PoL, Does it need a nerf?

Ohhgrizyyy · May 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Every time a Templar sets up their backlash burs combot, the enemy has 6 seconds to figure out how to react to it. Compared to classes that can fire off their burst combo instant at will and even from stealth, PoL is rather unimpressive.

Agree. I think it is why it is rare there is a complaint thread on it.

Maybe it's cause no one helps? Instead of saying using an expensive skill or doing something to completely change my build....How can I counter or help myself against Stamplars? Especially when it's a stamplar that sits in their little shell a.k.a ritual and rune. Use troll king and viper....

BohnT · May 2017

Damn ppl are actually defending this skill? It is a completely stupid designed skill. In duels it is very strong but still fine but for everything thing else it is so damn broken like beam and mage's wrath it's a pure zerg surfer skill with 0 skill needed to get some easy kills.

If you 1vX and someone starts casting PotL you are dead with a 99% chance because every damage adds up to it not only the damage of the caster oh nonono all damage the caster is a stupid heal bot or a blazeplar that simply presses 1 button and lets the zerg finish you off.

Change it that only the damage dealt by the caster counts towards PotL damage and the skill is fine. But in its current state it punishes everyone who is no magplar or runs in a 30+ zerg.
And no cleanse is no counter. One of the most expensive skills that no stam class can sustain and most mag classes have a hard time to sustain doesn't help in anyway + it can easily be recasted by the templar and be sure that you run out of resources first.

Lord-Otto · May 2017

timidobserver wrote: »

Every time a Templar sets up their backlash burs combot, the enemy has 6 seconds to figure out how to react to it. Compared to classes that can fire off their burst combo instant at will and even from stealth, PoL is rather unimpressive.

Same for Sorcs' 4-seconds-burst. Yet, everyone wants them nerfed. Well, only Nightblades, really. Guess why.
(^_-)

DarkAedin · May 2017

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

I'm talking with my buddy and he recently made a stamplar and says PoL isn't OP and can be easily countered. I tend to disagree, I could be wrong but I really don't think so. So here's questions I have cause I'm sure someone will know.

Firstly can PoL be cleansed? If so the only counters that way would be run purge, be a templar or use wyrds tree.

Secondly, It says it does physical dmg. So does that mean it can be mitigated? I personally though it couldn't be cause of it specifically saying it copies the damage you take, So I assume yea you can mitigate the dmg before it goes off but the actual dmg from PoL can't be mitigated.

If anyone can answer these or test these out it would be greatly appreciated. Or let me know tips on how to counter.

My last statement on this is, If can't be mitigated, Can't be dodged or blocked. It seems wayy too strong. It needs some kind of fix or nerf.

Jesus
Potl is fine the way it is. Dont nerf stamplars even more pls.

Cleanse it. Or cc the templar. Its not an i win button that does tons of dmg.. he has to fill the dmg pool or hes just hitting u for its base initial dmg - 1kish.

Eso is a rock / paper / scissor pvp, its going to be strong vs some things and weak vs others

Ohhgrizyyy · May 2017

Stamplar is I'd say currently the 2nd strongest stam class in game..It will be fine. It's not hard to fill the damage gap needed when using viper and several dots between rending slashes and axe bleeds

Ohhgrizyyy · May 2017

DarkAedin wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

I'm talking with my buddy and he recently made a stamplar and says PoL isn't OP and can be easily countered. I tend to disagree, I could be wrong but I really don't think so. So here's questions I have cause I'm sure someone will know.

Firstly can PoL be cleansed? If so the only counters that way would be run purge, be a templar or use wyrds tree.

Secondly, It says it does physical dmg. So does that mean it can be mitigated? I personally though it couldn't be cause of it specifically saying it copies the damage you take, So I assume yea you can mitigate the dmg before it goes off but the actual dmg from PoL can't be mitigated.

If anyone can answer these or test these out it would be greatly appreciated. Or let me know tips on how to counter.

My last statement on this is, If can't be mitigated, Can't be dodged or blocked. It seems wayy too strong. It needs some kind of fix or nerf.

Jesus
Potl is fine the way it is. Dont nerf stamplars even more pls.

Cleanse it. Or cc the templar. Its not an i win button that does tons of dmg.. he has to fill the dmg pool or hes just hitting u for its base initial dmg - 1kish.

Eso is a rock / paper / scissor pvp, its going to be strong vs some things and weak vs others

Read above comment.

And to add to what I already said when you see tooltips for 4k bleeds, 2-3k jabs and a 2-3k viper proc...It will be filled and will do serious dmg. I shouldn't be forced to run a specific class to counter 1 single ability. Especially if the ability can not be avoided in some way.

GreenSoup2HoT · May 2017

Im more upset about the fact that i cant cloak against hurricane and ritual of retribution. 2 classes basically straight up negate my own means to heal and take pressure off myself with 1 active ability. Makes duelling stam sorcs or any templar with Ritual of Retribution a nightmare for me.

Ohhgrizyyy · May 2017

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Im more upset about the fact that i cant cloak against hurricane and ritual of retribution. 2 classes basically straight up negate my own means to heal and take pressure off myself with 1 active ability. Makes duelling stam sorcs or any templar with Ritual of Retribution a nightmare for me.

I can deal with stam sorcs, Templars hell no

TequilaFire · May 2017

Cry me a river.
Every time Templar gets anything that works all the OP sorcs come in and complain about it.
If they removed Templar from the game these threads would still show up about Templars.
What a flock of wah-wahs.

Ohhgrizyyy · May 2017

TequilaFire wrote: »

Cry me a river.
Every time Templar gets anything that works all the OP sorcs come in and complain about it.
If they removed Templar from the game these threads would still show up about Templars.
What a flock of wah-wahs.

I actually mained a magsorc but got bored if how easy and *** the toon was so just respeced him to PvE so I could have character to easily run VMA

ofSunhold · May 2017

Well, it's a Templar skill, and it actually does damage. So yes, obviously it should be nerfed.

Templars should stand still (check!) do negligible damage, not heal or defend themselves or anyone else, and die. Again: obviously.

Shadow_Viper_vX · May 2017

PoL does not need a nerf

It is fine as is

No change needed

If anyone is having a problem they should spend some time Learning to Play so that they'll beable to Adapt and Overcome

Ohhgrizyyy · May 2017

ofSunhold wrote: »

Well, it's a Templar skill, and it actually does damage. So yes, obviously it should be nerfed.

Templars should stand still (check!) do negligible damage, not heal or defend themselves or anyone else, and die. Again: obviously.

I'm fine with honestly everything else on a templar, I just hate PoL...And I think BoL needed some kind of nerf but the major mending was possibly enough, I disagree with how they actually changed BoL, I disagree with the shard change and the repentance change..I'd be happy with them having minor mending and some kind of nerf/change to PoL...Although I do find Reactive, Transmutation and Pirate Skeleton Healbots to be extremely annoying -__-

Makato · May 2017

They should have called the skill "Lazer pointer" tho ...
Power of the pointer !

Ohhgrizyyy · May 2017

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

PoL does not need a nerf

It is fine as is

No change needed

If anyone is having a problem they should spend some time Learning to Play so that they'll beable to Adapt and Overcome

Again how about someone gives a tip on how to go against or beat it besides telling me to basically change exactly how my build works or to use a different class? I'm sorry I'm not a stam dk and just eat literally all the damage..Im a stamblade, Squishist stam build and worst healing of all stam builds so I would appreciate some time of actual help instead of telling me to "git gud"

BohnT · May 2017

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

PoL does not need a nerf

It is fine as is

No change needed

If anyone is having a problem they should spend some time Learning to Play so that they'll beable to Adapt and Overcome

Again how about someone gives a tip on how to go against or beat it besides telling me to basically change exactly how my build works or to use a different class? I'm sorry I'm not a stam dk and just eat literally all the damage..Im a stamblade, Squishist stam build and worst healing of all stam builds so I would appreciate some time of actual help instead of telling me to "git gud"

Don't hope that he gives you any reasonable answer he must posts the same thing over and over again and thinks everything is fine because zergsurfing helps to ignore your low skill level.

PotL is broken only way for a stamnb to do something about it is kill the templar, or cloak and run away and kill them afterwards, don't try to fight for more than 3 sec, go in, full dmg, try to cloak a way with shade and LoS. But be sure to die from it because a heal bot spams it all the time with 30k live and 12k bol, there is nothing you can do other than running away or respec to an other class

Ohhgrizyyy · May 2017

BohnT wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

PoL does not need a nerf

It is fine as is

No change needed

If anyone is having a problem they should spend some time Learning to Play so that they'll beable to Adapt and Overcome

Again how about someone gives a tip on how to go against or beat it besides telling me to basically change exactly how my build works or to use a different class? I'm sorry I'm not a stam dk and just eat literally all the damage..Im a stamblade, Squishist stam build and worst healing of all stam builds so I would appreciate some time of actual help instead of telling me to "git gud"

Don't hope that he gives you any reasonable answer he must posts the same thing over and over again and thinks everything is fine because zergsurfing helps to ignore your low skill level.

PotL is broken only way for a stamnb to do something about it is kill the templar, or cloak and run away and kill them afterwards, don't try to fight for more than 3 sec, go in, full dmg, try to cloak a way with shade and LoS. But be sure to die from it because a heal bot spams it all the time with 30k live and 12k bol, there is nothing you can do other than running away or respec to an other class

I mean I'm not a ganker, I run 5 Heavy and 2 medium so. But if that's my only option really then oh well

BohnT · May 2017

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

PoL does not need a nerf

It is fine as is

No change needed

If anyone is having a problem they should spend some time Learning to Play so that they'll beable to Adapt and Overcome

Again how about someone gives a tip on how to go against or beat it besides telling me to basically change exactly how my build works or to use a different class? I'm sorry I'm not a stam dk and just eat literally all the damage..Im a stamblade, Squishist stam build and worst healing of all stam builds so I would appreciate some time of actual help instead of telling me to "git gud"

Don't hope that he gives you any reasonable answer he must posts the same thing over and over again and thinks everything is fine because zergsurfing helps to ignore your low skill level.

PotL is broken only way for a stamnb to do something about it is kill the templar, or cloak and run away and kill them afterwards, don't try to fight for more than 3 sec, go in, full dmg, try to cloak a way with shade and LoS. But be sure to die from it because a heal bot spams it all the time with 30k live and 12k bol, there is nothing you can do other than running away or respec to an other class

I mean I'm not a ganker, I run 5 Heavy and 2 medium so. But if that's my only option really then oh well

If you play heavy you can survive longer but still if you are outnumbered and a templar casts PotL run and don't fight them for more than 3 seconds without Los or cloak.

KingJ · May 2017

I main a stamblade its pretty much a Learn 2 play issue.I'll rather have a POTL on me any day of the week instead of a curse which I have been hit for 8k.Never been hit by anything harder than 6-7k POTL.In the same time as a POTL I can be hit by 2 curses but hey Sorc are balanced Lawl.

OP if you want to know how to counter POTL on a stamblade its easy.Jabs is like WB stand into the stamplar or stay behind him and jabs won't hit you.Most time their burst to explode with the last tick.For example blood craze ,javelin, Jab,jab Dawn breaker The Key to surviving is stopping the Dawn breaker.If you can block or dodge the Javelin you can survive his burst easy. the damage they inflict on you which build up POTL can be dodge and mitigated to lower the final damage.

Only bad thing about POTL is others people can help reach the cap which make it a strong xv1 skill.Templars are the group support class and ZOs Nerf everything that allow them to play solo.

Stam blade a hard class to 1v1 on its the worst class for 1v1.You have to be better than your opponent to win at teams.Not your fault if you lose stamblades are just not built for 1v1 action.We need better healing but ZOs doesn't care.

Ohhgrizyyy · May 2017

KingJ wrote: »

I main a stamblade its pretty much a Learn 2 play issue.I'll rather have a POTL on me any day of the week instead of a curse which I have been hit for 8k.Never been hit by anything harder than 6-7k POTL.In the same time as a POTL I can be hit by 2 curses but hey Sorc are balanced Lawl.

OP if you want to know how to counter POTL on a stamblade its easy.Jabs is like WB stand into the stamplar or stay behind him and jabs won't hit you.Most time their burst to explode with the last tick.For example blood craze ,javelin, Jab,jab Dawn breaker The Key to surviving is stopping the Dawn breaker.If you can block or dodge the Javelin you can survive his burst easy. the damage they inflict on you which build up POTL can be dodge and mitigated to lower the final damage.

Only bad thing about POTL is others people can help reach the cap which make it a strong xv1 skill.Templars are the group support class and ZOs Nerf everything that allow them to play solo.

Stam blade a hard class to 1v1 on its the worst class for 1v1.You have to be better than your opponent to win at teams.Not your fault if you lose stamblades are just not built for 1v1 action.We need better healing but ZOs doesn't care.

My struggles mostly for 1v1s are pet sorcs and Stamplars, With the occasional 30k resist 2h/bow stam dk lol. Thanks for the actual advice. First person to actual give me real advice and info

idk · May 2017

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

PoL does not need a nerf

It is fine as is

No change needed

If anyone is having a problem they should spend some time Learning to Play so that they'll beable to Adapt and Overcome

Again how about someone gives a tip on how to go against or beat it besides telling me to basically change exactly how my build works or to use a different class? I'm sorry I'm not a stam dk and just eat literally all the damage..Im a stamblade, Squishist stam build and worst healing of all stam builds so I would appreciate some time of actual help instead of telling me to "git gud"

Have you noticed many player in Cyrodiil do not stand still. They move around and especially use the environment then slowly work their opponent down.

Others stand toe to toe with whoever they are fighting and, with the exception of players significantly more skilled than their opponent, they die fast.

Want to run solo and not have purge slotted then that is your counter.

Solariken · May 2017

I understand why some people think this skill is too strong. While it has plenty of counterplay available (cleanse/evade/mitigate), the final burst is a bit too high.

I wouldn't mind if they reduced the final maximum burst by ~20% and moved that 20% into a DOT over the 6s duration. Then the skill would be a more balanced utility tool - strike damage + DOT + timed burst. All unblockable and undodgeable.

idk · May 2017

Solariken wrote: »

I understand why some people think this skill is too strong. While it has plenty of counterplay available (cleanse/evade/mitigate), the final burst is a bit too high.

I wouldn't mind if they reduced the final maximum burst by ~20% and moved that 20% into a DOT over the 6s duration. Then the skill would be a more balanced utility tool - strike damage + DOT + timed burst. All unblockable and undodgeable.

I would agree if it was not possible to avoid the damage when it expires. There are two easy means to do so. Just because someone chooses not to use those means does not mean the skill needs to be nerfed.

timidobserver · May 2017

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

PoL does not need a nerf

It is fine as is

No change needed

If anyone is having a problem they should spend some time Learning to Play so that they'll beable to Adapt and Overcome

Again how about someone gives a tip on how to go against or beat it besides telling me to basically change exactly how my build works or to use a different class? I'm sorry I'm not a stam dk and just eat literally all the damage..Im a stamblade, Squishist stam build and worst healing of all stam builds so I would appreciate some time of actual help instead of telling me to "git gud"

The better nightblades that I run into are always running behind stuff or trying to get free to cloak and popping out to apply their cc burst combo. They are all very elusive, slippery, and deal good burst damage. If you are just yoloing into a Templar's face and spamming stuff at them to see who dies first, it's probably going to be you that does.

The less damage you take while backlash is on you, the less damage it will do to you. For a stamblade, cloaking, dodging, losing, and applying CC.

KingJ · May 2017

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

I main a stamblade its pretty much a Learn 2 play issue.I'll rather have a POTL on me any day of the week instead of a curse which I have been hit for 8k.Never been hit by anything harder than 6-7k POTL.In the same time as a POTL I can be hit by 2 curses but hey Sorc are balanced Lawl.

OP if you want to know how to counter POTL on a stamblade its easy.Jabs is like WB stand into the stamplar or stay behind him and jabs won't hit you.Most time their burst to explode with the last tick.For example blood craze ,javelin, Jab,jab Dawn breaker The Key to surviving is stopping the Dawn breaker.If you can block or dodge the Javelin you can survive his burst easy. the damage they inflict on you which build up POTL can be dodge and mitigated to lower the final damage.

Only bad thing about POTL is others people can help reach the cap which make it a strong xv1 skill.Templars are the group support class and ZOs Nerf everything that allow them to play solo.

Stam blade a hard class to 1v1 on its the worst class for 1v1.You have to be better than your opponent to win at teams.Not your fault if you lose stamblades are just not built for 1v1 action.We need better healing but ZOs doesn't care.

My struggles mostly for 1v1s are pet sorcs and Stamplars, With the occasional 30k resist 2h/bow stam dk lol. Thanks for the actual advice. First person to actual give me real advice and info

Sorc are NB biggest counter in a 1v1.Your burst come from crit and armor pen but doesn't matter against sorcs.Pet sorcs are the worst since you can't target the sorc at all and their shields are really strong throw in mine and not easy to kill.I never had a problem with a stamplar TBH I won't say I beat all of them but never really had issue.I came In third in a dueling tournament a few weeks ago. 2 Stamplar in the tourney pretty good beat both you have to avoid their damage and pray to RNGesus cloak work for a crit heal.
You can do something against they hard hitting burst skill unlike sorc can't block to reduce the damage can't dodge roll it nothing.

You have to keep moving and keep your heals ticking and you be fine.Open world not as easy but Xv1 never easy.Small group play is nice and not as bad most small groups have a Templar in a group you can synergize and purge it off of you.It can be deal with it but Its not easy. Personally I don't want them to do anything to this skill and if they change it then they need to change curse as well.Currently its fine only thing they need to fix it so if a person refresh the ability before it expire the built up damage isn't copied over. Fix that and the skill is prefect

Brutusmax1mus · May 2017

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Shhh... sweet summer child. Don't you know only sorcerer skills are overperforming?

At least a Crystal frag can be dodged/blocked, PoL can't...

[/quote]

There are counters, as stated, use them and l2p or deal with your choice. Blocking as is also an indirect counter as it copies damage taken before dealing it. So is avoiding any attack after they cast it. That means cloak, block, roll dodge, shuffle, any cc, any disorient, any silence, any PRESSURE that forced them to not deal damage.

It does not got any harder than a curse that takes 3.5 seconds and is unblockable and you can't dodge.

Morbash · May 2017

Yes, it's OP. It's unblockable and undodgeable. Literally zero counters outside of impractical means. Purge isn't a viable counter. It's too expensive, and once purged, it can be reapplied for very little cost. Only the caster's damage should contribute to its copied damage, not all damage. It's just another Xv1 ability that empowers the zerg, whom already has numbers to their advantage. They inherently have additional damage, healing and expendable resources. They do not need additional mechanics to favor them. You would think people who can code a game of this magnitude would be smart enough to realize this already. However, they continue to strip solo players of counters.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. There are far too many fire and forget abilities in this game. No thinking required at all.

Soul Assault - Just cast it and melt all the things. No need to think about it. In fact, you can combine this with backlash for stupidly effective results. Zero counter. Try to dodge and the soul assault gets you. Try to block and enjoy that zero stam while the zerg continues to build unmitigated PoTL damage.

Meteor - Another fire and forget ultimate. At least this one is blockable. However, it's still stupidly effective. Block is easily countered by fear and certain disorients. Block shouldn't be the only counter. It should be reflectable and cloakable. You should have to think before casting an ultimate. Timing should play a key role in the outcome of fights. Waiting and setting up your combos should be preferable to "Ok guys, see that nerd named Morbash? Lets light him up with 20 meteors. Watch him try to block us to death lololol!"

And the list of undodgeable and/or unblockable abilities continue: Dragon Leap, Power Lash, Eye of the Storm, Jabs, Dawnbreaker, etc etc.

Then on top of all of these zerg empowering mechanics ZOS decides it's a good idea to nerf sustain across the board. This would have been an excellent idea back around 1.5/1.6 when counters still existed.

KingYogi415 · May 2017

You forum people wont be happy until all of our skills are "pillow attack" and "long hug."

Stopp qq'ing about sorcs and templars and just L2P.

Cheers!

maxjapank · May 2017

Solariken wrote: »

I understand why some people think this skill is too strong. While it has plenty of counterplay available (cleanse/evade/mitigate), the final burst is a bit too high.

I wouldn't mind if they reduced the final maximum burst by ~20% and moved that 20% into a DOT over the 6s duration. Then the skill would be a more balanced utility tool - strike damage + DOT + timed burst. All unblockable and undodgeable.

Isn't there a damage cap on the final burst in pvp?

timidobserver wrote: »

The better nightblades that I run into are always running behind stuff or trying to get free to cloak and popping out to apply their cc burst combo. They are all very elusive, slippery, and deal good burst damage. If you are just yoloing into a Templar's face and spamming stuff at them to see who dies first, it's probably going to be you that does.

The less damage you take while backlash is on you, the less damage it will do to you. For a stamblade, cloaking, dodging, losing, and applying CC.

I'm convinced that he isn't really interested in hearing this. It's easier to complain.

ofSunhold · May 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

You forum people wont be happy until all of our skills are "pillow attack" and "long hug."

Stopp qq'ing about sorcs and templars and just L2P.

Cheers!

Pillow attacks OP