friend craft you SB, but no one can give you amber plasm.

Waffennacht · June 2017

BTW why no list for Templars OP?

HoloYoitsu · June 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

It's not about being BIS in dmg, mathematically it just isn't. What it does, at least for sorc, is allow you to run witchmothers while staying at 12.5k stam.

I personally only run it in combo with amberplasm; you end up with 1.3k stam regen. Then since both sets have a dmg bonus, you can run 2 regen/1 cost reduction enchant on jewelry, giving 3k mag regen. That works solidly as a BG setup, making it very hard for ppl to lock you down. The downside of course is you lose the undaunted set, but running 2 willpower swords & master resto back bar isn't that much of a loss compared to 2 max mag pieces.

There's other builds that fit DW and have diff strengths, it's all just about using diff builds in diff situations with these sustain nerfs.

That much Stam Regen and a resto staff? I bet you get a ton of hate whispers!

Among other things, apparently I have a "break free macro bot". And I guess "no one is worried about getting farmed" by my "reactive armor build", which might be technically correct by virtue of me not wearing that build.

And apparently Miat has sworn a blood oath against me cuz he couldn't gank me.

thankyourat · June 2017

I think there are some good things to shacklebreaker mainly the increase to your stamina pool i was probably going to test it on my magblade because I'm not going to use siphoning attacks anymore. I don't really like to play in cyrodill on a magicka builds with less than 13k stamina it also has a line of stam regen. it can have some use on magicka builds because it would allow you to run whichmothers which you probably wouldn't be able to run otherwise because your stam pool would be too low. It's also craftable so it's more accessible.

NightbladeMechanics · June 2017

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

It's not about being BIS in dmg, mathematically it just isn't. What it does, at least for sorc, is allow you to run witchmothers while staying at 12.5k stam.

I personally only run it in combo with amberplasm; you end up with 1.3k stam regen. Then since both sets have a dmg bonus, you can run 2 regen/1 cost reduction enchant on jewelry, giving 3k mag regen. That works solidly as a BG setup, making it very hard for ppl to lock you down. The downside of course is you lose the undaunted set, but running 2 willpower swords & master resto back bar isn't that much of a loss compared to 2 max mag pieces.

There's other builds that fit DW and have diff strengths, it's all just about using diff builds in diff situations with these sustain nerfs.

It is about being BiS for damage after reaching functional levels of sustain and max stamina with which you're comfortable. So why is running Witchmother's so key? Why not run tristat food and get higher max stats and damage if you can get sufficient sustain from armor sets?

You're running Shackle to get one more line of stam regen? Are you using Witchmother's or tristat food with those sustain glyphs? That's soooo much damage traded for sustain from glyphs. What are your tooltip values and stats running that setup compared to Magnus or Seducer with tristat food, one stam regen glyph, and two damage glyphs?

Waffennacht wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Zander98 wrote: »

How is magnus/plasm > shackle/plasm for damage.
Magnus gives +1 max mag and +1 sell damage.
Shackle gives +2K max mag and spell damage. On...and another steam regen to stack with plasm.
More mag =more damage and larger shields.
In non cp that combo gets me well over 3K spell damage buffed, over 33K Mac mag, almost 2K mag regen and around 1200 stam regen.

Shackle + Amber with Witchmother's needs some prismatics to reach a decent health and stamina level. It sustains the same as Magnus + Amber with tristat food and flat magicka glyphs, but its damage is lower. If you go Shackle + Amber with bistat food and flat magicka glyphs, you deal more damage but can't sustain.

Can't sustain with what set up? In PvP or PvE? I can't help but feel if you're running a resto staff there are no sustain issues

Edit: example, I can run Magicka Drain Poison on Resto Staff and have zero sustain issues in PvP at 1100 regen

If you're under heavy pressure, you can't always rely on getting heavy attacks off for sustain. What size group are you talking about running with? I'm talking about small scale or BGs against skilled enemy teams. With proc sets, that is a LOT of incoming damage to heavy attack during.

BraidasNM · June 2017

hey hey you let ppl run w/e bad sets they want!

CavalryPK · June 2017

The only reason I used shaklebraker was to get that extra stam for my magblade. So I could rolldodge then cloak.

HoloYoitsu · June 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

It's not about being BIS in dmg, mathematically it just isn't. What it does, at least for sorc, is allow you to run witchmothers while staying at 12.5k stam.

I personally only run it in combo with amberplasm; you end up with 1.3k stam regen. Then since both sets have a dmg bonus, you can run 2 regen/1 cost reduction enchant on jewelry, giving 3k mag regen. That works solidly as a BG setup, making it very hard for ppl to lock you down. The downside of course is you lose the undaunted set, but running 2 willpower swords & master resto back bar isn't that much of a loss compared to 2 max mag pieces.

There's other builds that fit DW and have diff strengths, it's all just about using diff builds in diff situations with these sustain nerfs.

It is about being BiS for damage after reaching functional levels of sustain and max stamina with which you're comfortable. So why is running Witchmother's so key? Why not run tristat food and get higher max stats and damage if you can get sufficient sustain from armor sets?

You're running Shackle to get one more line of stam regen? Are you using Witchmother's or tristat food with those sustain glyphs? That's soooo much damage traded for sustain from glyphs. What are your tooltip values and stats running that setup compared to Magnus or Seducer with tristat food, one stam regen glyph, and two damage glyphs?

I use it purely for BGs, so I'm taking no CP, cost poisons everywhere, and all the game modes into consideration. With the regen, I can just pop an immove speed pot and zoom zoom with the relic or between capture flags without putting myself at much risk.

On my DW builds I simply aim for 1986 unbuffed spell dmg, then either stack regen or max mag depending on what the build is. With this build in witchmothers, I'm still at something like 43.5k Max mag, so dmg is fine. You can absolutely just use tristat food with it as well, but that defeats the entire purpose of the build.

The whole point is to be able to stay super spammy, dodge roll whenever I want, ect. In the inevitability that I'm stacked with cost increase poisons, I don't suddenly hit a wall. If I was going to go tristat food on this, I would just as well switch back to my standard Seducers/Spinners no CP build for 4K more pen and the ability to use an undaunted set. The difference is the sustain takes more finesse.

Obviously this just goes for DW, as a destro build its easier to sustain fine with lower regen.

FYI, you can't use Magnus on a sorc: the proc sound for the Magnus bonus is the same as a frag proc sound, or at least it was last time I checked way back. I couldn't stand it.

Waffennacht · June 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

It's not about being BIS in dmg, mathematically it just isn't. What it does, at least for sorc, is allow you to run witchmothers while staying at 12.5k stam.

I personally only run it in combo with amberplasm; you end up with 1.3k stam regen. Then since both sets have a dmg bonus, you can run 2 regen/1 cost reduction enchant on jewelry, giving 3k mag regen. That works solidly as a BG setup, making it very hard for ppl to lock you down. The downside of course is you lose the undaunted set, but running 2 willpower swords & master resto back bar isn't that much of a loss compared to 2 max mag pieces.

There's other builds that fit DW and have diff strengths, it's all just about using diff builds in diff situations with these sustain nerfs.

It is about being BiS for damage after reaching functional levels of sustain and max stamina with which you're comfortable. So why is running Witchmother's so key? Why not run tristat food and get higher max stats and damage if you can get sufficient sustain from armor sets?

You're running Shackle to get one more line of stam regen? Are you using Witchmother's or tristat food with those sustain glyphs? That's soooo much damage traded for sustain from glyphs. What are your tooltip values and stats running that setup compared to Magnus or Seducer with tristat food, one stam regen glyph, and two damage glyphs?

Waffennacht wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Zander98 wrote: »

How is magnus/plasm > shackle/plasm for damage.
Magnus gives +1 max mag and +1 sell damage.
Shackle gives +2K max mag and spell damage. On...and another steam regen to stack with plasm.
More mag =more damage and larger shields.
In non cp that combo gets me well over 3K spell damage buffed, over 33K Mac mag, almost 2K mag regen and around 1200 stam regen.

Shackle + Amber with Witchmother's needs some prismatics to reach a decent health and stamina level. It sustains the same as Magnus + Amber with tristat food and flat magicka glyphs, but its damage is lower. If you go Shackle + Amber with bistat food and flat magicka glyphs, you deal more damage but can't sustain.

Can't sustain with what set up? In PvP or PvE? I can't help but feel if you're running a resto staff there are no sustain issues

Edit: example, I can run Magicka Drain Poison on Resto Staff and have zero sustain issues in PvP at 1100 regen

If you're under heavy pressure, you can't always rely on getting heavy attacks off for sustain. What size group are you talking about running with? I'm talking about small scale or BGs against skilled enemy teams. With proc sets, that is a LOT of incoming damage to heavy attack during.

Well that does change, I don't have access to BGs so... I'm spit balling ideas lol

Ishammael · June 2017

The bottom line is that tri food is the most efficient set of stat bonuses in the game. Running witch mother or the stam equivalent costs you a set bonus of health and mana, each. And you only get 320 regen. It ends up being not worth it because there are so many good sustain sets which are worth equivalent or more regen: amber, Seducer, Magnus, lich, rose, etc.

Basically, the way to think about shackle is to rearrange the set bonuses:
Mana
Mana regen
Spell dmg
2k stam, stam regen, mana

Shackle one of the most efficient sets in terms of raw stats. Problem is, the extra stam doesn't help you after a certain amount (on a magicka build). Better to get more dmg or defense or sustain.

Xsorus · June 2017

I'm going to try Shackle/Impreg/Valkyn on my Magicka DK once I get around to actually gathering skyshards on him.

NightbladeMechanics · June 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

I think there are some good things to shacklebreaker mainly the increase to your stamina pool i was probably going to test it on my magblade because I'm not going to use siphoning attacks anymore. I don't really like to play in cyrodill on a magicka builds with less than 13k stamina it also has a line of stam regen. it can have some use on magicka builds because it would allow you to run whichmothers which you probably wouldn't be able to run otherwise because your stam pool would be too low. It's also craftable so it's more accessible.

I find prismatics and Leeching Strikes sufficient when running Witchmother's, but I've moved away from that this patch. I'm having better success building more sustain in order to use tristat food. My stamina stays high, and it doesn't take as much spell damage or max magicka to kill people with the new sustain restrictions. That's my experience, at least.

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

It's not about being BIS in dmg, mathematically it just isn't. What it does, at least for sorc, is allow you to run witchmothers while staying at 12.5k stam.

I personally only run it in combo with amberplasm; you end up with 1.3k stam regen. Then since both sets have a dmg bonus, you can run 2 regen/1 cost reduction enchant on jewelry, giving 3k mag regen. That works solidly as a BG setup, making it very hard for ppl to lock you down. The downside of course is you lose the undaunted set, but running 2 willpower swords & master resto back bar isn't that much of a loss compared to 2 max mag pieces.

There's other builds that fit DW and have diff strengths, it's all just about using diff builds in diff situations with these sustain nerfs.

It is about being BiS for damage after reaching functional levels of sustain and max stamina with which you're comfortable. So why is running Witchmother's so key? Why not run tristat food and get higher max stats and damage if you can get sufficient sustain from armor sets?

You're running Shackle to get one more line of stam regen? Are you using Witchmother's or tristat food with those sustain glyphs? That's soooo much damage traded for sustain from glyphs. What are your tooltip values and stats running that setup compared to Magnus or Seducer with tristat food, one stam regen glyph, and two damage glyphs?

I use it purely for BGs, so I'm taking no CP, cost poisons everywhere, and all the game modes into consideration. With the regen, I can just pop an immove speed pot and zoom zoom with the relic or between capture flags without putting myself at much risk.

On my DW builds I simply aim for 1986 unbuffed spell dmg, then either stack regen or max mag depending on what the build is. With this build in witchmothers, I'm still at something like 43.5k Max mag, so dmg is fine. You can absolutely just use tristat food with it as well, but that defeats the entire purpose of the build.

The whole point is to be able to stay super spammy, dodge roll whenever I want, ect. In the inevitability that I'm stacked with cost increase poisons, I don't suddenly hit a wall. If I was going to go tristat food on this, I would just as well switch back to my standard Seducers/Spinners no CP build for 4K more pen and the ability to use an undaunted set. The difference is the sustain takes more finesse.

Obviously this just goes for DW, as a destro build its easier to sustain fine with lower regen.

FYI, you can't use Magnus on a sorc: the proc sound for the Magnus bonus is the same as a frag proc sound, or at least it was last time I checked way back. I couldn't stand it.

Oh so the point is excessive sustain to avoid dying, not combat itself. I guess that makes sense for the objective game modes...but I'm talking about builds designed to be up in the fight against proper groups focusing down the sorc.

Inb4 Endless Fury memes?

FYI it's better to have cost reduction like Seducer's when afflicted with cost increase poisons and Siphoner, rather than raw regen, there's a much better set that's actually op as hell for sustaining in the objective based game modes than Shackle, and Magnus has no sound when it procs. You're hearing something from an addon.

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm going to try Shackle/Impreg/Valkyn on my Magicka DK once I get around to actually gathering skyshards on him.

How will you sustain? Going Desert Rose instead leaves you able to run tristat food and damage glyphs and still sustain well.

NightbladeMechanics · June 2017

Ishammael wrote: »

The bottom line is that tri food is the most efficient set of stat bonuses in the game. Running witch mother or the stam equivalent costs you a set bonus of health and mana, each. And you only get 320 regen. It ends up being not worth it because there are so many good sustain sets which are worth equivalent or more regen: amber, Seducer, Magnus, lich, rose, etc.

Basically, the way to think about shackle is to rearrange the set bonuses:
Mana
Mana regen
Spell dmg
2k stam, stam regen, mana

Shackle one of the most efficient sets in terms of raw stats. Problem is, the extra stam doesn't help you after a certain amount (on a magicka build). Better to get more dmg or defense or sustain.

This is exactly why I'm confused. Stam builds don't need the extra max magicka, so Shackle becomes essentially a magicka set.

Magicka builds get better damage and sustain from other sets, so Shackle's purpose is the max stamina.

However, tristat food places you above the necessary stam level for magicka builds and is fantastically efficient.

People are viewing running Witchmother's as a luxury which Shackle enables for them, when in reality it's bistat or tristat food that are mathematically worth building around. Witchmother's is an undesirable compromise that you make when you can't build sufficient sustain to run max stat food and still deal damage.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2017

So what is BiS for Magblade now ? It doesn't matter if you tell me , I will find a way to die with it on ...

CavalryPK · June 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

So what is BiS for Magblade now ? It doesn't matter if you tell me , I will find a way to die with it on ...

@Rohamad_Ali

According to senpai,

Bezt set ups are Trans/Riposte/Lich + Maiden/Necro + Undaunted.

NightbladeMechanics · June 2017

CavalryPK wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

So what is BiS for Magblade now ? It doesn't matter if you tell me , I will find a way to die with it on ...

@Rohamad_Ali

According to senpai,

Bezt set ups are Trans/Riposte/Lich + Maiden/Necro + Undaunted.

Spinner is also a good front bar, and for the record, Malubeth has been feeling really nice tonight with Trans + Riposte. The heals were quite strong with all that mitigation behind them.

I'm currently gathering Impreg pieces to try Impreg + Sanctuary + 1 Kena. I'm going to make the most obnoxious heal over time juggernaut mageblade I possibly can. lol

Joy_Division · June 2017

It's not for damage. But I prefer it on mag sorc for drawn out BG combat that do not have CP.

I initially ran amber + tri stat food and while my damage was strong, what invariably happened was after getting a flurry of kills, the other team would come in and I ran out of resources.

The Witchmother Brew food is more efficient in getting regen than adding cost reduction/regen glyphs.

So I switched to Shacklebreaker + Amber + Witchmother. I do not hit as hard, but on a sorc, it's not necessary to super spec out for damage because there is such a thing as overkill and I think having a higher magicka pool when the other team shows up is worth it.

I do not like having less than 14K stamina, but it's doable with 1.2k regen.

Sometimes what's better on paper doesn't always work out in actual practice.

I have had better success with the Shackle + Witchmother than Amber + Tri-stat. But I'd only use that setup for Battlegrounds.

HoloYoitsu · June 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Oh so the point is excessive sustain to avoid dying, not combat itself. I guess that makes sense for the objective game modes...but I'm talking about builds designed to be up in the fight against proper groups focusing down the sorc.

Inb4 Endless Fury memes?

FYI it's better to have cost reduction like Seducer's when afflicted with cost increase poisons and Siphoner, rather than raw regen, there's a much better set that's actually op as hell for sustaining in the objective based game modes than Shackle, and Magnus has no sound when it procs. You're hearing something from an addon.

Mh, good to hear about the Magnus sound fx then.

As far as being "up in the fight" the whole idea is something's wrong if I'm putting myself in that situation, if you're referring to being in melee range all the time. Our grp setups pretty much compel me to stay to the sides, cuz like half the time we don't have healers - leaving me to spam wards and resto ults (another reason for going high regen).

NightbladeMechanics · June 2017

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Oh so the point is excessive sustain to avoid dying, not combat itself. I guess that makes sense for the objective game modes...but I'm talking about builds designed to be up in the fight against proper groups focusing down the sorc.

Inb4 Endless Fury memes?

FYI it's better to have cost reduction like Seducer's when afflicted with cost increase poisons and Siphoner, rather than raw regen, there's a much better set that's actually op as hell for sustaining in the objective based game modes than Shackle, and Magnus has no sound when it procs. You're hearing something from an addon.

Mh, good to hear about the Magnus sound fx then.

As far as being "up in the fight" the whole idea is something's wrong if I'm putting myself in that situation, if you're referring to being in melee range all the time. Our grp setups pretty much compel me to stay to the sides, cuz like half the time we don't have healers - leaving me to spam wards and resto ults (another reason for going high regen).

The default sound effect on Magnus is obscured by a mudcrap breathing. It's been that way since at least mid 1.6 when I started using the set. I think you're hearing an addon.

If a proper group chooses to focus you, then you will be the center of the fight whether you like it or not. Snares and gap closers will ensure that. I see the value of extra stam regen to roll dodge all of that aggro. That's useful, but why not just use Seducer or Magnus + Amber with tristat, Serpent, and/or a stam regen glyph or two?

You guys have commented here that you don't mind giving up damage for stam sustain to play more defensively in BGs, but you don't need to give up that damage to have 1200-1300 stam regen. Heck, I've run around with as much as 1450 stam regen on my sorc at times over the last three patches, and those builds all had better max stats and damage than the Shackle + Witchmother's builds I've seen this week.

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's not for damage. But I prefer it on mag sorc for drawn out BG combat that do not have CP.

I initially ran amber + tri stat food and while my damage was strong, what invariably happened was after getting a flurry of kills, the other team would come in and I ran out of resources.

The Witchmother Brew food is more efficient in getting regen than adding cost reduction/regen glyphs.

So I switched to Shacklebreaker + Amber + Witchmother. I do not hit as hard, but on a sorc, it's not necessary to super spec out for damage because there is such a thing as overkill and I think having a higher magicka pool when the other team shows up is worth it.

I do not like having less than 14K stamina, but it's doable with 1.2k regen.

Sometimes what's better on paper doesn't always work out in actual practice.

I have had better success with the Shackle + Witchmother than Amber + Tri-stat. But I'd only use that setup for Battlegrounds.

Was your initial build Amber + Willpower + Undaunted with tristat food? Have you tried Seducer or Magnus with Amber to compare Shackle to? That's what we're discussing.