Why Two-Handed melee weapons are Forgotten and ignored?

starkerealm · May 2017

Hallothiel wrote: »

Gods post like these show me I know so little about playing this game well!

I have 2 x 2h templars. Can't remember my reasons for doing so but hey, having fun. Both are magicka based but use the 2H / stamina to give the magic a chance to recover. And it's fun to whack things hard with a big sword.

Yeah, no I don't do end game dungeons. But do enough damage to get through most things.

@Hallothiel, the logic behind stacking one resource is that your abilities scale their damage (and healing) to the pool you cast them from. So a character with 30k max stamina will do more damage with a stamina ability than a character with 20k. Thing is, it's not going to be a huge difference. Your weapon and spell damage stats contribute far more to your overall damage.

When people are frowning on hybrid builds, this is a large part of why. They will do less damage, even with a set like Pelinal. That said, hybrid builds tend to be more tanky. So, if it works for you, have fun.

hmsdragonfly · May 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

2h is a must for stam builds in pvp.

You can easily do 95%+ of pve including vet trials if you build right using 2h dps.

2h is fine?

You should take advice when more experienced and knowledgeable players like actually take time to write you a detailed and large paragraph of information and actually answers your question.

I'd actually go so far as to say that 2h can be very good for some PvE stam builds. Especially for StamBlades. But, I've only got three years of experience with a 2h StamBlade, so what do I know?

I find that Stamplars synergize very well with 2H weapons (2H Axes to be specific), now that they get buffed for pvE.

starkerealm · May 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

2h is a must for stam builds in pvp.

You can easily do 95%+ of pve including vet trials if you build right using 2h dps.

2h is fine?

You should take advice when more experienced and knowledgeable players like actually take time to write you a detailed and large paragraph of information and actually answers your question.

I'd actually go so far as to say that 2h can be very good for some PvE stam builds. Especially for StamBlades. But, I've only got three years of experience with a 2h StamBlade, so what do I know?

I find that Stamplars synergize very well with 2H weapons (2H Axes to be specific), now that they get buffed for pvE.

I'll need to try that. If I'm brutally honest, I've never managed to get a Templar to 50. It's the only class (well, now also the Warden) that I haven't run to cap. I have two around 30 or 31, and a 15, but that's it.

I'll need to try a 2h axe on one at some point.

Hallothiel · May 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Gods post like these show me I know so little about playing this game well!

I have 2 x 2h templars. Can't remember my reasons for doing so but hey, having fun. Both are magicka based but use the 2H / stamina to give the magic a chance to recover. And it's fun to whack things hard with a big sword.

Yeah, no I don't do end game dungeons. But do enough damage to get through most things.

@Hallothiel, the logic behind stacking one resource is that your abilities scale their damage (and healing) to the pool you cast them from. So a character with 30k max stamina will do more damage with a stamina ability than a character with 20k. Thing is, it's not going to be a huge difference. Your weapon and spell damage stats contribute far more to your overall damage.

When people are frowning on hybrid builds, this is a large part of why. They will do less damage, even with a set like Pelinal. That said, hybrid builds tend to be more tanky. So, if it works for you, have fun.

Come from a solo rpg background where you didn't really have to choose so it's taken me a while to get used to just stacking in one thing and use glyphs/sets to up the others, if at all. With the 2h just have a bit of stamina to alternate. Does make it more fun - and challenging sometimes - never going to be leaderboard material but can live with that.

(And whacking things with a big sword is such fun!)

starkerealm · May 2017

Hallothiel wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Gods post like these show me I know so little about playing this game well!

I have 2 x 2h templars. Can't remember my reasons for doing so but hey, having fun. Both are magicka based but use the 2H / stamina to give the magic a chance to recover. And it's fun to whack things hard with a big sword.

Yeah, no I don't do end game dungeons. But do enough damage to get through most things.

@Hallothiel, the logic behind stacking one resource is that your abilities scale their damage (and healing) to the pool you cast them from. So a character with 30k max stamina will do more damage with a stamina ability than a character with 20k. Thing is, it's not going to be a huge difference. Your weapon and spell damage stats contribute far more to your overall damage.

When people are frowning on hybrid builds, this is a large part of why. They will do less damage, even with a set like Pelinal. That said, hybrid builds tend to be more tanky. So, if it works for you, have fun.

Come from a solo rpg background where you didn't really have to choose so it's taken me a while to get used to just stacking in one thing and use glyphs/sets to up the others, if at all. With the 2h just have a bit of stamina to alternate. Does make it more fun - and challenging sometimes - never going to be leaderboard material but can live with that.

(And whacking things with a big sword is such fun!)

In fairness, this is a thing with most single player RPGs as well. Usually the benefits of specializing are more clearly articulated. For example, Skyrim gating all those stars up behind running a skill up. The way ESO does things is, uniquely, ESO. It's not a difference between MMOs and the games you're used to, just a function of this being a different game.

And, yeah, I like really like the utility of a 2h. It's a solid weapon pick. If you enjoy them, us 'em.

Kali_Despoine · May 2017

Reason 1: Dual wield weapons grant you a second 5 piece bonus
Reason 2: Two Handed weapons will not grant you a second 5 piece bonus

Any more questions?

Bobby_V_Rockit · July 2017

I changed to 2H stam sorc, had a sharpened VO greatsword so figured I'd give it a go. Much more fun to play than the cut n paste dw/bow stam build

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · July 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

2h is a must for stam builds in pvp.

You can easily do 95%+ of pve including vet trials if you build right using 2h dps.

2h is fine?

You should take advice when more experienced and knowledgeable players like actually take time to write you a detailed and large paragraph of information and actually answers your question.

I'd actually go so far as to say that 2h can be very good for some PvE stam builds. Especially for StamBlades. But, I've only got three years of experience with a 2h StamBlade, so what do I know?

I find that Stamplars synergize very well with 2H weapons (2H Axes to be specific), now that they get buffed for pvE.

Thing is, that this is just false, out of all the classes, stamplars are the worst with a two hander. the class gets a crit hit damage bonus, so you want more crit chance, so you want dual daggers. The classes that get the most out of two-hander are dks and sorcs, the damage increase to heavy attacks from molten weapons and bound armorments synergize perfectly with the cleave damage bonus from the two hander and then those classes can make the most of the passive follow up.

Even if that wasnt the fact of the case, two handed axes would still be bad on stamplar too, as jabs does not proc the bleed. Stamplars work best with damage orver times, like almost all of dual wield tree, not the burst that two-hander is fantastic for.

GeorgeBlack · July 2017

People no longer care for the fantasy concept. They just care to win.
1)They don't play with the weapon and armor they like. They copy metas.
2)They don't practice combat. They just crunch numbers, or read such researchers by others.
3)They don't stick to their playstyle through ups and downs.
4)They prefer passive damage (procs) and passive damage mitigation (Shuffle) no matter their class.
5)They embrace a flawed combat system that makes animations useless, as long as they can beat those that don't practice YET animation cancelling.
6)They would abandon their playstyle for one that works better with animation cancelling.
This is the feedback we give ZOS.

They won't make changes to promote your agile assassin, or the raging berserk warrior.
Because people want the 1shooter and the 1vXer

Feanor · July 2017

If you go for 2H you choose survivability over raw DPS. Rally is a very good skill that justifies 2H on its own.

Huyen · July 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

Oh man.... Well to clear some misconceptions you have:

• All classes can fulfill any role. All classes can use any weapons. Also, every class has a Stamina or Magicka variant, based on whichever Max Resource+Damage you invest into as well as skill usage.

For example, if you are a Nightblade who spams Cloak and attacks with Strife and Cripple, while using a Restoration Staff and Inferno Staff whilst stacking your stats into Maximum Magicka and Spell Damage, you are a "Magicka Nightblade".
If you are a Templar who spams Biting Jabs and Resolving Vigor while running with a Greatsword and Bow, as well as stacking your stats into Maximum Stamima and Weapon Damage, you are a "Stamina Templar".

• As of the Morrowind patch, Two Handed Weapons are almost the same as Dual Wield, meaning you can use a Two Handed Weapon and still put out good DPS in PvE. Also, Two Handed is a very powerful skill line with many tools, and sees widespread use in PvP.

• If you want to create a Nordic "Barbarian" or "Beserker" with a Greatsword, I recommend choosing the Dragonknight class. It fits the theme well, similar to a Nightblade fitting the "Assassin" theme well.

Should you want to play as close as possible to a Nordic Barbarian-esque character, use Two Handed skills on the Dragonknight class as a Nord Stamina DK. Also fitting such a limited thematical playstyle will never be effective for PvE DPS in Vet content. Don't expect it to be since you'll purposely avoid using most of your powerful class skills.

Wasn't totally sure what you wanted tbh...... Hope that helped!

Not entirely true. If you look at the Magblade (Magicka Nightblade) they can have a full bar of magicka class-skills going, while if you are a Stamblade (Stamina Nightblade) You will only use 2 class-skills in a meta-build while the 3 others are pure weaponskills. There are far more magicka-skills in-game then stamina-skills, and that one of the problems. More stamina-skills, with added functionality to two-handed weapons will let me consider using one on my warden. Dual-wield is nice, but it doesnt really fit my character, but two-handed is just to crap in pve to even be taken into consideration.

Verticom · October 2017

Im late.... i love 2h, first build i made since starting and still run it today in vets with no one complaining yet, actually have gotten compliments. If a 2h only build is what youre looking for most all applications outside of trials and PvP to my knowledge, this is what i do, massive survival and damage for whats given.
I run a noobstamblade khajiit.
Gear:
5pc spriggans thorns
5pc sword singers (sharpened Gsword main, backbar infused, both weapon dmg glyphs)
1pc mighty chudans shoulder
All medium divines
Warrior mundus stone
64 in stam attribute
1 hp enchant on helm, rest stam
2 weapon dmg enchants on jewelry, last stam regen.
Bar 1:
Critical rush
Dizzying swing
Brawler
Refreshing Vigor
Reverse Slice
Bar 2:
Rally
Leeching Strikes
Blurring speed (Blur morph giving expedition for 3secs, only magicka dump to get to next mob while regaining stam)
Blank (i have retreating maneuver for mount travel).
Razor Caltrops

Hope this helps. No one and including myself recommends it, but i have a *** blast using this, great burst potential, big drawback being only 50% crit chance outright with minor savagery from nightblade skill passive, i recommend a stam pot or a crit chance pot when running it. Enjoy getting to the next pack and tanking X mobs forever in vets or the like. Brawler/lightheavy weave wont save you on a boss though.
Kudos!

generalmyrick · October 2017

Chameleonas wrote: »

Hi everyone, I just wanted to share by thoughts about Two-handed weapons in ESO. First time I saw ESO trailer where Assassin is fighting a Nordic Barbarian was coolest thing ever. Even the idea of agily focused assassin fighting a raging berserker was great, speed and agility Vs strenght and brutal force of Two-handed Axe.

But my problem about this is that we have a Nightblade in game who focuses in assassin like features. and all what all history about Two-handed weapons get is dingle weapon tree with abilities who was no synergy and are lack luster, deals even lover damage them most other skills in the game and probably has only ability who need to be cast on melee weapon and still does almost no damage. and not a single class has any abilities who will come with a two-handed weapons or only can make in to a single build who still falls off behind at most other builds. And is seen as useless dps build for any content for end game for is underperformance in todays patches. Yes morrowind made a small improvment on a passive skills, but that small change dont make to much of a difference.

I still dont undrstand why the idea of mighty barbarian in game is so abandoned thing. And every single class if forced to play magica with Staffs or stamina with dual-weild and bow. Even health stat of its own if just to reach stupid hp cap. Even tanks dont spend points in health after can.

And why there is not even a idea to make class abilities to make usage of two-handed weapons.

Because we have Nightblade who is only assassin class that is focused in light weapons and bow and even has class skills for those weapons.
We have Templar who is Fixed class abilities to the Healing and doing damage with a magica based abilities, and u cant realy use with stamina weapons if you want to be usefull.
Sorc Who ofc is magica based class and has all skills fot the staffs and magica summoning based.
And there is dragonknight who u should think fits perfectly with the fantasy of elemental weapding warior with melee weapons, but then you get in to the skills and are surpriced that all skills DK gets is also magica based even if they are point blank range or a distance ones. And rest of skills fits only the Tank role cause rest of the abilities are damage mitigations and buffs.
And lastly we get introduced to a Warded who is kinda jsut a sorc and templar hybrid, that again is focused on healing, summoning spells and frost magic.

So in my mind I dont understand why make all classes the same is better idead them make them feel different and interesting in there own way? why there is none who wants to make A warrior class who even can sacrifice hit health for mighty blows, who could get though mass of foes. And even be able to go for magica based elemental charged abilities like my first thoughts about Dragonknight was before I get to play it.

I even think that many players will agree with me about some things that there is alot to explere in Two-handed weapons fantasy wise. That two-handed weapons and even 1 handed weapon and shield can be used offencively as nordic and other cultures widely used in history.

So thanks for the time, and I hope that in time there will be any development in this direction cause other wise whats the purpose of those weapons are at all.

You know this the ESO forums right?

Bladerunner1 · October 2017

2H on a Stamblade? Been there, done that, loved it since many months ago.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/347682/stamina-cleave-focus-dps-build-nightblade

BUT the forceful passive hits like a wet noodle now. I'm going back to Dual Wield for PVE unless I really wanna just Leroy Jenkins my way through crowds of dungeon mobs with Brawler.

Thannazzar · October 2017

Only issue I have with 2handed is that it prevents 2 x five piece set bonuses if you rock a monster set. Would love to see bows/staves/2handers counting as 2 pieces for set bonuses.

Riejael · October 2017

A wise developer once said a statement that made a bit of sense. It was in regards to ground units targeting and being targeted by airborne units in a mod for Crysis. In those forums those who were pro-air were complaining about how fragile they were to ground, and ground was complaining about how much damage air could do to them in a pass.

The developer said something along the lines of, "If both sides are complaining, then we've achieved balance."

Anyway, to the subject at hand. I see people sayin that 2h is great in PVP and freely admit it isn't great in PVE. That wouldn't be an issue, but imagine if an entire class was that way?

Suffice to say, weapons are a class into themselves. They have an ultimate, they have passives, and they have actives. The only difference is you can choose a different weapon if you need to. But I could argue you can roll a new character too. But I'm not going to say that classes should act like weapons.

I think we can agree that weapons ought to be more important. 2h being good in PVP is a poor argument.

Here's some issues and some solutions to those issues:

1. 2 monster, 5 set, and 5 set is not doable for those using two handers. This.. is a problem. I play a healer and with a resto staff, I'm missing out on set bonuses. I could dual wield or sword and board, but missing out on Healing Springs and Rapid Restoration isn't worth it on a non-templar. Not 100% sure how good the new heal for NB is, but Sorc/DK haven't gotten anything new.

Solution is to increase the set bonuses by 30-50% of any set the 2H is apart of. You won't be getting as many set bonuses as dual wield, but the ones you do get will be amplified. I think this would change up some of the meta with 2h across the board. Take note that it doesn't increase all set bonuses, just the one the weapon is apart of. Won't affect Arena weapons and builds that use those. So if a set bonus says +168 weapon damage, its increased to 252 (or 218 if 50% is too much).

This could overtune some builds, specifically magicka based ones (haven't heard many complaints about staffs being weak in PVE). I wouldn't be opposed to dual wield seeing a slight buff to its passive to weapon damage based on offhand weapon.

2. Animations are too long. Animation canceling is a weird 'mechanic'. Its a glitch that couldn't be fixed in a way that would actually help the game.I suspect this is due to dodge rolling, blocking must take priority so people aren't locked in and die to certain NPC attacks.

The solution here is similar to how Daybreak tackled it with DC Universe Online. They had the same issue, how to 'fix' AC so it isn't required to do best DPS and to allow blocking and dodging? In that game, weapon attacks are far more complex than ESO's. They use a series of left and right clicks, taps and holds for each to execute combos. And the moment you get the last mouse press in, you may use an ability, block, or dodge to cancel the animation of the combo, but the effect goes off. What they did to fix this is if you cut the animation halfway, you do half the combo's damage. If you cut it three quarters of the way through, you do 75%. If you cut it 89% of the way, you do 89%. This allows players to cut animations when they need to, without it being required to maximize dps.

LordSemaj · December 2017

Actually if you just want set bonuses, other MMOs have already solved the single slot two-hander and dual slot one handers problem. The answer is to make the two-hander count as double the bonus or have twice as many slots for gems/upgrades.

All they would need to do is make two-handed weapons count as equipping two pieces of the set they are from. Now you can have your two 5-piece set bonuses as usual.

TheUndeadAmulet · December 2017

You can play with anything as anyone in this game. You just won't be top tier.

Slick_007 · December 2017

Vonbone wrote: »

The two handed weapon seems to be more of a PvP weapon. I'm guessing because of the good single target damage as well as the knockdown effect. I PvP mostly and I have a majority of my characters using a 2hd weapon. Pve it seems about useless from what I hear.

i found it sucked in pvp. but ive been using it for my dk in pve for ages and like it.

Bobby_V_Rockit · December 2017

I like it in PVE, its more fun that DW I personally find

D0PAMINE · December 2017

Stamblades are great with 2H. Rally + Merciless (or whatever the stam version is) is great. 2H + some type of damage mitigation works for pve.

Vaoh wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Chameleonas wrote: »

Please dont talk about PVP and about misconseptions. I know enough about game to tell what I'm telling. And pvp and pve should be totaly different things as they are. and balance for both modes should be separate cause not every player is playing PVP and not everyone likes PVE.

Thanks for those who offering their thoughts about Two-handers. ANd yeah as I could play as I want it most of the time gets all about how its effective as a whole. And that for example most and almost all dk skills are Magica and melee awepons dmg scales from stamina.

Truth be told, you may know enough about the game, but Vaoh is a very knowledgeable player. Even the best player in this game will learn something from another fellow player. So, why don't you simply listen to his points, instead of telling him "pls stop teaching me bro I know my stuffs"?

Besides, his points are totally correct:
1) Two-Handed is totally viable in the game right not, there's no huge gap between DW and 2H anymore, for both PvP and PvE. It has been tested by the very top-tier theorycrafters, so whatever you have heard about "Two-Handed is underperforming compared to Dual Wield", it is outdated and isn't true in this patch aynmore.
2)
Magicka Dragonknight: https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-dragonknight-build-pve/
Stamina Dragonknight: https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-build-pve/
Magicka Nightblade: https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-nightblade-build-pve/
Stamina Nightblade: https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-nightblade-build-for-pve/
Magicka Sorcerer: https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-sorcerer-build-pve/
Stamina Sorcerer: https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-sorcerer-build-pve/
Magicka Templar: https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-templar-build-pve/
Stamina Templar: https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-templar-build-pve/

Now, do you see the difference between Magicka and Stamina? Whichever class you choose, you can go either Magicka and Stamina, and both are viable.

Ty, but it looks like I just wasted my time writing my post to help this person. Most players don't like hearing that something they have told themselves for awhile and affirmed by other like-minded players is no longer true in a recent patch. Idk why I bothered.

I enjoy your posts actually, you explain things very well and make it easy to understand.